Delon Armitage and players like him

Ardillaun

Rugby is a dangerous enough game even when played with the right spirit. Delon Armitage was yet again yellow-carded for a high tackle on a Bath player at the weekend. At some point, the authorities need to take action against such players who pose a hazard to their opponents.

Samich

If a player seriously intentionally wanted to hurt an opponent he wouldn't do it with a high tackle, he'd do it in a ruck or something. High tackles are mostly accidents.

CIARAN_BOYLE

Should go like Soccer

ugh I know wash my mouth out but what I mean is that multiple yellow in a competiton in a season should mean a ban. For example after the second yellow take a week off. Would cut out players who like to live on the line of borderline with their tackles.

corny

Certainly not an apologist for Delon Armitage but there was nothing malicious in that tackle.

stephen_n

High tackles are often a sign of over exuberance more than anything malicious, a sort of clumsiness. Your hardly going to do something that visible as a way of getting at the opposition. The game is so fast now the difference between wrapping a player up and high tackling them can be a milisecond!

Flincher

I think in the Pro12, you get a 1 game ban after 3 yellows. Mafi always seems to miss a game a year because of this.

Does anyone have a link to the Armitage tackle? I really don't like the guy, and my brain has already jumped to the conclusion that it was malicious and disgraceful and he should be banned for evermore.

GerM

Lawes picked up another yellow at the weekend for his speciality tackle; Jeremy Manning hit with a late shoulder without the ball. I thought the ban in the WC and subsequent loss of his starting spot would have given him some perspective. Obviously not. According to Franno's article yesterday, Gonzalo Tiesi's career is in danger following the late hit by Lawes on his knee in the WC which went completely unpunished.

danthefan

GerM wrote: »

Lawes picked up another yellow at the weekend for his speciality tackle; Jeremy Manning hit with a late shoulder without the ball. He's a right x. I thought the ban in the WC and subsequent loss of his starting spot would have given him some perspective. Obviously not. According to Franno's article yesterday, Gonzalo Tiesi's career is in danger following the late hit by Lawes on his knee in the WC which went completely unpunished.

Didn't really think there was a whole lot wrong with that tackle on Tiesi. Was a bit like Wallace, just unfortunate.

fitz

danthefan wrote: »

GerM wrote: »

Lawes picked up another yellow at the weekend for his speciality tackle; Jeremy Manning hit with a late shoulder without the ball. He's a right x. I thought the ban in the WC and subsequent loss of his starting spot would have given him some perspective. Obviously not. According to Franno's article yesterday, Gonzalo Tiesi's career is in danger following the late hit by Lawes on his knee in the WC which went completely unpunished.

Didn't really think there was a whole lot wrong with that tackle on Tiesi. Was a bit like Wallace, just unfortunate.

The problem is that Lawes has a habit of consistently repeating that particular "unfortunate" tackle. He times it so it looks a half second late, but never really attempts to wrap the player. He goes out to hurt other players and the sooner he's dealt with the better.

PhatPiggins

CIARAN_BOYLE wrote: »

Should go like Soccer

ugh I know wash my mouth out but what I mean is that multiple yellow in a competiton in a season should mean a ban. For example after the second yellow take a week off. Would cut out players who like to live on the line of borderline with their tackles.

Would be inclined to agree, Mafi might as well retire though.

Ardillaun

corny wrote: »

Certainly not an apologist for Delon Armitage but there was nothing malicious in that tackle.

I thought there was. The commentators thought it was accidental at first until they saw the replay. He strikes him on the side of the neck.

totallegend

It's easy to look at tackles and say "there was nothing wrong with that", but Armitage has a serious track record in this regard; when he nails some guy with a high tackle, who then has to be substituted, I'm inclined to think he should be cited and suspended.

profitius

Armitage has a terrible attitude. Gangsta rap clubs would be more his scene than the rugby field.

MyKeyG

I think playing the ref is becoming more and more common in modern Rugby. The 'accidental' high tackle, eye gouge, knee in the face etc all blamed on momentum or poor timing. It's difficult for refs in real time to recognise a well disguised foul which is why the IRB need to tackle it (no pun intended) on a panel basis.

Likewise it would prevent a genuine accident being punished just because the perpetrator has a reputation for thuggery.

GerM

danthefan wrote: »

Didn't really think there was a whole lot wrong with that tackle on Tiesi. Was a bit like Wallace, just unfortunate.

If it was an isolated incident, I'd be inclined to agree but Lawes is a serious repeat offender at this sort of thing and I can't see it as being anything other than intentional. He did it to Hamilton against Leicester in the Aviva semi-final, Murphy in the Ireland WC warm up, Tiesi in the WC and now Manning this weekend all in the last 6 months. The bloke is unnecessarily dirty in his play.

