I don't understand why people are supporting Martin McGuinness

dublin_1990

He has admitted his involvement in the IRA. So therefore he has admitted to killing innocent civilians; Men, Women and CHILDREN. I don't care if he says he joined because of the troubles in Derry and it was the fight against the British forces it does not excuse the fact that he was part of an organisation that took the lives away of perfectly innocent people and destroyed the lives of many more. I really don't understand how people can ignore all this and say he wants to do good for Ireland now. A little too late if you ask me. We cannot ignore what he did just because it was long ago. If a convicted murderer or rapist claimed to have changed their ways I would not be voting for them.
The bottom line is he was part of an organisation that killed innocent civilians and this was even before 1974 which is when he claimed to have left.

Sunnyisland

dublin_1990 wrote: »

A little too late if you ask me.

Just like your post.





Welcome to boards.ie

thebman

I don't think most people care about him, they just like how he destroyed SG campaign, doesn't mean they'll vote for him. Just happy he exposed some of the issues SG has been trying to hide under the carpet throughout his campaign.

ColeTrain

I can understand why he joined the IRA. It's not hard.

roy rodgers

he's a criminal

I'll back still up in the morning mod, as my interweb is gone dead for tonight

10green bottles

roy rodgers wrote: »

he's a criminal and a racist

??? Help me out here !

Dr Galen

roy rodgers wrote: »

User has edited his post as requested, so only fair that this quote is edited too

What?

You think that's ok?

Back it up, withdraw it or action will be taken.


Cheers

DrG

Bergkamp 10

roy rodgers wrote: »

he's a criminal and a racist

Here we go, the 3rd time you've posted the race claim tonight. What is behind it?

I assume you mean British people, you couldnt be more wrong and you need to learn what racism is like so many of your chums.

Liam Byrne

Given that so many IRA atrocities were indiscriminate bombings which murdered random innocents, plus the fact that McG views everyone in NI as Irish, I don't think "racist" is an appropriate description.

Sectarian doesn't even cover it, since the IRA murdered at least as many innocent catholics as other religions.

Bergkamp 10

dublin_1990 wrote: »

He has admitted his involvement in the IRA. So therefore he has admitted to killing innocent civilians; Men, Women and CHILDREN.

No it doesnt. Anyway if you were born in 1990 you wouldnt know alot about what happened back then, especially if you are from Dublin.

It was a different world further north. But McGuinness has never been convicted of any "murder".

Anyway all this crap about murder. It was a flipping war for feck sake. The British murdered many innocent men women and children.

I heard about a talk recently from a famous speaker, about how he considered joining the IRA when British soldiers broke into his house and made him watch as they broke both his mothers knees.

He didnt join though but resonated with any who did. What would you do then Mr Know it all, on your first post? Probably some Labour TDs son by the timing.

Its easy to talk on the internet about baseless claims about others. Walk a mile in their shoes and see how you would feel about it.

charlemont

roy rodgers wrote: »

he's a criminal and a racist

Ha Ha Ha, Where did you pull that one out of ? No wait, You just made that up.

Killer Pigeon

Certain people might consider him a criminal by virtue of the fact that he was second in command of an illegal organisation (fact) that was involved in terrorism and general criminality (fact).

I don't know how he would be considered a racist though.

RubyRoss

It seems to me that the OP is really saying 'I don't understand why other people don't think like me' which is not something this thread can resolve.

The legitimacy of McGuinness as a candidate/possible president is far more complex than you suggest and most of these issues have been trashed out already.

Nevertheless, I offer too, short and undoubtedly contestable, reasons why anti-McGuinness arguments are flawed:
From a British perspective, many of our nationalist heroes - the people we name streets after - were guilty of treason and terrorists so 'being a member of the IRA' is an awkward grounds for his dismissal.

From a contemporary perspective, Northern Ireland was the region torn assunder by the Troubles but if the South openly backed power-sharing between Sinn-Fein and the DUP as a positive peace, then it is deeply hypocritical to maintain MCGuinness is not fit for a Southern office.

