Political allegiance of SU

Sid_Justice

I'm just wondering how the current students union stands in terms of party politics. Are they all FF heads or labour heads or wha'?

Just wondering what the principles are for individual politics within the su? Like if an officer was a very strong supporter of a particular party, would they be asked to kinda keep that kind of stuff to themselves or are they allowed to use their influence on the student body as much as they wish.

I went looking for Davis there the other day but he wasn't around to ask him himself.

Jester252

I don't think that political outlook of an office will have much effect on how the officer does his/her job.

Sid_Justice

well you're obviously wrong about that

Jester252

Explain

Sid_Justice

A clear example would be if a welfare officer was a staunch supporter of eirigi and their politics which would compromise their ability to give fair advice to people in crisis pregnancies.

Just as a request, would it possible for people who are completely politically uniformed and naive to refrain from posting in this thread because i went to get to the point with this thread and not have silly people ruin it by going off topic.

thanks

Jester252

Everyone has an opinion on everything. If you are in a position that at some stage requires give advice on a very sensitive matter you would be able to give such advice as best you can to non-biased. I think the Welfare Officer, or anybody for that matter, does this.

In my opinion

You set up this thread to pick at the officers like you have been doing in other threads

joey12

Well our humble president Derek Davis is a true fianna failer, which does bother me because I can't accept that someone who is so much involved in that party can act independently when running the su.

CiaranMT

Sid_Justice wrote: »

...A clear example would be if [an] officer was a staunch supporter of eirigi...

If this ever happened, I'd eat my hat.

Derek Daly is a Fianna Fáiler and would have no problem admitting as much I'd imagine.

Not very up with the new wave of officers that have arrived so I'm not sure where their loyalties (if any) lie.

This is my fourth year here now, however, and I've never once come across any promotion of a political entity by any of the elected officers. Not sure if it's an intentional rule to keep parties out of it or not, but it's something I admire.

I'd imagine, though, that there's enough politics that goes on behind the SU doors without throwing party allegiance on top of it!

CiaranMT

joey12 wrote: »

Well our humble president Derek Davis is a true fianna failer, which does bother me because I can't accept that someone who is so much involved in that party can act independently when running the su.

To give him his dues, he has been, for a number of years now.

MrsStuffings

you're one sarah jade is a member of the socialist youth party

CiaranMT

She wants to give away all our moneyz!!! :pac:

bazkennedy

Ah the annual derek is a fianna failer thread, came early this year. Anyone who knows Derek will tell you that he leaves his political leanings at the door and in his 2 1/2 years in the SU so far has not brought party politics into it. At times he has gone against his own political views because he was mandated to do so by students.

We have this discussion before, its always the same. Find something new to talk about

kflynn

just because some people on this have had the conversation before doesnt mean others cant have it, of you are bored move thread!

Ginge Young

Go mad: http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056141158

Sid_Justice

bazkennedy wrote: »

Ah the annual derek is a fianna failer thread, came early this year. Anyone who knows Derek will tell you that he leaves his political leanings at the door and in his 2 1/2 years in the SU so far has not brought party politics into it. At times he has gone against his own political views because he was mandated to do so by students.

We have this discussion before, its always the same. Find something new to talk about

find another thread to troll, you don't set the agenda here. are you even in UL anymore

freyners

Sid_Justice wrote: »

find another thread to troll, you don't set the agenda here. are you even in UL anymore

in fairness by the way you've been posting here and elsewhere forgive us if we're a little bit skeptical as to your motives. if this is a good faith attempt..fire ahead but alot of people here have seen similar attempts of a thread over our UL lives ending in a thread to bash derek

maybe to start actually calling derek his proper name instead of acting like a 5yr old by calling him derek davis would be a start

Jester252

freyners wrote: »

in fairness by the way you've been posting here and elsewhere forgive us if we're a little bit skeptical as to your motives. if this is a good faith attempt..fire ahead but alot of people here have seen similar attempts of a thread over our UL lives ending in a thread to bash derek

maybe to start actually calling derek his proper name instead of acting like a 5yr old by calling him derek davis would be a start

I just though he was stupid when I saw what he called Daly
:rolleyes:

Sid_Justice

freyners wrote: »

in fairness by the way you've been posting here and elsewhere forgive us if we're a little bit skeptical as to your motives. if this is a good faith attempt..fire ahead but alot of people here have seen similar attempts of a thread over our UL lives ending in a thread to bash derek

maybe to start actually calling derek his proper name instead of acting like a 5yr old by calling him derek davis would be a start

What's with all these back seat moderators?

