What's the obsession with medicine?

Eathrin

Why is it that medicine is a course in so much demand? It seems like anyone hoping to get high points is looking to do medicine. The demand is so high but for what? Has everybody aspired to be a doctor from age 5, or is it about money? The course length is huge and to me the work doesn't sound that attractive. Maybe it's the high points that make high achievers seek a "prestige" course. To me points are no object and I'll pick something that genuinely interests me.

AnamGlas

Some people find enjoyment through helping others, whether it be by treating someone personally or by trying to develop cures for other illnesses. True, it's prestigious, having the title of "Dr." kind of sets you apart from others. Money is always an attraction, but really, if it isn't the career for you, why set yourself to it...

*not interested in medicine btw

DefyingGravity

Medicine would be an amazing course to do.Imagine everyday you would be learning how to help people and save lives, a lot of people are extremely caring & intelligent,therefore medicine is a course to suit them.

paulb

Good man Cian! I think you identify the central conceit of aspiring to medicine - there are some excellent vocational doctors, there are also some real a$$wipes motivated by money and status.

Your motivation for any career should be be based on genuine interest, it is also possible to do pursue a career for 10 years and change to something completely different.

Trust your instincts

Glee_GG

Personally I'd love to do medicine, the career has always just fascinated me to be honest! Yes, the money is great and to be honest, I think anyone who says its not an attraction is lying because lets face it, most people want to have a job that pays well, but I have always just loved the sciences, blood, surgeries, hospitals etc so its something I'd love to do! It annoys me that in general people say that people who get high points automatically do medicine. To do medicine in the first place you NEED to get high points, its not as if people get 600 points and then say "oh I'm going to do Medicine now" :L (thats not aimed at the poster by the way, just a general thing that really annoys me!)

Coeurdepirate

I think a lot of it is pretentiousness. That being said, the pay, imagine the pay! Who cares if you'd hate it!

CookieMonster.x

Cian A wrote: »

Why is it that medicine is a course in so much demand? It seems like anyone hoping to get high points is looking to do medicine. The demand is so high but for what? Has everybody aspired to be a doctor from age 5, or is it about money? The course length is huge and to me the work doesn't sound that attractive. Maybe it's the high points that make high achievers seek a "prestige" course. To me points are no object and I'll pick something that genuinely interests me.

I have wanted to be a doctor for as long as I can remember. I can't remember a time when I didn't want to be! I was always fixing cuts etc and now I do blood sugar, blood pressure etc. It's all I want to do and I will keep trying until I get it if I don't get it first time!
There are people who want it jut for money though and to be honest they don't make great offers. There are people who really want it, not just for money!

Eathrin

Sorry I should have mentioned that I know there are obviously people who are genuinely interested in helping people and find that type of work interesting. But you see my point, and it makes lower point courses seem less significant even if you get 600 points. There's almost a certain "pressure" to go into medicine or other "prestige" courses.

Chuchoter

To a large extent, most of the people I know going for 'med' are the most arrogant, self serving, snobbish people I've ever met. Very few are going into it because they want to help people.

Togepi

I've always thought it was a strange coincidence that people who want to do medicine are the ones you would have always expected to get really high points... :cool:

J_E

I find that it's often a case where an individual wants to help people but sees Medicine as the only way to do this. I mean, there are so many other opportunities down the health science path like Occupational Therapy that are often overlooked because they aren't talked about as much and they don't have the same name that Medicine does.

Namlub

Obviously there are applicants who genuinely want to help people (and I'd hope that they're in the majority), but it seems that some people feel like they should apply for it simply because they're going to get the points. There's only one person going for med in my year and she's awful with people and doesn't appear to have any interest in it, but she'd get enough points easily. Though I guess the HPAT is there to try and eradicate that a bit...

