WC FINAL: France V NZ. Sun 9am Pre/During/Post Match Thread

justsomebloke

Preview courtesy of thomond2006

France:
15 Maxime Médard, 14 Vincent Clerc, 13 Aurélien Rougerie, 12 Maxime Mermoz, 11 Alexis Palisson, 10 Morgan Parra, 9 Dimitri Yachvili,
8 Imanol Harinordoquy, 7 Julien Bonnaire, 6 Thierry Dusautoir (c), 5 Lionel Nallet, 4 Pascal Papé, 3 Nicolas Mas, 2 William Servat, 1 Jean-Baptiste Poux.

Replacements: 16 Dimitri Szarzewski, 17 Fabien Barcella, 18 Julien Pierre, 19 Fulgence Ouedraogo, 20 Jean-Marc Doussain, 21 François Trinh-Duc, 22 Damien Traille.

New Zealand:
15 Israel Dagg, 14 Cory Jane, 13 Conrad Smith, 12 Ma'a Nonu, 11 Richard Kahui, 10 Aaron Cruden, 9 Piri Weepu,
8 Kieran Read, 7 Richie McCaw (c), 6 Jerome Kaino, 5 Brad Thorn, 4 Samuel Whitelock, 3 Owen Franks, 2 Keven Mealamu, 1 Tony Woodcock.

Replacements: 16 Andrew Hore, 17 Ben Franks, 18 Ali Williams, 19 Adam Thomson, 20 Andy Ellis, 21 Stephen Donald, 22 Sonny Bill Williams.

Date: Sunday, October 23
Kick-off: 9.00am Irish time
Venue: Eden Park, Auckland
Weather: 16°C. Clear with cloudy periods with a slight chance of showers.

Referee: Craig Joubert
Assistant referees: Alain Rolland (Ireland), Nigel Owens (Wales)
TMO: Guilio de Santis (Italy)

Finding the final piece of the Anti-Choke Puzzle is 80 minutes away from New Zealand. The holy grail of all holy grails is angonisingly close for a country who covets it more highly than any other. Everything they have built over the last 4 years ultimately comes down to this game, where these men's place in history is on the line. Should they lose, their wonderful achievements over the last 4 years will be forgotten and the 2011 squad and management will be branded as failures by the New Zealand public. When it comes to World Cups, the team that the kiwis fear the most is undoubtedly France, who have played a large part in the formation of the word association of "choke" with "All Blacks" in the minds of rugby fans across the globe!

New Zealand have yet to be truly challenged in this world cup, whether this is due to the All Blacks' quality or the dearth of quality in other teams is debatable (I suspect the latter). They have sleepwalked their way to the final, of which there was no doubt from early into the tournament they would reach. The Australia game was the one possible road bump that could have thrown New Zealand off the path to glory, but the tourament hosts put away their bitter Trans-Tasman rivals with contemptous ease, never leaving second gear. Their first XV is set in stone but the impact of the bench should prove telling with the likes of Ali Williams, Adam Thomson and Sonny Bill Williams all capable of making an impact.

Forget about England's renaissance mid-tournament in 2007, this has been eclipsed by France's recovery from the depths of rugby purgatory. Similarly this recovery may be an indictment of the quality of their opponents but certainly something has changed in the French camp. The body language of the players after the final whistle against Tonga was telling, either France were mentally on the plane back home or there would have be a big change i.e. distance themselves from the coach. Their win over Wales was a major disappointment, normally when France win they win with a degree of virve and flair. Instead they went down to the cautious route and shut up shop by kicking the leather off the ball. It goes without saying however they are a very different team to the demoralised outfit that took to the field in the pool stages.

Key Battle: Halfbacks

Piri Weepu & Aaron Cruden vs Dimitri Yachvili & Morgan Parra

The loss of His Holiness Dan Carter has not hindered New Zealand's progress, in a sense it has given the Kiwis more motivation to win the tournament for their fallen hero. Aaron Cruden has stepped in from the wilderness and assumed the number 10 role. For New Zealand it isn't necessary that Cruden replicate Carter, that is an impossible ask, he must simply make few mistakes and act as a link between the forwards and outside backs. There is enough class outside him who can conjure up the plays to win the game comfortably. At scrum-half, Piri Weepu has become the undisputed first choice after years of clicking his heels on the bench. While his goal kicking has been wobbly at times, he is New Zealand's best bet to be a general to the forwards. With his normally dominant pack in front of him, Weepu offers crisp passing, a varied passing range and a decent kicking game.

