A Real Holocaust: Dresden -- 13 February 1945

Dude111

http://globalfire.tv/nj/08en/history/dresden.htm

How approximately 500,000 Germans were exterminated in one night

The Germans would have to be angels and saints to forget and forgive all the injustices, atrocities and cruelties which they have suffered, twice in a generation, without any provocation, from the allies. Just imagine what would we, as Americans, do if we had been treated as we treated the Germans, our cruelty would have no limits in revenging our suffering! Reverend Ludwig A. Fritsch, Ph. D., D. D. emer., Chicago, 1948 [more]

Very very sad....

I AM JUST SO SICK OF ALL THIS EVIL AND THE HUMAN ANIMAL RACE IN GENERAL..... NO OTHER LIFEFORM DOES THIS AND ITS JUST SICK..

Judgement Day

Dude111 wrote: »

http://globalfire.tv/nj/08en/history/dresden.htm

How approximately 500,000 Germans were exterminated in one night

Very very sad....

I AM JUST SO SICK OF ALL THIS EVIL AND THE HUMAN ANIMAL RACE IN GENERAL..... NO OTHER LIFEFORM DOES THIS AND ITS JUST SICK..

Very sad indeed but what's the 'without any provocation' nonsense about?

Snickers Man

OK so it was nowhere near half a million people. Probably closer to 50,000 and some say even that is an overestimate.

And maybe there was a little provocation, what with there being a war and all.

So that makes it all OK.

who the fug

The Poles started it

:rolleyes:

Judgement Day

Yes, that's a great little Nazi website to be sure - really impartial, unbiased, historically accurate......words fail me. What was the OP on?

reprazant

Judgement Day wrote: »

Yes, that's a great little Nazi website to be sure - really impartial, unbiased, historically accurate......words fail me. What was the OP on?

I am curious as to what he means by ' A Real Holocaust'. Are other holocausts not as real as this one?

who the fug

reprazant wrote: »

I am curious as to what he means by ' A Real Holocaust'. Are other holocausts not as real as this one?

I think the writer is using the Spanish word Real, so this was a Royal Holocaust , otherwise he would be insinuating that the Holocaust never happened


Nobody could be that stupid

Tiocfaidh Armani

Was it not 25,000 that died in the bombing of Dresden? A shameful event no doubt all the time and why I can't take an lectures from the Brits about terrorism and the killing of innocents:rolleyes:

Judgement Day

Tiocfaidh Armani wrote: »

Was it not 25,000 that died in the bombing of Dresden? A shameful event no doubt all the time and why I can't take an lectures from the Brits about terrorism and the killing of innocents:rolleyes:

I don't know about shameful given that it was total war and what would have happened to Britain - not to mention neutral Ireland - if Hitler had developed the A bomb first. The mind boggles.

Benny_Cake

who the fug wrote: »

I think the writer is using the Spanish word Real, so this was a Royal Holocaust , otherwise he would be insinuating that the Holocaust never happened


Nobody could be that stupid

Given that the site he links to contains a section called "Holocaust Industry" and "Is Lucifer the god of Judaism" - he could very well be insinuating that the Holocaust never happened.

getz

Tiocfaidh Armani wrote: »

Was it not 25,000 that died in the bombing of Dresden? A shameful event no doubt all the time and why I can't take an lectures from the Brits about terrorism and the killing of innocents:rolleyes:

just another attempt at brit bashing,notice no mention of the 600,000 people who died from the german blitz of the UK ,or even the hiroshima and nagasaki bombings of japan when between 600,000 and 700,000 killed or missing plus 140,000 were injured, both japan and germany were the first to use bombing

Tiocfaidh Armani

getz wrote: »

just another attempt at brit bashing,notice no mention of the 600,000 people who died from the german blitz of the UK ,or even the hiroshima and nagasaki bombings of japan when between 600,000 and 700,000 killed or missing plus 140,000 were injured, both japan and germany were the first to use bombing

All shameful events, there's never any excuse for bombing a residential area and murdering innocent people as they sleep. None.

Tiocfaidh Armani

Judgement Day wrote: »

I don't know about shameful given that it was total war and what would have happened to Britain - not to mention neutral Ireland - if Hitler had developed the A bomb first. The mind boggles.