These points do not translate into positive reasons for voting MCGuinness but I think they call for a questioning of extreme anti-McGuinness positions.

Personally, I think the structure of the peace process was deeply flawed precisely because we put power in the hand of the extremist minorities but that is what the Irish Republic and British government openly endorsed. Dissenters were deemed war loving crazies. In our hardly very significant presidential election, some people seem to have reassessed their standards.

Oh_Noes

Killer Pigeon wrote: »

Certain people might consider him a criminal by virtue of the fact that he was second in command of an illegal organisation (fact) that was involved in terrorism and general criminality (fact).

Same go for Dev, Collins et al?

Bergkamp 10

The candidate supporters must have a easy day with the blackout tomorrow. Time to sign onto boards.ie for the day and blacken others names with lies!

Joined in February election time but made no post? It must be a late night in the Labour/Fianna Gael offices. Or maybe some Fianna Failer wants his say.

drunkmonkey

Liam Byrne wrote: »

Sectarian doesn't even cover it, since the IRA murdered at least as many innocent catholics as other religions.

Seriously? Murdered innocent catholics even more than any other religion? Are you sure you don't mean the UDA/UVF?

Killer Pigeon

Oh_Noes wrote: »

Same go for Dev, Collins et al?

Dev or Collins didn't plant bombs in civilian areas.

Bullseye1

I cannot understand why some people cannot understand why some people support MMcG. He and his party filled a void in people's lives in the north because the Irish up there were abandoned by the government down here. That's not to say I agree with the killing of innocent civilians on both sides up there.

10green bottles

I have a huge penis(fact) . My wife disagree's Pigeon :pac: But because i said "fact" in my post must make it true, right ?? :rolleyes: Jepper's all these true fact's have me worried !!

ColeTrain

Bergkamp 10 wrote: »

The candidate supporters must have a easy day with the blackout tomorrow. Time to sign onto boards.ie for the day and blacken others names with lies!

Joined in February election time but made no post? It must be a late night in the Labour/Fianna Gael offices. Or maybe some Fianna Failer wants his say.

Someones not doing their job properly. They should have spread out a few posts in a few forums to go under the radar..

Bergkamp 10

Killer Pigeon wrote: »

Certain people might consider him a criminal by virtue of the fact that he was second in command of an illegal organisation (fact) that was involved in terrorism and general criminality (fact).

I don't know how he would be considered a racist though.

Hundreds of British soldiers committed alot worse crimes than McGuinness.

Where is/was the hunt for their convictions?

Hypocrisy astounding on here. You cant call McGuinness a terrorist and wear a poppy for example unless you are a complete hypocrite and liar. Many in this country do however!

ColeTrain

Killer Pigeon wrote: »

Dev or Collins didn't plant bombs in civilian areas.

I'd imagine that would have been trickier to do back then.

Bullseye1

Killer Pigeon wrote: »

Dev or Collins didn't plant bombs in civilian areas.

They were still responsible for deaths during those times and during the civil war.

drunkmonkey

Bergkamp 10 wrote: »

Joined in February election time but made no post?

WooWoo!! Gallagher Bot Alert!!

Bergkamp 10

Killer Pigeon wrote: »

Dev or Collins didn't plant bombs in civilian areas.

They murdered/killed innocent people. Yet Collins has his photo above Kennys head in the government buildings.

They would have been involved in alot more bloodshed then McGuinness individually anyway.

I suppose if McGuinnes was from the South it might be different views told by some.

Killer Pigeon

10green bottles wrote: »

I have a huge penis(fact) . My wife disagree's Pigeon :pac: But because i said "fact" in my post must make it true right ?? :rolleyes: Jepper's all these true fact's have me worried !!

He's admitted that he was a member of the PIRA. His membership of the PIRA is well published, he has never denied it, neither has he denied being second in command of the PIRA.

The contention here lies with whether you regard the PIRA as a criminal organisation or not.

maccored

Killer Pigeon wrote: »

Dev or Collins didn't plant bombs in civilian areas.