Who would thought these two players would be a halfback pairing in a World Cup final? Morgan Parra's selection at fly-half looked to have been ill-advised in the beginning but his performances in the pivotal position have steadily got better and better. He showed against Wales that he has the capacity to make a break but he is unlikely to get much change from running inside Ma'a Nonu. Dimitri Yachvili is quite simply a rugby genius. He is a great decision maker and runs the French machine in tandem with Imanol Harinordoquy. The French may well have the edge at halfback in this game and this could prove crucial to the result. However Parra and Yachvili will need have the game of their lives to put France on the front foot out wide, due to New Zealand's staunch defensive system.

The Coaches

Who will be triumphant: Grumpy Graham or Mad Marc?

Graham Henry and co. have developed a fantastic team and nobody could begrudge them a World Cup victory as reward for the quality of rugby they have produced. Henry was fortunate to keep his job after the 2007 debacle and he has a chance to finally put the dissenting voices of 4 years ago to rest. The talent base he has to worth with is second to none, but talented players still need to be gelled together and Henry has achieved that.

During the halftime break last week, the camera showed France's dressing room and Marc Lievremont cut an insignificant figure. Clearly the senior players have decided to take matters upon themselves to run the team. Lievremont still has power over the team lineup and substitutions but the from the outside looking in, he seems to have the lost the "emotional" roles, namely motivating and inspiring the team to success. Should France win, Lievremont should take little to no credit, he has done to be best to sink the ship. One has to feel sympathy for him though, he is now in an impossible position.

Prediction:

Both sides will be at their best, there is no question of France turning up for this. Aside from winning the World Cup for the first time, the opportunity to beat New Zealand in a World Cup final in their own country isn't something one passes up. Of course they may want to spite the coach too! France need to perform for 80 minutes, anything less than a consistent showing throughout the game will spell disaster, since New Zealand can turn it the heat at will and end the game as a contest in a 5 minute spell. All the pressure is on New Zealand to win, but this is no change to the pressure the men in black have felt for years now. While it is a world cup final, they will not treat this game any differently to others.

In the forwards both teams are equal in terms of strong ball carriers and in the physical stakes. The influence of Richie McCaw is massive and how his machinations at the breakdown are viewed by referee Craig Joubert.

This is set up to be the moment where New Zealand rid themselves of the 'choke' noose around their neck and France could end up as the victims of a hiding if they don't play to the limits of their ability. Surely New Zealand cannot choke again? We shall see! New Zealand to win by 15-20 points.

---

France and All Blacks logo taken from www.therugbyforum.com; Rugby World Cup and Trophy taken from www.3news.co.nz

Team lineups, refs, date & times taken from Planet Rugby:
http://www.planetrugby.com/story/0,25883,16024_7255957,00.html

Player images from Planet Rugby or Sky Sports sites.
__________________
http://thomondstudenttimes.com/
http://www.speartackle.co.za/category/home/

Please like our FB page: http://www.facebook.com/home.php#!/Speartackle

runman

New Zealand

Come on France!!! I know theres a performance just bursting to get out of ye

Nuigforce

New Zealand

2-1 France in the lead!

Otacon

New Zealand

GWAN the French!

BoarHunter

New Zealand

I have this image of Dusautoir lifting the trophy in my head. Bring it on ! Allez les bleus.

tolosenc

New Zealand

Something tells me France will sneak it. Talk about doing the bare minimum if they do!

Ciaran-Irl

George Hook

I can't believe that France are winning this poll. You're all nuts. They'll get hammered.

B0X

Ciaran-Irl wrote: »

I can't believe that France are winning this poll. You're all nuts. They'll get hammered.

We're just trolling handsomecake :P

runman

New Zealand

Ciaran-Irl wrote: »

I can't believe that France are winning this poll. You're all nuts. They'll get hammered.

by how many points will they get hammered u reckon?

Fishooks12

George Hook

If France turn up we could be in for a classic. Still think NZ will edge it but I'd love to see France win

Ciaran-Irl

George Hook

runman wrote: »

by how many points will they get hammered u reckon?