I've never even met the su president i don't know why you think i'm trying to 'bash him', I'm sure being the su president he doesn't need his cronies making daft allegations online.

Denners.ie

Jester252 wrote: »

I just though he was stupid when I saw what he called Daly
:rolleyes:

No need for the personal abuse, really shows your IQ level when you have to resort to such measures.

Sid I understand how you could have mixed up Daly and Davis.

Maybe we could just refer to Derek Daly as Séan or Mr. Gallagher to help people as he is essentially bred from the same cloth.

not bakunin

Ah, this hoary old chestnut. Yes, our SU is riddled and probably rotten with the influence of the most destructive and sickening elements in Irish politics, it can't be denied.

But that isn't illegal or even a sin.

Some will say it's perfectly possible for such members to continue their work in a non-biased and non-partisan manner, personally I say that is a fairy tale spouted by people who hope their electorate doesn't understand the meaning of ideology or political allegiances.

And that's just the way it is.

freyners

Sid_Justice wrote: »

What's with all these back seat moderators?

I've never even met the su president i don't know why you think i'm trying to 'bash him', I'm sure being the su president he doesn't need his cronies making daft allegations online.

im far from one of is cronies, pals or even acquaintances. I only have talked to the man when he canvassed me for a vote last year

you have been calling him derek davis for a while now..if its a simple mix up i apologise but its very childish otherwise

anyways to answer your original q

I'm just wondering how the current students union stands in terms of party politics. Are they all FF heads or labour heads or wha'?

Just wondering what the principles are for individual politics within the su? Like if an officer was a very strong supporter of a particular party, would they be asked to kinda keep that kind of stuff to themselves or are they allowed to use their influence on the student body as much as they wish.

On the first part I don't have a clue about Tara, Aoife, Paddy, Kelly or Sarah but every man and his dog knows the Daly is an FF'er

From what I've seen it hasn't played a role in his job as welfare/VP. He helped lead (as part of the SU) ULs campaign against fees, separate from the USI campaign (which we aint part of) when FF were trying to reintroduce them. So he kept his party view to himself. AFAIK there hasnt been any issue with his FF membership in his role in the SU while hes been there..open to correction from anyone else here if there has been

Sid_Justice

freyners wrote: »

I don't have a clue

you're right there

freyners

Sid_Justice wrote: »

you're right there

care to elaborate or are you just going to pick one thing out of the post and try and look smart

Sid_Justice

This thread is about party politics of the SU, if you want to talk about yourself get yourself a blog thanks.

Jester252

Denners.ie wrote: »

No need for the personal abuse, really shows your IQ level when you have to resort to such measures.

Sid I understand how you could have mixed up Daly and Davis.

Maybe we could just refer to Derek Daly as Séan or Mr. Gallagher to help people as he is essentially bred from the same cloth.

What with the hate

freyners

Sid_Justice wrote: »

This thread is about party politics of the SU, if you want to talk about yourself get yourself a blog thanks.

ammm where did i talk about myself, the only bit that comes close was caused by you calling me a crony of derek daly.
to which i replied

im far from one of is cronies, pals or even acquaintances. I only have talked to the man when he canvassed me for a vote last year

i then went on engage your question

Sid_Justice wrote:

I'm just wondering how the current students union stands in terms of party politics. Are they all FF heads or labour heads or wha'?

Just wondering what the principles are for individual politics within the su? Like if an officer was a very strong supporter of a particular party, would they be asked to kinda keep that kind of stuff to themselves or are they allowed to use their influence on the student body as much as they wish.