If Collins had the technology then are you saying he wouldnt have used them? He even ran his own version of Night of the Long Knives.

Joey the lips

tbh i cannot understand why people are not supporting martin mc G

but lets face it. We all know he wont get in. This is just a plan for greater publicity and tbh its working for him

maccored

Killer Pigeon wrote: »

He's admitted that he was a member of the PIRA. His membership of the PIRA is well published, he has never denied it, neither has he denied being second in command of the PIRA.

The contention here lies with whether you regard the PIRA as a criminal organisation or not.

They were a proscribed organisation, but they've disbanded so what's the relevance? If they were going to arrest mmg they should have done it before he got the deputy first minister job wouldn't you think?

charlemont

Killer Pigeon wrote: »

Certain people might consider him a criminal by virtue of the fact that he was second in command of an illegal organisation (fact) that was involved in terrorism and general criminality (fact).

I don't know how he would be considered a racist though.

Racist is just thrown in there to smear, Anyone who's any way different or does not fall in line with the system in Ireland gets the usual, Socialist, Communist, Fascist, Drug user, Boy Racer treatment.

Bergkamp 10

Joey the lips wrote: »

tbh i cannot understand why people are not supporting martin mc G

but lets face it. We all know he wont get in. This is just a plan for greater publicity and tbh its working for him

The one thing I dont understand though is why would Mcguinness go through this sort of thing if he wasnt becoming president.

He has gained very little by not winning.

Killer Pigeon

Bergkamp 10 wrote: »

Hundreds of British soldiers committed alot worse crimes than McGuinness.

Where is/was the hunt for their convictions?

Hypocrisy astounding on here. You cant call McGuinness a terrorist and wear a poppy for example unless you are a complete hypocrite and liar. Many in this country do however!

What do you mean hypocrite? I'm not denying that the British army have been in the wrong. I'm just as critical of the BA, or even more, than I am of McGuinness. It doesn't take away from the fact that what McGuinness did was criminal.

Bergkamp 10

Killer Pigeon wrote: »

What do you mean hypocrite? I'm not denying that the British army have been in the wrong. I'm just as critical of the BA, or even more, than I am of McGuinness. It doesn't take away from the fact that what McGuinness did was criminal.

What did he do personally do?

Did he kill people and if so, why after all these years and all his enemies hasnt he been put away?

Maybe because there was no proof?

Bullseye1

Whatever you think about the man he is a clever politician. With FF not running a candidate and having seen their support contract, SF are looking to become the largest Republican party in the South. This presidency race is pushing them further into the spotlight and into people's thoughts on voting for them in the future. SF have a long term plan, they are very patient and you could see them in power in within the next three governments. They understand that if their aspersions of a 32 county Ireland is to exist they need the support of the south.

maccored

Killer Pigeon wrote: »

What do you mean hypocrite? I'm not denying that the British army have been in the wrong. I'm just as critical of the BA, or even more, than I am of McGuinness. It doesn't take away from the fact that what McGuinness did was criminal.

If you are as critical of every conflict theres ever been, then I say more power to you.

But if you view this conflict in the north differently than the civil war, the french revolution or any other war/conflict where murder is looked at in consideration of the conditions and environment, then you are indeed being hypocritical.

Mr Trade In

Bergkamp 10 wrote: »

The one thing I dont understand though is why would Mcguinness go through this sort of thing if he wasnt becoming president.

He has gained very little by not winning.

He has all but put a stop to the wolf in Fianna Failure clothing from getting to the Aras, that is a win in my book.

Liam Byrne

Joey the lips wrote: »

tbh i cannot understand why people are not supporting martin mc G

but lets face it. We all know he wont get in. This is just a plan for greater publicity and tbh its working for him

Given that last night's publicity included refusing to call the murder of Jean McConville a murder, he'd be better off without the publicity.

Bullseye1

Didn't he say that "Ms McConvilles family may consider her death a murder and who am I to disagree" or something along those lines.

drunkmonkey

Liam Byrne wrote: »

Given that last night's publicity included refusing to call the murder of Jean McConville a murder, he'd be better off without the publicity.

