Greece will hold a referendum on bailout

Snakeblood

Biggins wrote: »

They are all thinking he's an idiot.
Personally I think he's playing a VERY clever game.

Now he's has put his opposition to the wall. Its "support me (keeping him in power thus) or go against me I'll pull the country possibly out of the Euro"

He's playing home political games.
He knows the next round of austerity measures will be tough on the country and he (understandably) doesn't want to take the entire blame.
He can (or wants) to be able to say to the people "Look, even the opposition parties has supported this latest measures - so don't blame me or my party alone!"

People would be silly to think he's losing the plot or stupid. I think he's far from it and playing a very clever political game - at home and with those outside his countries borders!

I'm inclined to agree. It was brinksmanship. I previously said something like they'd have to experience no bailout to see how much they wanted a bailout. Now the Greeks have had a taste that there isn't going to be a lifeline other than the current bailout, and if they don't agree, they're ****ed instantly, and forever. Dude is clever.

Snakeblood

SafeSurfer wrote: »

So Merkel and Sarkozy don't want the Greek people to vote on their future so the referendum gets cancelled.

Is this the same Sarkozy whose jets were bombing Libya recently, to "bring democracy to the people"?

Greece has elections to decide who leads the country. They've got democracy.

ejmaztec

SafeSurfer wrote: »

So Merkel and Sarkozy don't want the Greek people to vote on their future so the referendum gets cancelled.

Is this the same Sarkozy whose jets were bombing Libya recently, to "bring democracy to the people"?

If I was going to lend billions to someone, I'd expect them to play by my rules and not their's, especially a shower that's been pissing money away in the past and fiddling the books.:eek:

Biggins

ejmaztec wrote: »

If I was going to lend billions to someone, I'd expect them to play by my rules and not their's, especially a shower that's been pissing money away in the past and fiddling the books.:eek:

He is playing by their rules - but he's also playing by his own rules at home - to his own political advantage.
He has bugger all much to play with, yet with the 'cards' that he does play with, held over especially Germany and France, he's managed it looks like, to have forced as much as he could in cuts in some places to their debt, he's forcing his opposition even to support him, he's forcing the people to see that they REALLY have no choice, he's forcing the unions in his own country to 'like it or lump it' - He's playing a HELL of a game within rules and by god, he's getting away with it so far!

Jeasus... if ONLY our head of our government had half the brain and balls of this guy!
(We got a two faced, wimp poodle in comparison!)

Fair fcuks to him! Balls of steel he has!

mike65

Its good to see they might be taking my advice

http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/blog/2011/nov/03/greek-crisis-referendum-eurozone#block-23

Breaking news from Athens -- leaks from the cabinet meeting show that Papandreou has acknowledged that he can't hold the referendum, as exiting the eurozone would endanger Greece's future. Friday night's vote of confidence is still going ahead, though (it appears).

Instead, Papandreou's party could now negotiate with the New Democracy opposition over the creation of a Government of National Unity (which is also being dubbed a Salvation Government).

Helena Smith has the details:

Papandreou, while willing to form a government of national unity that would include the main opposition conservative party New Democracy, is still insisting on the confidence vote going ahead tomorrow night.

Greek TV stations are reporting that the beleaguered leader is about to dispatch some of his senior lieutenants to ND's party HQ to negotiate the creation of a unity government. Yiannis Michelakis, the party's spokesman, has just told Mega TV that if formed the administration would be "transitional" and would have one priority -- to ratify the debt deal that has triggered this latest phase of the crisis.

Johro

Biggins wrote: »

He is playing by their rules - but he's also playing by his own rules at home - to his own political advantage.
He has bugger all much to play with, yet with the 'cards' that he does play with, held over especially Germany and France, he's managed it looks like, to have forced as much as he could in cuts in some places to their debt, he's forcing his opposition even to support him, he's forcing the people to see that they REALLY have no choice, he's forcing the unions in his own country to 'like it or lump it' - He's playing a HELL of a game within rules and by god, he's getting away with it so far!

Jeasus... if ONLY our head of our government had half the brain and balls of this guy!
(We got a two faced, wimp poodle in comparison!)

Fair fcuks to him! Balls of steel he has!

It's also kind of ironic for our so-called democratic leaders to criticise him for calling a referendum in the birthplace of democracy.

Biggins

Johro wrote: »

It's also kind of ironic for our so-called democratic leaders to criticise him for calling a referendum in the birthplace of democracy.

Yep.
I suspect he knew the referendum idea was a no-go - but he's used it even now, to get more out of those that would have opposed him and/or stem any opposition (political) that might have otherwise just used any austerity measure opportunity to take potshots at him.
Now he's forced them alone into standing along side him, as well as others!

...As I said already, he's got balls of steel. He must be a hell of a chess player. He's certainly thinking of many moves ahead for sure!

SEPT 23 1989

Democracy is now dead in Europe

K-9

Biggins wrote: »

Yep.
I suspect he knew the referendum idea was a no-go - but he's used it even now, to get more out of those that would have opposed him and/or stem any opposition (political) that might have otherwise just used any austerity measure opportunity to take potshots at him.
Now he's forced them alone into standing along side him, as well as others!

