Dips on rings...

blah88

Are they not the upper body equivalent of squatting on a bosu ball?

Hanley

blah88 wrote: »

Are they not the upper body equivalent of squatting on a bosu ball?

No. But they would be if we walked on our hands and not our legs.

blah88

So they're useful because they use muscles that aren't accustomed to being used? Would you use them for gaining strength/mass or just as assistance for your regular chest exercise?

Hanley

blah88 wrote: »

So they're useful because they use muscles that aren't accustomed to being used? Would you use them for gaining strength/mass or just as assistance for your regular chest exercise?

I'd make the argument that they call into play all the little bitty shoulder stabilisers that don't normally get used, so are certainly useful in that regard.

I'd probably say they're suitable for mass gain too. I prefer them to bar dips because I can put the rings wher I want them, where they're comfortable etc rather than being stuck at a width dictated by the equipments design.

Nate--IRL--

Hanley wrote: »

I'd make the argument that they call into play all the little bitty shoulder stabilisers that don't normally get used, so are certainly useful in that regard.

I'd probably say they're suitable for mass gain too. I prefer them to bar dips because I can put the rings wher I want them, where they're comfortable etc rather than being stuck at a width dictated by the equipments design.

Hmm this sounds interesting, I hate the poxy narrow dip bars in my new gym. What do you attach them to? A power rack? Also what is the max load a set can take roughly?

Nate

Transform

Nate--IRL-- wrote: »

Hmm this sounds interesting, I hate the poxy narrow dip bars in my new gym. What do you attach them to? A power rack? Also what is the max load a set can take roughly?

Nate

will work on a power rack (plus inverted rows) and handled anything I have added on to them, 50kg+, so no bother from my end

Force you into a better elbow position also

The Guvnor

T - back to that erg thread mate!:D

Barry.Oglesby

Hanley wrote: »

I'd make the argument that they call into play all the little bitty shoulder stabilisers that don't normally get used, so are certainly useful in that regard.

Meh I'm not sure to be honest. Here's my rationale: I can do a good few dips on regular bars, so can most people. When I move onto rings, I almost halve the quantity. I don't think it's a stabilisation issue, I think it's a skills issue. I enjoy working with them, and I use them as you well know, but I'm not so sure the stabilisation benefits over regular bars add up if you're only doing a portion of the reps. I wonder too if the regular bars actually force you into a better pattern if you have an existing shoulder issue. Looking at people who do ring dips over bar dips, I don't see a particular increase in shoulder stability. My instinct is that it's a learned skill rather than a stablisation issue. Maybe I'm wrong though.

I used to be able to whack out a fair few ring dips before I had an injury that stopped me. I must try to crack into them again they're fun to do to mix it up.

Hanley

Barry.Oglesby wrote: »

Meh I'm not sure to be honest. Here's my rationale: I can do a good few dips on regular bars, so can most people. When I move onto rings, I almost halve the quantity. I don't think it's a stabilisation issue, I think it's a skills issue. I enjoy working with them, and I use them as you well know, but I'm not so sure the stabilisation benefits over regular bars add up if you're only doing a portion of the reps. I wonder too if the regular bars actually force you into a better pattern if you have an existing shoulder issue. Looking at people who do ring dips over bar dips, I don't see a particular increase in shoulder stability. My instinct is that it's a learned skill rather than a stablisation issue. Maybe I'm wrong though.

I used to be able to whack out a fair few ring dips before I had an injury that stopped me. I must try to crack into them again they're fun to do to mix it up.

It's for sure a skill, insofar as you can quickly see an exponential increase in reps without really getting "stronger", just be practicing.

But just because it's a "skill" does that mean there aren't stabilisation benefits to be gained? Obviously with bar dips there's an element of stabilisation required or you'd just fall over, but I think when you add in the linear, lateral and everything else in between potential movement with the rings you're required to bring things together in a way that isn't necessarily mimic'd by fixed bar.

I don't like fixed bar dips, I think the force me into a movement pattern that causes trouble, and I've felt the start of a pec tear on them before (which was probably related to scapular stability issues and incidentally what led me to IP in the first place, but that's another thing), I've never had that problem with rings, but don't have enough exp on them yet to say.

Here's the kicker tho - what do you think of ring push ups? Additional stabilisation requirement over normal ones?

Barry.Oglesby

Hanley wrote: »

But just because it's a "skill" does that mean there aren't stabilisation benefits to be gained? Obviously with bar dips there's an element of stabilisation required or you'd just fall over, but I think when you add in the linear, lateral and everything else in between potential movement with the rings you're required to bring things together in a way that isn't necessarily mimic'd by fixed bar.

Well like I say I could be wrong. Just because we're balancing doesn't necessarily mean it's any better though, that's my thinking.

I don't like fixed bar dips, I think the force me into a movement pattern that causes trouble,

well that could well be a technique issue too, especially considering your shoulder history. Personally I can manage my technique far better on bars than rings, which enables me to lean forward much more which is better for my shoulders. I think that's another benefit for me.

Here's the kicker tho - what do you think of ring push ups? Additional stabilisation requirement over normal ones?

