Carson Palmer traded to Raiders

UnitedIrishman

The Raiders & Bengals are close to a trade that would send Carson Palmer to OAK for a first-rounder in 2012 and a conditional pick in future.

The trade is expected to be completed by deadline. Hue Jackson has a close relationship w Mike Brown and really worked to get Brown to budge

From Jay Glazer.

Does that not seem like a lot? I know Palmer is a solid QB but worth a first round pick?

Peyton Manning

I'm just shocked the Raiders still have a first round pick to trade. If they give that up, what have they left in 2012? Very little surely?

mikemac

mortreport Chris Mortensen
The 2013 pick is a conditional - it can become a first rounder based on playtime, other incentives. Plus the 2012 first rounder

A first for next year and then a conditional the year after which may turn into another first

Madness to give up that much for Palmer

Cam Newton wrote: »

I'm just shocked the Raiders still have a first round pick to trade. If they give that up, what have they left in 2012? Very little surely?

Barely anything at all

mortreport Chris Mortensen
Raiders now do not have 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th and 7th round picks in 2012 but do expect decent compensatory picks back for Gallery/Asomugha

Leaving aside the comp picks, their draft starts in the fifth round

Chucky the tree

Reeks of desperation, which it is. If it pays off and we make the play-offs this year and next then it won't be bad. If we don't however it could(should?) cost Hue his job.

GoldFour4

its a bold move but I suppose they are determined to make the playoffs this year and that isn`t gonna happen with Kyle Boller. Palmer could regain his old form. Hes a good upgrade on campbell if you ask me. Its a big price to pay though. Bengals are certainly getting their moneys worth. Good work by their front office.

SSK

What are the Raiders doing?? Mental, mental trade if it goes through, Palmer hasn't played a good, injury free season since what...2006?

Is Al back from the dead :eek:

FreeOSCAR

The AFC West will be interesting to watch the rest of the year now.

Whatever about the Raiders gung ho draft pick approach, they make things interesting

ReacherCreature

It will be also interesting to see how he fits in playbook wise. He's spent under 10 years in the Bengals offense, is traded midweek and has a game at the weekend.

He'll be 32 in November as well.

D3PO

Mother of god that is some seriously bad negotiation by the Raiders. You could probably have got Palmer for a Third rounder and they potential give up two first rounders !!! WTF :eek::eek:

Spongey1975

D3PO wrote: »

Mother of god that is some seriously bad negotiation by the Raiders. You could probably have got Palmer for a Third rounder and they potential give up two first rounders !!! WTF :eek::eek:

Raiders have hardly any picks in next years drafts. Seriously paid too much for Palmer but nothing out there for Raiders to fill the gap for rest of season probably forced their hand. Its got Al Davis RIP written all over this trade

mikemac

The Bengals have traded quarterback Carson Palmer to the Raiders for a first-round pick in 2012, and a conditional first-round pick in 2013, according to Adam Schefter of ESPN.

Done deal

Bengals are a good young team, lots of cap room and now all these picks.
The future's bright – the future's Orange

Will probably pass out the Steelers in the AFC North in years to come, well possible anyway

Chucky the tree

Al would have never made a trade this bad.

SSK

I really can't believe that. Palmer is the best of whats out there but surely thats massively overpaying?

Hazys

Wow a first round pick for Palmer, thats regronkulous!!

He is essentially their 2nd choice QB, 31 years old, who hasnt trained this year and is coming off a 77.3 QB rating last year with a team that has improved leaps and bounds without him.

He has only every had 2 good years statistically and to me he is a bust at the no1 pick. His career stats are comparable to Garrards.

I guess the craziness of Al will live on with the Raiders...do they even have a pick in next years draft now?

mikemac

Hazys wrote: »

do they even have a pick in next years draft now?

A fifth and a sixth

Hazys

From the Bengals perspective a first round pick is a steal even considering the fact that they are helping out a playoff rival.

A 1st round pick for your backup QB! They drafted Dalton with a first round pick to replace Palmer...essetially they now got Dalton for free!!


"Glazer reports that the 2013 pick is a second-round selection that can become a first-round pick."

A 1st and a 2nd (that could become a 1st)....INSANE!!!

SSK

If Dalton is as good as he's looked the last few weeks, the Bengals could be awesome in a couple of years. Don't think anyone would have seen that coming during the off-season

Stev_o

SSK wrote: »

If Dalton is as good as he's looked the last few weeks, the Bengals could be awesome in a couple of years. Don't think anyone would have seen that coming during the off-season

Dalton's schedule is quite easy imo. He's had it pretty easy playing against the teams he has so far.

