Are we being played

tails_naf

The more I hear about this Gallagher / Hugh Morgan thing the more I don't like it - but only because it feels like a real hit job.

Consider the facts:
- Came at last minute, in the middle of the debate it was revealed - designed to catch Gallagher on the hop, and it surely did that.

- Consider the source - Martin and Morgan have a life of telling lie after lie, so are only too happy to muddy the facts to make Gallagher look as bad as possible.

- The story has been changing on Morans side - now I don't doubt gallagher was at his house - but the story is not straight on either side - there is doubt over when/how the cheque was delivered, etc.

- Today, right before the moratorium, another revelation that there is CCTV footage (which I haven't actually been able to find online) - designed to be a killer blow that cannot be refuted - as Gallagher cannot defend himself! The timing was not accidental.

That last one is the sucker punch imo - an absolutely dirty tactic which true or not will cause enough doubt to seriously sway people.

This election is being stolen by ruthless people, who cannot win fairly on their own merits.

Hootanany

Who by Fianna Fail

thebman

Doesn't really matter, his immoral business practices are more than enough not to vote for this man.

Making Bertie look honest at this stage.

Should also say he had more than enough time to clean this up if there was no issue. If your telling me he can't address an issue coherently and put it to bed in a day and a half, it is just another reason not to vote for the man.

tails_naf

Hootanany wrote: »

Who by Fianna Fail

If they were the ones with the last minute 'revelations' 5 minutes before the moratorium, then I'd agree with you.

thebman

tails_naf wrote: »

If they were the ones with the last minute 'revelations' 5 minutes before the moratorium, then I'd agree with you.

They are the ones out campaigning for a so called independent though aren't they?

I'm sure they'll won't play up the FF connections if he does win.

tails_naf

thebman wrote: »

They are the ones out campaigning for a so called independent though aren't they?

I'm sure they'll won't play up the FF connections if he does win.

Bottom line - this dirty tactic actually worked - and we're effectively supporting it en masse.

This is like the side-show politics that they have in the US (where I lived and saw it first hand for 2 years) - where all kinds of claims are made about other candidates - more often than not totally false and sensational - and it does work. It has just worked here.

Would you support these kinds of tactics in every election? So we end up voting based on who has the best shock-ad at the last minute?

I abhor what I saw in America, and can't support it getting a foothold here.

Jesus Wept

Nothing in the Morgan story thus far is illegal, Sean just happened to decide to lie about it on live tv.

There are other stories too, such as charging GAA clubs 5k a pop to 'fill out forms' that invariably led to them getting large grants via the then FF government.

He is obviously shoulder deep in the kind of nonsense that is rampant in Irish politics and life, from small towns, local councils and all the way up to the top echelons.

This actually won't bother plenty of people because like Sean, they are so accustomed and ingrained in it that it seems standard and normal.

Thankfully it will bother some people, normal honest people who don't subscribe too 'cute hoorism', commend or reward it.

Ozymandius2011

Note how they haven't revealed the mythical CCTV because it doesn't exist. As an owner of 3 CCTV cameras I know they auto-delete every 7 months. If there was any truth to the story then why wait until the moratorium before announcing it? So that SG wouldn't have time to set the record straight. That forced him to cancel appearances on local radio so he could set the record straight on the national media. It was also revenge for Gallagher's criticism of SF over Jean McConville.

The-Rigger wrote:

Nothing in the Morgan story thus far is illegal, Sean just happened to decide to lie about it on live tv.

Not lie. Just not recollect. For something to be a lie it has to be intentionally wrong.

Tail_Naf wrote:

Bottom line - this dirty tactic actually worked - and we're effectively supporting it en masse.

Are we? I wouldn't be so sure. Notice how no new newspaper polls have been published since Monday. Obviously Dublin 4 feels they have to work on us peasants....

Jesus Wept

Any CCTV is completely irrelevant regardless.

Mr Trade In

If he is elected and there is also a Yes vote for the power to investigate and he is in turn investigated could he be if found guilty be removed from office?

Pepe LeFrits

thebman wrote: »

Doesn't really matter, his immoral business practices are more than enough not to vote for this man.

I would have said his lack of qualifications for the job; but his dishonesty merely means he won't get any preference from me.

Ozymandius2011

Mr Trade In wrote: »

If he is elected and there is also a Yes vote for the power to investigate and he is in turn investigated could he be if found guilty be removed from office?