New Zealand will get 8-10 points clear and then shut down the game and keep it tight, like they did against Aus. You can get hammered without the points margin being massive.

runman

New Zealand

Ciaran-Irl wrote: »

New Zealand will get 8-10 points clear and then shut down the game and keep it tight, like they did against Aus. You can get hammered without the points margin being massive.

So the France +16 points at even money could still pay out even with a hammering.
Its a great bet really.
I fear you are right though, if new zealand get ahead and try close it out i have no doubt they will win. Im hoping they either go behind early and struggle against a resiliant effort or they try to entertain the crowd and make costly mistakes while ahead.
Above all i hope its a great game.:D

Oisintarrant

I watched NZ get a good beating by France in Wellington a little less than 2 years ago, and it had much the same vibe about it as the final coming. France to roll over and NZ to walk them off the pitch.

France are the ultimate bi-polar team, and having made it to the final should have them in good form mentally. And you also have NZ's stage fright to mix in there.

Since Im commenting, Does anyone know why all the teams head home after theyre beaten out of the tournament? If I was a player, having played in it, theres no way Id come home without sticking around for the final.

CatFromHue

Wasn't that NZ's first game of the season? and didn't they beat the French a week later?

I'd say the players head home as they've got club commitments to attend to. Also accommodation could be hard to get and as far as I know they're kicked out of their hotels (paid for by the IRB or RWC) pretty quickly once they're out. I think Scotland were giving out about being asked to leave the morning after losing to the English. They technically weren't out of the tournament as if Georgia beat Argentina they could have gone through to the next round!

barbarians

New Zealand

I think France will steal this.

France don't fear the All Blacks, have been in poor firm so far in the tournament but usually have one standout performance and knowing the French they'll produce the time it's least expected.

Also New Zealand are under huge pressure to win this final and their fans expect nothing less than a win Sunday. With France able to play without pressure knowing the All Blacks are so nervous could lead to France playing off the cuff and producing something special.

Also Dan Carter is injured.

France 28-22 New Zealand

durkadurka

Where's my fugging preview thomond?

thomond2006

George Hook

durkadurka wrote: »

Where's my fugging preview thomond?

On its way mate!

.ak

For many reasons I'll be routing for NZ. But if France show up on the day and give a good game of rugby it'll be great. Infact, it's what this tournament needs as not to leave a bad taste in a lot of people's mouths.

Also my misses got France to win the WC at 16/1 a few months back. So should be interesting...

Digifriendly

George Hook

Oisintarrant wrote: »

I watched NZ get a good beating by France in Wellington a little less than 2 years ago, and it had much the same vibe about it as the final coming. France to roll over and NZ to walk them off the pitch.

27-22 hardly a good beating. IIRC it was pretty tight at the finish. BTW it was at Dunedin not Wellington where the 2nd test took place of that series which NZ won (14-10) - both matches in June 2009.

freyners

New Zealand

allez les bleus!!!!!:D

thomond2006

George Hook

France:
15 Maxime Médard, 14 Vincent Clerc, 13 Aurélien Rougerie, 12 Maxime Mermoz, 11 Alexis Palisson, 10 Morgan Parra, 9 Dimitri Yachvili,
8 Imanol Harinordoquy, 7 Julien Bonnaire, 6 Thierry Dusautoir (c), 5 Lionel Nallet, 4 Pascal Papé, 3 Nicolas Mas, 2 William Servat, 1 Jean-Baptiste Poux.

Replacements: 16 Dimitri Szarzewski, 17 Fabien Barcella, 18 Julien Pierre, 19 Fulgence Ouedraogo, 20 Jean-Marc Doussain, 21 François Trinh-Duc, 22 Damien Traille.

New Zealand:
15 Israel Dagg, 14 Cory Jane, 13 Conrad Smith, 12 Ma'a Nonu, 11 Richard Kahui, 10 Aaron Cruden, 9 Piri Weepu,
8 Kieran Read, 7 Richie McCaw (c), 6 Jerome Kaino, 5 Brad Thorn, 4 Samuel Whitelock, 3 Owen Franks, 2 Keven Mealamu, 1 Tony Woodcock.

Replacements: 16 Andrew Hore, 17 Ben Franks, 18 Ali Williams, 19 Adam Thomson, 20 Andy Ellis, 21 Stephen Donald, 22 Sonny Bill Williams.

Date: Sunday, October 23
Kick-off: 9.00am Irish time
Venue: Eden Park, Auckland
Weather: 16°C. Clear with cloudy periods with a slight chance of showers.