SSK

Stev_o wrote: »

Dalton's schedule is quite easy imo. He's had it pretty easy playing against the teams he has so far.

Yeah but even taking that into account he's looked good. It's tough for a rookie QB to come in and look at home, irrespective of the teams he's faced.

OAOB

Terrible trade for the Raiders imo, Palmer was average at best for the last few seasons. Some going by the Bengals to get that much for him considering they've already got their QB of the future.
I was presuming the Raiders were just needing a veteran QB to fill the void in the hopes that Pryor would be ready to play next year or the year after but this is a huge price to pay for that so i'd have to reckon that Pryor hasn't been impressing as a QB and they're hoping Palmer is the long term starter(but at 32 that won't be the case).
This to me seems like a huge price to pay to get an average QB, sure i'd say they could have got McNabb for about a 4th round pick the way he's been playing this season.:p

Max Power1

Chucky the tree wrote: »

Reeks of desperation, which it is. If it pays off and we make the play-offs this year and next then it won't be bad. If we don't however it could(should?) cost Hue his job.

+1

An average to good trade considering the circumstances imo. What are our other options, Garrard and the like?
I'd take an (overpriced) proven upper tier QB over that type of player IMO.

Also, this would have been an upgrade whether or not Campbell was injured - he wouldnt be in the same league as Palmer.

Chucky the tree

OAOB wrote: »

Terrible trade for the Raiders imo, Palmer was average at best for the last few seasons. Some going by the Bengals to get that much for him considering they've already got their QB of the future.
I was presuming the Raiders were just needing a veteran QB to fill the void in the hopes that Pryor would be ready to play next year or the year after but this is a huge price to pay for that so i'd have to reckon that Pryor hasn't been impressing as a QB and they're hoping Palmer is the long term starter(but at 32 that won't be the case).
This to me seems like a huge price to pay to get an average QB, sure i'd say they could have got McNabb for about a 4th round pick the way he's been playing this season.:p

But we wanted an average QB and not terrible one so why go after McNabb? Also, I'm pretty sure the coaching staff haven't already decided Pyror isn't good enough after just two weeks.

D3PO

Spongey1975 wrote: »

Raiders have hardly any picks in next years drafts. Seriously paid too much for Palmer but nothing out there for Raiders to fill the gap for rest of season probably forced their hand.

I totally disagree if they looked hard enough there were lots of potential options.

Vince Young. If the Eagles are committed to Kafka the Raiders probably could have got Young for a third rounder.

McNaab. Not played well but with a decent O Line and Run DMC would ahve done a good job to see the season through. The Vikes would have bitten their hand off for a Fifth or probably a sixth rounder

Gradkowski. Knows the offense and did a decent job their before could have got him back for sweet feck all.

Orton. Could have picked him up from Denver for Peanuts going by their trade of Llyod. Probably get him for a third rounder.

Thats just off the top of my head Im sure there are others.

Chucky the tree

D3PO wrote: »

I totally disagree if they looked hard enough there were lots of potential options.

Vince Young. If the Eagles are committed to Kafka the Raiders probably could have got Young for a third rounder.

McNaab. Not played well but with a decent O Line and Run DMC would ahve done a good job to see the season through. The Vikes would have bitten their hand off for a Fifth or probably a sixth rounder

Gradkowski. Knows the offense and did a decent job their before could have got him back for sweet feck all.

Orton. Could have picked him up from Denver for Peanuts going by their trade of Llyod. Probably get him for a third rounder.

Thats just off the top of my head Im sure there are others.

1. We tried for Young, decided against it. No idea why we even tried it in the first place, the guy is semi retarded and I wouldn't rely on him to learn how to spell his name by sunday let alone learn our play-book.

2. He has Adrian Peterson in Minnesota and has been garabage. He's done as an nfl QB.

3. Gradkowki doesn't have the arm for are vertical offense, he's also extremely injury prone, I'd be very surprised if he could have made it the rest of the year without an injury.

4. Orton, possibly considered it alright and wouldn't have minded it really.

Palmer is clearly the best QB available for us and we drafted him to be our guy for the next 3 years. We definitly overpaid but the options were limited with campbells contract being up in the summer.

tallaghtoutlaws

Palmer is the best QB out there in my mind also but as Chucky said the price given up for him was stupid.

I actually think Palmer will do a good job in Oakland. Solid WR corp and that O-line have been doing a good job protecting Campbell up to now. And they have a healthy McFadden.

matthew8

Mike Brown looks like a genius right now with his uncompromising approach. The offers have escalated from around a 3rd rounder to 2 1st rounders.

