Abolish the Irish Nuclear Energy Board

Xenophile

Save some money abolish The Irish Nuclear Energy Board.
Of course I hope the people affected will be well treated.:)

kirving

We're really going to have to embrace nuclear energy at some stage, not sure what they do however.

Manach

According to Wikipedia, this no longer exists and has been replaced by Radiological Protection Institute of Ireland -
"The institute is the successor to the Nuclear Energy Board which was formally wound up by the Radiological Protection Act, 1991,"

dlofnep

Kevin Irving wrote: »

We're really going to have to embrace nuclear energy at some stage, not sure what they do however.

No, we're really not going to have to.

bbam

We don't need them...

Once Eirgrid complete the East-West Interconnector we'll be connected to the UK Nuclear grid and use their's

http://www.eirgridprojects.com/projects/east-westinterconnector/

Nolanger

Because we want to cut carbon emissions except when it comes to nuclear energy?

I thought there was enough wind/wave energy off the west coast of Ireland to power the entire island and some of Europe?

So why would we need nuclear.

I am not against nuclear, just don't see the point of it.

Xenophile

If we have to resort to nuclear energy lets not generate it ourselves, buy it if we have too, if we decide to buy it the it will be time enough to reconstitute the board. But just looking at the way Germany is going I doubt very much if we will ever be using nuclear energy anyway. Can we imagine how we could handle such an unforseen disaster as happened in Japon earlier this year.:o

ei.sdraob

Deleted User wrote: »

I thought there was enough wind/wave energy off the west coast of Ireland to power the entire island and some of Europe?

So why would we need nuclear.

I am not against nuclear, just don't see the point of it.

Sure and we can all become ultra rich by selling homes to each other

will people stop buying bull**** peddled by politicians and look at the facts? wind blows (well doesnt blow enough!) and there isnt a pot of gold at the end of the rainbow :P

Xenophile

Radiological Protection Institute of Ireland - Is this the quango that put the neccessary protection through our letter boxes some years ago.:eek:

Delancey

bbam wrote: »

We don't need them...

Once Eirgrid complete the East-West Interconnector we'll be connected to the UK Nuclear grid and use their's

http://www.eirgridprojects.com/projects/east-westinterconnector/

Exactly , we can then delude ourselves of our ' Green ' credentials - truly an Irish solution to an Irish problem !

Curly Judge

Xenophile wrote: »

Radiological Protection Institute of Ireland - Is this the quango that put the neccessary protection through our letter boxes some years ago.:eek:

You can't hang that one on them.
That was done to save the arse of a stupid FF junior minister who wasn't up to his brief.
My main beef with them is that they have Adie Roche on their board.
She knows diddly squat about either nuclear energy or radiation yet feels free to go around to schools badmouthing a wonderful science and technology.
I bet if a proponent of nuclear power was to arrange counter visits every arts degree teacher in the country would recoil in horror as if you were proposing to teach their little darlings the Kama Sutra.

Curly Judge

Delancey wrote: »

Exactly , we can then delude ourselves of our ' Green ' credentials - truly an Irish solution to an Irish problem !

Thank goodness Delancey. I was beginning to think that every Mod
on Boards was anti nuke.

Sticky_Fingers

Deleted User wrote: »

I thought there was enough wind/wave energy off the west coast of Ireland to power the entire island and some of Europe?

So why would we need nuclear.

I am not against nuclear, just don't see the point of it.

I can tell you for a fact that this is complete and utter horse s**t, I worked in the industry. Technically there is that amount of energy out there but to cost of actually tapping into it in any meaningful way (i.e: powering a county) would make you blanch.

It may be feasible in the future but there is at least another decade of research needed in some renewable energy sectors (wave/tidal) to make large scale implementation even remotely viable from an engineering stand point let alone cost effective.

Einhard

Xenophile wrote: »

Can we imagine how we could handle such an unforseen disaster as happened in Japon earlier this year.:o

The disaster being the earthquake in which tens of thousands of people lost their lives, or the nuclear incident on which, er, nobody has lost their lives?

Delancey

Einhard wrote: »

The disaster being the earthquake in which tens of thousands of people lost their lives, or the nuclear incident on which, er, nobody has lost their lives?

+ 1 , anyone else remember the bumper stickers from the 1980 US Presidential election that read '' More people died at Chappaquidick than at 3 Mile Island ''.

