UCD SU Wants YOUR input!!!

Brendan Lacey

Hey guys,

We have started the process of writing a BRAND NEW constitution this year, one designed to make the SU far more fit for purpose and far more in touch with what Students want.

We want your input in writing it!

Any idea, big or small, formal or informal, could be one line or one paragraph or anything, we want to know what you think!

https://docs.google.com/a/ucdsu.ie/spreadsheet/viewform?formkey=dGJMWEUxTUN5T3JIVlJDdXc0aUZrZUE6MQ

pljudge321

How about an opt-out clause?

L

How about not mandating the SU officers oppose the return of fees every year and instead representing the split in student body opinions?* -_-

*note, this is something I've heard second hand. Might not be 100% correct.

Brendan Lacey

The opt out thing is not allowed by the Universities act, if your in third level education you have to be represented by a Students' Union in order to protect your rights in college

jan shyr

The opt out thing is not allowed by the Universities act, if your in third level education you have to be represented by a Students' Union in order to protect your rights in college

Are you for real?

Thank you for three markers, two bananas, one trip to exam centre on an overcrowded bus, and super-diluted drink during exam time. I think I haven't left anything out.

Riamfada

Brendan Lacey wrote: »

The opt out thing is not allowed by the Universities act, if your in third level education you have to be represented by a Students' Union in order to protect your rights in college

Im pretty sure thats unconstitutional. Not unconstitutional by the SU constitution but the real one.

beardedmaster

Brendan Lacey loves speeches. He's good at them.. but you can tell he loves 'em.

L

Riamfada wrote: »

Im pretty sure thats unconstitutional. Not unconstitutional by the SU constitution but the real one.

I think as a technicality the student union is not a 'union' in order to avoid that...

I think that tells you most of what you need to know.

pljudge321

Brendan Lacey wrote: »

The opt out thing is not allowed by the Universities act, if your in third level education you have to be represented by a Students' Union in order to protect your rights in college

[CITATION NEEDED]

I couldn't find anything indicating this in the Universities Act, could you perhaps give me the relevant section number?

Riamfada

Brendan, this is why previous UCD Unions have either been banned from or have completely avoided boards.ie.

WeeBushy

Brendan Lacey wrote: »

The opt out thing is not allowed by the Universities act, if your in third level education you have to be represented by a Students' Union in order to protect your rights in college

Are you sure of that? I have been looking through the Universities Act and can't find any specific mention to a Student's Union being mandatory. There are many references to a Students Union or a student representative body being represented on boards etc., but no mention, that I can find anyway, of students having to be in one. I ain't no law student, however, and am open to correction.

Edit: Didn't read pljudge321's post... Well that makes two of us who couldn't find that anyway

pljudge321

WeeBushy wrote: »

Are you sure of that? I have been looking through the Universities Act and can't find any specific mention to a Student's Union being mandatory. There are many references to a Students Union or a student representative body being represented on boards etc., but no mention, that I can find anyway, of students having to be in one. I ain't no law student, however, and am open to correction.

Edit: Didn't read pljudge321's post... Well that makes two of us who couldn't find that anyway

I'm guessing the delay in getting back to us means he can't either.

MrMatisse

Drag Redmond out of UCD, 40 years is enough!

A ban on tossers standing for office.

parker kent

The problem with the SU is that it pretty often does not attract the best people. Whilst academic brilliance should obviously not be essential, I have heard of and have known people involved in the SU with really poor grades. I'd feel a bit happier known that the people representing me have not got a list of repeats and resits as long as the Shannon.

I also find that a lot of what the SU does seems childish and amateurish. "You're here for a good time, not a long time" springs to mind.

The biggest problem with the SU is that the vast majority simply don't care or actively dislike the SU. The easy answer is to say "well get involved and change it", but will a dissenter receive the necessary support to actually change things?

Then I have another theory on why the SU never really works. It is a bunch of undergrads with limited experience of actually doing anything. It is amateurish because it is ran by amateurs. That's not really their fault, but it does play a part in the many things that annoy people about the SU.

