McGuiness & The Gaddafi Connection

Sully

I was reading a comment on TheJournal.ie and someone pointed out the IRAs connections with Gaddafi. Someone else responded and pointed out that McGuiness said he felt no shame about their past links with Gaddafi.

I looked it up online and came across this article;
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-12539372

I never spotted this before and its taken me a bit by surprise. Considering McGuiness IRA past has hounded him during this election with apparent mistruths about when he left the IRA and how involved he was, O'Callaghan pretty much calling him a murderer, and then today with the statement by the family of Detective Jerry McCabe, who was murdered by the IRA, accusing him of knowing where the two IRA members who are wanted are. Just a few of the accusations and remarks being made since his announcement into the race.

While I personally am very uncomfortable with a man with such a dodgy history behind him holding such an office, and it seems that he is slipping in the polls (bar the online ones which are not accurate in the slightest as there effectively false) which might be an indication as to how people are starting to perhaps think the same, the above further drags McGuiness down the gutter and reaffirms my personal concerns.

Will McGuiness perhaps now change these views? It was only back in February he refused to knock the connection, so it might be a stickler for him and he may not know how to approach it without rocking the Sinn Fein boat.

But knowing now what we do about the Gaddafi regime, and with many political leaders having egg on their face for their own connections with Gaddafi but at least coming out against him and regretting their connections.

Would McGuiness and IRA have done things differently? It would appear, perhaps, not. But id love if someone asked him this. Perhaps its time to give Pat Kenny a call?!

Durnish

Ha, I wonder if McG and Adams will offer sympathy to the Gaddafi family, now he's a gonner.

UDP

I think it would be different if the IRA had supplied arms etc to Gaddafi for him to do the awful things he did to Libyans etc but they were using him to fund their aims so I dont see why the IRA would regret dealing with him - they got lots of resources from him.

KeithAFC

Will McGuiness perhaps now change these views? It was only back in February he refused to knock the connection, so it might be a stickler for him and he may not know how to approach it without rocking the Sinn Fein boat.

Change his views? Change them in his head? No. Change them when he opens his mouth? Absolutely. Just look at his recent comments on the British Army soldiers who got killed, the RUC officers. He now recognises the Republic Of Ireland ( Éire) as a valid state.

Martin Mcguinness is only interested in one thing, power. Even though the office of president isn't very powerful in terms of what you can do, the image of being president is very powerful for the Republic Of Ireland and he would be the face of your country.

So of course he is going to say anything to get into that position.

KeithAFC

edit..

LordSutch

Gadaffi was (in the 80s) a keen supplier of Semtex, Mortars, AK47s, and all manner of guns & bomb making material to the Provo's, and many innocent people on this island died as a result of those same Gadaffi supplies, which were used to ruthless effect by the Provisional IRA, of which Martin McGuinness was a member and cheerleader (and remember; he always refused to condemned the PIRA murders) back in those pre peace process days - Pre 94'.

My name is URL

Sully wrote: »

Will McGuiness perhaps now change these views? It was only back in February he refused to knock the connection, so it might be a stickler for him and he may not know how to approach it without rocking the Sinn Fein boat.

The National Treasury Management Agency sent reps to Libya at the height of the revolt there, in order to seek a bailout for our banks from Ghadafi's own Libyan Investment Authority.

Have they come out and said that they regret attempting to form ties with Ghadafi and his regime?

http://www.news.com.au/business/ireland-sought-libyan-bailout/story-fn7mjon9-1226013196144

Have any elected officials, that once had ties with, supported, or received support from Ghadafi ever come out and said that they regret it?

Sully

My name is URL wrote: »

The National Treasury Management Agency sent reps to Libya at the height of the revolt there, in order to seek a bailout for our banks from Ghadafi's own Libyan Investment Authority.

Have they come out and said that they regret attempting to form ties with Ghadafi and his regime?

http://www.news.com.au/business/ireland-sought-libyan-bailout/story-fn7mjon9-1226013196144

Have any elected officials, that once had ties with, supported, or received support from Ghadafi ever come out and said that they regret it?