Unfortunately the likes of Adi Roche gets a very easy ride from the media and she is allowed to speak as an expert on matters nuclear , the idea that we can power this country on renewable energy is utter nonsense but then so much of what the Green lobby say is nonsense.

Einhard

Delancey wrote: »

+ 1 , anyone else remember the bumper stickers from the 1980 US Presidential election that read '' More people died at Chappaquidick than at 3 Mile Island ''.

Unfortunately the likes of Adi Roche gets a very easy ride from the media and she is allowed to speak as an expert on matters nuclear , the idea that we can power this country on renewable energy is utter nonsense but then so much of what the Green lobby say is nonsense.

I was reading an article a few weeks ago about how an albino rabbit born near Fukashima was both illustrative of, and a harbinger of, the nuclear catastrophe that was threatening the Japanese people as a whole. An albino rabbit! FFS.

Manach

Ah but what size is the albino rabbit now, [an image of a white giant rabbit rising out of Tokoyo bay and Jerry Bruckheimer buying the film-rights]

Einhard

Manach wrote: »

Ah but what size is the albino rabbit now, [an image of a white giant rabbit rising out of Tokoyo bay and Jerry Bruckheimer buying the film-rights]

I think this was the little bugger...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cCI18qAoKq4

Sticky_Fingers

Manach wrote: »

Ah but what size is the albino rabbit now, [an image of a white giant rabbit rising out of Tokoyo bay and Jerry Bruckheimer buying the film-rights]

Too late it has been done already to perfection :P

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xulXFB3-A3c

In all seriousness though the recent decision by many countries to phase out nuclear is a catastrophic mistake and I fear that once they realize their error it will be too late to rectify it.

The world needs to invest in the nuclear industry now, to ensure a (relatively) cheap, reliable and safer alternative to fossil fuels. Nuclear in and of itself is only a stop gap measure since it is a finite resource but it will hopefully give us the time to finally pull the finger out and find a real alternative to the worlds energy needs.

B_Fanatic

dlofnep wrote: »

No, we're really not going to have to.

We should, but yes, we probably won't. Irish people are stubborn and don't like change. "Gah, Nuclear energy! I don't want four eyes!"




And that's why I hate Democracy. :pac:

thebman

Manach wrote: »

Ah but what size is the albino rabbit now, [an image of a white giant rabbit rising out of Tokoyo bay and Jerry Bruckheimer buying the film-rights]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ueilpj1nWlg&t=2m50s

Something like the above I imagine. Terrifying!!

Greaney

Janey! There's a revelation! I didn't know we had a nuclear quango!! I've just come off the turf cutting thread and I gotta agree with the posters who say that the Irish aren't really good at change:rolleyes:

It's the getting rid of Nuclear waste that freaks me out a bit! But maybe that's baggage from the 80's and it's all different now... they say

Aidan1

In all seriousness though the recent decision by many countries to phase out nuclear is a catastrophic mistake and I fear that once they realize their error it will be too late to rectify it.

In reality, given how reliant we are on gas, we are likely to suffer far more from the German decision to walk away from nuclear than we ever have from the British/Russian nuclear industry. Essentially, the Germans are going to have to build a series of new CCGT gas plants (probably about 10GW in total), which will result in a dramatic increase in the demand for gas, with obvious consequences for the price (separate to any increases by dint of oil price increases).

In total, given the effect wind has in acting as a hedge on gas, people should be hoping that (a) it stays windy, and (b) the Brits get their act together on redesigning the wholesale market and actually build their new generation of nuclear plant.

Curly Judge

We should be forming alliances with other high tech nations to develop thorium reactors, preferably Liquid Fluoride Thorium Reactors [LFTR] or "Lifter" to it's fans.
There is probably enough thorium extant to last for 1000 years but none in this country as far as I know.
Ironically we have deposits of uranium in Donegal but I suspect they might as well be on the far side of Pluto for all the good they will be allowed do us.

ei.sdraob

Curly Judge wrote: »

We should be forming alliances with other high tech nations to develop thorium reactors, preferably Liquid Fluoride Thorium Reactors [LFTR] or "Lifter" to it's fans.
There is probably enough thorium extant to last for 1000 years but none in this country as far as I know.
Ironically we have deposits of uranium in Donegal but I suspect they might as well be on the far side of Pluto for all the good they will be allowed do us.

