new drink driving limits and not got your license with you

Random

so learner permit holders face lower drink drive limits. those who have forgotten their license are treated as though they are learner permit holders.

i assume though that once you get back to the station and confirm you have a full license that youre not still gonna get done based on learner permit guidelines?

Hooch

Random wrote: »

so learner permit holders face lower drink drive limits. those who have forgotten their license are treated as though they are learner permit holders.

i assume though that once you get back to the station and confirm you have a full license that youre not still gonna get done based on learner permit guidelines?

You will be processed as such and the. Released. Once your license is produced no prosecution will be taken for drunken driving.

Random

this would obviously stay on your permenant record though?

johnners2981

Its pretty ridiculous expecting everyone to have their license with them, what if you're insured on more than one car or have used your license as proof of identity

BrianD

Whatever disqualification/points would continue onto your full licence and you'd have to declare it for insurance purposes.

Random

you have to carry your license with you when driving by law now.
how does being insured on multiple cars matter?
i dont get your proof of identity thing.

anyway, that wasnt my question.

Delancey

johnners2981 wrote: »

Its pretty ridiculous expecting everyone to have their license with them, what if you're insured on more than one car or have used your license as proof of identity

I don't follow you - what are you trying to say ?

Bosh

You are required to carry our licence with with you when driving, it is an offence not to produce it on demand.

With regard to the permit etc., for the purposes of the new drink drive limits you will be presumed to be a specified driver unless you can prove the contrary.

For example: you are stopped at a MAT checkpoint and tested and you don't have your licence. You will be tested at the lower limit setting (9mg). You fail the roadside breath test and are arrested.

At the station you are processed on the new evidential machine and fail with a reading of 18mg and charged accordingly.

You subsequently produce your full licence - charge withdrawn as you are not a specified driver and the 22mg limit applies.

But if you has exceeded 22mg a new charge would be preferred.

Bit long winded but HTH

BrianD

Is there a driving licence database that the Gardai can consult? Like they do on Road Wars?

Bosh

BrianD wrote: »

Is there a driving licence database that the Gardai can consult? Like they do on Road Wars?

Not as such.

And we don't have Road Wars here.... merely minor Boreen Arguments

seamus

johnners2981 wrote: »

Its pretty ridiculous expecting everyone to have their license with them, what if you're insured on more than one car or have used your license as proof of identity

If you use your licence as ID, then you have it on you, surely? If you drive more than one car, take the licence with you. It's not that difficult.

The point of this clause is to prevent a loophole;

1. Garda stops a driver, tests him @ 30mg.
2. Driver claims to be a fully licenced driver, but forgot his licence
3. Garda has no power to arrest him
4. Driver arrives 2 days later at the station with a provisional licence.
5. Because 2 days have passed, he can't be tested at the station and can't be prosecuted (for drink-driving)

Drink-Driving is one of the most serious offences, so most people would happily take charges of driving unaccompanied and giving false details to a Garda rather than be done for drink-driving.

Zambia

I assume a plan is being formed to create credit card size licences? The Irish long licence is not really designed for everyday use.

source

Zambia wrote: »

I assume a plan is being formed to create credit card size licences? The Irish long licence is not really designed for everyday use.

Yup the legislation was passed in the recent Road Traffic Act 2010. They will start to introduce them late next year/early 2013.......why the delay???? I really don't know, probably bureaucracy and red tape.

AlmostQuick

So what constitutes a 'professional' driver under the new rules? Is it bus/taxi/truck drivers or anyone driving a commercial vehicle or what?

Bosh

It's termed specified driver & basically it's anyone holding a licence with anything other than a class A or B and driving that type of vehicle at the time.

Also included are PSV drivers (buses, hackeys, taxis)

So someone holding an artic licence would have to be driving a lorry of class C or higher to come within the ambit of the new levels.

One important point - if you are towing a trailer with a car the E part of the licence kicks in so you are then at the lower limit.

The two must go together, class of licence & class of vehicle.

HTH

kub

I do not drink, a sad existence, I know. Just wondering, at these blow in the bag checkpoints, do you guys automatically get every one to blow into that yoke or just people that you suspect of being over the limit?

TylerIE

I drive a fair bit and at many its everybody, but at some its only some drivers - not necessarily just people who they suspect but every Xth car, depending on how much traffic. When it was first launched it was said that it was good to get people used to the experience of being breathalised, as if your in the pub contemplating a drink when you have the car with you, you will remember the time you were breathalised and how it could happen again.

So it really varies! The Mandatory Alcohol Testing checkpoint gives the Gardai the authorization to breathalise any driver without an underlying reason (ie without suspecting them to be over the limit based on their driving or their speech or smell of alcohol, or without them having committed another offence or without them having been involved in a road accident which had injuries).

goldie fish

kub wrote: »

I do not drink, a sad existence, I know. Just wondering, at these blow in the bag checkpoints, do you guys automatically get every one to blow into that yoke or just people that you suspect of being over the limit?

Everyone.
Randomly.