Either way, my point still stands.

Sponge Bob

My name is URL wrote: »

The National Treasury Management Agency sent reps to Libya at the height of the revolt there, in order to seek a bailout for our banks from Ghadafi's own Libyan Investment Authority.

Have they come out and said that they regret attempting to form ties with Ghadafi and his regime?

http://www.news.com.au/business/ireland-sought-libyan-bailout/story-fn7mjon9-1226013196144

Have any elected officials, that once had ties with, supported, or received support from Ghadafi ever come out and said that they regret it?

The main suspect there is dead, ie Lenihan.

dlofnep

LordSutch wrote: »

Gadaffi was (in the 80s) a keen supplier of Semtex, Mortars, AK47s, and all manner of guns & bomb making material to the Provo's, and many innocent people on this island died as a result of those same Gadaffi supplies, which were used to ruthless effect by the Provisional IRA, of which Martin McGuinness was a member and cheerleader (and remember; he always refused to condemned the PIRA murders) back in those pre peace process days - Pre 94'.

The British Government provided Gaddafi with a rake of weapons, which is uses to slaughter his own people. A much worse crime.

This thread is absolutely absurd. If the OP wants to discuss the arms-trade business, then I have no idea why he's singling out the IRA. Let's discuss it in it's full context, instead of some skewed and selective view of it. Reality was, the IRA required weapons to fight loyalists terrorists, and a violent and unaccountable British army. They sourced some from Libya. What's the issue?

The only reason why Sully created this thread is because his man is slumping in the polls. Let's be frank.

Funfair

Sully wrote: »

Either way, my point still stands.

You speaking for yourself or are you speaking on behalf of your Fine gael party on this?

Sully

Funfair wrote: »

You speaking for yourself or are you speaking on behalf of your Fine gael party on this?

"of your Fine Gael party"? Just because I supported Fine Gael in the General Election, does not mean its "my party". I don't work for Fine Gael in any shape or form. dlofnep is Sinn Fein, but you don't see me asking is he speaking on political threads on behalf of Sinn Fein or himself.

I created this thread because the forum is mostly talking about McGuiness. He is a controversial candidate and I read about his remarks. My question was would he retract what he said back in February, and also, would it perhaps cause more damage to his campaign. Nothing to do with arms deals.

I don't see why that's not an acceptable form of discussion when we have discussed his past before.

Funfair

Sully wrote: »

I was reading a comment on TheJournal.ie and someone pointed out the IRAs connections with Gaddafi. Someone else responded and pointed out that McGuiness said he felt no shame about their past links with Gaddafi.

I looked it up online and came across this article;
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-12539372

I never spotted this before and its taken me a bit by surprise. Considering McGuiness IRA past has hounded him during this election with apparent mistruths about when he left the IRA and how involved he was, O'Callaghan pretty much calling him a murderer, and then today with the statement by the family of Detective Jerry McCabe, who was murdered by the IRA, accusing him of knowing where the two IRA members who are wanted are. Just a few of the accusations and remarks being made since his announcement into the race.

While I personally am very uncomfortable with a man with such a dodgy history behind him holding such an office, and it seems that he is slipping in the polls (bar the online ones which are not accurate in the slightest as there effectively false) which might be an indication as to how people are starting to perhaps think the same, the above further drags McGuiness down the gutter and reaffirms my personal concerns.

Will McGuiness perhaps now change these views? It was only back in February he refused to knock the connection, so it might be a stickler for him and he may not know how to approach it without rocking the Sinn Fein boat.

But knowing now what we do about the Gaddafi regime, and with many political leaders having egg on their face for their own connections with Gaddafi but at least coming out against him and regretting their connections.

Would McGuiness and IRA have done things differently? It would appear, perhaps, not. But id love if someone asked him this. Perhaps its time to give Pat Kenny a call?!

Your link shows Gaddafi and Tony Blaire hugging what has the link got to do with MMG exactly?