On the first part I don't have a clue about Tara, Aoife, Paddy, Kelly or Sarah but every man and his dog knows the Daly is an FF'er

From what I've seen it hasn't played a role in his job as welfare/VP. He helped lead (as part of the SU) ULs campaign against fees, separate from the USI campaign (which we aint part of) when FF were trying to reintroduce them. So he kept his party view to himself. AFAIK there hasnt been any issue with his FF membership in his role in the SU while hes been there..open to correction from anyone else here if there has been

so wheres your problem, you asked a question..i gave you an answer..thats how boards works
so kindly please stop acting the maggot and actually deal with the content of a post instead of giving little one liners because (i guess) your not getting the response you had hoped for

Sid_Justice

You insinuate that this 'davis' typo was some long running bad joke I tried to propagate. It was a typo from yesterday for heaven's sake. You're deliberately distorting the truth to have a pop at me.

Did the SU president not endorse both Mary davis and Sean gallagher on his facebook?

You went to engage my question by repeating what we all already know and not adding any new content.

In your next post you call me a maggot which further confirms you have no genuine or legitimate interest in this thread but your sole aim is to antagonise me.

Jester252

Sid_Justice wrote: »

Did the SU president not endorse both Mary davis and Sean gallagher on his facebook?

Was this on his personal Facebook?

Sid_Justice

No it was on his official facebook which advertises the fact he's SU president.

ninty9er

Hi all. Derek here. My Facebook is mine personally. Anyone who sees what I post has either added me as a friend or been added as a friend by me. I have personal opinions, which people may or may not be aware of, but they are never made as a Union representative on my personal Facebook profile. The profile happens to say that at the point where someone indicates their wish to add me as a friend.

It's never been a secret that I'm a member of Fianna Fáil, but only once has someone accused me of that influencing my SU roles in 6 years. When they did they retracted fairly fast.

Knock yourselves out having the bashfest.

BTW Ginge Young and bazkennedy are the only 2 people who have commented here that I know well, so others are due apologies.

Sid_Justice

I can see your facebook wall and I am certainly no friend of yours. You've decided, probably for some exhibitionist attention seeking reason to make your voting in the presidential election public.

freyners

Sid_Justice wrote:

You insinuate that this 'davis' typo was some long running bad joke I tried to propagate. It was a typo from yesterday for heaven's sake. You're deliberately distorting the truth to have a pop at me.

right i dealt with this bit here

you have been calling him derek davis for a while now..if its a simple mix up i apologise

again...if it was a simple typo..my bad...i was sure i saw it in other threads..got mixed up.

Did the SU president not endorse both Mary davis and Sean gallagher on his facebook?

sorry genuinely not getting your point here. Can you expand on this a bit?

You went to engage my question by repeating what we all already know and not adding any new content.

and that would be all i can give. Maybe you could have put what you already know in your OP so this could have been avoided. You asked what political allegiances have they..i gave the one we all know.
You asked does it interfere in their work, i gave an example of dereks work that went against his party allegiance and how that would seem to show how he has not let it interfere. I also left myself open to correction if someone had any evidence to the contary.
Was this not what you wanted, unless you were looking for info on the other sabbats in that case maybe you should edit the op to say its not Derek Daly

In your next post you call me a maggot which further confirms you have no genuine or legitimate interest in this thread but your sole aim is to antagonise me.

acting the maggot but lets not get into semantics

in fairness you had been just feeding me little push off one liners. i can understand you might have been the upset at the davis thing but since ive already apologised for this i dont think you can hold that against me...we've all made mistakes

So what exactly are you looking for if not what i just posted

freyners

god dang slow posting made half of that irrelevant anyways:rolleyes:

Sid_Justice

I'm not looking for everything from you I'm trying to ignore your posts but you keep pestering me.

We've established the SU president is a support of FF and FF politics and we can all appreciate that nobody can completely park their ideologies at the door when they go to work.

Moving on from that, I am interested in the political profile of the rest of the sabbatical team.

I am aware that generally speaking, this may not be my business but as they're elected representatives who represent the student body I'd like to know if they are influenced by outside political forces.

It just seems a bit suspicious that the president took time off during a busy week to go bothering people about voting in the presendial election while his colleagues had to stay at home and work.

You'd think that the SU pres would avoid taking personal holidays during term time and try to take them during the term holidays when he has considerably more free time.

