Poor showing by SF?

Einhard

The result of the presidential election was patently disastrous for Gay Mitchell, and by extension for FG, and excellent for the Labour party. However, many commentators have concluded that it was also an excellent result for SF, and a major step in broadening their appeal in the Republic. There's even been talk that MMG's run was really a test run for a future bid by Gerry Adams.

I can't share that conclusion however, and it's nothing to do with my antipathy for SF. The party received 9.9% of the vote in the last election, coming fourth behind a discredited and demoralised FF. Since then, they've had up to 18% in the polls, with their supporters even laying claim to the mantle of second largest party in the Republic.

So, they have a strong base in the south. They have a candidate who, despite all my misgivings about him, is articulate, passionate, experienced, and well known. And yet...despite these advantages, MMG racked up only 13.7% of the vote. Now, fair enough, that's a respectable figure, but it's far from the achievement that SF, or the many commentators, are making of it.

The performance becomes even less impressive when one thinks of who he lost out to- a man whom many believed to have been both intimately involved with FF, and in the type of dodgy cute-hoorism that was synonomous with that party. And yet, MMG, the Messiah, came third behind him. He didn't get even half Gallagher's vote.

I don't, therefore, see how this result can be painted in such positive tones by SF. If anything, it highlights the glaring limits to their support in the south.

Sunnyisland

Considering that the Sinn Fein vote was across the board, the caliber of the other candidates and how they resonated with ‘safe’ Ireland, and the negative publicity that was a constant for MMG, I would imagine that this election have ticked off quite a few boxes for Sinn Fein and the Director Of Elections and his Staff have every reason to be pleased with themselves.
Yet the facts overwhelmingly indicate that the election candidacy of Martin McGuinness has been a successful one for republicans:

1. McGuinness’ vote percentage represents an almost 40% increase on the Sinn Fein vote which had already reached its highest level in the February Dail election.
2. The even spread of McGuinness’ vote indicates that, right across the State, he tapped into a vote which republicans must now view as theirs to lose in key constituencies which can represent strategic gains in the next Dail Election.
3. In an election in which the ruling Fine Gael party candidate has suffered the humiliation of losing his claim to expenses, the Sinn Fein figure came well above Mitchell and three other candidates.
4. McGuinness’ candidacy has once again highlighted the issue of northerners voting in subsequent Irish Presidential elections, something which will continue to form a key plank of Sinn Fein’s political platform and to which other parties keen on curtailing their growth (namely Fianna Fail and the SDLP) may now be forced to become more active on.
5. The McGuinness candidacy has been a spectacular success north of the border, further cementing the party’s status as the pre-eminent voice of northern nationalism. It is worth noting that, whilst Mary McAleese was hounded into declaring that she had never voted for Sinn Fein in the debates and tv discussions preceding the 1997 Presidential election, there was an impressive range of high profile voices declaring their support for McGuinness in this election, something which illustrates how far perceptions of the party have altered across the country, north and south.
6. The enduring image of this election campaign will be the moment in which McGuinness exposed Sean Gallagher’s Fianna Fail connections, effectively slaying the dragon and proving to be Higgins’ kingmaker. Whilst spurious arguments have been raised in order to suggest that Gallagher was an innocent victim of the engagement, the facts clearly indicate that Hugh Morgan’s account severely challenges the credibility of Gallagher’s subsequent denials, which were made in interviews in which the independent Fianna Fail candidate cleverly raised and rejected a legion of straw man arguments which put a lie to the suggestion that he was too honest to respond like a politician to the questions he faced (btw anyone who caught the magnificent Gift Grub sketch in which Sean Gallagher was revealed to be Bertie Ahern in disguise can appreciate the power of ridicule!)

McGuinness will now return to his northern post as Deputy First Minister with a heightened profile and platform which Sinn Fein will put to good use politically and electorally in the years to come across the island.




(posted this in another thread here to)

Samich

On the other hand he finished 3rd out of 8.

Success for SF.

Sunnyisland

Samich wrote: »

On the other hand he finished 3rd out of 8.

Success for SF.

7 there were 7

Samich

realies wrote: »

7 there were 7

balls, I was just testing ye

Ozymandius2011

They couldn't even beat Gallagher in strongholds like Donegal SW, Cavan-Monaghan, Cork SW, Laois_Offaly.

