Who will be the new blood for Ireland?

leonard7

Sadly some of the greats of the last 10 years are now coming to the end of their career but who is going to fill gaps? So in peoples opinion which players under the age of 23 are going to be figuring in the Ireland set up...the average age of the welsh backline was 23 so what would be ours?

Hagz

Andrew Conway not this year, but soon.

phog

From Munster I'd have high hopes for JJ Hanrahan, Simon Zebo, Dave O'Calaghan and Peter O'Mahoney. Throw in Paddy Butler if he gets the game time in Munster.

Monty Burnz

If we were Australia, guys like Hanrahan would already be being fast-tracked into the team being built for 2015.

CatFromHue

Monty Burnz wrote: »

If we were Australia, guys like Hanrahan would already be being fast-tracked into the team being built for 2015.

This doesn't make a lot of sense Monty! How can you fast track a guy into the team for a tournament that's 4 years away?

Monty Burnz

CatFromHue wrote: »

This doesn't make a lot of sense Monty! How can you fast track a guy into the team for a tournament that's 4 years away?

When did Aus start building for 2011? And NZ? We don't have the depth of talent that NZ have, but we should give Aus a run for their money.

Fishooks12

phog wrote: »

From Munster I'd have high hopes for JJ Hanrahan, Simon Zebo, Dave O'Calaghan and Peter O'Mahoney. Throw in Paddy Butler if he gets the game time in Munster.

Paddy and JJ will have to establish themselves at Munster first so we might not see them in contention for a cap for another year or 2

danthefan

All the young players in the Aus team who were fast tracked (Pocock, Genia, JOC for example) all happen to be exceptionally talented, far more so than any young players we have here.

Has Hanrahan even started an ML game yet?

sock puppet

Monty Burnz wrote: »

When did Aus start building for 2011? And NZ? We don't have the depth of talent that NZ have, but we should give Aus a run for their money.

In fairness most of Australia's new players only really emerged around 2009-2010. Cooper and Beale have been around for years but the selectors waited until they were good enough. Any new players should at least be fairly established provincial players.

Monty Burnz

danthefan wrote: »

Has Hanrahan even started an ML game yet?

I'm not speaking specifically about Hanrahan, I'm just talking about identifying the young guys who have the talent to be at the WC in 4 years and fast-tracking them into the national team.

Monty Burnz

sock puppet wrote: »

Any new players should at least be fairly established provincial players.

Exactly - this is the first step towards getting them into the national team. I'm not talking about parachuting 17-year-olds into the squad from some SC team or something. The trick is getting them playing ML level rather than having their progress held up by the older players ahead of them. Witness the age profile of Munster and the 'young' 26-year-old guys who are still looking to break through behind them.

The national coach needs to be in a position where he can insist that specifically identified players like Jamie Hagan get 15-20 ML and/or HEC games (ahead of older/imported players) so they get the exposure they need to develop into international candidates.

irishbucsfan

Hopefully we go for the Grand Slam now. Given that, I reckon our squad will be pretty much the same.

Healy, Court, Hagan, Ross
Best, Cronin, Fla/Sherry
O'Connell, O'Callaghan, Cullen/Tuohy/Toner,
Ferris, O'Brien, Heaslip, Wallace, Donnacha Ryan, Jennings?
Murray, Reddan, Boss,
Sexton, O'Gara
O'Driscoll, D'Arcy, Fitzgerald/Spence
Bowe, Earls, Trimble, Gilroy?
Kearney, Jones

Something like that. Then next Summer/Autumn they can concentrate on blooding some youth.

jacothelad

It would be a good 'sticky' thread if we had one in which we got regular updates and reports on the progress of those who we see as the hope for the future. We do however need to be realistic and simply not blow the trumpets of players from our own team. A cold eye is needed to see through the hype of certain players and to recognise their limitations as well as their abilities.