...As I said already, he's got balls of steel. He must be a hell of a chess player. He's certainly thinking of many moves ahead for sure!

Well it's hard to know if went to plan like that!

I do think he has shown the hypocrisy of opposition politics as shown by FG here. When it comes down to it, they just toe the line and take the Euros anyway.

It would be interesting to hear what the Greek people think of him! I suspect if Kenny did something similar here it wouldn't be going down well at all.

Biggins

K-9 wrote: »

Well it's hard to know if went to plan like that!

I do think he has shown the hypocrisy of opposition politics as shown by FG here. When it comes down to it, they just toe the line and take the Euros anyway.

It would be interesting to hear what the Greek people think of him! I suspect if Kenny did something similar here it wouldn't be going down well at all.

If Kenny tried the same thing (if he had the guts - yea right!) it would be met with the same reaction by Germany and France, with their bullying to boot.

As The Times (England) updates reporting is now reporting, he would have huge faced opposition from the other political main party opposing him.
Now he's managed alone to pull them into the fold of even supporting him.
With a threat of a referendum (which is always still there to be used again I suspect!), he's managed out of having virtually nothing, to get those that are loudly giving out about austerity measures, to work along side him.
The lesser enemies he has and the more that is seen to be standing beside him (as his government instigates the next round of hard measures) is to his clear advantage and by god he's called their bluff.

(He's insisting now that the vote of confidence (Friday) should go ahead. Again, this alone will send a message to the countries public and will thus also stem a lot of any political trouble ahead - for many even from the opposition will now be seen to be supporting him. There will still be riots, etc but his place in government while those further cuts come in, is more secure now than ever. One very clever man.)

ejmaztec

Biggins wrote: »

He is playing by their rules - but he's also playing by his own rules at home - to his own political advantage.
He has bugger all much to play with, yet with the 'cards' that he does play with, held over especially Germany and France, he's managed it looks like, to have forced as much as he could in cuts in some places to their debt, he's forcing his opposition even to support him, he's forcing the people to see that they REALLY have no choice, he's forcing the unions in his own country to 'like it or lump it' - He's playing a HELL of a game within rules and by god, he's getting away with it so far!

Jeasus... if ONLY our head of our government had half the brain and balls of this guy!
(We got a two faced, wimp poodle in comparison!)

Fair fcuks to him! Balls of steel he has!

He's like a pinball, or a chicken running around with its head cut off. I'm surprised he didn't implode.:P

K-9

Biggins wrote: »

If Kenny tried the same thing (if he had the guts - yea right!) it would be met with the same reaction by Germany and France, with their bullying to boot.

As The Times (England) updates reporting is now reporting, he would have huge faced opposition from the other political main party opposing him.
Now he's managed alone to pull them into the fold of even supporting him.
With a threat of a referendum (which is always still there to be used again I suspect!), he's managed out of having virtually nothing, to get those that are loudly giving out about austerity measures, to work along side him.
The lesser enemies he has and the more that is seen to be standing beside him (as his government instigates the next round of hard measures) is to his clear advantage and by god he's called their bluff.

(He's insisting now that the vote of confidence (Friday) should go ahead. Again, this alone will send a message to the countries public and will thus also stem a lot of any political trouble ahead - for many even from the opposition will now be seen to be supporting him. There will still be riots, etc but his place in government while those further cuts come in, is more secure now than ever. One very clever man.)

He's also still whittling on about the referendum too, he's either finally cracked or is a political genius.

The problem I have with this eulogy of him is: he isn't holding the referendum (well it seems as of now) and the same people saying wasn't he great standing up to the big bad Germans, are now saying isn't he great for caving to the Germans!

ejmaztec

Blind panic waiting for a Greek Junta revivalist to kick his door in.

hooradiation

SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »

Democracy is now dead in Europe

In other news, the sky is falling, THE SKY IS FALLING!

cml387

We are seeing the limits of democracy now before our eyes.

We all vote for the parties that will give us the goodies.

When the bills come to be paid we look for someone else to blame.

Bertie was right to say that in the boom times everyone was asking for more,it would be political suicide to say stop,no pay rises for the ps etc.

It would take a brave politician to stand up to the people and tell the truth and outline the consequences of recless spending,that happened here,in Greece,Italy and so on.Braver than Bertie or Cowan.

At the beginning of the crisis one European politician said words to the effect that "We know what needs to be done,but not how to be re-elected afterwards".

The enemy is us.

Biggins

K-9 wrote: »

He's also still whittling on about the referendum too, he's either finally cracked or is a political genius.

The problem I have with this eulogy of him is: he isn't holding the referendum (well it seems as of now) and the same people saying wasn't he great standing up to the big bad Germans, are now saying isn't he great for caving to the Germans!

He was in a no-win situation.
So what little he had and with what threats he could use, he's gained more support to keep him in power while he has to do what he clearly has to.
The people may riot, etc but the political numbers will be more behind him - and if they try open their mouths in opposition to any big extent, he knows he can rein them in somewhat better now.