No defence for murdering 25,000 innocent people as they sleep. You lose the high moral ground a bit when you go down that road.

The mind boggles? So it was okay to do it because the biggest p*ick in history would have done it so it's okay you do it.:rolleyes:

Oh dear, if that's you rational the mind boggles indeed.....:o

getz

Tiocfaidh Armani wrote: »

All shameful events, there's never any excuse for bombing a residential area and murdering innocent people as they sleep. None.

war has no morals its a kill to survive,its very easy for you to look at it as history but for me [i am over 70 ] i can remember living in manchester having to carry a gas mask everyware with me, also my nights in air raid shelters ,the sireens and the loud bangs as the bombs went off,as well as the attempt by the luftwaffe dropping incendiary devices,whole blocks of my street in flame or destroyed ,when that kind of thing happens to you,morals will meen nothing

Tiocfaidh Armani

getz wrote: »

war has no morals its a kill to survive,its very easy for you to look at it as history but for me [i am over 70 ] i can remember living in manchester having to carry a gas mask everyware with me, also my nights in air raid shelters ,the sireens and the loud bangs as the bombs went off,as well as the attempt by the luftwaffe dropping incendiary devices,whole blocks of my street in flame or destroyed ,when that kind of thing happens to you,morals will meen nothing

I respect where you're coming from but if you have no problem with the carpet bombing of others when you know how it felt to even have the threat of it yourself then that's wrong and a strange set of morals you have.

Benny_Cake

The bombing of Dresden is particularly troublesome as it happened so late in the war - it is difficult to see how it could have had any major impact on the way the war went. It's one of these things that can be difficult to discuss though, particularly since neo-Nazi elements such as the NPD in Germany use it as a rallying cry. Ultimately,once the war started,events took their own course and the primary responsibility lies with those who initiated the war.However, Dresden was tragic imho and probably shouldn't have gone ahead.

ejmaztec

Benny_Cake wrote: »

The bombing of Dresden is particularly troublesome as it happened so late in the war - it is difficult to see how it could have had any major impact on the way the war went. It's one of these things that can be difficult to discuss though, particularly since neo-Nazi elements such as the NPD in Germany use it as a rallying cry. Ultimately,once the war started,events took their own course and the primary responsibility lies with those who initiated the war.However, Dresden was tragic imho and probably shouldn't have gone ahead.

The Russians wanted it to take place, so that the Nazis would spread their resources, and give the Soviet forces an easier time as they headed for Berlin.


http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=68915647&postcount=16

ReacherCreature

Benny_Cake wrote: »

The bombing of Dresden is particularly troublesome as it happened so late in the war - it is difficult to see how it could have had any major impact on the way the war went. It's one of these things that can be difficult to discuss though, particularly since neo-Nazi elements such as the NPD in Germany use it as a rallying cry. Ultimately,once the war started,events took their own course and the primary responsibility lies with those who initiated the war.However, Dresden was tragic imho and probably shouldn't have gone ahead.

I think it was so late in the war and with the increasing effectiveness and numerical raids going ahead it was consigned to the cities that were bombed, little fuss about it until after the war.

Fratton Fred

ReacherCreature wrote: »

I think it was so late in the war and with the increasing effectiveness and numerical raids going ahead it was consigned to the cities that were bombed, little fuss about it until after the war.

It did prompt Churchill to write to Harris and call a stop to area bombing though.

MarchDub

Fratton Fred wrote: »

It did prompt Churchill to write to Harris and call a stop to area bombing though.

Oh good old Churchill - always the humanitarian.

Fratton Fred

MarchDub wrote: »

Oh good old Churchill - always the humanitarian.

No, a politician who realised that public opinion was against the manner of the raid.

MarchDub

Fratton Fred wrote: »

No, a politician who realised that public opinion was against the manner of the raid.

I didn't doubt it for a moment.

Nhead

Jaysus ladies and gents how did a holocaust thread turn to Brit bashing??I know some people disagree with Britain but really..

Fratton Fred

Nhead wrote: »

Jaysus ladies and gents how did a holocaust thread turn to Brit bashing??I know some people disagree with Britain but really..

Because it was all down to the Brits, a completely unprovoked raid carried out solely by the RAF. The US 8th air force and the fact there was a war on had nothing to do with it.