At Ulster we have:

Spence. 26 / 4 / 90, who seems to fit the bill now in his own unique style. He is not a 'new' Darcy or poor man's BOD. He is a really good player in his own way. Very fast, incredibly strong and plays without fear or inhibition. Is incredibly good at chasing and even winning restart kicks among other things. He is a brutally effective tackler who takes no prisoners. He is the best centre Ulster have had since Dick Milliken or Mike Gibson. We need him to get selected for Ireland quickly before any vestige of ability is drained away by the 'coaches' at Ulster. He seems able to operate at 12 and 13 so inevitably this means that if he gets called up to the Ireland squad it will be as a winger. 8/10

Gilroy. 1 / 3 / 91 Craig is often touted as a certainty as a future wing. 9 tries in 19 starts. He has a great knack of doing the right thing and is a slippery customer who seems to ghost out of tackles. However, this masks to some extent the fact that he lacks a little real top end pace. He is however a likely candidate for a wider squad. His defence and catching and line kicking are pretty decent. 7/10

Luke Marshall. 3 / 3 / 91. Seemed a cert a while ago to be in the mix. Definitely has or seems to have the skills needed to be an Ireland player but has not been as eye catching this season. His defence is good, he sees what is going on around him and is pretty quick and his ability is not in question. We do know of course that you actually need more than the skills. I think we will know more as the season progresses if we have a real candidate or not. 6.5/10

Darren Cave. 5 / 4 / 87. He makes everything look really easy at 13. He is perhaps the most naturally gifted of our 13s after BOD. Is he quick enough at 13 for the international shirt? Possibly not but again he is perhaps deceptive in this regard. As a player I have no doubt that he wouldn't look out of place. He has good defence, passes well and scores a lot of tries. Overall I think he just lacks that extra bit of sheer power and edge that separates the good from the great. 6.5/10

Paddy Jackson. 5 / 1 / 92. Has ability but seems to be fading a bit as he comes up against the real deal in the league. Poor goal kicking has developed. He was once very good in this regard at schools level. Remember his kicking at the Aviva opener. Brilliant. He has now been coached by Ulster's kicking coach - one Niel Doak so I'm not surprised. Too soon to tell really based on what we have seen this season, an outside shot in a couple of years on current viewing. Could be absolutely brilliant and has time on his hands as he is still only 19 and eligible for the U20s I think. 5/10.

Dan Tuohy. 18 / 6 / 85. Born in England so some will automatically dismiss him as not Irish. Has been Ulster's outstanding second row all season. Has played some great games in the lineout and in the loose. 6'5" and about 18 stone combined with a very athletic type of game and the speed of a decent backrow player. If DOC is deemed surplus to requirements is he the type of player Kidney will select? I doubt it. Although he is heavier, faster, a better lineout operator and more skilled than Ryan I'm sure Donnacha will get the nod. 7.5 / 10.

Paddy McAllister. 20 / 7 / 89. A lot of people think he can go all the way. I have my doubts. He is very good in the loose for such a big man but as always if you can't scrummage really well, you have a problem. As Ulster basically have no prop / scrum coach I don't see him getting any better. I would love to be proven wrong. 5 / 10

ambid

@Jaco - what about Whitten and Falloon? Do they have the potential for test level?

jacothelad

ambid wrote: »

@Jaco - what about Whitten and Falloon? Do they have the potential for test level?

Whitten was once a very skilful centre turned into a bosher by Ulster. He is big, strong and fast. He probably would fare a lot better going to another club. He has actually played very well on the wing this season. I don't think he is as good as Spence or potentially L. Marshall at 12. While he wouldn't let Ireland down I think he would be low on the likely pecking order. I certainly would have no fear that he would embarrass the team, he is too good for that.

Faloon is too small and not good enough anyway. Has a decent game mostly but not near international standard. Not a hope.