RuggieBear

can we please avoid name calling and the pejorative language please.

tolosenc

totallegend wrote: »

It's easy to look at tackles and say "there was nothing wrong with that", but Armitage has a serious track record in this regard; when he nails some guy with a high tackle, who then has to be substituted, I'm inclined to think he should be cited and suspended.

Even if they are just clumsy tackles, the fact that he hasn't sorted out his tendancy to commit them is borgering on willful disregard for the safety of other players.

[Jackass]

I dont see any problem with hard hits, and if you cant do it legally, such as a high tackle, the incentive to not do that is a yellow or red card or being dropped if you just cant stay on the pitch.

molloyjh

Saw both tackles in the ESPN highlights today. And it's the same old stuff from both players. Neither challenge looked malicious, but that's beside the point I think. The odd mistake here or there is fine but if a player is showing consistent disregard for the safety of other players, which both of these guys seem to be doing, then serious punishment is required. That it's not intentional (IF it's not intentional) doesn't matter. They are going to do some serious damage one day (if they havent already, Teisi for example) and this behaviour needs to be reigned in.

castie

RuggieBear wrote: »

pejorative

Had to google that one!

bamboozle

Delon got a 5 week ban for the high tackle, add that to the 8 weeks he got in January and 3 in april he's building a justified reputation for himself. His late hit on BOD in croker still irks me

MungBean

bamboozle wrote: »

Delon got a 5 week ban for the high tackle, add that to the 8 weeks he got in January and 3 in april he's building a justified reputation for himself. His late hit on BOD in croker still irks me

Plus 3 weeks for striking Dave Attwood with his knee. That 3 weeks is running along with the 5 week ban for the high tackle which I find absolutely pointless. Why would the longer ban encapsulate the smaller one and he not just be disciplined for both incidents ?

fitz

Bans running in parallel is a ridiculous state of affairs, and isn't going to do anything to help correct the problem of repeat offenders like Lawes and Armitage.

Verres

Armitage (Delon, not Stefan who's actually ok) is one player who wouldn't (won't?) feature for England under a new regime. If you watch him regularly you can see that he's actually terrible. He shirks his responsibilities in defence, knocks on easy catches, never makes an effort.

And then to pull the wool over the eyes of his coaches and make it look like he cares he *mod snip*

Flashdean

Verres wrote: »

Armitage (Delon, not Stefan who's actually ok) is one player who wouldn't (won't?) feature for England under a new regime. If you watch him regularly you can see that he's actually terrible. He shirks his responsibilities in defence, knocks on easy catches, never makes an effort.

And then to pull the wool over the eyes of his coaches and make it look like he cares he *mod snip*

Must disagree with that hes a great carrier of the ball and ive never seen him once duck out of a tackle!!

Reloc8

Here are the incidents

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SZJlyNnJGwA

The commentary is hilarious.

High Tackle is a bad one end of story and well worth the yellow and ban. High Shot, Swinging Arm, doesn't pull out, classic Delon Armitage.

The knee drop is blatant !

I'll admit in the interests of full disclosure that this is something which really gets my goat up (going in late/dirty on a player who has completed his attempt to score and is effectively prone). I keep thinking of Girvan Dempsey v England in twickenham when Ben Cohen slid in on his arse studs up, ending Dempsey's match).

It's also quite difficult for officials to pick up on as the focus will be on the ball and the player in act of scoring...but look at Armitage - no effort to pull out or hurdle the players. He commences his knee drop when the ball has been grounded, and even if that wern't so it would STILL be foul play to drop your knees in on a player attempting to score (its even foul play to attempt to kick a ball out of a players hands in the act of scoring) so he has absolutely no excuse by way of 'I was already committed'. Committed to what ?? A knee drop to the head ??

He has been a dirty player for a long time now and needs to clean up his act.

bamboozle

i see poor old Delon just hasnt learned....

binned against Bath for yet another late tackle

The Exile's misery was compounded when England international full-back Delon Armitage was sin-binned for a late tackle on Claassens.

wixfjord

bamboozle wrote: »

i see poor old Delon just hasnt learned....

binned against Bath for yet another late tackle

The Exile's misery was compounded when England international full-back Delon Armitage was sin-binned for a late tackle on Claassens.

There was also a claim against him for a high and late tackle last week against Exeter's Argie OH iirc
At least you can't say he's not prolific!

totallegend

Delon in trouble again...

http://www.irishtimes.com/sports/rugby/2012/0130/1224310973493.html

Funkstard

Total gob****e, can't stand him. How many times has he been banned / cited at this stage. From history I hear his personality carries on off the field too, remember hearing some stories about him when he played a pre season match against Leinster a few seasons ago.