Richard tea

I think Martin would have finished in second place if the whole brown envelope thing with Sean had of been brought to light a few days sooner. The sky is the limit for SF now. With new fresh faces like Pearse Doherty here now I reckon SF will do quite well.

Einhard

realies wrote: »

Considering that the Sinn Fein vote was across the board, the caliber of the other candidates and how they resonated with ‘safe’ Ireland,

The "caliber" of the other candiates, and their resonating with the voters? Pull the other one! Two the candidates were no hopers, another spent most of his time tamping down flames of sexual allegation, the FG candidate was dour and uninspiring, resonating with no one, and the former frontrunner was a small time business man, whose claim to fame was a reality tv show. Not exactly the field with the highest of calibres!

I love though, how throughout the campaign, a the poor field was a constant theme. Now that it's over, and suddenly the field is transformed into one of political behemoths, against whom the bould Martin pluckily held his own. Feckin hell, it's never too early for SF to start re-writing history!

and the negative publicity that was a constant for MMG,

As opposed to that directed at Norris, Dana, Davis, and Gallagher at the end? Also, you omit to mention that the publicity that MMG receives is something on which his support amongst SF leaning Republicans rests. The same aspects of the man's "career" which repel me, actively attract many other supporters. So one can't talk of his publicity as entirely negative.

I would imagine that this election have ticked off quite a few boxes for Sinn Fein and the Director Of Elections and his Staff have every reason to be pleased with themselves.

Certainly they do. It was a decent result, but far from the great achievement that some commentators, and MMG are wont to believe.

Yet the facts overwhelmingly indicate that the election candidacy of Martin McGuinness has been a successful one for republicans:

True. I'm a Republican, and I voted for Michael D. So you're correct there.

McGuinness’ vote percentage represents an almost 40% increase on the Sinn Fein vote which had already reached its highest level in the February Dail election.

A 40% increase from a rather small base.

The even spread of McGuinness’ vote indicates that, right across the State, he tapped into a vote which republicans must now view as theirs to lose in key constituencies which can represent strategic gains in the next Dail Election.

And yetm in the Dublin West by-election, SF's candidate came fourth behind the two parties of a government implementing austerity measures, and a party which was supposed to be practically wiped out. Indeed, the SF candidate received barely 4% higher vote than the Green Party! Again, I'm not denigrating the result for SF, but rather pointing out that it's not the breakthrough that they want to claim.

In an election in which the ruling Fine Gael party candidate has suffered the humiliation of losing his claim to expenses, the Sinn Fein figure came well above Mitchell and three other candidates.

The presidency is all about personality, and Gay Mitchell has none. I have rocks in my garden that would have fared as well as Mitchell. Coming ahead of him in the polls isn't a crowning achievement, and the fact that SF are crowing about it would indicate that they too know that this result is not what they wish to claim.

McGuinness’ candidacy has once again highlighted the issue of northerners voting in subsequent Irish Presidential elections, something which will continue to form a key plank of Sinn Fein’s political platform and to which other parties keen on curtailing their growth (namely Fianna Fail and the SDLP) may now be forced to become more active on.

Fair enough, but that's nothing to do with the issue of this thread, namely that this wasn't the electoral breakthrough that some claim.

The McGuinness candidacy has been a spectacular success north of the border, further cementing the party’s status as the pre-eminent voice of northern nationalism. It is worth noting that, whilst Mary McAleese was hounded into declaring that she had never voted for Sinn Fein in the debates and tv discussions preceding the 1997 Presidential election, there was an impressive range of high profile voices declaring their support for McGuinness in this election, something which illustrates how far perceptions of the party have altered across the country, north and south.

Again, not the issue of the thread.

I'd point out though, that McAleese was elected a year before the GFA. It's hardly surprising that SF's star might have risen somewhat in the intervening period.

The enduring image of this election campaign will be the moment in which McGuinness exposed Sean Gallagher’s Fianna Fail connections, effectively slaying the dragon and proving to be Higgins’ kingmaker. Whilst spurious arguments have been raised in order to suggest that Gallagher was an innocent victim of the engagement, the facts clearly indicate that Hugh Morgan’s account severely challenges the credibility of Gallagher’s subsequent denials, which were made in interviews in which the independent Fianna Fail candidate cleverly raised and rejected a legion of straw man arguments which put a lie to the suggestion that he was too honest to respond like a politician to the questions he faced (btw anyone who caught the magnificent Gift Grub sketch in which Sean Gallagher was revealed to be Bertie Ahern in disguise can appreciate the power of ridicule!)