Apart from Tuohy, Best and Court there are no forwards at Ulster within a country mile of a green shirt. Some are decent players who give their all. Chris Henry for example but would he get 25 starts a year at Munster and Leinster? Not a snowball's chance. Faloon wouldn't make the squads there. Lewis Stevenson is an outside bet as he is big and abrasive - a bit like DOC's style of game only taller.

CIARAN_BOYLE

jacothelad wrote: »

Apart from Tuohy, Best and Court there are no forwards at Ulster within a country mile of a green shirt. Some are decent players who give their all. Chris Henry for example but would he get 25 starts a year at Munster and Leinster? Not a snowball's chance. Faloon wouldn't make the squads there. Lewis Stevenson is an outside bet as he is big and abrasive - a bit like DOC's style of game only taller.

Ferris?

I agree with you about Henry. I'd rate him and Ruddock around the same level. Ruddock just has the advantage of being 6 years younger and being one who can improve.

jacothelad

CIARAN_BOYLE wrote: »

Ferris?

oooooooooooooooops

wixfjord

Hagz wrote: »

Andrew Conway not this year, but soon.

wixfjord

Monty Burnz wrote: »

When did Aus start building for 2011? And NZ? We don't have the depth of talent that NZ have, but we should give Aus a run for their money.

In fairness, that's what Aus have had to do. If you look at it, bar Giteau, there's nobody else really that is older and deserves their place.

jasper11

what do people think of ian nagles chances? i not seen who lot of him but he did seem to have potential. but from what i av seen of him he seems to lack bit of aggression which he would need as international lock

wixfjord

jasper11 wrote: »

what do people think of ian nagles chances? i not seen who lot of him but he did seem to have potential. but from what i av seen of him he seems to lack bit of aggression which he would need as international lock

Toner and Nagle would be a seriously underpowered second row in terms of aggression, but great in the lineout.
I'm very interested in how both of these guys emerge, many forget that Toner is still only 25, a virtual baby for a second row, and he's done very well in the HEC when called upon, Wasps in the RDS and Sarries away last year being good examples, which neither Nagle or Ryan has been.

Fishooks12

wixfjord wrote: »

Toner and Nagle would be a seriously underpowered second row in terms of aggression, but great in the lineout.
I'm very interested in how both of these guys emerge, many forget that Toner is still only 25, a virtual baby for a second row, and he's done very well in the HEC when called upon, Wasps in the RDS and Sarries away last year being good examples, which neither Nagle or Ryan has been.

Toner could be a surprise package this year

He's put on serious beef over the summer and is playing well too

tolosenc

In terms of the squad the panel gave for the 6 Nations opener after the match this morning, I'd only majorly disagree on one choice. Hook said Keith earls would see his international career come to an abrupt end if he doesn't sort out his defence, for me he's already done at this level.

(For anyone who didn't catch it, they suggested the following for the opener in Cardiff: Healy, Best, Ross, O'Connell, Ferris, O'Brien, Dom Ryan, Heaslip, Murray, Sexton, Earls, BOD, Bowe, Trimble, Kearney - I'd have Trimble at 11, Bowe at 14 and bring in Spence to 13)

@jaco - If I was picking the team, Gilroy, Marshall, Spence, Tuohy, Best, Trimble and Ferris would all be in the squad. Cave looks promising, but as for the others, I'm unsure.

From Leinster we have established young players in Healy, O'Brien, Sexton, Fitzgerald and Rob Kearney. Players in the squad now that could well become more permanent fixtures in the Ireland set up are Carr, Conway, Hagan, Dave Kearney, Macken, Madigan, McFadden, McGrath, O'Malley, Ruddock, Ryan, Strauss, Sykes(?), and Toner. Sykes is a project player, AFAIK, so Ireland caps are a possibility, haven't seen any of him yet though.