Batsy

CIARAN_BOYLE wrote: »

Should go like Soccer

Football has become too much of an airy-fairy, non-contact, pansy, cissy boys' game. We don't want rugby to become the same way.

The more players engage in a spot of eye-gouging or fantastic challenges that almost take an opposition player's head off, the better.

If some referees and other people nowadays had the chance rugby players will be running around the pitch in pink tutus, chucking a bouquet of flowers about, and having to perform a spot of ballet before they put the ball down for a try.

twinytwo

Batsy wrote: »

Football has become too much of an airy-fairy, non-contact, pansy, cissy boys' game. We don't want rugby to become the same way.

The more players engage in a spot of eye-gouging or fantastic challenges that almost take an opposition player's head off, the better.

If some referees and other people nowadays had the chance rugby players will be running around the pitch in pink tutus, chucking a bouquet of flowers about, and having to perform a spot of ballet before they put the ball down for a try.

i dont even know what to say to that....

mikedragon32

Batsy wrote: »

Football has become too much of an airy-fairy, non-contact, pansy, cissy boys' game. We don't want rugby to become the same way.

The more players engage in a spot of eye-gouging or fantastic challenges that almost take an opposition player's head off, the better.

If some referees and other people nowadays had the chance rugby players will be running around the pitch in pink tutus, chucking a bouquet of flowers about, and having to perform a spot of ballet before they put the ball down for a try.

Batsy: twenty six weeks in the sin-bin.

leakyboots

5th suspension in 12 months

(Delon, not Batsy)

Rattlehead_ie

I know this might be slight biased, but I'm not talking about the on field stuff, but what is it about the English players and there off field "adventures"? Between issues in bars in NZ during RWC2011, driving under influence and now this........ Its not only giving the English a bad name but the sport itself.

Not to say its only the English players. If I was the IRB I would start looking at sanctions against the respective unions (RFU,IRFU.WRU etc) for not only bringing Union but sport into disrepute

CatFromHue

Rattlehead_ie wrote: »

I know this might be slight biased, but I'm not talking about the on field stuff, but what is it about the English players and there off field "adventures"? Between Midget throwing, driving under influence and now this........ Its not only giving the English a bad name but the sport itself.

Not to say its only the English players. If I was the IRB I would start looking at sanctions against the respective unions (RFU,IRFU.WRU etc) for not only bringing Union but sport into disrepute

I think the supposed midget throwing was a fabrication by the press.

Some of the Welsh players (Powell and Philips), some of the Kiwi players (Guildford with drink, Sivatu a few years back for hitting his wife, at the moment Rene Ranger is accused of assault, and Willie Ripia has been kicked off the Western Force's books for stealing from team mates as he has a gambling problem), and a few Aussies (Cooper for a few minor misdemeanour's) have all had problems with the law. It's not just the English and it's got nothing to do with the IRB.

Rattlehead_ie

CatFromHue wrote: »

I think the supposed midget throwing was a fabrication by the press.

Some of the Welsh players (Powell and Philips), some of the Kiwi players (Guildford with drink, Sivatu a few years back for hitting his wife, at the moment Rene Ranger is accused of assault, and Willie Ripia has been kicked off the Western Force's books for stealing from team mates as he has a gambling problem), and a few Aussies (Cooper for a few minor misdemeanour's) have all had problems with the law. It's not just the English and it's got nothing to do with the IRB.

My comments re IRB (or sport governing body) are in the case of where its constantly showing that a Unions players are lacking in some "quality" lets say. Whether its IRFU, RFU or whatever.

Also as I already stated its NOT just English. The discussion was on Armitage, so I was just making a point as its "on topic" seeing as he plays for England. I know there have been others but this is the 3rd of the RFU players in the last 8 - 9 months that have shown this. Yes we all know the Midget throwing was fabrication but there was some questionable behaviour at said time.

vinny chase

I'm just amazed at the silliness of Armitage to allow this to happen to him.

I fully understand that in some circumstances it is extremely tough being in the public eye, and that your indiscretions there will always be magnified by comparison to Joe Ordinary, and that you probably attract more aggravation and attention because of your public persona, but still.

There's an easy way to avoid these sort of situations, and that's to completely extricate yourself from the environment where they occur.

I'm not saying you've got to live as a hermit or anything, but you're one of the guys aspiring to be the English full back, up against some incredibly good opposition for the shirt, and it's the week before the 6N commences; should you really be in a nightclub?

goofball

Teferi

He's an awful eejit altogether.

durkadurka

These boys are making it very easy for Lancaster.