@CurlyJudge

A certain past Green minister (Eamon Ryan) banned all exploration and extraction of Uranium in 2007

The Radiological Protection Institute of Ireland (thread subject) spends alot of money on Radon testing which is a big problem in this country, Radon is a natural decay product of Uranium decaying...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radon

wikipedia wrote:

Radon is formed as part of the normal radioactive decay chain of uranium and thorium

food for thought there, sigh we are be quite literary sitting on fuel to power the country, or alternatively export...

1huge1

bbam wrote: »

We don't need them...

Once Eirgrid complete the East-West Interconnector we'll be connected to the UK Nuclear grid and use their's

http://www.eirgridprojects.com/projects/east-westinterconnector/

But surely we will be paying a premium price to use it? They will have to make a profit from it.

Sadly I think this nanny state we live in wont embrace the true advantages of Nuclear Power in my lifetime, instead they will quote irrelevant half true facts about something that happened in a communist understaffed outdated poorly run nuclear plant and one in Japan that despite being hit by a massive earthquake still did not go off. Plus to mention the fact that Ireland is no where near any fault lines and is on the most stable plate.

Godge

This place is going mad. Somebody started a thread calling for the abolition of the Irish Nuclear Energy Board which doesn't exist any more!!!!

How crazy can this get? Next thing we will have someone calling for the expired Ray Burke oil and gas licenses to be revoked. Oh, that is what the Dame St. protesters want.

Seriously, the RPII is there to monitor radiation levels in Ireland and warn us and advise us when the next Chernobyl happens. Definetely a good idea to abolish it:rolleyes:.

Bumski

I think that they're also involved in the monitoring and mapping of radon levels which is important.

ei.sdraob

Bumski wrote: »

I think that they're also involved in the monitoring and mapping of radon levels which is important.

They are

Why does this require a whole quango?
Why cant the Dept of Environment or some other Dept perform this functionality?


The very fact that there is so much Radon is a hint that there are deposits of Uranium and Thorium which could be mined and used for electricity generation or just simply exported, but no exploration and mining is now banned....

Bumski

I'm not sure that the radon thing alone requires a quango - from their website they also appear to do a few other thing. But I doubt that the various govt depts employ the specialist scientists required in the nuclear field. As far as I'm aware the creation of "doing" quangos like the RPII and EPA etc is to separate the policy/legislative form the actual work on the ground. (The Dept of Ed doesn't directly employ teachers but sets the policy and legal framework in which teachers and schools operate.) If the RPII and other quangos were subsumed into govt depts then I presume that there would still be the need to employ the personnel involved in the science and inspections side though there might well be a saving on the admin side.

ei.sdraob

There be a larger saving if also the 3rd level institutes could lend their expertise and scientists, to measure and report on radon for example

could then work with enterprise ireland to help any companies who wish to use the radon data to sell antiradon products and so on

but hey why bother with all that

Delancey

The RPB also licence x-ray machines which the charges for they have jacked up significantly in the last few years.
A dental x-ray machine is much more expensive to register in the republic when compared to the north - just another reason why Dental Services in the north are cheaper.
What ever happened to the ' bonfire of the quangoes ' Fine Gael promised ?

Curly Judge

Delancey wrote: »

The RPB also licence x-ray machines which the charges for they have jacked up significantly in the last few years.
A dental x-ray machine is much more expensive to register in the republic when compared to the north - just another reason why Dental Services in the north are cheaper.
What ever happened to the ' bonfire of the quangoes ' Fine Gael promised ?

They decided instead to make a bonfire of their pre-election vanities.

Bumski

The comparison of costs between Northern Ireland and the Republic is somewhat confused by the billions in subvention received by NI from the UK every year. Perhaps if we could persuade someone to give us an equivalent per capita subvention (that we of course wouldn't have to pay back!) we could have cheaper services in the Republic (including dental). I reckon that very roughly speaking the equivalent amount would be in the region of 15 billion! I'd be all for reducing the number of quangos but I'd prefer to see it done rationally rather than by "bonfire" not risk throwing the baby out with the bathwater. I reckon there must be savings to be made across all back room activities.

ei.sdraob

Bumski wrote: »

The comparison of costs between Northern Ireland and the Republic is somewhat confused by the billions in subvention received by NI from the UK every year. Perhaps if we could persuade someone to give us an equivalent per capita subvention (that we of course wouldn't have to pay back!) we could have cheaper services in the Republic (including dental). I reckon that very roughly speaking the equivalent amount would be in the region of 15 billion! I'd be all for reducing the number of quangos but I'd prefer to see it done rationally rather than by "bonfire" not risk throwing the baby out with the bathwater. I reckon there must be savings to be made across all back room activities.