Jester252

freyners wrote: »

sorry genuinely not getting your point here. Can you expand on this a bit?

something to do with Daly's party of choice
and from now on anything that sid says

Sid_Justice

Some serious paranoia, bad energy and nasty attitudes emanating from this forum.

These appear to be some of the facts:

Derek Daly is a long time FF supporter, for reasons unknown.
He campaigned on behalf of FF during parts of his (long) SU reign
He took time off from his SU duties to go knock on doors for FF
He made a public statement endorsing his support of Mary Davis (no relation) and Sean Gallagher.
He is anti SF and MMcG.

Is this information I am entitled to know?
Is this information that should be public?

freyners

Sid_Justice wrote:

He took time off from his SU duties to go knock on doors for FF

on this point alone...do you have any evidence to support that...did he miss any meetings, public engagements or miss any deadline by doing that?

If not is it just he used his time off to go knock on doors for FF, bearing in mind he, just like everyone else, is allowed to their time and doesnt work 24/7

shabouwcaw

As Baz said, the annual Derek is in FF thread hit early this year.... *yawn*

Derek Daly is a long time FF supporter, for reasons unknown.
He campaigned on behalf of FF during parts of his (long) SU reign
He took time off from his SU duties to go knock on doors for FF
He made a public statement endorsing his support of Mary Davis (no relation) and Sean Gallagher.
He is anti SF and MMcG.

"for reasons unknown"? I would imagine it is because he feels they represent the closest approximation to his chosen political ideology and made a free choice to join then, that's his perogative. Don't reply with some smart answer about FF's political ideology. Yes, there's corruption and problems in FF, but you can't tar everyone with that.

Secondly, you can campaign for people in your free time. As long as he doesnt campaign for FF while he's in work, that's fine.

Thirdly "he took time off" is the most important bit of that sentence. Again, he's allowed take time off, whether he spends that time canvassing for FF or murdering small animals, that's his choice.

He endorsed Mary Davis? AWFUL. Also, she's hardly FF. quite the opposite. Gallagher is FF-lite and I wouldnt vote for him personally, but meh, it's Dereks facebook, he can talk about voting for whoever he likes. Merely not having his privacy settings set to whatever you think is most appropriate doesnt mean it becomes an SU president facebook.

Lastly, people can be anti whatever political party they want. As long as it doesnt effect his dealings with students that are SF supporters who the hell cares. I'm not that fond of terrorists and murderers myself.


SO IN SUMMATION - No one cares.

/thread.

Delta Kilo

It seems like people are looking for any means to bash the hell out of Derek daly.

Firstly, I agree with freyners, sid its ironic that what you are accusing him of doing is exactly what you are actually doing, from what I can see is he is responding to your ill informed opinions of him and Derek.

Secondly, it's quite common that people in these positions have political aspirations and Derek is no acception to that. Many of todays politicians are former au presidents. Just because the party he is a member of isn't popular at present or is viewed negatively due to the actions of a small number of people who were in power for the last few years doesn't mean that there are no decent members still involved. Derek is entitled to do what he likes outside his role as au president

Im not one of his cronies, I have often been his critic, but I can tell you he does not mix his party with his role as a rep to ul students. There was a stage where personally he was pro fees, yet still campaigned against them because that was the view of ulsu. That is one example that comes to mind.

RE canvassing. When you enter the working world you will find you are entitled to this thing called annual leave. You have so many days and you can take them as you please. They are your days and what you do on them is your business.

His Facebook page is personal and that should be obvious to anyone with something between their ears. Its nobodys business what he puts on it but his own.

The attempted trolling in this thread is way too amateurish for my liking... disappointing in fact... movealong everyone.

Sid_Justice

Did you read my post?

This is my understanding:

SU officers are entitled to annual leave like any other worker.
It would be very reasonable for them to take elective annual leave at times when their jobs aren't busy - during the academic holidays.
Obviously in cases of emergency, bereavement that is different.
SU leave has to be signed off by a superior.
SU pres has no superior so he can take leave when ever he wants.

If the welfare officer wanted to go on a holiday in the middle of a busy su week would the su pres sign off on it? no he absolutely wouldn't. Therefore:

Why is the SU pres taking leave when he wouldn't let a colleague?