Bbbbolger

Togepi wrote: »

I've always thought it was a strange coincidence that people who want to do medicine are the ones you would have always expected to get really high points... :cool:

I wouldnt really call it coincidence. Ev eryone knows how much points you need for Medicine. The way I see it, if someone doesn't think they're going to get near the points, they're not going to talk about becoming a doctor. Especially when you consider that you mention Medicine once and people tend to keep a closer eye on your results. That's what I've found anyway.

Eathrin

Togepi wrote: »

I've always thought it was a strange coincidence that people who want to do medicine are the ones you would have always expected to get really high points... :cool:

Bbbbolger wrote: »

I wouldnt really call it coincidence. Ev eryone knows how much points you need for Medicine. The way I see it, if someone doesn't think they're going to get near the points, they're not going to talk about becoming a doctor. Especially when you consider that you mention Medicine once and people tend to keep a closer eye on your results. That's what I've found anyway.

Psst...sarcasm

luciemc

Cian A wrote: »

Sorry I should have mentioned that I know there are obviously people who are genuinely interested in helping people and find that type of work interesting. But you see my point, and it makes lower point courses seem less significant even if you get 600 points. There's almost a certain "pressure" to go into medicine or other "prestige" courses.

I got 600 and I still run into people from school who assume I'm doing medicine? It's weirrrrd. Another friend 'wanted' to do medicine all her life, it was literally all she ever wanted to do! she got the points but messed up HPAT... now she's studying languages and loving every minute of it... only realising now she doesn't actually like blood and would have probably dropped out after a few months! I wonder if many do drop out/change course or do people stick with it after all the work they put in to get there?

spurious

luciemc wrote: »

I got 600 and I still run into people from school who assume I'm doing medicine? It's weirrrrd. Another friend 'wanted' to do medicine all her life, it was literally all she ever wanted to do! she got the points but messed up HPAT... now she's studying languages and loving every minute of it... only realising now she doesn't actually like blood and would have probably dropped out after a few months! I wonder if many do drop out/change course or do people stick with it after all the work they put in to get there?

The high levels of depression and substance abuse levels in doctors would lead you to think there are a number of unhappy people in the profession.
That, or the daily grind of dealing with the symptoms of poverty, which in many cases you can do nothing to help, eventually gets to people.

I think on one level you would actually need to be quite uncaring, to deal with the things doctors have to deal with, day after day, year after year.

Just Like Heaven

I can't get my head around people thinking that med hopefuls are choosing to study medicine cause they have points in the bag.

Surely the majority of people who want to study medicine are doing well in school cause they need too, to get into college, they don't want to study medicine, because they're doing well in school?

Eathrin

fewtinsoffroth wrote: »

I can't get my head around people thinking that med hopefuls are choosing to study medicine cause they have points in the bag.

Surely the majority of people who want to study medicine are doing well in school cause they need too, to get into college, they don't want to study medicine, because they're doing well in school?

Alas, I believe the opposite to be true. Think about it, many of the people who are getting A's in your class now would have been the guys doing the same thing since primary school. They were hardly working towards 600 points to get into medicine back then. It was only when they began thinking about their future later on and realised that medicine was the "best" course to get into that they decided on that. Of course there's some truth to the first statement you made too but I believe to a much lesser degree than what you think.

leaveiton

I know someone who is seriously considering putting medicine down on their CAO and doing the HPAT just so they can say that they got enough points for medicine. And no, they weren't joking when they said this.

Eathrin

leaveiton wrote: »

I know someone who is seriously considering putting medicine down on their CAO and doing the HPAT just so they can say that they got enough points for medicine. And no, they weren't joking when they said this.

Wow! I didn't realise people were this bad. The points are there because of demand, not because it's a "better" course.