Should your headling not say "Tony Blaire uncomfortable with Gaddafi links" perhaps?

ikeano29

[Embedded Image Removed]

Sully

Funfair wrote: »

Your link shows Gaddafi and Tony Blaire hugging what has the link got to do with MMG exactly?

Should your headling not say "Tony Blaire uncomfortable with Gaddafi links" perhaps?

The whole article isn't about McGuiness. I was backing up my post, where I said that McGuiness said he felt no shame about Sinn Feins past links with Gaddafi.

As Libyans fight against a 42-year dictatorship, deputy first Minister Martin McGuinness has said he feels no shame about republicans' past links with Colonel Gaddafi.

First paragraph backs up what I was saying.

Sully

dlofnep wrote: »

The only reason why Sully created this thread is because his man is slumping in the polls. Let's be frank.

Just saw your edit.

I don't think McGuiness is threatening the Fine Gael candidate in the slightest, to be fair. I doubt my post commenting on McGuiness past, even if it made national headlines, would result in "my man" jumping up the polls and being Irelands next president.

Neither do I think McGuiness will be the next president.

votecounts

Jesus, another anti McGuiness thread, let the bashing commence and some of the mods have the audacity to say that the politics forum is full of pro sinn fein threads (laughs)

Sully

votecounts wrote: »

Jesus, another anti McGuiness thread, let the bashing commence and some of the mods have the audacity to say that the politics forum is full of pro sinn fein threads (laughs)

I'm not bashing him. I think iv worded my post as such that avoids bashing. I'm genuinely curious. He is popular enough for such a candidate, considering others like Norris are slumped. Based on that, im just curious as to how this could impact him.

Forgive me for shinning a bad light on McGuiness but it is a discussion forum.

Ald

Sully wrote: »

I'm not bashing him. I think iv worded my post as such that avoids bashing. I'm genuinely curious. He is popular enough for such a candidate, considering others like Norris are slumped. Based on that, im just curious as to how this could impact him.

Forgive me for shinning a bad light on McGuiness but it is a discussion forum.

I don't fully understand where your thread is going. Are you trying to suggest McG endorsed Gaddafi because he bought arms from him? The I.R.A. were going to source arms and explosives one way or another. Haughey had connections too and was well known to Gaddafi.

If you were to ask me who comes out worst in this whole debacle it is definitely the British and it wasn't just Tony Blair. There was a trade mission to Libya to sell arms not so long ago. Tony Blair was just the face on the exercise. The British MOD have Libyan blood on their hands as much as they do Irish, Iraqi and Afghan.

Funfair

Sully wrote: »

I'm not bashing him. I think iv worded my post as such that avoids bashing. I'm genuinely curious. He is popular enough for such a candidate, considering others like Norris are slumped. Based on that, im just curious as to how this could impact him.

Forgive me for shinning a bad light on McGuiness but it is a discussion forum.

water off a ducks arse for Martin on Gaddafi, he'll be a wee more worried tonight about the impact of the Gerry McCabe article id imagine..

Liam Byrne

Funfair wrote: »

he'll be a wee more worried tonight about the impact of the Gerry McCabe article id imagine..

If so, fair play Ann McCabe.........ensuring her husband's cut-short legacy is still serving us.

Karma's a bitch, Martin!

K-9

A Dub in Glasgo wrote: »

I agree with you

Hard to argue with in fairness.

My name is URL

Liam Byrne wrote: »

If so, fair play Ann McCabe.........ensuring her husband's cut-short legacy is still serving us.

Karma's a bitch, Martin!

His death serves you well, does it?

KELTICKNIGHTT

votecounts wrote: »

Jesus, another anti McGuiness thread, let the bashing commence and some of the mods have the audacity to say that the politics forum is full of pro sinn fein threads (laughs)

sf don't have a problem bashing others but don't like when happening to poor marty,get over it,marty mc guinness is toxic candidate to all except sf club
also seems that new sf party and supporters come on stream when election,good few joined in oct 2011,even last week
people in Ireland don't want or Lie marty mc guinness ,the sooner he's back in north the better,when he tells the truth some day,then people might listen to him

crebel81

KeithAFC wrote: »

Change his views? Change them in his head? No. Change them when he opens his mouth? Absolutely. Just look at his recent comments on the British Army soldiers who got killed, the RUC officers. He now recognises the Republic Of Ireland ( Éire) as a valid state.