That said...
Those who think that the Bengals will be really good in the future, bear in mind that Mike Brown is at the helm and they have been a very bad franchise for 20 years.

I think Garrard would've been way better to have personally. He has a very similar style of play to Jason Campbell and would fit right in with the offense, and he has actually won a playoff game in his career.

tallaghtoutlaws

matthew8 wrote: »

Mike Brown looks like a genius right now with his uncompromising approach. The offers have escalated from around a 3rd rounder to 2 1st rounders.

That said...
Those who think that the Bengals will be really good in the future, bear in mind that Mike Brown is at the helm and they have been a very bad franchise for 20 years.

I think Garrard would've been way better to have personally. He has a very similar style of play to Jason Campbell and would fit right in with the offense, and he has actually won a playoff game in his career.

Agree with Garrard but that chap is a mutton head right now. He is getting surgery on his back which is mad considering he wanted a guaranteed starting spot from teams making him offers. Kind of explains why he was dropped by the Jags if that back injury was always going to require surgery.

Dohnny Jepp

If davis seen what palmer cost the raiders he'd die all over again

Chucky the tree

matthew8 wrote: »

Mike Brown looks like a genius right now with his uncompromising approach. The offers have escalated from around a 3rd rounder to 2 1st rounders.

That said...
Those who think that the Bengals will be really good in the future, bear in mind that Mike Brown is at the helm and they have been a very bad franchise for 20 years.

I think Garrard would've been way better to have personally. He has a very similar style of play to Jason Campbell and would fit right in with the offense, and he has actually won a playoff game in his career.

Like most nfl teams they've been excellent when they have had a good QB when Palmer played well. Dalton has looked very impressive for a rookie imo and AJ greene is going to be a superstar. They already have an solid defence and with two first rounders this year, and either two first or two se
conds the following year they are in a great position. A top level running back and that team is a serious threat, Steelers could be in big trouble.


Edit: Full trade is 2012 1st round, 2013 second round which will turn into a 2013 first rounders if we reach the AFC championship game either this year or next. So here's hoping it's a 2013 first.

matthew8

Chucky the tree wrote: »

Like most nfl teams they've been excellent when they have had a good QB when Palmer played well. Dalton has looked very impressive for a rookie imo and AJ greene is going to be a superstar. They already have an solid defence and with two first rounders this year, and either two first or two se
conds the following year they are in a great position. A top level running back and that team is a serious threat, Steelers could be in big trouble.


Edit: Full trade is 2012 1st round, 2013 second round which will turn into a 2013 first rounders if we reach the AFC championship game either this year or next. So here's hoping it's a 2013 first.

Would you call not winning a playoff game and infact only making the playoffs twice in 8 years excellent? I'd call it below average.

Syferus

It's a strange one when you have a serviceable back-up in Boller, a high-profile rookie you spent a 3rd rounder on and a starter who is saying he'll be fit in six weeks. I guess the Raiders will remain the Raiders with or without Al Davis at the helm.

tallaghtoutlaws

Syferus wrote: »

It's a strange one when you have a serviceable back-up in Boller, a high-profile rookie you spent a 3rd rounder on and a starter who is saying he'll be fit in six weeks. I guess the Raiders will remain the Raiders with or without Al Davis at the helm.

The Raiders want a QB who give them more of a chance of making the playoffs, Boller is definitely not that, Palmer is. As for Pryor, nowhere near ready to lead a team anywhere. The fact the Raiders have given up so much for Palmer it seems they want to win games this year and get to the playoffs. Boller/Pryor doesn't do that for you. Sitting Pryor behind Palmer for this season would be better for the Raiders and Pryor.

Just look at what Pryor said yesterday about starting:

"With a minimum amount of plays," the rookie said. "I mean, that's a big package. Me just starting for two weeks, I mean for two days, I only had two days of practice. That would be an awful lot. But if (the playbook) was cut down, of course."

Syferus

tallaghtoutlaws wrote: »

The Raiders want a QB who give them more of a chance of making the playoffs, Boller is definitely not that, Palmer is. As for Pryor, nowhere near ready to lead a team anywhere. The fact the Raiders have given up so much for Palmer it seems they want to win games this year and get to the playoffs. Boller/Pryor doesn't do that for you. Sitting Pryor behind Palmer for this season would be better for the Raiders and Pryor.

Just look at what Pryor said yesterday about starting:

No one even suggested Pyror should start, but he's supposed to be one to develop and suddenly now the Raiders have a very crowded pack at QB. And like you've said, Pryor's had about no chance to even make an impact in practice yet so they can't really have given up on him so it just makes this trade strange.