Again, not the subject of the thread. I'm delighted that MMG showed Gallagher up for what he is, but it's instructive to note that SF didn't benefit from Gallagher's implosion. Something, I think, that strengthens my own thesis that a huge number of people in the Republic will simply not vote for SF.

McGuinness will now return to his northern post as Deputy First Minister with a heightened profile and platform which Sinn Fein will put to good use politically and electorally in the years to come across the island.

Again, not the....

(posted this in another thread here to)

I was wondering how you had responded in such detail so quickly!

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

donegal11

Richard tea wrote: »

I think Martin would have finished in second place if the whole brown envelope thing with Sean had of been brought to light a few days sooner. The sky is the limit for SF now. With new fresh faces like Pearse Doherty here now I reckon SF will do quite well.

Do you honestly think gallaghers votes would go to SF to put him into 2nd, especially after Monday?And I think if the brown envelop thing happened earlier Gallagher would have recovered in the polls.Imagine Pearse Doherty as Minister for finance :rolleyes: .

Einhard

Richard tea wrote: »

I think Martin would have finished in second place if the whole brown envelope thing with Sean had of been brought to light a few days sooner. The sky is the limit for SF now. With new fresh faces like Pearse Doherty here now I reckon SF will do quite well.

What do you base that on? What you desire and what transpires in the real world are not one in the same thing. MMG came quite a mediocre, respectable third. SF's man in Dublin SW came a poor 5th. Seems more like pie in the sky on the part of SF than sky is the limit!

dsmythy

Meanwhile in the Dublin West by-election the Sinn Féin candidate lost to Labour, Fianna Fáil, the Socialists and Fine Gael. But they did record a glorious victory over a Green Party candidate and a number of no hope independents though!

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

jimmycrackcorm

Desite McGuinness's ingenious goal over Gallagher in the Frontline debate, people still voted a novice candidate over twice an accomplished and experienced politician. (628,114 against 265,196).

By any measure this is a spectacular fail for Sinn Fein.

LuckyLloyd

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

Desite McGuinness's ingenious goal over Gallagher in the Frontline debate, people still voted a novice candidate over twice an accomplished and experienced politician. (628,114 against 265,196).

By any measure this is a spectacular fail for Sinn Fein.

This is an awful thread thus far. Both sides engaging in ridiculous hyperbole. The truth? He did fine, achieved a solid end result that was probably towards the minimum of what they thought was possible at the outset of the campaign.

mistermouse

I'd imagine that putting MMcG forward was a strategic move by SF. More about building the Parties Profile. I think his intention in taking out Sean Gallagher was more about hitting Fianna Fail than Sean Gallagher in the debate as SF look to lead the opposition and take on FF's Position

Donegal SW voted heavily for Sean Gallagher as he has roots there and many liked his non dirty style of campaigning. Labour put up an idiot for the By-Election and General Election there too so they obviously do not rate Donegal

Donegal in both constituancies voted against Lisbon 2. In Donegal, we are well aware we have been forgotten throughout the boom times and also well aware of the troubles in NI, something that Fine Gael would never have solved, nor Labour for that matter, but FG have a bad track record on that score.

While both constituancies were well known FF territories in the past, Donegal is not afraid to be different though tend to vote on personalities too.

Up here the troubles affected us, consistant Irish Governments ignored us and we have learned to get on with things. Martin McGuinness had more of a bearing on our lives, whilst others liked the Border guy who played clean as opposed to the parties who never did anything to help.

We'd be suprised to see Micheal D up here at any time, not that we'd want him wasting resources flying up while his car follows as McAleeses did recently. We'd not miss him either though. The Leprauchan President as many now think of him may do well abroad but we'd rather genuine solutions to our problems up here

Victor

mistermouse, can we take it that you corn flakes had a tangy taste?

Einhard wrote: »

with their supporters even laying claim to the mantle of second largest party in the Republic.

That sounds rather mathematically challenged.

blorg

Victor wrote: »

That sounds rather mathematically challenged.

Unless this is some sort of reference to the margin of error, this is the referenced poll:

http://www.rte.ie/news/2011/1007/politics.html

I am no Sinn Fein supporter but this election has been excellent for them and anyone saying it hasn't is deluded, or has an agenda.