He has not been accused of illegal activity. To remove a President from office requires a 2/3rds vote in the Dail under the existing constitution. The Inquiries referendum only relates to making findings of fact, and the right of the Oireachtas to enter homes to search for evidence, which it is a criminal offence to resist. It also gives the Oireachtas the right to decide the rights of the accused, including whether they have access to a lawyer....

tails_naf

The-Rigger wrote: »

Any CCTV is completely irrelevant regardless.

Absolutely right -

Except it has powerful negative connotations - it gives a strong sense of something illegal bring captured - SG does not even deny being there, so CCTV does not matter.

- But it will matter greatly in many peoples minds and will sway peoples votes purely because it was brought up - and SF know that and are using it. Horrible stuff really.

thebman

tails_naf wrote: »

Bottom line - this dirty tactic actually worked - and we're effectively supporting it en masse.

This is like the side-show politics that they have in the US (where I lived and saw it first hand for 2 years) - where all kinds of claims are made about other candidates - more often than not totally false and sensational - and it does work. It has just worked here.

Would you support these kinds of tactics in every election? So we end up voting based on who has the best shock-ad at the last minute?

I abhor what I saw in America, and can't support it getting a foothold here.

Is it a dirty tactic? I mean we don't know SF are lying either. Maybe your jumping to conclusions.

What does the man saying he gave SG the envelope or whatever have to gain by lying about it?

Even if he is in SF, why would he lie about it? I'm pretty sure it would be illegal and he could end up in jail over it if he was found out to be lying.

Anyway I think it misses the point of why the incident made SG look bad. It was the Bertie type language of avoiding answering questions about the issue and the fact that he was playing down his role in the FF party until then. That is what really got exposed.

The actual money and whether it was paid over before or after is really quite irrelevant. SG had been misleading people about his role in FF. It won't effect me because I don't really think there is anything wrong with being in FF and I think all the parties have these dodgy fund raising events.

It is just another reason to introduce a blanket ban on corporate donations so we don't have these little grey areas that our political parties seem to like having.

wow sierra

Ozymandius2011 wrote: »

Note how they haven't revealed the mythical CCTV because it doesn't exist. As an owner of 3 CCTV cameras I know they auto-delete every 7 months. If there was any truth to the story then why wait until the moratorium before announcing it? So that SG wouldn't have time to set the record straight. That forced him to cancel appearances on local radio so he could set the record straight on the national media. It was also revenge for Gallagher's criticism of SF over Jean McConville.Not lie. Just not recollect. For something to be a lie it has to be intentionally wrong.Are we? I wouldn't be so sure. Notice how no new newspaper polls have been published since Monday. Obviously Dublin 4 feels they have to work on us peasants....

Sean Gallagher appealed to voters who were disillusioned with Politicians and wanted to vote for an independent. The party most people blame for this said disillusionment is Fianna Fáil. Sean Gallagher is steeped in Fianna Fáil right up to and including helping out with this fundraiser. That is the issue. It doesn't matter a flying f**k what the precise chronology of the cheque issue is.

The facts about Sean Gallagher's lack of suitability for the Presidency have been in the public domain before the debate. His dodgy business dealings, his lack of political experience, his lying about his past - down to the fact that he didn't in fact buy a farm at a young age - his Daddy bought it.

The electorate is obviously so slow on the uptake that it necessitated a big TV moment to explain it to them. And Thank God it seems to have finally worked.

Ozymandius2011

wow sierra wrote: »

Sean Gallagher appealed to voters who were disillusioned with Politicians and wanted to vote for an independent. The party most people blame for this said disillusionment is Fianna Fáil. Sean Gallagher is steeped in Fianna Fáil right up to and including helping out with this fundraiser. That is the issue. It doesn't matter a flying f**k what the precise chronology of the cheque issue is.

The facts about Sean Gallagher's lack of suitability for the Presidency have been in the public domain before the debate. His dodgy business dealings, his lack of political experience, his lying about his past - down to the fact that he didn't in fact buy a farm at a young age - his Daddy bought it.

The electorate is obviously so slow on the uptake that it necessitated a big TV moment to explain it to them. And Thank God it seems to have finally worked.