In the academy there are also a few impressive players. Sheridan at 12 if he can stay fit is a real prospect, Luke McGrath could be an exceptional player at SH. Jordi Murphy is very good but will have one hell of a job establishing himself as a backrow player in a Leinster team with a glut of quality in that area. Hudson(wing) and O'Connell(prop) have also looked decent.

danthefan

Have to say I don't ever see Toner as a long term option for Ireland. Not physical enough at all imo.

wixfjord

tolosenc wrote: »

In terms of the squad the panel gave for the 6 Nations opener after the match this morning, I'd only majorly disagree on one choice. Hook said Keith earls would see his international career come to an abrupt end if he doesn't sort out his defence, for me he's already done at this level.

(For anyone who didn't catch it, they suggested the following for the opener in Cardiff: Healy, Best, Ross, O'Connell, Ferris, O'Brien, Dom Ryan, Heaslip, Murray, Sexton, Earls, BOD, Bowe, Trimble, Kearney - I'd have Trimble at 11, Bowe at 14 and bring in Spence to 13)

@jaco - If I was picking the team, Gilroy, Marshall, Spence, Tuohy, Best, Trimble and Ferris would all be in the squad. Cave looks promising, but as for the others, I'm unsure.

From Leinster we have established young players in Healy, O'Brien, Sexton, Fitzgerald and Rob Kearney. Players in the squad now that could well become more permanent fixtures in the Ireland set up are Carr, Conway, Hagan, Dave Kearney, Macken, Madigan, McFadden, McGrath, O'Malley, Ruddock, Ryan, Strauss, Sykes(?), and Toner. Sykes is a project player, AFAIK, so Ireland caps are a possibility, haven't seen any of him yet though.

In the academy there are also a few impressive players. Sheridan at 12 if he can stay fit is a real prospect, Luke McGrath could be an exceptional player at SH. Jordi Murphy is very good but will have one hell of a job establishing himself as a backrow player in a Leinster team with a glut of quality in that area. Hudson(wing) and O'Connell(prop) have also looked decent.

I reckon Jordi Murphy and that Brewer kid will usurp Ruddock and Locky when the time comes. Plenty of space for em all!
It's actually crazy how many good players the Leinster Academy is producing, just a brief look at the Championship in England will show a lot, and the likes of Morris and Maguire and Jones could all be Ireland starters. Definitely the best youth set up in Europe.

ambid

danthefan wrote: »

Have to say I don't ever see Toner as a long term option for Ireland. Not physical enough at all imo.

Toner has been much more physical so far this year and has been much better than last year. He does tend to start the season well and then fade, but if he can build on his performances so far this year then he could be very good.

I wouldn't be surprised if he held his place for the Heineken this year and maybe pushed Tuohy and Ryan for a place in the Irish six nations squad.

CatFromHue

ambid wrote: »

Toner has been much more physical so far this year and has been much better than last year. He does tend to start the season well and then fade, but if he can build on his performances so far this year then he could be very good.

I wouldn't be surprised if he held his place for the Heineken this year and maybe pushed Tuohy and Ryan for a place in the Irish six nations squad.

I think he fades cos he doesn't get much game time in the second half of the season so he loses form.

Toner started against Samoa and then came on against New Zealand last season and in fairness he did well in both those games.

With Hines gone I hope he can establish himself for Leinster but with Cullen, Browne and Sykes also in competition he has his work cut out.

Hagz

wixfjord wrote: »

I reckon Jordi Murphy and that Brewer kid will usurp Ruddock and Locky when the time comes.

Really?! I can understand Brewer but Murphy? Murphy is just a year younger than Ruddock.

wixfjord

Hagz wrote: »

Really?! I can understand Brewer but Murphy? Murphy is just a year younger than Ruddock.

Which is 19!!
He hasn't even started a senior game for Leinster yet, which is understandable given the names ahead of him!

GerM

wixfjord wrote: »

Which is 19!!
He hasn't even started a senior game for Leinster yet, which is understandable given the names ahead of him!

Indeed he did. He got 80 minutes in the Scarlets game. Was a bit above him but he didn't do himself any harm.

Hagz

wixfjord wrote: »

Which is 19!!
He hasn't even started a senior game for Leinster yet, which is understandable given the names ahead of him!