Martin Mcguinness is only interested in one thing, power. Even though the office of president isn't very powerful in terms of what you can do, the image of being president is very powerful for the Republic Of Ireland and he would be the face of your country.

So of course he is going to say anything to get into that position.

Keith, we know which side of the fields of Ulster you reside, so its no wonder you and the usual suspects pop up on EVERY single thread in relation to Martin McGuiness.


Although I believe McGuiness wont get elected, I believe he will get a considerable share of the votes, and it will bring us a step closer to reunification.

KELTICKNIGHTT

crebel81 wrote: »

Keith, we know which side of the fields of Ulster you reside, so its no wonder you and the usual suspects pop up on EVERY single thread in relation to Martin McGuiness.


Although I believe McGuiness wont get elected, I believe he will get a considerable share of the votes, and it will bring us a step closer to reunification.

reunification of what
or are you dreaming like other sf boys

crebel81

KELTICKNIGHTT wrote: »

reunification of what
or are you dreaming like other sf boys

I dont think there are any boys in Sinn Fein, mostly men and women

The possibility of being a voice in the south was a dream when SF were banned off the tv. And look where they are now.......second largest party in the south. You need to move on from the past Keltic!

KELTICKNIGHTT

crebel81 wrote: »

I dont think there are any boys in Sinn Fein, mostly men and women

The possibility of being a voice in the south was a dream when SF were banned off the tv. And look where they are now.......second largest party in the south. You need to move on from the past Keltic!

I'm sure you and sf club would like people in south to forget but guess what ,Won't happen as sf and mc guinness are toxic and you haven't learn't
because you for get there's more than nationalist in north and you need a majority for anything in north
so maybe you and sf should learn to move on before asking south specially about united Ireland as not going to happen for long time if ever.

crebel81

KELTICKNIGHTT wrote: »

I'm sure you and sf club would like people in south to forget but guess what ,Won't happen as sf and mc guinness are toxic and you haven't learn't
because you for get there's more than nationalist in north and you need a majority for anything in north
so maybe you and sf should learn to move on before asking south specially about united Ireland as not going to happen for long time if ever.

I live in the south. I always have.

Explain to me why Sinn Fein are toxic (in comparison to other political parties)?

I am a republican. You are a unionist/loyalist. Makes sense that we would disagree on many things. But thats your viewpoint.

votecounts

another McGuiness thread goes completely off topic as i knew it would. discussing united ireland which i am sure has a thread which is a sore point for some partitionists whether they be mods or posters.

My name is URL

KELTICKNIGHTT wrote: »

move on before asking south specially about united Ireland as not going to happen for long time if ever.

What exactly do you base that on? If the opinions of those who reside in Great Britain are taken into account (and let's face it; they should be) then the overwhelming majority would back the reunification of all Ireland.

There have been 19 polls conducted in GB between 1983 & 2007, in each and every one of them; the majority have been supportive of a reunified Ireland. An average of about 25% say that they would like to see NI remaining in the UK.

But sure once it's left in the hands of a few small minded separatists it'll never happen.

LordSutch

Is there something wrong with my Mac, or is there something wrong with posts 16 & 22? All I am getting on the screen is lines & lines of letters, with no pictures or meaning? Anyone else getting that?

KELTICKNIGHTT

crebel81 wrote: »

I live in the south. I always have.

Explain to me why Sinn Fein are toxic (in comparison to other political parties)?

I am a republican. You are a unionist/loyalist. Makes sense that we would disagree on many things. But thats your viewpoint.

ha ha
how am i loylist,because i don't agree with sf party and supporters
that's weak ,very weak
not in north where if sf don't like what you say,get kneecapped,
this is state of Ireland
sf being talking united Ireland for decades,and you saying they have move3d on
ignore others in north

KELTICKNIGHTT

My name is URL wrote: »

What exactly do you base that on? If the opinions of those who reside in Great Britain are taken into account (and let's face it; they should be) then the overwhelming majority would back the reunification of all Ireland.