Siobhnk

I'd love to do medicine but there's no way I'd get the points it really annoys me the way people go into it for the "prestige" when there are others out there who would genuinely do a better job. I'm going for nursing instead, might suit me better.

theowen

luciemc wrote: »

I got 600 and I still run into people from school who assume I'm doing medicine? It's weirrrrd. Another friend 'wanted' to do medicine all her life, it was literally all she ever wanted to do! she got the points but messed up HPAT... now she's studying languages and loving every minute of it... only realising now she doesn't actually like blood and would have probably dropped out after a few months! I wonder if many do drop out/change course or do people stick with it after all the work they put in to get there?

Not many people at all drop out. I'm only in second year mind. Most people in my class are very caring people and you can tell they're not just in it for the prestige or money value. That all goes out the window somewhat when you're looking at a timetable with 9-5 lectures every day and crap loads of study to do i.e. you need a better reason for doing medicine to get you through it. The same would be even greater when you're an actual doctor. You may get well paid but you'll work twice as hard as most people on the same salery until you're 40+ years old sure.

Enda Kenny

Chuchoter wrote: »

To a large extent, most of the people I know going for 'med' are the most arrogant, self serving, snobbish people I've ever met. Very few are going into it because they want to help people.

gman

Ally7

Chuchoter wrote: »

To a large extent, most of the people I know going for 'med' are the most arrogant, self serving, snobbish people I've ever met. Very few are going into it because they want to help people.

This can work boths ways, I hate telling people I want to do medicine because some people automatically believe you're an arrogant stuck-up bítch. I think I'd love to study medicine and I like dealing with people, but some feel I'm only going for it because I'm capable of doing it. They don't actually realise the reason I study so much is because I need brilliant grades to get in.

QueenOfLeon

fewtinsoffroth wrote: »

I can't get my head around people thinking that med hopefuls are choosing to study medicine cause they have points in the bag.

Surely the majority of people who want to study medicine are doing well in school cause they need too, to get into college, they don't want to study medicine, because they're doing well in school?

Around the time I got my results, the amount of people who said something like "Oh, thats great, I assume you'll be doing medicine then?" was unbelievable. Its such a ridiculous notion, and terribly annoying. It was very awkward to have to say yes, but then try and explain that its not because you magically got the points and decided that medicine would do, its because you worked towards high points in order to get that very course.

I found that some career guidance teachers, and other teachers in my school, were terrible for sticking the notion into peoples heads. Anyone who they reckoned was capable of doing well (but who were not putting down medicine on the CAO) were looked at in shock - why aren't you doing something like medicine?

We have had a few people leave the course, however, there are still a lot in it who will openly say that they're in it for the job security, the money, because their parents wanted them to do it, they knew they'd get the points so sure why not, etc etc. Its annoying, but what can you do.

flyaway.

A girl in my school put down medicine (as her first choice!) just to say she had it down... she ended up getting it, and not her second choice which she actually wanted. She took the place and dropped out after about 4 months.

There was a girl in my class last year who also put medicine down as her first choice, her words were ''I don't actually want it but I'll take the place if I get it. I just put it down for the sake of it.'' She didn't end up getting it.

Konata

QueenOfLeon wrote: »

Around the time I got my results, the amount of people who said something like "Oh, thats great, I assume you'll be doing medicine then?" was unbelievable. Its such a ridiculous notion, and terribly annoying. It was very awkward to have to say yes, but then try and explain that its not because you magically got the points and decided that medicine would do, its because you worked towards high points in order to get that very course.

I found that some career guidance teachers, and other teachers in my school, were terrible for sticking the notion into peoples heads. Anyone who they reckoned was capable of doing well (but who were not putting down medicine on the CAO) were looked at in shock - why aren't you doing something like medicine?

^^ THIS! I spent a good half hour explaining to my career guidance teacher all the reasons why I DIDN'T want to do medicine during 6th year. Lo and behold, day of results comes round, I get 8A1s and first thing career guidance teacher says to me? "Why aren't you doing medicine??". Fúcks sake like, I hate that you're expected to do medicine or law etc. just because you get high points. I'd be a useless doctor, absolutely crap!