But Ireland is not receiving billions from EU/IMF

murphaph

Sticky_Fingers wrote: »

In all seriousness though the recent decision by many countries to phase out nuclear is a catastrophic mistake and I fear that once they realize their error it will be too late to rectify it.

Agree. I thought Merkel was effectively brow beaten into her decision here. She's a scientist and understands these matters well enough. She took a wholly political decision, which IMO is the wrong one.

Germany (a country with very few natural resources) will be kicking itself for phasing out nuclear energy way too early.

ei.sdraob

murphaph wrote: »

Agree. I thought Merkel was effectively brow beaten into her decision here. She's a scientist and understands these matters well enough. She took a wholly political decision, which IMO is the wrong one.

Germany (a country with very few natural resources) will be kicking itself for phasing out nuclear energy way too early.

Speaking of Germany as was predicted by me they are replacing nuclear with coal

ei.sdraob wrote: »

As predicted by me earlier in thread

Our friends in Germany who to so much fanfare went about closing nuclear plants, will now replace them with ... ... coal plants :rolleyes:

And the NYMBYs are scuttling plans for renewables with no progress on the "smartgrid" as (surprise surprise) not many want their landscape covered in wind-generators and powerlines.

testicle

bbam wrote: »

We don't need them...

Once Eirgrid complete the East-West Interconnector we'll be connected to the UK Nuclear grid and use their's

http://www.eirgridprojects.com/projects/east-westinterconnector/

We're already interconnected to the UK Grid.

ei.sdraob

testicle wrote: »

We're already interconnected to the UK Grid.

Yes to NI

East-West is adding 500MW link (we would need about 12 more of these if we want to go 100% wind, 6 more if we want to have 50% generated from wind and so on)

Mind you at 600 million a pop you could see how expensive the wind option becomes, and of course this cable is already costing more than a similar length one between UK and NL, because this is Ireland....

Joey the lips

I have no problem with nuclear energy.... Its the waste i have a problem with...

for that reason i would rather burn candles....

I think the closest we should come to nuclear energy is the uk interconnector.

The Outside Agency

I have to laugh at the pro nuclear camp..do you think it's simply a matter of throwing a lump of uranium into a reactor and it starts generating energy?

It takes energy to make energy and nuclear energy is expensive.

If you believe it's the solution to Irelands energy problem, you don't understand the economics well enough.

ei.sdraob

nivekd wrote: »

I have to laugh at the pro nuclear camp..do you think it's simply a matter of throwing a lump of uranium into a reactor and it starts generating energy?

It takes energy to make energy and nuclear energy is expensive.

If you believe it's the solution to Irelands energy problem, you don't understand the economics well enough.

According to Eirgrid its cheaper than Wind (even when waste disposal as per Finland's experience is included), and of course reliable...

@Joey the lips
Take a few lessons from the Finnish
Considering that a good chunk of the Irish population is already living close to several reactors one cant help but point out at the hypocrisy, tho it might explain few things about Dubs


anyways thats not what the thread is about, we do need a thread on whatever happened to FGs quango massacre plans, they seems to have been quietly swept under carpet.

The Outside Agency

ei.sdraob wrote: »

According to Eirgrid its cheaper than Wind (even when waste disposal as per Finland's experience is included), and of course reliable...

If it's cheaper, why does the nuclear industry receive generous subsidies and tax breaks to keep it going? Why is the cost of decomissioning power stations left to the taxpayer? Why is disposal of waste so expensive? Pro nuclear lobbyists usually have vested interest and little concern for taxpayer or environment so they constantly tell the public "we need nuclear energy" -- do we really?

We could debate the pros and cons of all sources of energy and you might argue waste can be recycled using breeder reactors and that nuclear companies fund their own decommisioning operations because "it's the law"

Realistically though, private firms disregard the law to maximise profits and breeder reactors can only recycle some of the waste, not all of it...it still has to be dumped somewhere.

I'm not pro-anything and i'm not anti-nuclear either but I try to look at all energy sources objectively rather than hold the firm belief nuclear power is the only solution out there.