Referee: Craig Joubert
Assistant referees: Alain Rolland (Ireland), Nigel Owens (Wales)
TMO: Guilio de Santis (Italy)

Finding the final piece of the Anti-Choke Puzzle is 80 minutes away from New Zealand. The holy grail of all holy grails is angonisingly close for a country who covets it more highly than any other. Everything they have built over the last 4 years ultimately comes down to this game, where these men's place in history is on the line. Should they lose, their wonderful achievements over the last 4 years will be forgotten and the 2011 squad and management will be branded as failures by the New Zealand public. When it comes to World Cups, the team that the kiwis fear the most is undoubtedly France, who have played a large part in the formation of the word association of "choke" with "All Blacks" in the minds of rugby fans across the globe!

New Zealand have yet to be truly challenged in this world cup, whether this is due to the All Blacks' quality or the dearth of quality in other teams is debatable (I suspect the latter). They have sleepwalked their way to the final, of which there was no doubt from early into the tournament they would reach. The Australia game was the one possible road bump that could have thrown New Zealand off the path to glory, but the tourament hosts put away their bitter Trans-Tasman rivals with contemptous ease, never leaving second gear. Their first XV is set in stone but the impact of the bench should prove telling with the likes of Ali Williams, Adam Thomson and Sonny Bill Williams all capable of making an impact.

Forget about England's renaissance mid-tournament in 2007, this has been eclipsed by France's recovery from the depths of rugby purgatory. Similarly this recovery may be an indictment of the quality of their opponents but certainly something has changed in the French camp. The body language of the players after the final whistle against Tonga was telling, either France were mentally on the plane back home or there would have be a big change i.e. distance themselves from the coach. Their win over Wales was a major disappointment, normally when France win they win with a degree of virve and flair. Instead they went down to the cautious route and shut up shop by kicking the leather off the ball. It goes without saying however they are a very different team to the demoralised outfit that took to the field in the pool stages.

Key Battle: Halfbacks

Piri Weepu & Aaron Cruden vs Dimitri Yachvili & Morgan Parra

The loss of His Holiness Dan Carter has not hindered New Zealand's progress, in a sense it has given the Kiwis more motivation to win the tournament for their fallen hero. Aaron Cruden has stepped in from the wilderness and assumed the number 10 role. For New Zealand it isn't necessary that Cruden replicate Carter, that is an impossible ask, he must simply make few mistakes and act as a link between the forwards and outside backs. There is enough class outside him who can conjure up the plays to win the game comfortably. At scrum-half, Piri Weepu has become the undisputed first choice after years of clicking his heels on the bench. While his goal kicking has been wobbly at times, he is New Zealand's best bet to be a general to the forwards. With his normally dominant pack in front of him, Weepu offers crisp passing, a varied passing range and a decent kicking game.

Who would thought these two players would be a halfback pairing in a World Cup final? Morgan Parra's selection at fly-half looked to have been ill-advised in the beginning but his performances in the pivotal position have steadily got better and better. He showed against Wales that he has the capacity to make a break but he is unlikely to get much change from running inside Ma'a Nonu. Dimitri Yachvili is quite simply a rugby genius. He is a great decision maker and runs the French machine in tandem with Imanol Harinordoquy. The French may well have the edge at halfback in this game and this could prove crucial to the result. However Parra and Yachvili will need have the game of their lives to put France on the front foot out wide, due to New Zealand's staunch defensive system.

The Coaches

Who will be triumphant: Grumpy Graham or Mad Marc?

Graham Henry and co. have developed a fantastic team and nobody could begrudge them a World Cup victory as reward for the quality of rugby they have produced. Henry was fortunate to keep his job after the 2007 debacle and he has a chance to finally put the dissenting voices of 4 years ago to rest. The talent base he has to worth with is second to none, but talented players still need to be gelled together and Henry has achieved that.

During the halftime break last week, the camera showed France's dressing room and Marc Lievremont cut an insignificant figure. Clearly the senior players have decided to take matters upon themselves to run the team. Lievremont still has power over the team lineup and substitutions but the from the outside looking in, he seems to have the lost the "emotional" roles, namely motivating and inspiring the team to success. Should France win, Lievremont should take little to no credit, he has done to be best to sink the ship. One has to feel sympathy for him though, he is now in an impossible position.