Jody Corcoran (grr) in the Irish Independent has a piece where he complains that their vote was only up 20k or so, and thus a failure, conveniently omitting the lower turnout and that it is up 40% in percentage terms.That is unbelievably misleading journalism, I don't know how it gets printed. Oh, Irish Independent.

Victor

Also: http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/frontpage/2011/1007/1224305391010.html

http://www.rte.ie/news/2011/1007/politics.html

Sinn Féin has become the second most popular political party in the country, according to the latest Irish Times/Ipsos MRBI poll.

Assuming 1,000 people polled and a consequent 3% margin of error, all the poll is asserting is that (a) SF was second most popular amount the 1,000 sampled and (b) this is likely to mean that they are approximately on par wihh Labour and FF.

That poll is saying that with 95% certainty, the parties stand as follow:
FG 32-38%
SF 15-21%
Lab 14-20%
FF 13-19%
Green 0-5%
Others 9-15%

Of course, because there is 5% uncertainty (on top of the 3% margin of error), we don't know the actual figures.

Relying on a single poll to claim you are the second biggest party in the state is misguided.

blorg

Well, it wasn't Sinn Fein saying it, it was the Irish Times and RTE. I don't think it is an unreasonable statement based on that poll.

Pride Fighter

Einhard wrote: »

I can't share that conclusion however, and it's nothing to do with my antipathy for SF. The party received 9.9% of the vote in the last election, coming fourth behind a discredited and demoralised FF. Since then, they've had up to 18% in the polls, with their supporters even laying claim to the mantle of second largest party in the Republic.

They are the joint third largest party according to the latest opinion poll. http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2011/1025/1224306445310.html

BQQ

After the last couple of opinion polls, the election was portrayed as a two-horse race. I think MDH benefited from the anti-gallagher vote, picking up first prefs that were originally going to Mitchell, McG and Norris.

Without this, I think McG would have done better in percentage terms, but still 3rd.

kippy

Ultimately McGuinness did exactly what SF wanted him to do.
1. Raise the profile of the party in areas that they hadn't had access to before via huge amounts of media/debate time.
2. Raise the profile of SF internationally.
3. Show the Irish Public that they are serious about politics in this state.

I dont think he or SF believed they could actually win it but it has provided a major boost to the party for the many different elections to come.
Despite his major baggage and unknown past he didnt, in my opinion do badly.
This current generation of senior SF politicians have too much unknown baggage to get these big jobs but not the next generation.

Unfortunately for me anyway, it was patently obvious from his campaign that numero uno on SF agenda is to have a "united" Ireland. Which in my opinion also needs to change before they will gain widespread acceptance in this stage. That being said however, the way things are at the moment, with FF down and out, FG and Labour in a government that has to implement some really difficult decisions over the next few years (if they last that long), SF know that the political landscape is ripe for them to make massive gains in the next number of elections and perhaps in the next decade actually hold a position in government (Not that far fetched)
MMG's run was just another step towards that.

efb

Ozymandius2011 wrote: »

They couldn't even beat Gallagher in strongholds like Donegal SW, Cavan-Monaghan, Cork SW, Laois_Offaly.

I wouldn't call LO a SF Stringhold- and Gallagher got a huge first pref in FF Offally where his mother had links

Victor

blorg wrote: »

Well, it wasn't Sinn Fein saying it

Um...

Einhard wrote: »

with their supporters even laying claim to the mantle of second largest party in the Republic.

lugha

I suppose whether SF did well or not depends on where they set the bar for themselves. If they are content to simply do better than they did last time out then yes, they are having a good run.

But given that the time is as ripe in Ireland as it might ever be for a socialist party, and given that Labour are pretty much peddling in tandem with FG, you wonder if some of them are not secretly disappointed that they are not doing an awful lot better. Couple that with the evidence that the tomb has been visited and the FF beast would seem to have arisen ....

I think the next general election will probably be a truer test of the limits of what SF can achieve.

Wallflower

Sticking to question, and unfortunately seems necessary to declare my position vis-a-vis (not a supporter, have never voted for them, but at the same time not particularly anti-SF) - to avoid knee-jerk responses.

I'd consider it a good election for Sinn Fein in line with many of the perceptive points given by previous posters. Did they meet their objectives? I would think they did - lets face it they were never concerned with winning it.