At the ground level (class reps and programme officers), the SU can work well. They do a really good job in most instances as they are extremely accessible and relate to the people they represent. Whereas the Sabbats, well it takes a certain type of personality to become one of those and they are largely removed from the majority of the student body.

spudington16

It's impossible to find the info you want on the SU website when you need it.

Can you tell me when the Union Council meets next in the coming month or so?

beardedmaster

The next Council meeting is tomorrow, at 6.15pm. I think it's every 2nd Thursday. I'm presuming it's on in the same place as last time - Theatre R in Newman.

beardedmaster

parker kent wrote: »

The biggest problem with the SU is that the vast majority simply don't care or actively dislike the SU. The easy answer is to say "well get involved and change it", but will a dissenter receive the necessary support to actually change things?

I think Lannoye answered that last year.

WeeBushy

parker kent - excellent post.

electrictrad

MrMatisse wrote: »

A ban on tossers standing for office.

Great Idea. . .you moron. . .

pljudge321

electrictrad wrote: »

Great Idea. . .you moron. . .

Good contribution.

Glad to see Brendan Lacey never got back on any of our queries. Having read the latest observer I've been wondering what legal implications the transformation of the SU into SU Ltd will have on the whole mandatory membership thing.

Raphael

electrictrad wrote: »

Great Idea. . .you moron. . .

Infracted. Abuse is against the Charter, as you'd know if you'd read it.

RandolphEsq

I don't understand why you need to pay the SU reps, surely if you get a few more people to run each position they can all do it whilst still studying. But why upset the cosy arrangement FF lite have got going for themselves?

Conor108

RandolphEsq wrote: »

I don't understand why you need to pay the SU reps, surely if you get a few more people to run each position they can all do it whilst still studying. But why upset the cosy arrangement FF lite have got going for themselves?

Genius

electrictrad

pljudge321 wrote: »

Good contribution.

Sorry. . .but "a ban on tossers running for office" is one of the most unhelpful, stupidest comments I have ever read on this site. . .people who come out with comments like that don't deserve student union representation. . .

People may not like everything the SU does. They may think some of the things it does are corny, or out of touch, and in some cases it may be right. But a strong SU serves a very important purpose, namely being a student voice for students, some of whom are in financial and social difficulties. . . And it angers me to see students who wouldn't open the the door for ya throwing sideway digs at people who volunteer their free time to help their fellow students with their problems. . .

stop

electrictrad wrote: »

Sorry. . .but "a ban on tossers running for office" is one of the most unhelpful, stupidest comments I have ever read on this site. . .people who come out with comments like that don't deserve student union representation. . .

People may not like everything the SU does. They may think some of the things it does are corny, or out of touch, and in some cases it may be right. But a strong SU serves a very important purpose, namely being a student voice for students, some of whom are in financial and social difficulties. . . And it angers me to see students who wouldn't open the the door for ya throwing sideway digs at people who volunteer their free time to help their fellow students with their problems. . .

Sabats don't exactly volunteer their free time, they are doing a job that they are paid for.

electrictrad

stop wrote: »

Sabats don't exactly volunteer their free time, they are doing a job that they are paid for.

Ah, come on now, they're probably getting pittance compared to the work they put in. . .

And what the hells a "Sabat"?

L

electrictrad wrote: »

. . .people who come out with comments like that don't deserve student union representation. . .

Not to be flippant, but most people who come out with comments like that don't want student union representation.

I'm in college 8 years now (Undergrad, Masters and now Phd). In all that time, I genuinely can't think of a single occasion where the SU was useful. I can however think of a few occasions where it did/was responsible for something that made me sigh.

L

electrictrad wrote: »

Ah, come on now, they're probably getting pittance compared to the work they put in. . .

And what the hells a "Sabat"?

You realise they get €20k a year right? Even if they're working a 40hr week (which I doubt), they're earning a fair bit more than minimum wage.

Sabat= shorthand for Sabbatical officer

electrictrad

L wrote: »

I'm in college 8 years now (Undergrad, Masters and now Phd). In all that time, I genuinely can't think of a single occasion where the SU was useful.

It is true that some don't need the SU. . .