Yeh but do you really think he'll usurp 20 yr old Rhys Ruddock? Surely you rate Ruddock higher than him. I think Ruddock, O'Brien, Heaslip and Ryan will be the mainstays with Brewer coming in much later.
Gilsenan and Coughlan are two names that shouldn't be overlooked either. With all those names down, I just can't see where Murphy fits in. He's a good player alright, but I think he falls short.

tolosenc

danthefan wrote: »

Have to say I don't ever see Toner as a long term option for Ireland. Not physical enough at all imo.

He has looked a lot better this year, and comparing his stats to last year, it seems that he's put on the guts of a stone in that time.

He has the potential to be a good physical player, he just seems to lack the agression that could make him a much better player.

circos

tolosenc wrote: »

He has looked a lot better this year, and comparing his stats to last year, it seems that he's put on the guts of a stone in that time.

He has the potential to be a good physical player, he just seems to lack the agression that could make him a much better player.

Hes also seemed to improved his attacking hits, his try against Connacht was a great demonstration of what hes learned. He ran a great line, crouched low, hit the defender, blasted him out of the way and over the line. Never seen him even attempt that before.

shuffol

Murphy was probably the pick of the backrows in the Irish u-20 side last season, looks a good player, versatile but not sure if he'll be top class in any one position. I'm not convincedabout Ruddock, has looked very impressive by times but just seems a bit awkward to me, dont know if he has the mobility for international rugby but would be happy to be proved wrong.

One guy people arent mentioning but is a cracking talent is Niall Annett, lot of hookers up at Ulster with Kyriacou and Brady but I'd say he should be able to leapfrog those two in the next season.

GerM

Great idea, Jaco. Good to see a run down of the resources in Ulster; the amount of coverage they receive is in stark contrast to the level of exposure the young players of Munster and Leinster get.

To give my thoughts on the potential Leinster internationals for the next year:

Toner 29/6/86: He already has 3 caps to his name and should add more. As mentioned previously, he always appears to suffer from a lack of games when the front liners are around and he becomes a peripheral figure. With games under his belt, he has shown he has the talent. He has acquitted himself well previously and won MOTM in a HEC encounter whilst regularly showing up well. He seems to have added a more dynamic aspect to his game this season. His line for the try against Connacht was something that we never saw from him before. If he can get decent game time this season, he should be going to NZ next summer. Cannot underestimate his potential in the line out. Put him in the air and see how opposition struggle with him. At 25, he potentially has 10 years of professional rugby left in him.

Dom Ryan 28/3/90: Blistering breakthrough season last year. Unfortunately in a position where he's not needed though. If he can round out his game and become a genuine top class 7, there's a big future for him. Can give away stupid penalties but has improved hugely in that respect. Destructive tackler, immensely powerful and decent in the line out but needs to improve ball carrying.

Rhys Ruddock 13/11/90: Probably the biggest hope after getting his first cap as a 19 year old last season. Possibly stagnated somewhat as Ryan took more of the plaudits but showed up very well in his one HEC start against Racing. Powerful carrier and good line out jumper. Highly rated within the camp and has the captaincy at 20. Unfortunate that he is also in a position that we're not short in. Can play 6 or 8 but his game lends itself to 6 more at this point until his hands and experience catch up with his power.

Jamie Hagan 5/4/87: Mobile and powerful tighthead that should have a big future within the international game. If Greg Feek can work his magic with him he'll be the cornerstone of the Irish pack. He's already a decent scrummager but could be much more. Eager in the loose and carries decently. His height gives us an extra few inches come line out time also which we've missed since Hayes departed. He is in no better place to improve his game with Ross and Feek working alongside him.

Dave Kearney 19/6/89: Tends to be overshadowed by his more illustrious brother but he's arguably as naturally talented. Great eye for a gap and very industrious. Not the out and out scorer that we might be looking for but more of an all round winger. Has played 13 and 15 which reflects his skillset. More than capable of stepping up to a higher level but may have to move for that opportunity. Next season will be his big opportunity with Fitz potentially in the centre and Horgan facing retirement.