Prediction:

Both sides will be at their best, there is no question of France turning up for this. Aside from winning the World Cup for the first time, the opportunity to beat New Zealand in a World Cup final in their own country isn't something one passes up. Of course they may want to spite the coach too! France need to perform for 80 minutes, anything less than a consistent showing throughout the game will spell disaster, since New Zealand can turn it the heat at will and end the game as a contest in a 5 minute spell. All the pressure is on New Zealand to win, but this is no change to the pressure the men in black have felt for years now. While it is a world cup final, they will not treat this game any differently to others.

In the forwards both teams are equal in terms of strong ball carriers and in the physical stakes. The influence of Richie McCaw is massive and how his machinations at the breakdown are viewed by referee Craig Joubert.

This is set up to be the moment where New Zealand rid themselves of the 'choke' noose around their neck and France could end up as the victims of a hiding if they don't play to the limits of their ability. Surely New Zealand cannot choke again? We shall see! New Zealand to win by 15-20 points.

---

France and All Blacks logo taken from www.therugbyforum.com; Rugby World Cup and Trophy taken from www.3news.co.nz

Team lineups, refs, date & times taken from Planet Rugby:
http://www.planetrugby.com/story/0,25883,16024_7255957,00.html

Player images from Planet Rugby or Sky Sports sites.

CIARAN_BOYLE

George Hook

Good job Thomond

justsomebloke

New Zealand

opening post edited to include Thomond2006 preview

duckysauce

New Zealand

allez les blues hope its epic

highgiant1985

in two minds about getting up to watch this...

On one hand it could be epic...

on the other France have been so poor its hard to see how it can be anything but a formality for NZ...

won't bother setting the alarm for it but if I'm up I'll watch it.

durkadurka

I kinda support France for this but they don't really deserve it.
They have bloused their way into the final without a plan, shagging their way through a drunken slutty England and a Wales who panicked and shot their load early.

Nz at this stage are seriously frustrated, like teenage boys who haven't managed to give someone a dart yet despite years of trying. Maybe this handy home world cup is the hand job they need to settle down and dominate the sport.

Ok it's been a long week and I'm slightly off my tits....

durkadurka

justsomebloke wrote: »

opening post edited to include Thomond2006 preview

Any chance of amending the poll to include a margin of victory element?

freyners

New Zealand

durkadurka wrote: »

I kinda support France for this but they don't really deserve it.
They have bloused their way into the final without a plan, shagging their way through a drunken slutty England and a Wales who panicked and shot their load early.

Nz at this stage are seriously frustrated, like teenage boys who haven't managed to give someone a dart yet despite years of trying. Maybe this handy home world cup is the hand job they need to settle down and dominate the sport.

Ok it's been a long week and I'm slightly off my tits....

one of the best rugby metaphors ive seen in a long time...bravo:D

hopefully this will be a cracker

greendom

New Zealand

Oisintarrant wrote: »

Since Im commenting, Does anyone know why all the teams head home after theyre beaten out of the tournament? If I was a player, having played in it, theres no way Id come home without sticking around for the final.

Club rugby doesn't stop for the World Cup and I imagine their employers would want them back

justsomebloke

New Zealand

durkadurka wrote: »

Any chance of amending the poll to include a margin of victory element?

Given that a good people have already voted I'm afraid not

joshrogan

New Zealand

The odds on SSN are-
France 5/1
Draw 25/1
New Zealand 1/9
____
Personally I think France will win by less than 7.

Teferi

joshrogan wrote: »

Draw 25/1

It's safe to say that whoever bets on that is throwing their money away...

EKClarke

New Zealand

I don't think France will necessarily 'show up' for this game. But I don't think they'll be terrible either. They are in a RWC final and it's hard to imagine them going out and surrendering as their liable to do á la 1939 or New Zealand in the group stages. They also have an adequate defence as they showed against Wales. If Yachvili, who perpetually throughout this tournament has looked slightly perturbed, dazed and worried works some magic along with Parra and Harinordoquy leads on the field I think we may see a few moments of brilliance.

It really does strike of French arrogance to show up to this final and see it as finally worthy of their talents.

"Garçons, quatre ans de plus".:D

chooochooo

France will win.