Well here's something funny. I find ring push ups very easy. I've seen people shake like they're cold turkey on them but I've never had a problem doing them. The depth is different so they're difficult in that way, but as regards skills, I've never had any trouble. But dips are another question.

Nate--IRL--

I think I'll get a pair. Could anybody recommend a set?

Nate

Kadongy

Having to stabilise a motion requires more muscles to be used, and higher effort overall. This is usually a very good thing, in the same way that compound exercises are preferable to isolation ones in general.
The fact you can do half the number of reps on rings than on bars demonstrates this concept.
You can destabilise a lot of exercises and see the difference it makes. Some people could squat their bodyweight no problem yet find pistols beyond them. Or have a big bench press but be unable to do one-handed pushups.
You're right that there is a skill factor with things like this. The better balance and technique you demonstrate, the less effort you will need to make to stabilise the motion. Personally my legs are balanced in strength, but I can do more pistols more easily on my right leg - because there's slight nerve damage in my left ankle which screws up the balance a little. But even if you dont care about improving balance and coordination, you are still activating more muscles and exerting greater effort, which is beneficial for building strength too.

Barry.Oglesby

The pistol and the squat are not analogous to the ring dip and the regular dip! Totally different exercises and totally different techniques required.

Hanley

Barry.Oglesby wrote: »

The pistol and the squat are not analogous to the ring dip and the regular dip! Totally different exercises and totally different techniques required.

Agree. Same with the bench and one hand push up.

...as much as I wanted to agree with him cos he's basically trying to back up what I'm saying!

Hanley

Barry.Oglesby wrote: »

Well like I say I could be wrong. Just because we're balancing doesn't necessarily mean it's any better though, that's my thinking.

Yah we're gonna have to agree to be indecisive on this one so. There's deffo a skill element, but I instinctively feel there's an additional stabilisation element not required for fixed bar dips.

well that could well be a technique issue too, especially considering your shoulder history. Personally I can manage my technique far better on bars than rings, which enables me to lean forward much more which is better for my shoulders. I think that's another benefit for me.

Could possibly have been alright.

But since we're talking injuries, maybe YOUR injury history plays into it too...

Well here's something funny. I find ring push ups very easy. I've seen people shake like they're cold turkey on them but I've never had a problem doing them. The depth is different so they're difficult in that way, but as regards skills, I've never had any trouble. But dips are another question.

Heh... yeah I'm not exactly the opposite because I found BOTH difficult but just get better the more I do. Funny that

Barry.Oglesby

Hanley wrote: »

But since we're talking injuries, maybe YOUR injury history plays into it too...

Oh it definitely does. I can't do them most days as the pressure on my thorax is quite painful. My thinking is from watching trainees.

Hanley

Barry.Oglesby wrote: »

Oh it definitely does. I can't do them most days as the pressure on my thorax is quite painful. My thinking is from watching trainees.

Then is the reason they can't maintain good form on the rings a strength issue? ie lacking the skill/strength/stabilisation capabilities

So in that regard maybe just tossing people straight onto rings isn't a good idea, and the stabilisation developed on bars becomes enhanced on rings...

#mindlessspeculation

Transform

The Guvnor wrote: »

T - back to that erg thread mate!:D

leave me alone. I was doing well over here ignoring that!!

rubadub

Hanley wrote: »

I prefer them to bar dips because I can put the rings wher I want them, where they're comfortable etc rather than being stuck at a width dictated by the equipments design.

This is why I like V shaped dip bars, you can choose your own width, and I prefer my hands slightly pointed inwards.

If I am doing negative only dips I can handle lots of weight on rings since my hands freely turn where they are most comfortable, negative ring dips are easy stability wise, getting back up is the problem.

I have done over 20 "crossfit" ring dips, with hands pointing in, but I have never managed a gymnastic type "ring turned out dip", this guy is doing one to the extreme,

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yXxQGgwB_FU

This is a tough variation below, even the support hold with rings turned out is difficult

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9mKyrPmmPt0

I know on a gymnastics forum I look at they do not think much of crossfit style ring exercises. Doing slow & controlled ring work is far more difficult, like doing a muscleup like below.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fzkYctW6AVk

Hanley

That turn out position at the top is a hell of a lot more difficult to maintain that it looks too!!

Mellor

The muscle up at the start of this is amazing.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2q8KMnWUsvg

TommyKnocker

Mellor wrote: »

The muscle up at the start of this is amazing.

FYP

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2q8KMnWUsvg

Transform

I am sure there are o lifters, runners, rowers etc people at the top level that dont think much of crossfit style lifting, running, rowing etc.

Not the point on crossfit.

The guys on the rings spend years getting good at rings. The rings are just one aspect of crossfit of which I really enjoy.

Rovi

Mellor wrote: »

The muscle up at the start of this is amazing.

That's breathtaking! :eek:

I've NEVER seen a dismount like that though!!! :eek::eek::eek:

Mellor

Rovi wrote: »

That's breathtaking! :eek:

I've NEVER seen a dismount like that though!!! :eek::eek::eek:

Yeah, was very much a piss take dismount, wonder how it scored