PROGRAM_IX

Oh look, more lame Fianna Fáil jokes. This is really scraping the bottom of the barrel in terms of things to bash Derek over. <rolleyes> If you wanted a debate you could have one; he's not shy of it in my experience. Otherwise you're clearly wasting everyone's time.

And I agree with Delta Kilo, if this is a troll thread, it is poor. Poor at best.

Sid_Justice

where are the ff jokes? seriously some people here have a serious problem with visual hallucinations. I don't care if it's FF or FG or Lab.

It's as if it's implied that calling someone a FF supporter is some kind of slur. That has never been stated, I don't know people seem to think that.

Sid_Justice

can someone give me a specific example of Daly-bashing?

It's actually mind boggling. People are getting annoyed about things that don't exist and then call it trolling. Seriously deluded people on this forum, must be something in the water.

PROGRAM_IX

Sid_Justice wrote: »

You've decided, probably for some exhibitionist attention seeking reason to make your voting in the presidential election public.

There's a bit of Daly-bashing. I wasn't talking about you with regard to the FF jokes. You haven't made any in this thread. Believe it or not you're not the only one posting.

Anyway, I think people are calling this a troll thread because there have been a couple of questionably-motivated threads recently that devolved into so much pointless arguing. You were involved in this arguing. I think you were even banned at one point. Understandably, the members are slow to accept a new thread that seems to follow in the same controversial vein.

Sid_Justice

That's an opinion which is very much correlated with reality.

If you take a photo on your mobile phone of your voting ballot and place it on facebook with settings set to public, it is obviously an attention seeking and exhibitionist act. Derek Daly wanted to make it clear to the world and sundry who he was voting for. I appreciate there was some history and context to it, that someone didn't believe he was voting davis over gallagher and he was, so to speak, putting his money where his mouth was.

Therefore this is not bashing, it's merely recording some events in this thread to give shape and structure to the daly caricature.

The unwritten question was " Is derek daly using his position as a SU president to influence UL students"

And the answer is a obvious and proven Yes he is - why else is he posting this stuff on his facebook where he is associated with hundreds of UL students.

I am not judging him for this, I am just stating facts and drawing opinions from them and making it clear when and how I am doing that.

People on this forum need to recognise that not every thread is a troll, not every question about Daly is bashing and understand that I, unlike 90% of the UL population it seems, will not be taken for a fool by the small group of people in this college with power.

There has been no denials, no rebuttals, or explanations from Daly on this other than to say he can use his facebook how he pleases.

Jester252

Sid_Justice wrote: »

The unwritten question was " Is derek daly using his position as a SU president to influence UL students"

And the answer is a obvious and proven Yes he is - why else is he posting this stuff on his facebook where he is associated with hundreds of UL students.

.

Black Helicopters much

Sid_Justice

Are you being deliberately obtuse in an attempt to troll me? There is nothing about my posts that warrant 'conspiracy theory much' slur. I did not quantify nor did I imply the magnitude of Daly's influence on the electorate. I merely stated facts:

daly promoted certain candidates via facebook
his facebook is viewed by 100s of UL students

ergo, daly's comment's influence electorate to some degree, possibly negligible, possibly significantly.

If you have absolutely nothing interesting, intelligent, mindful or relevant to say, please go troll another thread.

PROGRAM_IX

Sid_Justice wrote: »

If you take a photo on your mobile phone of your voting ballot and place it on facebook with settings set to public, it is obviously an attention seeking and exhibitionist act.

Sorry, what?
Even if I'm not a fan of them, Derek Daly, like anyone else, is allowed to have political views. Facebook is generally a place where personal things like political views are aired. Derek does not need our approval to set those views as being publicly available. Any attention he sought would have been wasted on people complaining about the politicians involved. I imagine that the photo in question has a long comment thread below it arguing about who is the lamest politician.

Sid_Justice wrote: »

Therefore this is not bashing, it's merely recording some events in this thread to give shape and structure to the daly caricature.

At best it was sensationalist and aggressively phrased. I'd call it bashing, but whatever.