It's really, really hard to not feel that pressure to do something "great" with your points - even I, who was so serious about not doing medicine, doubted my choice a little bit after I got my results. But it's also pretty sad when people DO give in to that pressure and hence take away college positions from people would would make fantastic doctors and may have just missed the points cut.

Eathrin

Konata wrote: »

^^ THIS! I spent a good half hour explaining to my career guidance teacher all the reasons why I DIDN'T want to do medicine during 6th year. Lo and behold, day of results comes round, I get 8A1s and first thing career guidance teacher says to me? "Why aren't you doing medicine??". Fúcks sake like, I hate that you're expected to do medicine or law etc. just because you get high points. I'd be a useless doctor, absolutely crap!

It's really, really hard to not feel that pressure to do something "great" with your points - even I, who was so serious about not doing medicine, doubted my choice a little bit after I got my results. But it's also pretty sad when people DO give in to that pressure and hence take away college positions from people would would make fantastic doctors and may have just missed the points cut.

That's incredible! Such a messed up system. So what did you end up doing?

Konata

Cian A wrote: »

That's incredible! Such a messed up system. So what did you end up doing?

Biomedical Science in UCD which I dropped out of after a year and a half. Now doing Applied Languages & Intercultural Studies (Japanese & French specifically) in DCU and I absolutely love it! Think the points were 300-and something this year?

esposito

There are also people who are quite delusional. I know one guy who's repeating the LC with the aim of getting into medicine. He essentially failed the Leaving Cert first time 'round. I just don't think he has the ability to get the points required. Having said that, he claims he always wanted to be a doctor from an early age so at least the interest is there. I just think it's a big ask. He needs to be realistic.

Also, I think the reason a lot of people want to do medicine might be down to obsessions with shows like Greys Anatomy etc ? He certainly loves it!

CIARAN_BOYLE

90% of people who are capable of 580+ points won't do the work necessary to get 600 points unless they need it and medicine is really the only course that needs such a high points total.

irish_man

One word = MONEY!!!!

Sid_Justice

High prestige.
Professional course (course gives you a profession, unlike a Law degree that doesn't make you a lawyer)
Unless you screw up you have high job security (you might have to move but you'd never be on the dole with med degree).
Better money than 90% of the jobs out there.
Glamorised by television and film.

And all the stuff you've already mentioned about exclusivity and people wanting to spend their points on the most expensive item they can.

J_E

irish_man wrote: »

One word = MONEY!!!!

The problem is though there's not as much money in it as you'd like to think; At least, not for the first 5-10 years or so. If you're in it for the money you're in the wrong career, why would you not go for business or law if you wanted money? Much easier way to get it.

eyescreamcone

It would be interesting to find out how much money they actually make.
For instance 1st year out of college.
How much? after overtime etc?

irish_man

Cydoniac wrote: »

The problem is though there's not as much money in it as you'd like to think; At least, not for the first 5-10 years or so. If you're in it for the money you're in the wrong career, why would you not go for business or law if you wanted money? Much easier way to get it.

A relative of mine is a doc and is on €300,000 a year. He's 33. I know he worked very hard to be where he is not but people hear that and think "I'd like that" then they try for medicine. Also, at least for the first 5-10 years you have a job. How many courses are you guaranteed a job at the end? These days people want job security, so business is a no no (look at Aviva a week ago), same with computers and some types of engineering. The almost certainty of a job at the end of medicine attracts many to it.

In relation to B&L, there aren't as many jobs for B&L graduates nowadays. A lot go abroad. Don't know why the points in trinners are so high.(555 I think) A good few people who I know who got B&L from UCD have spent the last 12 months on the dole.

Personally, I'd hate to do medicine. I don't think I could deal with people dying or cutting someone up. I'd prefer a brainless enough job. One where you go home and have no worries about what happened in work that day. (if you were a doc you may have preformed surgery and could be stressed about it that night). It would have to have a decent wage too. I know people saying "Don't do X for the money" but realistically if you work hard you want to receive a fair wage for your hard work. Would you honestly refer to enjoy your job and not be able to live comfortably or to slightly dislike your job and live comfortably and be able to provide for your family?