There have been 19 polls conducted in GB between 1983 & 2007, in each and every one of them; the majority have been supportive of a reunified Ireland. An average of about 25% say that they would like to see NI remaining in the UK.

But sure once it's left in the hands of a few small minded separatists it'll never happen.

so are you saying that there would be a majority supporting joining state of Ireland
show proof
be hard
as there was never referendum

blahfckingblah

LordSutch wrote: »

Is there something wrong with my Mac, or is there something wrong with posts 16 & 22? All I am getting on the screen is lines & lines of letters, with no pictures or meaning? Anyone else getting that?

same as, maybe they're talking in code??

blahfckingblah

KELTICKNIGHTT wrote: »

ha ha
how am i loylist,because i don't agree with sf party and supporters
that's weak ,very weak
not in north where if sf don't like what you say,get kneecapped,
this is state of Ireland
sf being talking united Ireland for decades,and you saying they have move3d on
ignore others in north

Are you serious if Sinn Fein dont like what you say you get kneecapped,that it the ultimate troll, you just lost any credability with me.

My name is URL

KELTICKNIGHTT wrote: »

so are you saying that there would be a majority supporting joining state of Ireland
show proof
be hard
as there was never referendum

What would you be willing to accept as proof? I can show you the results of the 19 opinion polls I mentioned before which suggest that the majority of people in Britain would see the unification of Ireland as a good thing.

Would you agree that those results were enough to warrant a British referendum on the matter?

Sully

LordSutch wrote: »

Is there something wrong with my Mac, or is there something wrong with posts 16 & 22? All I am getting on the screen is lines & lines of letters, with no pictures or meaning? Anyone else getting that?

16 was an image tag gone wrong. I assume no mods are online as it was reported hours ago. 22 is a blank quote.

Anywho, I have no idea why the whole SF/McG are toxic have anything to do with this thread. Most candidates who run for SF will be toxic considering SF is a toxic party due to their past. At least down here in the South.

I was more interested in seeing would the Gaddafi connection rise its head at all for McGuiness in this election seeing as most other stuff has, and would he retract what he said earlier this year.

KELTICKNIGHTT

blahfckingblah wrote: »

Are you serious if Sinn Fein dont like what you say you get kneecapped,that it the ultimate troll, you just lost any credability with me.

you said this already and you already told me who you support hence you lost all credibility from then on from me

blahfckingblah

KELTICKNIGHTT wrote: »

you said this already and you already told me who you support hence you lost all credibility from then on from me

I didn't say that already, tell me one instance where what you said in the post i quoted is true? Also just because I'm supporting a different candidate shouldnt discredit me, especially not in a democracy.

KELTICKNIGHTT

blahfckingblah wrote: »

I didn't say that already, tell me one instance where what you said in the post i quoted is true? Also just because I'm supporting a different candidate shouldnt discredit me, especially not in a democracy.

looking at other sf supporters,they discredit others who don't support there views.
majority of people in south don't and won't support sf who some believe including myself to be fascist views,everyone has there own opinion on this
you said enough to me why you support that candidate and
anyone who supports the likes of marty mc guinness ,I don't respect period.

blahfckingblah

KELTICKNIGHTT wrote: »

looking at other sf supporters,they discredit others who don't support there views.
majority of people in south don't and won't support sf who some believe including myself to be fascist views,everyone has there own opinion on this
you said enough to me why you support that candidate and
anyone who supports the likes of marty mc guinness ,I don't respect period.

well thats a whole load of sweeping statements and generalisations all rolled in to one post. How do they discredit others?
Labour only recieved 19.4 of the vote in the general election, the majority of the people in the south dont and didnt vote for labour... ( see where im going here).
With regard to the fascism thing what policies do you believe to be fascist?
I'm sad you don't feel like you can respect me just based on who i intend on voting for, without even hearing my reasons for it, its sad that people still form their opinions that way, but thats life.
Now back to your post did you find any examples or were you lying?