- Increased national profile as "authentic" political party in ROI - Yes
- Increased percentage share of vote - Yes
- Further in-roads into FF vote - Don't know, hard to gauge

Its clear to see they view their politics in Ireland as a "long" game, and every step no matter how small is a step forward.

KELTICKNIGHTT

Richard tea wrote: »

I think Martin would have finished in second place if the whole brown envelope thing with Sean had of been brought to light a few days sooner. The sky is the limit for SF now. With new fresh faces like Pearse Doherty here now I reckon SF will do quite well.

SF only ended up with 15% because what happened,Even if sf was 4th or 5th place ,They say they where happy but the put there best candidate forward and lost badly. Everyone knows it.
Think the statement on rte was sf have to see what went wrong.
And we all know what went wrong.

Dyr

I wouldnt get too carried away, this was the league not the championship, to nick pee flynns analogy

KELTICKNIGHTT

Pride Fighter wrote: »

They are the joint third largest party according to the latest opinion poll. http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2011/1025/1224306445310.html

Interesting read,according to poll,not much changed sinse last election as far as party support goes.

Einhard

blorg wrote: »

I am no Sinn Fein supporter but this election has been excellent for them and anyone saying it hasn't is deluded, or has an agenda.

I really don't see how this is the case. Just saying something doesn't make it true. MMG got 13.7% of the vote, polling a distant second behind a rank amateur who had been exposed as having close links to the hated FF culture that pervaded this country for so long. I stated it was a reasonable, respectable result. I think that's a fair assessment. To call it "excellent" is, IMO, totally without basis.

Einhard

kippy wrote: »

Despite his major baggage and unknown past he didnt, in my opinion do badly.

Well that's exactly my point. He didn't do badly. But from some of the statements and pronouncements, one would think this was a brilliant result for SF. In reality, one of their most seasoned operators, a skilled politician and campaigner, came a rather distant third. Not exactly a result to crow about.

K-9

People can argue about the vote, I'd have said anything between 10-15% was okay, 20% or more excellent, the problem for SF is his support flat lined from day 1 and if anything, fell.

So while all the other candidates barring Higgins dropped support at some stage, McGuinness never got any advantage from it.

dlofnep

Sinn Féin supporters will view this as a success. Sinn Féin detractors will view it as a failure. The truth lies somewhere in between. I don't view 250,000 FPV's, in lieu of a relentlessly negative media campaign against McGuinness to be a complete failure.

Compare and contrast McGuinness with Mitchell. Mitchell had the backing of the majority Government party, along with softball media questions. Despite that - Even in his own constituency, he lost out terribly.

It's probably worth noting that a large portion of working class votes that might have gone to McGuinness went to Higgins instead. That was McGuinness' real competition - and it's very difficult to beat Higgins, who is a remarkable politician and a well respected person.

In closing - I'm happy Higgins got the nod. I gave him my #2. I thought McGuinness was in with a decent chance prior to the election, but I just felt that the media didn't give him a chance, and didn't dwell for a moment on the positive things he has done in politics. Marty can go back up north now where it's acceptable for him to re-engage with the political system as the Deputy First Minister.

Sin é.

nesf

Richard tea wrote: »

I think Martin would have finished in second place if the whole brown envelope thing with Sean had of been brought to light a few days sooner. The sky is the limit for SF now. With new fresh faces like Pearse Doherty here now I reckon SF will do quite well.

That's wishful thinking tbh. Look at the recap polls, the candidate that was sweeping up the votes leaving Gallagher was Higgins not McGuinness. When it comes down to it it seems like more floating voters (or soft support if you prefer) goes Labour's way before it goes SF's.

It was a decent result for SF* but don't blow it out of proportion and make yourselves look silly.


* against a relatively soft field with only one serious candidate with a long term history of getting votes in it (i.e. Higgins)

LordSutch

dlofnep wrote: »

I don't view 250,000 FPV's, in lieu of a relentlessly negative media campaign against McGuinness to be a complete failure.

I thought it was only 243,000 First Preference Votes? which when combined with Gay Mitchels votes still fell short of Sean Gallaghers 1st Preference Votes.

ArmaniJeanss

dsmythy wrote: »

Meanwhile in the Dublin West by-election the Sinn Féin candidate lost to Labour, Fianna Fáil, the Socialists and Fine Gael. But they did record a glorious victory over a Green Party candidate and a number of no hope independents though!