Tiocfaidh Armani

Fratton Fred wrote: »

Because it was all down to the Brits, a completely unprovoked raid carried out solely by the RAF. The US 8th air force and the fact there was a war on had nothing to do with it.

So carpet bombing of civilians as they sleep is okay in a war? You can justify that can you?

Benny_Cake

Tiocfaidh Armani wrote: »

Fratton Fred wrote: »

Because it was all down to the Brits, a completely unprovoked raid carried out solely by the RAF. The US 8th air force and the fact there was a war on had nothing to do with it.

So carpet bombing of civilians as they sleep is okay in a war? You can justify that can you?

I think he means that the focus here seems to be entirely on the RAF. The USAF also took part in the raid on Dresden and plenty of other countries carried out carpet bombing - in WW2 it began with the Luftwaffe raid on Rotterdam.

Nhead

Tiocfaidh Armani wrote: »

So carpet bombing of civilians as they sleep is okay in a war? You can justify that can you?

But surely the real problem with the OP is the fact the person is defining Dresden as a 'real' holocaust suggesting the actual holocaust was false or didn't happen? And from an historical perspective the USAAF was also involved in the bombing so why are people just highlighting Britain's role??

looksee

Nhead wrote: »

But surely the real problem with the OP is the fact the person is defining Dresden as a 'real' holocaust suggesting the actual holocaust was false or didn't happen? And from an historical perspective the USAAF was also involved in the bombing so why are people just highlighting Britain's role??

Because that's what you do on Boards, it usually gets you loads of thanks, though it doesn't seem to be happening quite so quickly here - OP you should have done your bit of hand wringing angst in AH to get the response you are looking for.

Tiocfaidh Armani

Nhead wrote: »

But surely the real problem with the OP is the fact the person is defining Dresden as a 'real' holocaust suggesting the actual holocaust was false or didn't happen? And from an historical perspective the USAAF was also involved in the bombing so why are people just highlighting Britain's role??

Fair point, but anything I've read has been re Britain and I live there and their own press don't mention US involvement so maybe they're just anti-British also.....

I understand about the term 'real' holocaust, while I'm sure he's not denying the holocaust, it could be taken that way. Perhaps he could clarify.

I think he means that the focus here seems to be entirely on the RAF. The USAF also took part in the raid on Dresden and plenty of other countries carried out carpet bombing - in WW2 it began with the Luftwaffe raid on Rotterdam.

As I've said on American forums re their A bomb attacks, they are all wrong.

So funny to see people lecture about Irish people who fought for freedom in Ireland get blackened when civilians die (example Kevin Myers about the 14 year old shot dead for trying to raise the alarm about the Rising), yet people will gloss over the carpet bombing of tens of thousands of civilians and just say "ah sure, it was a war like":rolleyes:

Nhead

Tiocfaidh Armani wrote: »

Fair point, but anything I've read has been re Britain and I live there and their own press don't mention US involvement so maybe they're just anti-British also.....

I understand about the term 'real' holocaust, while I'm sure he's not denying the holocaust, it could be taken that way. Perhaps he could clarify.



As I've said on American forums re their A bomb attacks, they are all wrong.

So funny to see people lecture about Irish people who fought for freedom in Ireland get blackened when civilians die (example Kevin Myers about the 14 year old shot dead for trying to raise the alarm about the Rising), yet people will gloss over the carpet bombing of tens of thousands of civilians and just say "ah sure, it was a war like":rolleyes:

Ah sure ya know Kev, he loves the controversy.

MarchDub

looksee wrote: »

Because that's what you do on Boards, it usually gets you loads of thanks, though it doesn't seem to be happening quite so quickly here - OP you should have done your bit of hand wringing angst in AH to get the response you are looking for.

This is out of line IMO - how much time do you spend contributing to the H & H forum?

MarchDub

Nhead wrote: »

Jaysus ladies and gents how did a holocaust thread turn to Brit bashing??I know some people disagree with Britain but really..

IMO I think there is a difference between mindful bashing and reacting to the Brits being held up as paragons of virtue. There is a deal of that on here too you know.