Chuchoter

Medicine, not only does it have horrendous working conditions, far from guarantees you a permanent job here. I'd more say it guarantees you a permanent move to Austrailia, I'd strongly advise anyone considering medicine and thinking that sure they can handle 'hard work'. You won't have a permanent job, your overtime won't be paid half the time and you will work illegal numbers of hours. The Irish system is a catastrophe. If you want more info head over to the health sciences forum

eyescreamcone

Chuchoter wrote: »

Medicine, not only does it have horrendous working conditions, far from guarantees you a permanent job here. I'd more say it guarantees you a permanent move to Austrailia, I'd strongly advise anyone considering medicine and thinking that sure they can handle 'hard work'. You won't have a permanent job, your overtime won't be paid half the time and you will work illegal numbers of hours. The Irish system is a catastrophe. If you want more info head over to the health sciences forum

Not too many unemployed Med Graduates though is there???

Chuchoter

Did you know that for most NHCDs, there is no such thing as a permanent contract? Just 6 monthly ones. Go read the health sciences forum. Medicine isn't the career it used to be.

dambarude

Konata wrote: »

It's really, really hard to not feel that pressure to do something "great" with your points - even I, who was so serious about not doing medicine, doubted my choice a little bit after I got my results. But it's also pretty sad when people DO give in to that pressure and hence take away college positions from people would would make fantastic doctors and may have just missed the points cut.

I think it's understandable in the immediate aftermath of results for people to be making the 'wasted points' comment. But it gets pretty annoying a few years afterwards... that's what I find anyway. Especially when you they say things like 'shur you're only doing X, and you could have done Y - you're mad!'. And tbh I'd be lying if sometimes it wouldn't make you wonder... especially with the way things are with the economy, and medicine being a reasonably safe bet of employment and big bucks. But then you think of all the reasons why you didn't buckle under the pressure and you realise you've made the right decision.

It's the you're 'only' doing comments which really get to me!

QueenOfLeon

This thread is an interesting read for anyone who likes to idealise the career. Probably something along the lines of what Chuchoter was referring to earlier.

jumpguy

If you really wanna do it, do your best to get work experience, check do your interests line up with the job, talk to doctors who've been in the job for a good few years and go for it. Fúck people who say you can't get it, pretty much nobody believed I would until I did.

Anyway, what's the obsession? Lots of people wanna do it - it's a class course. I can't think of many other courses where you must push yourself as much. It's tough as fúck and challenges you on all levels, academically, physically, emotionally, etc, but think of what you get to do at the end of it - you get to apply your skill and knowledge to help people. You might be the reason a person's cancer goes into remission, or why someone's brain damage from a stroke has been vastly limited. You might just be the reason someone dies a comfortable death and the one who makes the death a bit less traumatic to loved ones.

Perhaps I've an idealistic view - but pay-wise, you're never gonna have to worry about it too much, at the end of the day you're a doctor. It's the trust and responsibility society places on you, which is both a privilege and a great lot of pressure at the same time. Sure, people do it for the "wrong" reasons, but they either won't last or will just fade out, nobody can stick at something they hate doing for the rest of their lives.

I've rarely heard the stuff I've read on Health Sciences being said by highly experienced doctors. It's hard at first - but no job starts out easy. My brother works in finance and when he started he'd often work 13 hour days. The bottom of the ladder never gets it easy - in any profession.

0mega

I'm surprised at most of the opinions here on people who want to do medicine. I'm sure that there is a small percentage of those who just want it to set themselves apart from others, but think of the workload involved in first of all - getting the points to do medicine and then the amount of work needed to do the course.

I really doubt that many people who have no interest in medicine and no real desire to work as a doctor would put themselves through that for a sense of superiority.