I'd normally be the first to join in a bit of SF-bashing, but I think there are extenuating cirumstances in Dublin West for them.

They just don't seem to consider it a 'target seat' - the makeup of it as means it is always going to be 2 centrist/rightwing seats and 2 left wing seats and their on-the-ground organisation is light years behind that of Joe Higgins and the Socialist Party (who aim at basically the same demographic as SF).

So they hold fire (:)) on putting major resources into elections in this constituency and aim all their bullets ( ) at winnable seats, which is a sensible attitude.

anymore

Einhard wrote: »

The result of the presidential election was patently disastrous for Gay Mitchell, and by extension for FG, and excellent for the Labour party. However, many commentators have concluded that it was also an excellent result for SF, and a major step in broadening their appeal in the Republic. There's even been talk that MMG's run was really a test run for a future bid by Gerry Adams.

I can't share that conclusion however, and it's nothing to do with my antipathy for SF. The party received 9.9% of the vote in the last election, coming fourth behind a discredited and demoralised FF. Since then, they've had up to 18% in the polls, with their supporters even laying claim to the mantle of second largest party in the Republic.

So, they have a strong base in the south. They have a candidate who, despite all my misgivings about him, is articulate, passionate, experienced, and well known. And yet...despite these advantages, MMG racked up only 13.7% of the vote. Now, fair enough, that's a respectable figure, but it's far from the achievement that SF, or the many commentators, are making of it.

The performance becomes even less impressive when one thinks of who he lost out to- a man whom many believed to have been both intimately involved with FF, and in the type of dodgy cute-hoorism that was synonomous with that party. And yet, MMG, the Messiah, came third behind him. He didn't get even half Gallagher's vote.

I don't, therefore, see how this result can be painted in such positive tones by SF. If anything, it highlights the glaring limits to their support in the south.

MGM doesnt live in the Republic, has no record of involvement in life in the Republic, was targeted by the irish Indo Group, has all the baggage of being a former IRA leader, so his results are actually quite astonishing !
His part has proven they are capable of fielding a candidate whilst the Party that has dominated the Republic since its inception failed to do so. His party showed they could fairly effectively manage a national campaign whilst the senior party in Government has proven it couldnt.
All in all quite an astonishing result ...and I didnt vote MGN/SF.
Those attacked MGM because of his IRA links will be far less effectively able to do this at the next major election - the sting has been drawn from the tail. Many irish people have moved on from ' Old Ireland politics'. The real war in now the economic one.

wow sierra

I understand that the participation of McGuinness in the election was to raise the profile of Sinn Féin and more importantly make them more acceptable or respectable as a party of the mainstream for voters in the 26 counties.

I think they achieved this in spades in the campaign. Yes of course the horrors of IRA violence was constantly analysed and highlighted. But there were a lot of people praising and defending McGuinness that have never voted Sinn Féin in their lives.

The frontline debate will be talked about for decades to come and I think by in large people will be glad that Miceal D is their Preisdent not Seán Gallagher. McGuinness and Sinn Féin will get a lot of credit for this.

I think the final percentage vote will be a bit disappointing for them but they won't admit it. However I think it was reduced by neutrals who were going to give McGuinness a vote because of the Peace Process etc but switched to Michael D to keep Gallagher out. Norris's vote was effected too by the fear of Gallager winning.

KELTICKNIGHTT

anymore wrote: »

MGM doesnt live in the Republic, has no record of involvement in life in the Republic, was targeted by the irish Indo Group, has all the baggage of being a former IRA leader, so his results are actually quite astonishing !
His part has proven they are capable of fielding a candidate whilst the Party that has dominated the Republic since its inception failed to do so. His party showed they could fairly effectively manage a national campaign whilst the senior party in Government has proven it couldnt.
All in all quite an astonishing result ...and I didnt vote MGN/SF.
Those attacked MGM because of his IRA links will be far less effectively able to do this at the next major election - the sting has been drawn from the tail. Many irish people have moved on from ' Old Ireland politics'. The real war in now the economic one.

As long as any sf ex terrorist is in a election in south,they will always have to answer there questionable past and present.
If they don't like it,then don't run
When will sinn fein move on from the past and accept that state of Ireland is 26 counties only ?
It's about time sf woke up to the fact that northern Ireland is part of uk and Ireland is separate from the north
Till sf and supporters face up to this,no one will believe sf have moved on and are not a party to depend on in future elections for the foreseeable future.

dlofnep

LordSutch wrote: »

I thought it was only 243,000 First Preference Votes?