Nuclear fuel is cheap, yes.. but Nuclear power isn't and never has been, I don't care what Eirgrid said.

pljudge321

nivekd wrote: »

If it's cheaper, why does the nuclear industry receive generous subsidises and tax breaks to keep it going? Why is the cost of decomissioning power stations left to the taxpayer? Why is disposal of waste so expensive? Pro nuclear lobbyists usually have vested interest and little concern for taxpayer or environment so they constantly tell the public "we need nuclear energy" -- do we really?

Wind receives the exact same thing.

The answer your looking for is not yet but we will in 20 years or so.


For anyone interested in getting a good overview of all issues, advantages etc regarding wind I'd recommend this: http://srren.ipcc-wg3.de/report/IPCC_SRREN_Ch07.pdf

The Outside Agency

pljudge321 wrote: »

Wind receives the exact same thing.

The answer your looking for is not yet but we will in 20 years or so.


For anyone interested in getting a good overview of all issues, advantages etc regarding wind I'd recommend this: http://srren.ipcc-wg3.de/report/IPCC_SRREN_Ch07.pdf

As I said, not pro-anything.

nivekd wrote:

I'm not pro-anything and i'm not anti-nuclear either but I try to look at all energy sources objectively rather than hold the firm belief nuclear power is the only solution out there.

pljudge321

nivekd wrote: »

As I said, not pro-anything.

I didn't say you were.

ei.sdraob

@nivekd

Wind generation in Ireland is highly subsidised, the wind generators also get priority in the rigged marketplace called the single electricity market which means existing conventional thermal plants are left idle or under utilised or worse the constant startup/shutdowns result in more wear and tear which is not exactly "Green"

And the these generators of course dont want to pay for the grid infrastructure needed to connect them and accommodate the highly variable production which only works 19% of time (see eirgrid stats for wind)

Why does a country which according to wind industry lobby is the "gulf" of wind need subsidies anyways? Neither are these turbines and import of them "green"

TheTimes wrote:

Just outside the heavily polluted industrial city of Baotou, Inner Mongolia, surrounded by smokestacks, lies a lake with no name.

At this time of year the lake bed freezes into waves of solid mud. In summer, locals say, it oozes a viscous, red liquid. It is a “tailing lake”, where toxic rare earth elements from a mine 100 miles away are stored for further processing.

Seepage from the lake has poisoned the surrounding farmland. “The crops stopped growing after being watered in these fields,” said Wang Cun Gang, a farmer. The local council paid villagers compensation for loss of income. “They tested our water and concluded that neither people nor animals should drink it, nor is it usable for irrigation.”

This is the price Chinese peasants are paying for the low carbon future. Rare earths, a class of metallic elements that are highly reactive, are essential for the next generation of “green” technologies. The battery in a Toyota Prius car contains more than 22lb of lanthanum. Low-energy lightbulbs need terbium. The permanent magnets used in a 3 megawatt wind turbine use 2 tons of neodymium and other rare earths.

In small workshops near Baotou, workers wearing no protective clothing watch over huge vats of acid and other chemicals, steam rising from rusty pipes, as they stir and bag toxic liquids and powders, turning the rare earth elements into compounds and oxides for further processing into batteries and magnets. Wearing no masks, they breathe air heavy with fumes and dust and handle chemicals without gloves.

A thousand miles to the southeast, in Jiangxi province, the extraction process is more damaging. Green hills are studded with makeshift plants which pump acid into the earth. Last September villagers in Pitou county blocked lorries carrying chemicals and picketed the council, angry that their fields had been ruined.

“We farm rice but cannot harvest anything any more,” said a woman, who was afraid to give her name because her husband is still in prison for protesting. “Fruit trees don’t bear fruit any more. Fish die in the river. We used to wash in the river and lots of fish would come to us, but there are none left. Even the weeds died.”

Officially the polluting plants have been closed down, but villagers say they still operate at night, under armed guard, with the collusion of local Communist party leaders who help mafia bosses keep the lucrative trade going.

Anyways you are going offtopic again

The Outside Agency

ei.sdraob wrote: »

Anyways you are going offtopic again

Sorry?

ei.sdraob

nivekd wrote: »

Sorry?

Theres a great thread somewhere on the subject of nuclear power in the Infrastructure forum (its the one above this forum on the main menu at top) on the subject, well worth reading

The Outside Agency

Little or no private investment...there's a good reason.
..it's very expensive.