MarchDub

Tiocfaidh Armani wrote: »

So funny to see people lecture about Irish people who fought for freedom in Ireland get blackened when civilians die (example Kevin Myers about the 14 year old shot dead for trying to raise the alarm about the Rising), yet people will gloss over the carpet bombing of tens of thousands of civilians and just say "ah sure, it was a war like":rolleyes:

Yes, that is a really good point.

charlemont

I'v read a lot about Dresden and it was all horrid reading but everything to do with that war was horrid, If Hitler had nuclear weapons we would discussing the deaths of at least a million in London now, There was no need to fire-storm Dresden but it send a message to the German public that resistance to the allies was futile and I think the Germans got the message.

looksee

MarchDub wrote: »

This is out of line IMO - how much time do you spend contributing to the H & H forum?

About as much time as the OP - why? Do you have to post a certain number of times before you can post...oh hang on a minute, that doesn't make sense.

If you read my post carefully I am suggesting that the users of H&H have a rather more balanced response to emotive hystrionics than AH. Of course you may feel that the OP's sudden attack of 'shock horror' about a 65 year old tragedy of war that he has only just heard about is warrented. In that case I will leave you to apply sal volatile and talk him through it.

Nhead

MarchDub wrote: »

IMO I think there is a difference between mindful bashing and reacting to the Brits being held up as paragons of virtue. There is a deal of that on here too you know.

Of course. It's always pointed out too

MarchDub

looksee wrote: »

About as much time as the OP - why? Do you have to post a certain number of times before you can post...oh hang on a minute, that doesn't make sense.

If you read my post carefully I am suggesting that the users of H&H have a rather more balanced response to emotive hystrionics than AH. Of course you may feel that the OP's sudden attack of 'shock horror' about a 65 year old tragedy of war that he has only just heard about is warrented. In that case I will leave you to apply sal volatile and talk him through it.

The point I was making is that your post added nothing to the discussion but incitement.

Whether you agree or disagree with the OP is within reason but give your sources for doing so - but you didn't do this. Furthermore, suggesting a post was only posted to get 'thanks' is simply asinine and pointless.

jonniebgood1

Dude111 wrote: »

http://globalfire.tv/nj/08en/history/dresden.htm

How approximately 500,000 Germans were exterminated in one night

Very very sad....

I AM JUST SO SICK OF ALL THIS EVIL AND THE HUMAN ANIMAL RACE IN GENERAL..... NO OTHER LIFEFORM DOES THIS AND ITS JUST SICK..

A discussion on Dresden would be welcome on this forum however I have misgivings about the thread title and the first post. I would ask for the OP to clarify what is meant by the 'real' holocaust.

I feel it is also important for people posting to understand that the link in the OP is very dubious. Although the linked page is unclear it appears the article quoted is taken from the Barnes review. This is a publication that should be treated carefully as it has got a reputation. Here is a link to a barnes review piece that claims Hitler was deserving of the nobel prize:

If anyone deserved the Nobel Peace Prize, it was Adolf Hitler. Hitler did not want war. World War II was forced on Germany. Poland was encouraged to attack Germany by the promises of British Ambassador Sir Howard William Kennard and French Ambassador Leon Noel. They promised unconditionally that England and France would come to Poland’s immediate aid should she need it in case of war with Germany; therefore, no matter what Poland did to provoke Germany’s attack, Poland had an assurance from England and France. With this guarantee, Poland began acting ruthlessly. In addition, Kennard and Noel flattered Poland into thinking she was a great power. http://www.barnesreview.org/index.php?main_page=document_product_info&cPath=89_111&products_id=502

And a review of the barnes review

Founded by Willis Carto in 1994, The Barnes Review (TBR) is one of the most virulent anti-Semitic organizations around. Its flagship journal, The Barnes Review, and its website, Barnesreview.org, are dedicated to historical revisionism and Holocaust denial. http://www.splcenter.org/get-informed/intelligence-files/groups/barnes-review

The Barnes review is the product of Willis Carto, well known for his views http://www.adl.org/learn/ext_us/carto.asp?xpicked=2&item=carto
and a piece on his writings http://www.nizkor.org/faqs/ihr/ihr-faq-02.html

The OP should clarify if they are aware of the nature of the articles source in this case. My apologies to those interested in this subject- I am locking the thread as I await clarification from OP, however if anyone wants to start a discussion on Dresden or WWII in general the subject would be welcomed. Should anyone have comment on this please PM me.

Moderator.