How can he call it a Murder? He can't, not when you take it in the context he sees it from. He said he regretted it happened along with the whole troubles.

Liam Byrne

drunkmonkey wrote: »

Liam Byrne wrote: »

Given that last night's publicity included refusing to call the murder of Jean McConville a murder, he'd be better off without the publicity.

How can he call it a Murder? He can't, not when you take it in the context he sees it from. He said he regretted it happened along with the whole troubles.

My point is that he's unable to call a murder a murder.

The fact that he can't is the reason he's unacceptable.

Liam Byrne

Bullseye1 wrote: »

Didn't he say that "Ms McConvilles family may consider her death a murder and who am I to disagree" or something along those lines.

Yup. Weasel words. "who am I to disagree" is a rhetorical question to make the listener deduce their own interpretation. It's not an answer.

riskyOz

Bergkamp 10 wrote: »

What did he do personally do?

Did he kill people and if so, why after all these years and all his enemies hasnt he been put away?

Maybe because there was no proof?

He probably could of killed people himself in his early days but what is clear is that he was on the army council of a terrorist group up until 2005. Due to his position on that council it would of been impossible to gather evidence against him as the criminal activities would be carried out by "volunteers" with his orders.

archer22

Its easy for anybody sitting in an armchair in a conflict free society like southern Ireland to judge others who were not so fortunate.But if I was a young guy in Northern Ireland in the 70s or 80s depending on which community I had been born into I might/ probably have joined the IRA if Catholic or the UDA if protestant or if I was in the British Army I might well have lost control after being over stressed and provoked.Anyhow thankfully its all over..nothing can be served by digging up the bones and trying to start it all again.Its now a part of history and should be left there.

hangon

Liam Byrne wrote: »

My point is that he's unable to call a murder a murder.

That Liam is the truth of the matter without losing those he is trying to lead from the dark past into a democratic peaceful future.
There is nothing in it for him and when he lose's he will have undone a lot of good work he has done in the NI assembly.
it was a mistake for SF to have run him.
SF have a long way to go before they will win high office in the ROI,i think it will be those who were never involved in violence who will make possible major breakthroughs in the future.
i think SF know this and are willing to take their chance's long
term.

Honestly i think they have accepted that they are in it for the long haul.

drunkmonkey

Liam Byrne wrote: »

My point is that he's unable to call a murder a murder.

The fact that he can't is the reason he's unacceptable.

He does call murder murder or killing or what ever you choose to call it depending on the situation and the people around him.

What exactly would you like him to say about murder?

hangon

drunkmonkey wrote: »

He does call murder murder or killing or what ever you choose to call it depending on the situation and the people around him.
What exactly would you like him to say about murder?

Gerry Adams carried coffins of Freedom fighters/terrorists during the GFA negotiations,He and MMG had to convince those who did not favour a peace that they were both still 100% Republicans.
the fact that in the end they convinced so many is a tribute to their political skills IMO.

jank

Liam Byrne wrote: »

Sectarian doesn't even cover it, since the IRA murdered at least as many innocent catholics as other religions.

This is wrong and a lie and you know it Liam.

Nodferatu

i can't understand how anyone is supporting any of them, non of them stand out

RandomName2

Oh_Noes wrote: »

Same go for Dev, Collins et al?

FOr the last time DeV and Collins were leagues apart from the PIRA in their behaviour - and even then what the hell is so good about DeV?

To answer the OP's question:

nationalism
to help aid creation of united Ireland
nod to peace process
nod to euroskepticism
support of Sinn Fein in general
support of IRA campaign and legacy in general

maccored

RandomName2 wrote: »

FOr the last time DeV and Collins were leagues apart from the PIRA in their behaviour

How? Didnt Collins order manys a death?

jsd1004

drunkmonkey wrote: »

He does call murder murder or killing or what ever you choose to call it depending on the situation and the people around him.

What exactly would you like him to say about murder?

Was the murder of Gadaffi a murder? If so are Cameron et al murderers. What about the innocent civilians who died. Were they murdered?