But say you were in a dispute with the college, or needed some kinda assistance the college weren't providing, the SU would be needed to try and sort things out with your interests in mind.. .

And I am glad, as a 1st year student from down the country, with at least 5 years left here, that they are there to fight the reintroduction of 3rd level fees, because thats something I and a lot of others in the college are gonna find very difficult to afford. . .

electrictrad

L wrote: »

You realise they get €20k a year right? Even if they're working a 40hr week (which I doubt), they're earning a fair bit more than minimum wage.

Yes, but the reps don't get hardly anything, and they put in a lot of time for nothing - to help their peers. Most of these guys have done stints as reps (I presume), and are now taking a full year of their own education off in most cases. . . somehow I doubt they're in it for the cash when on graduation, most of them will take jobs, here or abroad, that will pay much higher per year. . .

L

electrictrad wrote: »

But say you were in a dispute with the college, or needed some kinda assistance the college weren't providing, the SU would be needed to try and sort things out with your interests in mind.. .

Been there as it happens. The SU were no help. A professional student welfare officer probably would have been.

electrictrad wrote: »

And I am glad, as a 1st year student from down the country, with at least 5 years left here, that they are there to fight the reintroduction of 3rd level fees, because thats something I and a lot of others in the college are gonna find very difficult to afford. . .

Universal free fees favour those who are well off, not those who would have trouble affording college if fees were reintroduced. I really wish this was explained to people more often.

Proper grant schemes are the correct way to deal with ensuring everyone gets a crack at college because they mean money goes where it's needed rather than being 'equally' distributed to those who need it and those who do not.

Seriously, people seem to think the government magically gets the money for the cost of 'free fees' out of thin air.

electrictrad wrote: »

Yes, but the reps don't get hardly anything, and they put in a lot of time for nothing - to help their peers. Most of these guys have done stints as reps (I presume), and are now taking a full year of their own education off in most cases. . . somehow I doubt they're in it for the cash when on graduation, most of them will take jobs, here or abroad, that will pay much higher per year. . .

Reps (poor sods) are a completely different kettle of fish to the Sabbatical officers. If the SU was just the reps, I'd have a lot less issue with it.

And, yeah, I doubt they're in it for the money...they're probably in it for the year hanging around college without exams. -_-

parker kent

electrictrad wrote: »

Ah, come on now, they're probably getting pittance compared to the work they put in. . .

And what the hells a "Sabat"?

That you don't know what a "Sabat" is shows that you lack knowledge on this topic. Fair enough this is your first year, but some of us have been in UCD for far longer and just know more about UCD and the role (or total lack of a role) they play in college life. You are talking about class reps, not the sabats that we are complaining about. You haven't seen them campaign year in, year out for "change". Only for that "change" to mean parties in D2 and "training" sessions abroad.

electrictrad wrote: »

Yes, but the reps don't get hardly anything, and they put in a lot of time for nothing - to help their peers. Most of these guys have done stints as reps (I presume), and are now taking a full year of their own education off in most cases. . . somehow I doubt they're in it for the cash when on graduation, most of them will take jobs, here or abroad, that will pay much higher per year. . .

Class reps are as I said earlier almost always a positive as they represent their class. However, the sabbats are getting well paid (particularly since they are just dícking around UCD for a year) and do very little. Whatever they do after they graduation is irrelevant. The SU is notoriously a clique and extremely difficult to break into for anybody that views it differently.

brownlad

electrictrad wrote: »

Ah, come on now, they're probably getting pittance compared to the work they put in. . .

And what the hells a "Sabat"?

i think your partially correct as regards to the wages...some of them do not deserve a dime because they do squat...but the one person who i think actually does give a crap is rachael breslin...that girl works like a machine...she is always so nice all the time ...and you can nearly tell that the job has taken its toll on the poor girl just by looking at her like!... a Mon Avis she is the hardest worker in the ucd su by a long shot in comparison to all the others !


















p.s i would

parker kent

L wrote: »

Universal free fees favour those who are well off, not those who would have trouble affording college if fees were reintroduced. I really wish this was explained to people more often.