Contra Proferentem

Just to clarify the driving license issue as distinct from the Drink driving issue, could someone in the know clear up if you're required to have your driving license with you or do you get ten days to produce it if you haven't got it with you?

Or is not having your driving license with you a separate offence and what, if any, are the penalties?

Obviously it's good practice to have it with you, but as has been mentioned, not everyone likes carrying the whole long form version around with them.

guil

Contra Proferentem wrote: »

Just to clarify the driving license issue as distinct from the Drink driving issue, could someone in the know clear up if you're required to have your driving license with you or do you get ten days to produce it if you haven't got it with you?

Or is not having your driving license with you a separate offence and what, if any, are the penalties?

Obviously it's good practice to have it with you, but as has been mentioned, not everyone likes carrying the whole long form version around with them.

post #8 answers most of your questions, i'm sure you will still get 10 days to produce to stop a prosecution if you have a full licence and are under that limit but you can be arrested if you are over the limit for a learner

source

Contra Proferentem wrote: »

Just to clarify the driving license issue as distinct from the Drink driving issue, could someone in the know clear up if you're required to have your driving license with you or do you get ten days to produce it if you haven't got it with you?

Or is not having your driving license with you a separate offence and what, if any, are the penalties?

Obviously it's good practice to have it with you, but as has been mentioned, not everyone likes carrying the whole long form version around with them.

40.—(1) (a) A member of the Garda Síochána may demand, of a person driving in a public place a mechanically propelled vehicle or accompanying pursuant to regulations under this Act the holder of a provisional licence while such holder is driving in a public place a mechanically propelled vehicle, the production of a driving licence then having effect and licensing him to drive the vehicle, and if such person refuses or fails to produce the licence there and then, he shall, unless within ten days after the date on which the production was demanded he produces such licence in person to a member of the Garda Síochána at a Garda Síochána station to be named by such person at the time at which the production was so demanded, be guilty of an offence.


(b) In a prosecution for an offence under this subsection, it shall be presumed, until the contrary is shown by the defendant, that he did not, within ten days after the day on which the production was demanded, produce a driving licence in accordance with paragraph (a) of this subsection.


(2) Where a person of whom the production of a driving licence is demanded under this section produces the licence, but refuses or fails to permit the member of the Garda Síochána making the demand to read the licence, he shall be guilty of an offen,


(3)Where a person of whom the production of a driving licence is demanded under this section refuses or fails to produce the licence or produces the licence but refuses or fails to permit the member of the Garda Síochána making the demand to read the licence, or where a person produces a driving licence at a Garda Síochána station in accordance with paragraph (a) of subsection (1) of this section but refuses or fails to permit the member of the Garda Síochána to whom the licence is produced to read it, the member may demand of such person his name and address and, if such person refuses or fails to give his name and address or gives a name or address which is false or misleading, he shall be guilty of an offence.


(4) A member of the Garda Síochána may arrest without warrant—


(a) any person who pursuant to this section produces a driving licence to the member but refuses or fails to permit the member to read it, or


(b) any person who, when his name and address is lawfully demanded of him by such member under this section, refuses or fails to give his name and address or gives a name or address which the member has reasonable grounds for believing to be false.


(5) A person who, when producing a driving licence to a member of the Garda Síochána pursuant to this section, permits the member to see and read so much of the licence as contains the name, address, signature (if any) and photograph (if any) of the person to whom the licence was granted, the date of the termination of the period for which it was granted and the licensing authority by whom it was granted shall, for the purposes of this section, be deemed to have permitted such member to read the licence.


(6) A person who, when the production of a driving licence is demanded of him under this section, does not produce the licence because he is not the holder of a driving licence shall be deemed to fail to produce his driving licence within the meaning of this section.

Basically you're required to have it while driving, but if you don't you're given 10 days to prove you weren't driving without a licence.

Contra Proferentem

Thanks for the clarification lads.

Bosh

source wrote: »

Basically you're required to have it while driving, but if you don't you're given 10 days to prove you weren't driving without a licence.

Just to clarify (or confuse things even further ) you will still get a summons for not producing it* there & then even if you do produce within the ten.

*your licence that is - not anything else you dirty minded lot!

BrianD

Is there penalty points for not having it on you? I thought there was.

Corruptable

Another question lads:

If you have a full license, for all class of vehicles (a lot of older people got these back when they did the car test) and are stopped while driving a standard car are you treated at the lower limit?

There is no way to prove whether they drive an articulated lorry everyday of the week or whether they simply drive a standard car and never use these other classifications.

Hooch

Corruptable wrote: »

Another question lads:

If you have a full license, for all class of vehicles (a lot of older people got these back when they did the car test) and are stopped while driving a standard car are you treated at the lower limit?

There is no way to prove whether they drive an articulated lorry everyday of the week or whether they simply drive a standard car and never use these other classifications.

I comes down to the class of vehicle you drive, not what you have on your licence.

Corruptable

Hooch wrote: »

I comes down to the class of vehicle you drive, not what you have on your licence.