I don't think there are any others that will be in contention for the Irish squad over the next season. Conway has missed his opportunity through injury which is horribly unfortunate given the exact same happened to him during the 6N. Next season will be the year for him to shine I think. From the academy it's well worth keeping an eye on Jordan Coughlan, Conor Gilsenan (who could be a solution as a 7), Luke McGrath and the two propping machines, Martin Moore and Tadhg Furlong. Moore was outstanding in the U20 6N at tighthead and was one of our stars, keeping Furlong out of the side. Unfortunately he was injured for the U20 WC thus Furlong got in the side and equalled anything Moore had done at a year younger. He's also an ambiprop. The older academy players such as Reid, Ruddock and Marshall are good but I don't think they have the required class to go to the top of the game.

David900

@jaco - I'd be interested in what you think about Paul Marshall, I thought last year he looked a real prospect. He seems to offer the opposite of Murray (who I presume will feature heavily for Ireland) in that he is snappy scrumhalf. Admittedly I haven't seen many Ulster games this year but last season looked quite good in his brief appearances - I did see one where he looked quite poor this season and the fact Ulster didn't trust him as first choice when Boss left perhaps speaks volumes. I just looked up his stats and was surprised that he is 26!!

Edit: Just found this on his wikipedia page: He was also notable the recipient of several wedgies during his high school life. These may have caused the distress that caused him to vent his anger on the rugby pitch.

Who wants to take a bet that started from within the Ulster team???

Monty Burnz

David900 wrote: »

Who wants to take a bet that started from within the Ulster team???

Either that, or the guy whose only claim to fame was that he gave Marshall a wedgie when he was 7 years old.

phog

Munster Players that will come into the National side in the next couple of years.

Danny Barnes 7/10/89 Centre or Winger. Probably end up as a centre. Probably needs to bulk up a bit but oozes talent.

Felix Jones 5/8/87, has a couple of Irish caps already and barring his injury would have featured in the W/Cup.

Ian Nagle 17/10/88, Lock. Will need to get decent game time in Munster but if he does will certainly make the Irish team. Would love to see him partner POC for a couple of games with Munster.

Peter O’Mahony 17/9/89, Backrow. Has captained Munster for most if not all the games so far this season.

Mike Sherry 18/6/88. Hooker. Should be first choice hooker in Munster, even if Fla was back, Sherry is the future. Travelled out to the W/C as cover for Best but didn’t join the squad.

Simon Zebo 16/3/90 Wing. Hopefully, we’ll see lots more of this guy, speed to burn.

Other that I see coming into the National side before the next W/C

Stephen Archer. 29/1/88. Prop. I have been impressed with I've seen of him and would like to think he'll develop even more with gametime.

Paddy Butler 1/12/90 No8. Coughlan (30) will be around for a while yet but I hope Butler pushes him for his place though he is not getting nearly enough gametime at the moment.

Dave O’Callgahan 12/1/90 Backrow, is certainly a player of the future in Munster and Ireland.

JJ Hanrahan 27/7/92 Outhalf/Centre, I think he’ll have to make the Outhalf his preferred position, if he ends up being a jack of all trades, he’ll master none and he looks a fine outhalf.

Risteard

I'm honestly not sure about Barnes if I'm perfectly honest. He's done well in his appearances thus far but realistically, in attack, I haven't seen much to suggest that he'll get ahead of the others in what is going to be a very competitive position in the future.

Archer's scrummaging will hopefully improve more. It's been better this season and he's done well against some Pro12 teams but showed up badly against Duncan Jones. The presence of BJ should help him. I hope he's not going to be another guy that was shoved into prop because he's a big strong guy.

Been impressed with Zebo and think he was deserving of more game time earlier this year. But again, it'll be a very competitive position.