Sid_Justice wrote: »

The unwritten question was " Is derek daly using his position as a SU president to influence UL students"

I honestly didn't get that from your posts. Perhaps you should have written it. My answer would be no. You said to Jester252 above that he is influencing the electorate - I'd like to see some proof.

Sid_Justice wrote: »

And the answer is a obvious and proven Yes he is - why else is he posting this stuff on his facebook where he is associated with hundreds of UL students.

Derek is in a position to be friends with many UL students, and he's entitled to share what he likes with them. If he makes the shares public, that's entirely his own business. He's comfortable putting his political views out there and I can respect that. There might be more to it, but I doubt highly that he has plans to somehow snare students into some evil web of voting for Fianna Fáil...it would be highly unrealistic for a start.

Sid_Justice wrote: »

I am not judging him for this, I am just stating facts and drawing opinions from them and making it clear when and how I am doing that.

Your tone says JUDGE in capital letters. You make Derek out to be some kind of creepy old man, foisting his political beliefs on a helpless student body. As far as I know, that student body is well able to speak up for itself when it doesn't like something, and as for blindly following a public figure...

Sid_Justice wrote: »

People on this forum need to recognise that not every thread is a troll, not every question about Daly is bashing and understand that I, unlike 90% of the UL population it seems, will not be taken for a fool by the small group of people in this college with power.

People on this forum do recognise that, at least from my on-off experience they do. But suspicion is going to be rife after the heated discussions you've been involved in recently. See above about blindly following a public figure.

Sid_Justice wrote: »

There has been no denials, no rebuttals, or explanations from Daly on this other than to say he can use his facebook how he pleases.

This (from Derek's Boards account) looks like a rebuttal to me. Because in fact, he can use his Facebook as he pleases. He specifies that it's not him as a Union representative, and I remember when I added him as a friend seeing that written clearly on his profile.

ninty9er wrote: »

I have personal opinions, which people may or may not be aware of, but they are never made as a Union representative on my personal Facebook profile. The profile happens to say that at the point where someone indicates their wish to add me as a friend.

That means that the SU President doesn't make those points. Derek Daly does. And outside his job, Derek Daly can do what he likes.

Sid_Justice

PROGRAM_IX wrote: »

=
Derek Daly is allowed to have political views.

This is a truism, please don't post this kind of thing while quoting my posts. It doesn't need to be stated.

Facebook is generally a place where personal things like political views are aired. Derek does not need our approval to set those views as being publicly available. Any attention he sought would have been wasted on people complaining about the politicians involved. I imagine that the photo in question has a long comment thread below it arguing about who is the lamest politician.

Thank you for sharing with us a random assumption you had. It was very beneficial to the discussion.

At best it was sensationalist and aggressively phrased. I'd call it bashing, but whatever

.
No it wasn't, stop projecting.

I honestly didn't get that from your posts. Perhaps you should have written it. My answer would be no. You said to Jester252 above that he is influencing the electorate - I'd like to see some proof.

The great irony being you offer random assumptions and then ask for proof when I present logical explanations. It goes without saying that someone that reads Daly's posts will be influenced by them. Will it effect their voting? That depends on a suite of unknown factors. Probably the most conservative answer will be a small minority who were on the fence about a topic may have been persuaded by Daly.

Derek is in a position to be friends with many UL students, and he's entitled to share what he likes with them.

Thanks for sharing another mindless truism with us.

Your tone says JUDGE in capital letters.

Hi. Look up the word infer in the dictionary.

You make Derek out to be some kind of creepy old man, foisting his political beliefs on a helpless student body. As far as I know, that student body is well able to speak up for itself when it doesn't like something, and as for blindly following a public figure...

No I didn't. Don't lie please.

I said, Daly has not responded other to say he can say what he wants on face book. Then you repeat this. Again, thanks for wasting my time.

CiaranMT

This is very sad at this stage. 3 pages of utter personal crusade waffle.

@Sid, what exactly is at issue here?

Your original points have been addressed.

You seem to have taken offence to any and every other poster here, regardless of their views.

Sid_Justice

I want a wider discussion on the topic presented in the original post. I've had about 2 genuine comments the rest have been the rabble rabble mob looking to leap to Daly's defence.

People, like yourself, seem obsessed with talking about how the topic is discussed not the topic itself.