You can't say someone's business dealings are "dodgy" witthout evidence. Innuendo is not enough. The fundraising allegations from McGuinness stem from 3 yrs ago before the recession and are contradictory. The €800,000 withdrawn from a company was to pay that company's rental costs.

tails_naf

thebman wrote: »

Is it a dirty tactic? I mean we don't know SF are lying either. Maybe your jumping to conclusions.

Maybe - but the timing smacks of something that is untrue, as it cannot be refuted at 1:50pm the day before an election. The timing gives me a sense this is more false than true.

What does the man saying he gave SG the envelope or whatever have to gain by lying about it?

You're kidding right? He's helping out Martin. Very closely linked to him and you make out its not in his interest to do this? Come on...

The story has already changed vs when the cheque was picked up..so there have been doubts over Morgan's honesty

Even if he is in SF, why would he lie about it? I'm pretty sure it would be illegal and he could end up in jail over it if he was found out to be lying.

I doubt he could be jailed. I have CCTV footage - oh sorry it was deleted - but I had it, I swear. What are you going to jail him on - being crap with his security camera tapes? Bad timing? He knows he'll get away with it - it's not like he has a name for honesty himself!!!

Jesus Wept

Ozymandius2011 wrote: »

.Not lie. Just not recollect. For something to be a lie it has to be intentionally wrong.

Ok, firstly there is obviously a difference between genuinely not being able to recollect and stating that you can't recollect even though you can.

Now even if I choose to give him the benefit of the doubt on this, the fact that he genuinely can't recall whether or not someone he barely knows gives him a cheque for 5 grand illustrates to me that it is obviously not a remotely untypical situation for him.

Secondly, did you see the Six-One news interview between him and Bryan Dobson on Tuesday. He clearly stated that he had informed the man that a donation of upto 5k was expected/the norm/etc. His campaign secretary type person had put out a statement saying that he had 'never solicited a donation.'
He was on both sides of the coin at different times of the week, obviously he is lying one time.

It's worth watching this, he has had all night and day to straighten out a version of his story and still fails.

http://www.rte.ie/player/#!v=1118728
20:50 mins in.

As stated, the fundraiser in question is not illegal but it ought to be, it's entirely immoral, the direct link between business and government in this country is sickening and something Sean wanted to keep out of people's minds.

Ozymandius2011

The-Rigger wrote: »

Ok, firstly there is obviously a difference between genuinely not being able to recollect and stating that you can't recollect even though you can.

Now even if I choose to give him the benefit of the doubt on this, the fact that he genuinely can't recall whether or not someone he barely knows gives him a cheque for 5 grand illustrates to me that it is obviously not a remotely untypical situation for him.

Secondly, did you see the Six-One news interview between him and Bryan Dobson on Tuesday. He clearly stated that he had informed the man that a donation of upto 5k was expected/the norm/etc. His campaign secretary type person had put out a statement saying that he had 'never solicited a donation.'

It's worth watching this, he has had all night and day to straighten out a version of his story and still fails.

http://www.rte.ie/player/#!v=1118728
20:50 mins in.

As stated, the fundraiser in question is not illegal but it ought to be, it's entirely immoral, the direct link between business and government in this country is sickening and something Sean wanted to keep out of people's minds.

I think it comes down to the semantics of whether or not an invitation is a "solicitation". For example if you invite someone along and tell them they "may" make a donation - does that count as a solicitation?

BQQ

Ozymandius2011 wrote: »

He has not been accused of illegal activity. To remove a President from office requires a 2/3rds vote in the Dail under the existing constitution. The Inquiries referendum only relates to making findings of fact, and the right of the Oireachtas to enter homes to search for evidence, which it is a criminal offence to resist. It also gives the Oireachtas the right to decide the rights of the accused, including whether they have access to a lawyer....

Breach of company law regarding the money resting in his account carries penalty of up to 5 years in the slammer.
Plenty more dodgy deals coming out of the woodwork now. V Browne wanted to grill him on another dodgy loan last night, but Seanie ran a mile.

Ozymandius2011

BQQ wrote: »

Breach of company law regarding the money resting in his account carries penalty of up to 5 years in the slammer.
Plenty more dodgy deals coming out of the woodwork now. V Browne wanted to grill him on another dodgy loan last night, but Seanie ran a mile.

He explained that the cheque was sent by someone else to the wrong account by mistake and it was rectified when the accountants informed him.

MrsStuffings

fianna fail cumann members actually called to my house tonight campaigning for gallagher.

independent my bollox.