KELTICKNIGHTT

blahfckingblah wrote: »

well thats a whole load of sweeping statements and generalisations all rolled in to one post. How do they discredit others?
Labour only recieved 19.4 of the vote in the general election, the majority of the people in the south dont and didnt vote for labour... ( see where im going here).
With regard to the fascism thing what policies do you believe to be fascist?
I'm sad you don't feel like you can respect me just based on who i intend on voting for, without even hearing my reasons for it, its sad that people still form their opinions that way, but thats life.
Now back to your post did you find any examples or were you lying?

examples of what
are you changing subject ?

JCMM1

How can someone ,who would be barred from joining the Gardai or the Defence Forces because of his IRA links,be acceptable as the next Commander in Chief of the Defence Forces????

KELTICKNIGHTT

JCMM1 wrote: »

How can someone ,who would be barred from joining the Gardai or the Defence Forces because of his IRA links,be acceptable as the next Commander in Chief of the Defence Forces????

maybe good friday agreement,seems to get all ex terrorist's get off with murder etc,including mmg

blahfckingblah

KELTICKNIGHTT wrote: »

examples of what
are you changing subject ?

Are you serious im not changing the subject i want you to clarify this(my original point):

tell me one instance where what you said in the post i quoted is true?

and that was in relation to this:

if sf don't like what you say,get kneecapped

I also asked you to clear some generalisations up in your last post which were what policies are fascist? and how do Sinn Fein discredit others?

Its hard to debate with someone who refuses to give details of what they are posting about.

cardwizzard

Save your energy pal. All you will get is toxic, kneecapped, this is state of Ireland, murders, a load of nonsense to sum it all up. Plus you will reread the post about three times to decipher it.

KELTICKNIGHTT

blahfckingblah wrote: »

Are you serious im not changing the subject i want you to clarify this(my original point):



and that was in relation to this:



I also asked you to clear some generalisations up in your last post which were what policies are fascist? and how do Sinn Fein discredit others?

Its hard to debate with someone who refuses to give details of what they are posting about.

are you saying sf/PIRA didn't kneecap people who they didn't like what they said
sinn fein supporters do and possible sf party people on threads
sf consider outside of sf supporters and party to be fascists ,others say extreme socialists ,in decades,where have there extreme views changed ?

KELTICKNIGHTT

cardwizzard wrote: »

Save your energy pal. All you will get is toxic, kneecapped, this is state of Ireland, murders, a load of nonsense to sum it all up. Plus you will reread the post about three times to decipher it.

we know you consider killing innocent people nonsense ,when marty asked hard questions which he can't answer truthfully ,plus your petty comment
will sf supporters be posting on non sf issues,non north issues

cardwizzard

KELTICKNIGHTT wrote: »

we know you consider killing innocent people nonsense ,when marty asked hard questions which he can't answer truthfully ,plus your petty comment
will sf supporters be posting on non sf issues,non north issues

Maybe you could quote where I said I consider killing innocent people was nonsense. Please do so. Never have I said this. Please take that back ASAP.

In fact the opposite is true. So many innocent people, totally innocent, died. I'm not going to get into it with you, as I think you are totally blinkered and think the killings was on one side only.

What are you saying about questions and MMG exactly?

I like to think I have a broad spectrum so while the North is dear to me, and especially around election times, I do like to talk about politics in general.

blahfckingblah

KELTICKNIGHTT wrote: »

are you saying sf/PIRA didn't kneecap people who they didn't like what they said
sinn fein supporters do and possible sf party people on threads
sf consider outside of sf supporters and party to be fascists ,others say extreme socialists ,in decades,where have there extreme views changed ?

Im saying Sinn Fein don't kneecap people. I'd be a sinn fein supporter as yuo say and i don't think that, so do better and tell me why you feel sinn fein are fascists.