WeeBushy

George Hook

Superb article in today's Irish Times by Matt Williams:

Henry's finest hour is imminent


The New Zealand Rugby Union stood by their head coach after the disappointment of 2007 and are now about to reap their reward, writes MATT WILLIAMS
MARC LIÉVREMONT and Graham Henry are completely different animals. Yet they share one common element; their respective unions have stood by them in the face of a massive public and media outcry for their dismissal.
They have both been public enemy number one in their countries. Naturally, there has been a calming of the criticism this week, but that will instantly return for one of them, after tomorrow morning’s game.
Henry is vastly experienced, while Liévremont’s first real professional gig is with the national team.
Henry at 65 is an old coach; Liévremont at 42 is still very young. Henry is conservative, gruff and calculated; Liévremont – with that Zorro-esque pencil-thin moustache – is outspoken, emotional and erratic.
For these two men the stakes could not be any higher. Both are faced with 80 minutes that will either deliver rugby immortality or rugby oblivion. A hero or a fool.
Who would be a coach?
I met Henry back in 1996. It was the first year of professionalism and I was a wet-behind-the-ears assistant coach of the NSW Waratahs. He was coaching an Auckland Blues team that is the best I have ever come up against at any time in my life.
We lost 56-44 at Eden Park, despite having some great players like David Campese and Matt Burke. Their line-up was stunning: Sean Fitzpatrick, Olo Brown, Zinzan Brooke, Robin Brooke, Michael Jones, Carlos Spencer, Eroni Clarke and two little wingers named Joeli Vidiri (who galloped over for three tries) and Jonah Lomu.
They were an incredible sight to behold, packed with leaders, speed, power and match-winning freaks. My grandmother from Nenagh could’ve coached them to the Super 12 championship title.
But Nan wasn’t the coach – it was an aloof, arrogant and condescending man that went by the name of “Ted”. Without doubt Henry was the schoolmaster boss of that team, controlling and commanding the egos of world stars.
He went on to become head coach of Wales for four years and was sacked before lasting a record eight seasons with New Zealand.
His amazing reappointment as head coach after the 2007 World Cup quarter-final defeat to France is a lesson in rugby methods as New Zealand, once again, displayed the wisdom that makes them the leading nation in our game.
The NZRU conducted an audit of their team’s performance after the last World Cup. I have read the document they produced.
It was mature and correct. The main thrust of the review was that the ’07 team were brilliantly prepared by Wayne Smith, Steve Hansen and Henry. However, a perfect storm of injuries (both outhalves) combined with poor on-field decisions by the players (failing to go for drop goals) and referee Wayne Barnes (Michalak’s forward pass for Jauzion’s try) led to a narrow defeat.
The NZRU concluded that Graham Henry was not to blame.
If New Zealand win tomorrow it will be a great victory for those who understand and analyse a coach’s role in a team.
The world of soccer still influences our opinion in this regard; win and you are great, lose and you are gone. Teams who follow this mantra usually stagnate. Just compare Chelsea with Manchester United.
Great sporting groups around the planet have one thing in common; longevity of their staff, be it CEOs, coaches or the bagman.
The coach doesn’t make tackles, catch balls or break the gainline. They co-ordinate the week’s preparation and planning before empowering players to implement the game plan.
I vividly remember once asking a Scottish player why he missed six tackles in a Test match. He launched into an attack on the pre-game meal, claiming there was too much chicken and not enough pasta. He refused to take responsibility for his actions, instead blaming ridiculous off the field issues. Needless to say, he never got another opportunity to prove the chicken and pasta theory was correct.
Henry is one game away from attaining an Aristotle-like perch in New Zealand life or facing a wave of unchecked ridicule.
This unfair situation typifies the ignorance most people have of coaching. Henry has done a phenomenal job, under the sort of pressure that would cripple most men.
He plotted the route to the final. It is now up to the players.
And what of Liévremont? He had success at under-21 level, winning the 2006 World Cup in France, and he achieved promotion to the Top 14 with US Dax in 2007.
But that’s it.
In France he is seen as the coach illégitime.
He has my empathy. He has worked his hardest and there have been some marvellous victories, most notably against New Zealand in 2009.
However, there will always be the 60-point loss to Australia in Paris and, of course, Tonga.
I’m down coaching in Narbonne as I write this. I’ve just returned from the local food market (Le Halles – world famous for French cuisine), where the public’s knowledgeable rugby voice can be heard. It was here that I was reliably informed that England would be dismissed. And Wales too.
The locals were certain this group of players wouldn’t bend after those miserable pool defeats to Tonga and New Zealand.
So I arrived down this morning eager to hear the unpredictable (just like their team) native viewpoint on the final.
They believe France can win because they view New Zealand as equals. They will never bend on one knee before the black jersey.
An incredible question was asked repeatedly by people in the market: Have we earned the right to be world champions under Liévremont?
My life’s training has been to grab a win, any win, and get on the bus.
France won the toss for the choice of jersey yet allowed New Zealand keep their beloved black.
I was astonished by this. The other foreigners in Narbonne said the same. But the French were unanimous: we have to beat them legitimately and that means beating the black jersey.
I can’t help admire such panache and spirit.
Henry will probably hold the William Webb Ellis trophy tomorrow night but both his national union and the French union deserve credit for standing by and empowering their coaches.
It shows an understanding of their role and that of elite coaching. Those who chop and change are doomed to mediocrity.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/sport/2011/1022/1224306299211.html