If he wins I will be absolutely gutted, i'd even take Norris as president at this stage.

BQQ

Ozymandius2011 wrote: »

He explained that the cheque was sent by someone else to the wrong account by mistake and it was rectified when the accountants informed him.

He said on Frontline the wrong account was on the cheque. Then he said the wrong company name was on the cheque. Ridiculous stuff.

Who's paying €83,000 for motivational speaking anyway? That's some serious motivating

Ozymandius2011

BQQ wrote: »

He said on Frontline the wrong account was on the cheque. Then he said the wrong company name was on the cheque. Ridiculous stuff.

Who's paying €83,000 for motivational speaking anyway? That's some serious motivating

Different companies having different accounts is not exactly surprising.

I understand that the mainstream Left regard most wealthy businessmen who enter politics as 'evil capitalists' who can only have gotten where they are by pulling fast ones so I will put it down to that.

thebman

tails_naf wrote: »

You're kidding right? He's helping out Martin. Very closely linked to him and you make out its not in his interest to do this? Come on...

The story has already changed vs when the cheque was picked up..so there have been doubts over Morgan's honesty

What exactly is his relationship with MM so if you know they are close to each other?

I mean we don't know anything that the guy personally stands to gain from this. Do you think he is just doing it because he is SF? I mean that sounds a little crazy to me TBH.

If a mate asked me to do a favor and lie for him about something to the nation, I wouldn't do it even if they were my friend.

LordSutch

Listen up, did you know that Martin McGuinness was in the Provisional IRA, one of the most ruthless terrorist organisations to ever exist in Europe, McGuinness even admits that he was a Provo, which by association makes him part of that machine (something he openly admits), for they murdered in Northern Ireland & in Britain, they murdered in the Republic too! they made people 'disappear', they planted bombes in busses, pubs, shopping centres, they planted bombs under cars, they shot people at point blank range, they specialised in knee cappings, booby traps, and all manner of torture. So that's Martins background 'pre peace process'.

Now lets take Sean Gallagher, who may indeed have been involved in a Fianna Fail fund raiser, & who may or may not have collected a cheque? :eek:

Need I tell you who I would choose to be our president from the two of them :cool:

jprender

LordSutch wrote: »

Need I tell you who I would choose to be our president from the two of them )

Neither ?

eastbono

MrsStuffings wrote: »

fianna fail cumann members actually called to my house tonight campaigning for gallagher.

independent my bollox.

If he wins I will be absolutely gutted, i'd even take Norris as president at this stage.

Lucky you. You are one of the very few being canvassed for a vote at your door for the election.

gizmo555

Ozymandius2011 wrote: »

I think it comes down to the semantics of whether or not an invitation is a "solicitation". For example if you invite someone along and tell them they "may" make a donation - does that count as a solicitation?

Well Mr Gallagher thinks so:

Dobson: was that not soliciting a donation?

Gallagher: well it could be

irishdude11

I have to laugh at the people complaining about how 'unfair' SFs attack is on Gallagher. Sure Gallagher is up to his neck in dodgy dealings, he has made a small fortune off the backs of the taxpayers through his FF connections. Charging 5K to local amateur GAA clubs so he can make sure their grant application works out...creaming 700K in grants off enterprise ireland while his business was going down the tubes and in the process drawing down huge sums of (taxpayers) money out of it before it went bust.

Gallagher is a slimeball steeped in FF corruption and he had it coming. He is lying through his teeth, he was found out on the debate. Fair play to MMG for showing this spoofer up for the FF bagman that he is.

irishdude11

I have to laugh at the people complaining about how 'unfair' SFs attack is on Gallagher. Sure Gallagher is up to his neck in dodgy dealings, he has made a small fortune off the backs of the taxpayers through his FF connections. Charging 5K to local amateur GAA clubs so he can make sure their grant application works out...creaming 700K in grants off enterprise ireland while his business was going down the tubes and in the process drawing down huge sums of (taxpayers) money out of it before it went bust.

Gallagher is a slimeball steeped in FF corruption and he had it coming. He is lying through his teeth, he was found out on the debate. Fair play to MMG for showing this spoofer up for the FF bagman that he is.

LordSutch

And McGuinness is is what :rolleyes:

wow sierra

LordSutch wrote: »

And McGuinness is is what :rolleyes:

There are 7 candidates. This isn't a question of who is better McGuinness or Gallagher. It is whether Gallagher is connected with Fianna Fáil despite getting all his popularity by not being a politician, and that he lied about it.