Part of me suspects that Sarkosy and Merkel knew Papandreou faced a tough predicament back home and maybe engineered this latest 'hic-up' in order to solidify the Greek's PM position.
After all, they don't want to see Greece going down the tubes for the Billions they have invested in it!
...But thats just opinion.

What is fact is that tonight Papandreou is safer in his office, he has the opposition more so big time, supporting him and he will have publicly won favour again with EU heads (support I suspect, he never really lost!).

4leto

I have a pain in my bollox with Greece and the news in general about the Euro. Its like looking at a coming train crash in very slow motion.

Biggins

4leto wrote: »

I have a pain in my bollox with Greece and the news in general about the Euro. Its like looking at a coming train crash in very slow motion.

Its like a never ending episode of Eastenders!

ThelotusKid

Biggins wrote: »

Its like a never ending episode of Eastenders!

TBH, I'd prefer it up the ass than watch one minute of that tripe.

Thrill

8.12pm Samaras has just concluded his speech to parliament in which he has made clear that he has no interest in co-operating with Papandreou. He has also called for snap elections in six weeks. New Democracy is leaving the parliamentary debate on the confidence motion. The consensus only lasted for a few hours.


http://www.athensnews.gr/portal/8/49957



Greek opposition leader Antonis Samaras called on Prime Minister George Papandreou to resign Reuters

Biggins

ThelotusKid wrote: »

TBH, I'd prefer it up the ass than watch one minute of that tripe.

Some Most episodes are a pain in the ass! lol

Thrill wrote: »

8.12pm Samaras has just concluded his speech to parliament in which he has made clear that he has no interest in co-operating with Papandreou. He has also called for snap elections in six weeks. New Democracy is leaving the parliamentary debate on the confidence motion. The consensus only lasted for a few hours.


http://www.athensnews.gr/portal/8/49957

Greek opposition leader Antonis Samaras called on Prime Minister George Papandreou to resign Reuters

O' dear. He must have cottoned on!
He will be made out as the main bad guy now.
As the person that might finally bring collapse to Greece and further ruin to the state.
He just handed Papandreou a possible PR gain!

ThelotusKid

If Papandreou doesn't who will?

Something has to give and someone has to say stop.

Enough, already.

flutered

the greek p.m. has just found out that the old saying he/she who pays says, to be very very true.

K-9

The opposition leader has just called Papandreou's bluff!

ThelotusKid

flutered wrote: »

the greek p.m. has just found out that the old saying he/she who pays says, to be very very true.

Noooooo!

He could've been Jesus.

Thrill

Exclusive: Greek Prime Minister George Papandreou has struck a deal with ministers to step down and hand power to a negotiated coalition government if they help him win a confidence vote on Friday, government sources with knowledge of a cabinet meeting said.

They said the ministers involved in the deal were led by Finance Minister Evangelos Venizelos.

"He was told that he must leave calmly in order to save his party," one source told Reuters on condition of anonymity. "He agreed to step down. It was very civilized, with no acrimony."

Reuters

http://www.athensnews.gr/portal/8/49957

.

lmaopml

Sounds familiar.

They're backs are against the wall; chaos reigns when you are asked the impossible - it's only a short mile for us; but we're clever..lol..cutting back, cutting costs like there's no tomorrow, and promising a home, light and heating...Irish people are ok so long as they're very livlihood and work ethic doesn't diminish the 'family'....and those very simple things..

The politicians are showing themselves up as lightweight in the EU, the way they tackled this crisis is like plasters on a fatal wound, hoping it will just go away - they need to get real, and with it, and also show they are willing to sacrifice their careers in times of crisis...but make an honest decision - many a political career will be lost and found- ye know they're only passing through...do they know it!

Greece, should be saved - It's disgusting, but that is a double edged sword/mirror for very many individual states....... but they should be saved - that's the most honourable thing the EU could do, is to join up and support the currency...Whether it's EU bonds whatever, it's not the end of the world; just a 'timely' decision, and 'timely' resolution from the brains of the leaders of the 'EU' - this is the time to shine, not whimper.....ffs.

..and a sad day that the IMF are the 'goodies' -

headmaster

So, Popandreau has won the vote of confidence. What's this wiley old fella going to do next? Poor old Merkel and Sarkozy have a bit of poker playing to catch up on. What cards are going to be turned up next? Getting more interesting by the moment. Next chapter please.

Biggins

headmaster wrote: »

So, Popandreau has won the vote of confidence. What's this wiley old fella going to do next? Poor old Merkel and Sarkozy have a bit of poker playing to catch up on. What cards are going to be turned up next? Getting more interesting by the moment. Next chapter please.

LOL

He's certainly made what is a dull subject for some, a more lively one.
People didn't know what stunt he was going to pull next - and he's done it all so far with a serious amount of success!
I like the man! Fair bloody play to him. Anyone that can fcuk around Sarkosy AND Merkel has to be admired at least.

ascanbe

Papandreou Papandreou, Pap-andreou,
Papandreou Papandreou, Pap-andreou,
Papandreou Papandreou...oh oh oh Papandreou,
Ah come and rock me Papandreou.