Nagle has been pretty much outstanding whenever I've seen him and a couple of MOTM performances last year suggests some good potential. But again, will mgmt. actually put him ahead of MOD or Ryan?

POM has been our best player so far IMO. Really impressed with him. Will be interesting to see if they pay him at 7 for the HC.

Mike Sherry will hopefully stake a claim for a HC spot this season though apparently he's out for a few weeks.

Haven't seen much of Butler/DOC2/Hanrahan.

Though DOC2 looks plenty big for someone his age and Hanrahan impressed me in the U20 match against England last 6 Nations I think it was.

But the question has to be asked, will we bite the bullet and play these guys or will they only get a couple of minutes off the bench here an there and if they do perform well, will they be rewarded in the big games?

jacothelad

David900 wrote: »

@jaco - I'd be interested in what you think about Paul Marshall, I thought last year he looked a real prospect. He seems to offer the opposite of Murray (who I presume will feature heavily for Ireland) in that he is snappy scrumhalf. Admittedly I haven't seen many Ulster games this year but last season looked quite good in his brief appearances - I did see one where he looked quite poor this season and the fact Ulster didn't trust him as first choice when Boss left perhaps speaks volumes. I just looked up his stats and was surprised that he is 26!!

Edit: Just found this on his wikipedia page: He was also notable the recipient of several wedgies during his high school life. These may have caused the distress that caused him to vent his anger on the rugby pitch.

Who wants to take a bet that started from within the Ulster team???

Paul Marshall has many very desirable qualities found in good rugby players. He is very fast, very strong for a small man and completely fearless. he would tackle a charging rhino and put it down. Sadly, while he has a great pass, it rarely, rarely goes where he wants it or indeed where anyone on the Ulster team are actually located. He is often the cause of Ulster failing to make good from promising positions. Takes an age to get the ball away, is as likely to hit the ground with the ball or throw it over Humphrey's head as he is to get it anywhere near a white shirt. As for his box kicking, a blind, one legged wombat would be an improvement. His contract was about to expire and not be renewed when Boss declined to re-sign thus affording a stay of execution to Paul. Good for Paul, terrible for Ulster.

irishbucsfan

jacothelad wrote: »

Paul Marshall has many very desirable qualities found in good rugby players. He is very fast, very strong for a small man and completely fearless. he would tackle a charging rhino and put it down. Sadly, while he has a great pass, it rarely, rarely goes where he wants it or indeed where anyone on the Ulster team are actually located. He is often the cause of Ulster failing to make good from promising positions. Takes an age to get the ball away, is as likely to hit the ground with the ball or throw it over Humphrey's head as he is to get it anywhere near a white shirt. As for his box kicking, a blind, one legged wombat would be an improvement. His contract was about to expire and not be renewed when Boss declined to re-sign thus affording a stay of execution to Paul. Good for Paul, terrible for Ulster.

What about the young lads, Porter/McIlroy?

tolosenc

Slightly OT, but what was Frankie Sheahan's suggestion for giving the minnows a better shot? And for that matter the others.

phog

Risteard wrote: »

I'm honestly not sure about Barnes if I'm perfectly honest. He's done well in his appearances thus far but realistically, in attack, I haven't seen much to suggest that he'll get ahead of the others in what is going to be a very competitive position in the future.

I'm happy enough with Barnes and think with gametime he'll improve even more, I'd like to think he can push for a place on the Irish team but when it come to International games, I want the best player on the field, if that player is from another province then so be it.

Archer's scrummaging will hopefully improve more. It's been better this season and he's done well against some Pro12 teams but showed up badly against Duncan Jones. The presence of BJ should help him. I hope he's not going to be another guy that was shoved into prop because he's a big strong guy.

Archer is 23, Jones is a tough nut for most props so it's a bit harsh to compare Archer's scrummaging against Jones'. My hope is that he'll learn from games like that.