People know who McGuinness is - FFS people know more about Arthur Morgan than Gallagher. So much for not wanting negative campaigning:rolleyes:

Snakeblood

LordSutch wrote: »

And McGuinness is is what :rolleyes:

Not the only alternative to a corrupt liar?

Liam Byrne

Mr Trade In wrote: »

If he is elected and there is also a Yes vote for the power to investigate and he is in turn investigated could he be if found guilty be removed from office?

Given the "up every tree" approach by his former party leader and the mess made of "investigating" Callelly, I wouldn't hold my breath.

RonMexico

I've been banned from his facebook page for questioning him. I'll never vote for a person that endorses censorship.

oppenheimer1

Mr Trade In wrote: »

If he is elected and there is also a Yes vote for the power to investigate and he is in turn investigated could he be if found guilty be removed from office?

Investigate him for what? Fundraising for a party? Last time I checked that wasn't illegal. Actually such posts as yours highlight the dangers of the referendum if it passes. The government ("Oireachtas" )will have the right to conduct McCarthyite tribunals into whomever it feels.

Would you be really comfortable with that precedent?

oppenheimer1

Snakeblood wrote: »

Not the only alternative to a corrupt liar?

i have yet to see evidence of this corruption. Or does involvement with the FF party now automatically equate with corruption? Because that simply isn't true.

If you have evidence pf corruptionlets see it, otherwise its defamation.

thebman

oppenheimer1 wrote: »

i have yet to see evidence of this corruption. Or does involvement with the FF party now automatically equate with corruption?

Because that simply isn't true.

Some of what he has been up to in his businesses is shady at best to be fair.

The FF links aren't anything serious other than it shows him up for having tried to make out he was less involved in the party than he was.

Nothing really wrong with being in FF, there is something wrong with saying you have left and weren't really heavily involved when you were bloody fund raising...

I think a lot of people miss the point on that and do think it is solely the fact that he was accepting donations for FF though which really isn't the issue. All the parties get money in envelopes, we need to ban that and hopefully this issue during this campaign will highlight enough that people push for it to be banned.

Bristolian

irishdude11 wrote: »

I have to laugh at the people complaining about how 'unfair' SFs attack is on Gallagher. Sure Gallagher is up to his neck in dodgy dealings, he has made a small fortune off the backs of the taxpayers through his FF connections. Charging 5K to local amateur GAA clubs so he can make sure their grant application works out...creaming 700K in grants off enterprise ireland while his business was going down the tubes and in the process drawing down huge sums of (taxpayers) money out of it before it went bust.

Gallagher is a slimeball steeped in FF corruption and he had it coming. He is lying through his teeth, he was found out on the debate. Fair play to MMG for showing this spoofer up for the FF bagman that he is.

No one has pinned an illegal act on Sean. He is a good man who is a fairly typical Irish businessman and has been involved in some wheeling and dealing but nothing illegal. His big sin in the eyes of the D4 media and the liberal elite is that he once a member of Fianna Fail.

McGuiness and Sinn Fein/IRA are a different story altogether. What they have done since 1969 when they hijacked the peaceful, and likely to be successful, civil rights campaign is appalling, disgusting and unforgivable. They have dragged this country through the mud and held back our progress as a nation. They are two faced, smug bullies and what they have done to Gallagher is typical of what they do to people who dare to question them.

Sinn Fein are a real threat to our future democracy and the civil rights we enjoy in this country. We will bring ourselves a whole world of trouble if we let them get any real power. They compare themselves with Collins, De Valera and other patriots. But those heroes of our past did not kill babies or innocent civilians indiscriminately.

The first thing we can do to stop the Sinn Fein rot is to vote Gallagher today.

RachaelVO

I'm reading all this stuff about SG, and in a much as he was never top of my list (1,2 or 3) I don't see anything we didn't already know.

He was an FFer
He had a company loan from one of his companies and it was too much, which he rectified, within 6 weeks of finding out!
He raised money for FF, which he was a member of!
So he collected cheques personally, they weren't made out to him!

In as much as I'm not a fan, I have to say, the mud slinging going on about him is not news!

He's not right for the job IMO, but that's my choice and no one elses.
I am kinda feeling sorry for him, I don't actually see that he has really done anything so very wrong.