So a taxi driver who happens to be in his private car (and the Garda was not aware of his PSV driving) would be taken at the standard limit?

Or likewise a farmer in a private jeep (class B I think) would be taken at the ordinary limit, despite the fact he drives an articulated milk tanker from time to time and has the required license for that?

Hooch

Corruptable wrote: »

So a taxi driver who happens to be in his private car (and the Garda was not aware of his PSV driving) would be taken at the standard limit?

Or likewise a farmer in a private jeep (class B I think) would be taken at the ordinary limit, despite the fact he drives an articulated milk tanker from time to time and has the required license for that?

Exactly

ResearchWill

Bosh wrote: »

It's termed specified driver & basically it's anyone holding a licence with anything other than a class A or B and driving that type of vehicle at the time.

Also included are PSV drivers (buses, hackeys, taxis)

So someone holding an artic licence would have to be driving a lorry of class C or higher to come within the ambit of the new levels.

One important point - if you are towing a trailer with a car the E part of the licence kicks in so you are then at the lower limit.

The two must go together, class of licence & class of vehicle.

HTH

The E part only comes in if the laden weight of the trailer is over 750kgs, or if the trailer is less than half the unladen weight of the towing vehicle and combined they are less than 3500 kgs. But to be safe if towing trailer treat it as the lower limit.

Bosh

The two go together: i.e. driver must have the class of licence AND be driving the class of vehicle.

ROAD TRAFFIC ACT 2010:

“specified person” means a person who at the time of an alleged offence under section 4 or 5 —

(a) is the holder of a learner permit,

(b) holds his or her first driving licence, for a period not exceeding 2 years from its date of issue,

(c) is the holder of a driving licence licensing the holder to drive a vehicle in the category C, C1, D, D1, EB, EC, EC1, ED, ED1 and W while driving, attempting to drive or being in charge of such a vehicle,

(d) is the holder of a licence to drive a small public service vehicle granted under section 34 of the Taxi Regulation Act 2003 or section 82 of the Principal Act or a person purporting to be such a holder while driving, attempting to drive or being in charge of such a vehicle, when the vehicle is being used in the course of business,

(e) does not hold, at the time or, at any time within the period of 5 years prior to the commission, of the alleged offence a driving licence for the time being having effect and licensing the person to drive a vehicle of the category concerned, or

(f) is deemed under section 8 to be a specified person.

(2) Where a person holds a driving licence referred to in paragraph (c) or (d) of the definition of “specified person” in subsection (1) it is presumed, until the contrary is shown, that the person was driving at the time of the alleged offence a vehicle of the category concerned or a small public service vehicle being used in the course of business.

Bosh

ResearchWill wrote: »

The E part only comes in if the laden weight of the trailer is over 750kgs, or if the trailer is less than half the unladen weight of the towing vehicle and combined they are less than 3500 kgs. But to be safe if towing trailer treat it as the lower limit.

Not sure if you're correct on that one, RW; the weight is irrelevant, there mere fact that a trailer is being towed requires an EB so therefore would fall within the lower limit.

That would be like saying that a bus driver would be subject to the higher limit if he was driving an empty bus

Hooch

Bosh wrote: »

Not sure if you're correct on that one, RW; the weight is irrelevant, there mere fact that a trailer is being towed requires an EB so therefore would fall within the lower limit.

That would be like saying that a bus driver would be subject to the higher limit if he was driving an empty bus

Anyone can pull a trailer that weighs under 750kgs on a normal B licence. An EB kicks in over 750kgs.

This is all taking into account the vehicle weight plate also but it doesnt effect the licence

ResearchWill

Bosh wrote: »

Not sure if you're correct on that one, RW; the weight is irrelevant, there mere fact that a trailer is being towed requires an EB so therefore would fall within the lower limit.

That would be like saying that a bus driver would be subject to the higher limit if he was driving an empty bus

RSA set out the regs here http://www.rsa.ie/RSA/Vehicles-and-Legislation/Vehicle-Standards/Trailers/

You do not need E licence in certain situations set out above.

guil

Hooch wrote: »

Anyone can pull a trailer that weighs under 750kgs on a normal B licence. An EB kicks in over 750kgs.

This is all taking into account the vehicle weight plate also but it doesnt effect the licence

as long as the car and trailer are less than 3500kgs gross and the trailer is less than the unladen weight of the car then it can be drove with a B licence

Hooch

guil wrote: »

as long as the car and trailer are less than 3500kgs gross and the trailer is less than the unladen weight of the car then it can be drove with a B licence

Isn't that basically what I said?? The weight plate shows the unladen weight...

guil

Hooch wrote: »

Isn't that basically what I said?? The weight plate shows the unladen weight...

no you said you need an EB over 750kgs, that's not the case

Bosh

Every day's a school day!

Worms and cans spring to mind :eek:

bern8

If you passed your Driving test before the new laws came in but within the last 2 years do you still have to be under the lower limit of 20mg or is it the higher one of 50mg?