Proper grant schemes are the correct way to deal with ensuring everyone gets a crack at college because they mean money goes where it's needed rather than being 'equally' distributed to those who need it and those who do not.

Seriously, people seem to think the government magically gets the money for the cost of 'free fees' out of thin air.

Actually there has been huge rows on here about that. I support your view and always try to back it up with evidence. Others don't and will never change their opinion.

Mycroft H

I love how quiet Brendan Lacey has gone

parker kent

BX 19 wrote: »

I love how quiet Brendan Lacey has gone

UCD SU wants YOUR input...just don't expect us to listen or act on any of it :pac:

beardedmaster

brownlad wrote: »

p.s i would

Amen brother.

parker kent

Poor girl, 95% of the thread is giving out about the SU and the other 5% is people saying they want to give her one. Lets not move into the weird zone and creep her out any more!

beardedmaster

Hahah, ah she's really nice though, and ridiculously hardworking. She just happens to also be really pretty.

To be honest I'm not sure if I can even go to the march or not, it depends if things I'd miss are rescheduled or not.

EDIT: Thought this was a thread about the march.. woops... nevermind

Brendan Lacey

Sorry guys, I haven't gone quiet I just didnt intend to have an active discussion here, was more advertising the opening of submissions for Constitutional review. There are some really interesting thoughts in the above passages and I encourage you all to put them into writing (email as it were) to the review process. I can promise you we are looking to completely rebuild the Union this year, from the financial overhaul that began at the start of the year right through to changing to constitution at the end of this year to a far more fit for purpose document and NO input will go unread nor without consideration.

So i urge you, make a submission or two to constitution@ucdsu.ie!

Beir Bua,

Lacey

Red Alert

This is a discussion forum, and I personally find using it as a spam-board to encourage input to the SU annoying. To be honest, the SU would do well to read the threads in this forum going right back from 2011 to the beginning. Time and time again, they prove themselves to be irrelevant and out of touch with the general student body.

Killer Pigeon

Wait, UCDSU still exists?

UCDSU reminds me of a gang of generals in WW1.

"Student?"

"Yes, these pesky students again, giving out about us again."

"Oh, just throw them a pack of condoms to keep them happy."

Inner Party - UCDSU Sabbats/President/Vice-Presidents
Outer Party - Class Reps
Proles - Rest of the student body

Killer Pigeon

Brendan Lacey wrote: »

I can promise you we are looking to completely rebuild the Union this year

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hfto5yYc2p4

People on boards.ie are faaarrr to cynical for that Lacey, you're going to have to try harder.

Riveta

I suppose my main issue with the SU is the fact that after spending five years in UCD I'm still not quite sure what purpose they actually serve. I won't harp on about what's been already said in regards to the "cliques" the "inner circle" rhetoric, but I will say that the vast majority of UCD students have very, very little to do with the SU.

It just seems to be wholly irrelevant and inaccessible to most and very advantageous and "comfy" for a few. I'm also of the impression that many of the people in the upper echelons are merely there to kick-start some kind of political career outside of college.

I did serve as a class rep in first year and attended a few of SU meetings in the student centre and found it be quite alienating, lots of groups and in-jokes and the likes. I will add that I stopped going so maybe I lost out on getting to know anyone properly.

I can see a place for class reps to speak for people when it comes to particular courses and issues that may arise. They also serve a very important role in organising social events for classes too. It's the greater SU that seems pointless!

Bluefox21

Don't really understand what a new constitution will achieve to be honest? Didn't even know we had one in the first place and I'm here four years!

Fair play for coming on though and looking for suggestions. You'll always be fighting a losing battle however with anyone who has been in UCD for over 2 years and not been in the Union clique (most of boards members ).

For the head of the entire students union of Ireland to be ranked 47th amongst the most influential figures in Irish education says a huge amount and reflects the general feeling about the Union.

http://www.collegetribune.ie/index.php/2011/10/redmond-barely-makes-rankings/

Unfortunately, we've been fed the same bullsh*t year on year now which, although not your fault, does make your job that extra bit more challenging.

Going to try keep and open mind.

Good luck!