I'm still not a fan of his, but I think he's getting hung out to dry!

oppenheimer1

thebman wrote: »

Some of what he has been up to in his businesses is shady at best to be fair.

The FF links aren't anything serious other than it shows him up for having tried to make out he was less involved in the party than he was.

Nothing really wrong with being in FF, there is something wrong with saying you have left and weren't really heavily involved when you were bloody fund raising...

I think a lot of people miss the point on that and do think it is solely the fact that he was accepting donations for FF though which really isn't the issue. All the parties get money in envelopes, we need to ban that and hopefully this issue during this campaign will highlight enough that people push for it to be banned.

Shady business practices? Are we talking about the "loan" here? That was explained. That said you'd be hard pushed to find a single SME that has always fully complied with tax and corporate governance legislation. The reality is that in business shortcuts are often taken and mistakes are regularly made.

Should an error that was rectified as soon as it was noticed really be held against someone?

Peanut

OP I agree that the attack on Gallagher was ruthless and exaggerated.

The problem for Gallagher is that even just considering what he agreed was correct, it contradicts his previous claims of non-partisanship and seriously damages his integrity.

MazG

RachaelVO wrote: »

I'm reading all this stuff about SG, and in a much as he was never top of my list (1,2 or 3) I don't see anything we didn't already know.

He was an FFer
He had a company loan from one of his companies and it was too much, which he rectified, within 6 weeks of finding out!
He raised money for FF, which he was a member of!
So he collected cheques personally, they weren't made out to him!

In as much as I'm not a fan, I have to say, the mud slinging going on about him is not news!

He's not right for the job IMO, but that's my choice and no one elses.
I am kinda feeling sorry for him, I don't actually see that he has really done anything so very wrong.

I'm still not a fan of his, but I think he's getting hung out to dry!

But Rachel, most of the objections are not that he was a member of FF or even that he was a fundraiser for FF but that he tried to hide it. He stated that he was not active within FF after 2009. Untrue. He stated that he never solicitated money for FF. Untrue. He stated that the only FF fundraiser he had ever been involved in was the one in 2008. Untrue.

Getting hung out to dry is a risk you take when you run for public office. Voters and media will ask questions about your past and will be unimpressed if you try to present yourself as one thing and it transpires to be a deception.

brownswiss

Mr Trade In wrote: »

If he is elected and there is also a Yes vote for the power to investigate and he is in turn investigated could he be if found guilty be removed from office?

...

Wonder what odds one would get on Impeachment of Gallagher in a few months time. ?

cardwizzard

Bristolian wrote: »

No one has pinned an illegal act on Sean. He is a good man who is a fairly typical Irish businessman and has been involved in some wheeling and dealing but nothing illegal. His big sin in the eyes of the D4 media and the liberal elite is that he once a member of Fianna Fail.

McGuiness and Sinn Fein/IRA are a different story altogether. What they have done since 1969 when they hijacked the peaceful, and likely to be successful, civil rights campaign is appalling, disgusting and unforgivable. They have dragged this country through the mud and held back our progress as a nation. They are two faced, smug bullies and what they have done to Gallagher is typical of what they do to people who dare to question them.

Sinn Fein are a real threat to our future democracy and the civil rights we enjoy in this country. We will bring ourselves a whole world of trouble if we let them get any real power. They compare themselves with Collins, De Valera and other patriots. But those heroes of our past did not kill babies or innocent civilians indiscriminately.

The first thing we can do to stop the Sinn Fein rot is to vote Gallagher today.

I think a lot of people would disagree with that.How exactly is going to a civil rights march, and being shot at indiscriminately, peaceful?

What ever your views on SF, don't try and rewrite history.

oppenheimer1

cardwizzard wrote: »

I think a lot of people would disagree with that.How exactly is going to a civil rights march, and being shot at indiscriminately, peaceful?

What ever your views on SF, don't try and rewrite history.

And you don't try and rewrite his post. The civil rights movement was peaceful ant they had violence perpetrated against them.

The IRA used Bloody Sunday as a recruiting tool for their aims, which were totally different to those of the Civil Rights movement, which was primarily about fairness not republicanism.

wow sierra

RachaelVO wrote: »

I'm reading all this stuff about SG, and in a much as he was never top of my list (1,2 or 3) I don't see anything we didn't already know.