Monty Burnz

Risteard wrote: »

I'm honestly not sure about Barnes if I'm perfectly honest. He's done well in his appearances thus far but realistically, in attack, I haven't seen much to suggest that he'll get ahead of the others in what is going to be a very competitive position in the future.

Unless there's more jiggling with the rules, I think the days of the 14 stone, 6 foot centre may be drawing to a close, more's the pity. It's a sad state of affairs but it looks like the only place the 'average' sized and shaped guys will be able to get a game at the elite level will be on the wings and scrum-half.

Risteard

phog wrote: »

I'm happy enough with Barnes and think with gametime he'll improve even more, I'd like to think he can push for a place on the Irish team but when it come to International games, I want the best player on the field, if that player is from another province then so be it.



Archer is 23, Jones is a tough nut for most props so it's a bit harsh to compare Archer's scrummaging against Jones'. My hope is that he'll learn from games like that.

I agree, wouldn't be writing either of them off, particularly Archer as he has a while to learn hopefully he will earn from those types of games.

As far Barnes, still a bit early but I do think it might be harder for him to impress because our backline play hasn't exactly been stellar regardless of who plays there, so not necessarily a reflection on him more of his circumstances.

ambid

jacothelad wrote: »

Paul Marshall has many very desirable qualities found in good rugby players. He is very fast, very strong for a small man and completely fearless. he would tackle a charging rhino and put it down. Sadly, while he has a great pass, it rarely, rarely goes where he wants it or indeed where anyone on the Ulster team are actually located. He is often the cause of Ulster failing to make good from promising positions. Takes an age to get the ball away, is as likely to hit the ground with the ball or throw it over Humphrey's head as he is to get it anywhere near a white shirt. As for his box kicking, a blind, one legged wombat would be an improvement. His contract was about to expire and not be renewed when Boss declined to re-sign thus affording a stay of execution to Paul. Good for Paul, terrible for Ulster.

That's a very considered, but pretty devastating assessment.

Remind me never to get on the wrong side of you

jacothelad

irishbucsfan wrote: »

What about the young lads, Porter/McIlroy?

Porter seemed to be on the right ttrack for a while and then had a horrible injury which kept him out of sight for a season. He is a better player than Small Paul but then that wouldn't be hard. Porter was also a very good place kicker but he won't get a chance to even practice under the current set up. He has rarely got an opportunity to get experience at league level which is a shame. 5 sub appearances. The guy is 23 and hasn't started a league game. Very poor management by McLaughlin.

I'm sure you have all seen McIlroy's less than stellar showing for the Ireland U20s. I'll be surprised but delighted if he gets any better to be honest.

Perhaps Pienaar will help bring these guys on. Ulster need something to start going right this season and these young men need to be treated and coached properly or they are wasting valuable years of their lives.

shuffol

On the scrumhalf front Murray will own the jersey for the forseeable future, havent seen anyone in the underage sides capable of stepping up to even provincial rugby let alone international rugby, lets hope Luke Mcgrath lives up to his hype, should be in the Irish u-20 side this season and we'll know more about his potential then.

Anytime I've seen Ian Porter I've been shocked by how poor the accuracy of his passing is, his delivery is reasonably quick but is all over the place, one bad pass in particular that stands out is when he threw the ball into the ground near the touchline a few weeks ago.

chupacabra

Surprised nobody has mentioned Tiernan O'Halloran. Outstanding rugby brain and the pace and skills to make it at the highest level on the wing. A move down to Munster would do him the world of good when Howlett decides to hang up the boots.

macslash

chupacabra wrote: »

Surprised nobody has mentioned Tiernan O'Halloran. Outstanding rugby brain and the pace and skills to make it at the highest level on the wing. A move down to Munster would do him the world of good when Howlett decides to hang up the boots.

And ML and HC rugby with Connacht won't do anything for him?!

Surprised no one has mentioned Eoin Griffin either..fantastic talent

Brian

Cool to see some of my old classmates mentioned in this thread