JustinDee

New Zealand

Henry will probably hold the William Webb Ellis trophy tomorrow night but both his national union and the French union deserve credit for standing by and empowering their coaches

"Standing by and empowering" Lievremont? They announced a successor before the tournament even started.

JustinDee

New Zealand

justsomebloke wrote: »

France and All Blacks logo taken from www.therugbyforum.com; Rugby World Cup and Trophy taken from www.3news.co.nz
Team lineups, refs, date & times taken from Planet Rugby:
http://www.planetrugby.com/story/0,25883,16024_7255957,00.html

Player images from Planet Rugby or Sky Sports sites.
__________________
http://thomondstudenttimes.com/
http://www.speartackle.co.za/category/home/

Please like our FB page: http://www.facebook.com/home.php#!/Speartackle

Some advice on image credits:
The NZ and French logos are copywritten to the respective unions. Not to any other website. The RWC logo belongs to RWC ltd / IRB.
Player images should be credited to the agency that owns them, not a website or network that shows them.

Otherwise enjoyable read as always.

danthefan

JustinDee wrote: »

"Standing by and empowering" Lievremont? They announced a successor before the tournament even started.

Leivremont announced about a year ago he'd step down after the RWC. Hardly a big deal that they announced the next coach.

thomond2006

George Hook

JustinDee wrote: »

Some advice on image credits:
The NZ and French logos are copywritten to the respective unions. Not to any other website. The RWC logo belongs to RWC ltd / IRB.
Player images should be credited to the agency that owns them, not a website or network that shows them.

Otherwise enjoyable read as always.

I hear you!

cgpg5

New Zealand

New Zealand finally make the world cup final, after 3 very disappointing showings, they have been comfortable so far, they've rarely got out of third gear, and are playing at home and are 1/9 to win the game.

However, why do I get the feeling France will sneak it? They have been very poor thus far apart from the first half against England, however they always have a performance in them and a good one at that. They also have the knack of turning up when least expected. They know how to beat NZ in a world cup and have nothing to lose in comparison to their counterparts. I hope it is a cracking game and look forwrad to it greatly. Allez les Bleus.

iroced

New Zealand

danthefan wrote: »

Leivremont announced about a year ago he'd step down after the RWC. Hardly a big deal that they announced the next coach.

Well yes and no. Lievremont's expected departure after the WC is one thing. The announcement by the FFR of his replacement before the WC is another. In my opinion, stupid. It puts Lievremont in a week position with his players. Why would they accept all his choices, criticisms, etc... knowing that he's no longer their "boss"? Hence we've seen several times some signs of disagreement between him and the players. In France it was almost in the headlines every day.
What I find even more stupid is that "we" (well the FFF) did the same thing last year. And you all know the French shameful saga in South Africa.:mad:

Living abroad from my home country, I've been quite embarrassed and ashamed of the image they gave of my country. I know it is only sport but the soccer WC is the most watched event in the world. And in a way sportsmen represent their country. After that absolute disgrace in SA, the last thing I/we was/were expecting was to be again the clowns (not in the same league of ridiculousness and shame than last year though) of an international event.