He was an FFer
He had a company loan from one of his companies and it was too much, which he rectified, within 6 weeks of finding out!
He raised money for FF, which he was a member of!
So he collected cheques personally, they weren't made out to him!

In as much as I'm not a fan, I have to say, the mud slinging going on about him is not news!

He's not right for the job IMO, but that's my choice and no one elses.
I am kinda feeling sorry for him, I don't actually see that he has really done anything so very wrong.

I'm still not a fan of his, but I think he's getting hung out to dry!

For me its a reaction to his 40% poll rating - for a total unknown I found this beyond belief. So I looked up his website to see what he had done. Subsequently most of it turned out to be exaggerated at best. The only explanation for his popularity I could find was his age, his celebrity status from Dragons Den, his brilliance in business and the fact that he wasn't associated with a political party. All the negative points on these threads relate to exposing the fact that he was very much associated with a political party, his brilliance in business was helped my many state grants and was exaggerated anyway, and most importantly he either concealed all this or lied about it.

This leaves only his age and his celebrity status and I think that isn't enough to qualify him as president.

cardwizzard

oppenheimer1 wrote: »

And you don't try and rewrite his post. The civil rights movement was peaceful ant they had violence perpetrated against them.

The IRA used Bloody Sunday as a recruiting tool for their aims, which were totally different to those of the Civil Rights movement, which was primarily about fairness not republicanism.

Rewrite his post? Please explain how I tried that. I posted the whole lot of it!!

Of course the civil rights movement was peaceful. How fair is it to shoot into a crowd?.

The IRA didn't need to recruit anybody, people in Derry lined up around the corner to join.

Jimoslimos

Was it a dirty tactic by SF?
Yes

Would SF have done it to any other candidates if they could?
Probably - although Gallagher was probably seen as the best opportunity to snatch some extra votes. Dana and Davis were polling too low, Mitchell and Norris voters wouldn't transfer to McGuinness.

For me the cheque is a trivial issue, but I'm glad it was brought to light because its cast light on the other seamy side of his business dealings. Most of all its the hypocrisy I abhor. Gallagher using the 'job creation' angle, the community man (whilst taking money for form filling). I have every sympathy with businesses up and down the country who are struggling/had to make cuts to try and survive - those are the true entrepeneurs, the ones without the massive backhanders and shady dealings.

irishdude11

RachaelVO wrote: »

I'm reading all this stuff about SG, and in a much as he was never top of my list (1,2 or 3) I don't see anything we didn't already know.

He was an FFer
He had a company loan from one of his companies and it was too much, which he rectified, within 6 weeks of finding out!
He raised money for FF, which he was a member of!
So he collected cheques personally, they weren't made out to him!

In as much as I'm not a fan, I have to say, the mud slinging going on about him is not news!

He's not right for the job IMO, but that's my choice and no one elses.
I am kinda feeling sorry for him, I don't actually see that he has really done anything so very wrong.

I'm still not a fan of his, but I think he's getting hung out to dry!

Sure no-one is guilty of anything in this country. Look at Bertie and Biffo and whole host of other chancers down the years. Look at the bankers and developers who have been in on the golden circle act with the politicians since Haughey's time. The stuff these FF slimeballs and their mates get up to should be illegal but it isn't, because they make the laws.

Anyway the issue is not that Gallagher did anything illegal, sure how could he when nothing is illegal in this country, especially if you are FF and you are a good spoofer. Its that he has been coming out with lie after lie after lie. Everything about him is spoof. His whole background is massively exaggerated, he is a failed businessman who ran a business that was only viable for a couple of years due to a massive property bubble. It was also viable because he was getting nearly 1 million in grants (taxpayers money) off his buddies in Enterprise Ireland. Which came in handy when himself and the other director raided the coffers as the business was going down the tubes.

I dont know why he felt the need to do that when he was able to charge amateur community organisations 5K to fill out forms for them. The neck on him charging the GAA clubs that kind of money. That is exactly what is wrong with this country, the brown envelope culture, and it goes all the way to the top. It takes alot of effort to fundraise 5K and then a spoofer like Gallagher comes along and pockets it for doing f*ck all, apart from pulling a few strings with FF. I really wish the GAA scandal was put to him during the debate. All his waffle about his community work and then we find out what he is really up to - let the community to do the hard work and then Gallagher will come along and charge them a massive fee to hand in an application form an make sure it gets seen by the right people. Typical FF sh*te that has the country ruined.