Have to say I really dont like Armitage. The words 'cheap shot' spring immediately to mind when I hear his name.

CatFromHue

Batsy wrote: »

Football has become too much of an airy-fairy, non-contact, pansy, cissy boys' game. We don't want rugby to become the same way.

The more players engage in a spot of eye-gouging or fantastic challenges that almost take an opposition player's head off, the better.

If some referees and other people nowadays had the chance rugby players will be running around the pitch in pink tutus, chucking a bouquet of flowers about, and having to perform a spot of ballet before they put the ball down for a try.

Peter is that you?

---

"We do not prepare them to do little small things that belong out in the bush veld. If you want to eye-gouge a lion, that is where you go.

"But we must understand here very, very clearly that rugby is a contact sport - and so is dancing.

"If we are going to win games in boardrooms and in front of television cameras and in shops, we must say to ourselves, 'Do we really respect this game that we really honour so much'?

"If it's the case that we are, why don't we all go to the nearest ballet shop, get some nice tutus and get some great dancing going on? No eye-gouging, no tackling, no nothing. Then enjoy.

"There are no collisions in ballet, but in this game there will be collisions. If people want to make it soft because we won a series I cannot do anything about it."

http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/rugby/2009/06/30/if-you-want-ballet-get-a-tutu-115875-21482533/

pickarooney

Rattlehead_ie wrote: »

My comments re IRB (or sport governing body) are in the case of where its constantly showing that a Unions players are lacking in some "quality" lets say. Whether its IRFU, RFU or whatever.

Also as I already stated its NOT just English. The discussion was on Armitage, so I was just making a point as its "on topic" seeing as he plays for England. I know there have been others but this is the 3rd of the RFU players in the last 8 - 9 months that have shown this. Yes we all know the Midget throwing was fabrication but there was some questionable behaviour at said time.

If you knew it was a fabrication, why did you bring it up as though it wasn't? And if your comments were not specifically about English players why did you say "What is it about English players?"? It's rather dishonest of you, don't you think?

Rattlehead_ie

pickarooney wrote: »

If you knew it was a fabrication, why did you bring it up as though it wasn't? And if your comments were not specifically about English players why did you say "What is it about English players?"? It's rather dishonest of you, don't you think?

I believe its what, the situation, is/was generally referred too, its also to bring some light humour to the discussion. You obviously have a major problem with that, I may though see your point in how overly offensive it have been, so please accept my deepest apologies and I have edit it accordingly.

As for the comment "What is it about English players" if you look at my post, I believe the 1st paragraph was keeping the topic of the thread .......well on topic. Armitage (who is mentioned in the thread topic) being English players and of recent i.e the last 5 - 6 months there has been mainly,but not always, English players who have been in trouble. Further more, like CatFromHue you seem to have missed my 2nd paragraph where I go onto the broader spectrum of things and state "Not to say its only the English players" and mention some of the other Unions, the IRFU and WRU as e.g.

So to answer your question was I dishonest......my answer would be "No"
If your question was could I have worded it better... my answer "Maybe" Its open to interpretation. Now can we stop this silly petty discussion and get it back onto topic please.

So do you believe we will see Delon back in the English Squad inc Saxons?

thomond2006

http://www.planetrugby.com/story/0,25883,3551_7539330,00.html

It was definitely worth it.

Flincher

I'd definitely take a week off work if I got to punch Delon Armitage in the face.

Rattlehead_ie

Oh id give him his weeks wages for that :P

you know well when he got to the dressing room after EVERYBODY prob clapped him on the back.

totallegend

thomond2006 wrote: »

http://www.planetrugby.com/story/0,25883,3551_7539330,00.html

It was definitely worth it.

It was worth it just to generate that headline. Eeyyyy!

BBDBB

That kind of violent behaviour is a blight upon our game, it should be dealt with with the severest of sanctions and treated as common assault with criminal charges being brou.............who?..........Delon Armitage you say?............well of course its a mans game and Im sure Fondse has a clean record with no previous form for this sort of thing, have a word in his ear and lets put it behind us, whaddya say?

jacothelad

thomond2006 wrote: »

http://www.planetrugby.com/story/0,25883,3551_7539330,00.html

It was definitely worth it.

He'll never have to buy a post match drink.

Ardillaun

I posted this in a 2011 thread earlier. In the recent Toulon-Clermont game, Delon Armitage kneed Rougerie in the head while both were getting up, perhaps accidentally. Later when he was tackling him he swung a forearm into his face which Rougerie did not take as well. There was another incident when he was trying to knock the ball out of a player's hand and ended up punching him in the ribs. I see a pattern here of dangerous recklessness at best. I would have to admit I am biased on this issue.