I really hope that they're gonna produce something in the final because if we get hammered, that will leave quite a bad image of our team in this WC...

danthefan

iroced wrote: »

Well yes and no. Lievremont's expected departure after the WC is one thing. The announcement by the FFR of his replacement before the WC is another. In my opinion, stupid. It puts Lievremont in a week position with his players. Why would they accept all his choices, criticisms, etc... knowing that he's no longer their "boss"? Hence we've seen several times some signs of disagreement between him and the players. In France it was almost in the headlines every day.
What I find even more stupid is that "we" (well the FFF) did the same thing last year. And you all know the French shameful saga in South Africa.:mad:

As I said, they knew this a year ago. I don't see how naming his successor changes anything at all.

iroced

New Zealand

danthefan wrote: »

As I said, they knew this a year ago. I don't see how naming his successor changes anything at all.

Well I'm not the players. The only thing I can see from outside is comparing kind of "similar" situations.

In 98' Jacquet was criticised very strongly by most of the French media. Before the WC it was clear he was going to leave after it. But the FFF was behind him. He was THE coach. They had belief in him. The players had to listen to him or to f*** off. He was in a strong position with the FFF backing him up from the media criticisms and the potential players feelings. Result. We won it.
Last year. Domenech was in a weak position. The FFF admitted having renew his position after the catastrophic Euro 2008 because of some obscure arrangements inside the federation. Before the WC they announced that Blanc was going to be his successor. Everyone knew that it was going to change our style of play, the communication with the media, etc... In two words: big change.
Result. The biggest shame in French sport history.


I deliberately took 2 extreme examples. I know that the main reason for the success on one side and the failure on the other is not the announcement itself. But you need to replace it in its context. It just shows that not everyone is looking in the same direction. And it definitely has a role with the players attitude. Unconsciously, mentally, I don't know. The fact is the coach can not have a credible authority, can not establish a strong discipline if he's alone. And by announcing the new guy, the federation is basically saying "his time is over" before we actually go to the WC. For me, the difference is huge. And, I guess it's no surprise if both times the French team looked like a mess. :mad:

danthefan

I don't agree with you really. In May 2010 Lievremont said he wouldn't be staying on after the RWC, this was his own decision it seems. This gave the FFR a load of time to find a replacement, allows the changeover to happen in an orderly manner, and removes any uncertainty or ambiguity from the situation. Imo this is exactly how changes in coach should happen. There was the exact same situation at Leinster a few seasons back, Cheika made it known early he wouldn't be taking a new contract, and this left Leinster in a good position when it came to finding a new coach.

Fishooks12

George Hook

Anyone else looking forward to being able to sleep in on a Sunday for the first time in ages next Sunday?

iroced

New Zealand

danthefan wrote: »

I don't agree with you really. In May 2010 Lievremont said he wouldn't be staying on after the RWC, this was his own decision it seems. This gave the FFR a load of time to find a replacement, allows the changeover to happen in an orderly manner, and removes any uncertainty or ambiguity from the situation. Imo this is exactly how changes in coach should happen. There was the exact same situation at Leinster a few seasons back, Cheika made it known early he wouldn't be taking a new contract, and this left Leinster in a good position when it came to finding a new coach.

I hear your point. What I don't find clever is announcing publicly the new national team coach. Especially after what happened with the soccer team last year.
Lievremont said early he's gonna leave? OK. They search for a replacement? Fine. They sign an agreement with Saint Andre? Perfect. That's good managing. But, don't make it an official statement. We don't need to know. We want to "win" the WC. We'll worry about the new coach after.
So, I stand on my lack of authority point with the players. And this is actually what's happening in NZ. I can't remember our players publicly complaining and criticising Lievremont before that. The only time where there was some kind of public disagreement was after getting hammered home by Australia. But it sounded more like some kind of misunderstanding between them.

The Aussie

Cant help but think this game is a victory lap for The Bro's, i personally hope the French turn up, who knows a few early Penalties maybe a Try and the mental frailties of The Bro's might pop up. Wont be the same without Judgement Day, when is he out of the cooler (prison)???

fryup

George Hook

i hope the french give them a game of it

but ultimately i hope the kiwis win, they've been the beat team in the tournament and after the year they had as a nation i think its only fitting

durkadurka

The length, Or rather lack of length of this thread is remarkable for a match of this stature.

I've seen longer threads for a magners against aironi.

fryup

George Hook

^^^^^^^^^

yes, everything is a bit meh about this final..i think most people feel its a fore gone conclusion

the immortals

well i have 20 blips on france to win at 7/1, so come on les blues!!