I was off by less than 3%. So sue me.

LordSutch wrote: »

which when combined with Gay Mitchels votes still fell short of Sean Gallaghers 1st Preference Votes.

Well, considering Mitchell got half of McGuinness' votes and did miserable in his very own constituency - that wouldn't be too hard. All things aside - 243,000 FPV's in a campaign that saw a relentless attack by the media isn't too shabby at all.

Like I said earlier:

Sinn Féin supporters will view this as a success. Sinn Féin detractors will view it as a failure.

You fall into the latter category.

blahfckingblah

KELTICKNIGHTT wrote: »

As long as any sf ex terrorist is in a election in south,they will always have to answer there questionable past and present.
If they don't like it,then don't run
When will sinn fein move on from the past and accept that state of Ireland is 26 counties only ?
It's about time sf woke up to the fact that northern Ireland is part of uk and Ireland is separate from the north
Till sf and supporters face up to this,no one will believe sf have moved on and are not a party to depend on in future elections for the foreseeable future.

so how do you propose one moves on from the past and look back to the past to accept questions on it? :rolleyes:

Liam Byrne

Considering some aspects of what they represent - which I'll admit to some extent involves Hobson's choice between maintaining their core support and changing to make themselves acceptable - I'm surprised that they got as high as they did.

I think a lot of it has to do with FG u-turning on their promises and continuing FF policies, to the laughable point where Martin hypocritically "objects" to FG paying unguaranteed bondholders, making some level of a protest vote inevitable, whether through venom or despair.

I know that if there had been a half-decent independent candidate I may have done likewise (clarification edit : registered a protest vote against anyone associated with any political party)

However having listened to Michael D's acceptance speech I'm happy that I made the right choice - at least I won't have to turn off the TV or radio in disgust for any important occasion.

Liam Byrne

Actually, something just occurred to me.

There wasn't ANY SF showing for the election, good or bad, because - like Gallagher - McGun was running as an independent, right ?

So just as FF can't bask in getting second place, SF can't bask in third, right ?

mikeyboy

Now I'm prepared to be accused of manipulating statistics here (or to be corrected by someone who is better at statistical analysis than I am) but the following has occurred to me
In the General election we had 70% voter turnout of which Sinn Fein achieved 10% or 7% of the population
In the Presidential election we had 50% voter turnout of which Sinn Fein achieved 13% or 6.5% of the population
So either Sinn Fein's vote has declined or they failed to mobilise their support

Sunnyisland

Permabear wrote: »

This post had been deleted.

No whats actually embarrassing about this election is the complete disaster of the government's candidate Gay don't mind the polls Mitchel .And MMG bet him 2/1 in votes, that's some achievement.
As has been said by other posters here MMG did great against a huge Anti SF/MMG campaign, He is & should be proud of himself.

dabestman1

I was expecting MMG to do better but I do consider the fact that a lot of people considered it a 2 horse race and voted accordingly. The best candidate won at the end of the day. Good piece in the Daily Mail about MDH Today. As the bye-elction was mentioned, FG had an appaling one too.

thebman

I thought it was a very good showing myself having never actually voted for them and I didn't in the presidential election.

K-9

Getting twice the votes of Gay Mitchell isn't an achievement lads, no matter how much it's repeated, less than half Gallagher's vote puts it in perspective.

Einhard

realies wrote: »

No whats actually embarrassing about this election is the complete disaster of the government's candidate Gay don't mind the polls Mitchel .And MMG bet him 2/1 in votes, that's some achievement.

Labour are part of the coalition too, so in that sense, the government candidate did quite well...

As has been said by other posters here MMG did great against a huge Anti SF/MMG campaign, He is & should be proud of himself.

Which is the point. He did as well as could have been expected, but he didn't achieve any sort of breakthrough, because most of the people in the south are appalled at his, and SF's, past activities. I can't see that changing until the likes of McGuinness, Ferris et al are replaced in the party.

dlofnep

Einhard wrote: »

Labour are part of the coalition too, so in that sense, the government candidate did quite well...

Don't be disingenuous. Higgins got in on his own merits, and on the support of the Labour party base. It had absolutely nothing to do with Fine Gael, which is the majority Government party. Their candidate failed miserably, and you know it.