The Raiders have hardly been Air Corell, though, so I really don't see a two early round pick value in Palmer, a soon-to-be 32 year old who hasn't seen a single professional football practice in about 10 months over Boller who is at least familiar with the intricacies of the Raider offense. That's to say nothing of the fact Jason Campbell has been operating quietly effectively for the Raiders over the last two seasons and he has to feel like the Raiders have just shown zero faith in him going forward by getting Palmer.

The Raiders have already gutted so many draft picks lately that it's not even funny, but this one takes the cake and eats it in one bite.

Raze_them_all

So what qb's are still on track for the record?? I know AR was about 5-6 yards short of the average he neeeded this week but he's still in, who else?

tallaghtoutlaws

Syferus wrote: »

No one even suggested Pyror should start, but he's supposed to be one to develop and suddenly now the Raiders have a very crowded pack at QB. And like you've said, Pryor's had about no chance to even make an impact in practice yet so they can't really have given up on him so it just makes this trade strange.

How have they got a crowded pack? Campbell will now most likely go on IR and Boller and Pryor who is nowhere near ready. With Palmer on board 3 QBs is the average amount of QBs on any roster.

The Raiders have hardly been Air Corell, though, so I really don't see a two early round pick value in Palmer, a soon-to-be 32 year old who hasn't seen a single professional football practice in about 10 months over Boller who is at least familiar with the intricacies of the Raider offense.

I never said they got value in fact if you read my earlier posts I said they gave up too much for them but the fact stands Palmer is a better QB than Boller and will compliment that Receiving corp they have a lot better than both Campbell and Boller.

As for not seeing practice it has been known that Palmer continued to work out but he is in the game a long time im sure he wont find it hard getting back into the swing of things.

That's to say nothing of the fact Jason Campbell has been operating quietly effectively for the Raiders over the last two seasons and he has to feel like the Raiders have just shown zero faith in him going forward by getting Palmer.

But the issue here is trying to finish off the season on a high and they feel Palmer gives them that shot and the Bengals raped them for picks but obviously the Raiders feel it worth it. Campbells future isnt an issue here as lets face it the Raiders needed to replace him so they had a chance this season.

The Raiders have already gutted so many draft picks lately that it's not even funny, but this one takes the cake and eats it in one bite.

It definitely does but I honestly think as much as they have been ripped off Palmer is a good QB and with the weapons the Raiders have developed this season Palmer can do good things with them.

heyjude

The Bengals have traded Carson Palmer to the Raiders reportedly, for a first round pick in 2012 and a 2013 second round choice(which will apparently become a first round pick if the Raiders in the AFC Championship game in either of the next two years).

Very bold move, which must signal that either Jason Campbell's injury is more serious than reported or Hue Jackson doesn't have full confidence in Campbell and used his injury as an opportunity to replace him, as with this price tag, Palmer is moving with a multi year high value contract and not just to be a backup until Campbell returns. If Campbell does return to health, the Raiders might be able to offset some of the cost by trading Campbell.

But how long will it take Palmer, who hasn't played any football this season, to get up to speed with the Raiders playbook and personnel ? and can he return to his form of a few years ago, when he was a top ten NFL QB ? Surely he won't be ready to start against the Chiefs next Sunday.

tallaghtoutlaws

Discussion going on in the wacky thread dude starting at page 117

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055759462&page=117

heyjude

Cam Newton wrote: »

I'm just shocked the Raiders still have a first round pick to trade. If they give that up, what have they left in 2012? Very little surely?

They will be due compensatory picks for losing pro bowlers, Nandi Asomugha, Zach Miller and Robert Gallery(but that could be offset by the signing of Kevin Boss), though they obviously won't be first round picks. Does anyone know if the Raiders still owe the Redskins anything for the Campbell trade and if so, are they performance related and would they still be met if Campbell doesn't play again this season ?

mikemac

It's straightforward, not performance related

Raiders hand over next years fourth round pick to Washington for Campbell, that's all

TaosHum

I actually say fair play to the Raiders for having some balls and making that trade. Its worth the gamble if it pays off.

If they believe Palmer is a guy that could take the team forward, then you make the trade.

Chucky the tree

People can knock the trade all they like and I agree we have overpaid a lot but some of the OTT crticism has been pretty laughable. Fact is with this trade the Raiders have hugely increased there chances of making the play-offs and could arguable be favourites now. Even if Campbell was fit we'd have a better chance of making the play-offs with Carson.

Frisbee

Chucky the tree wrote: »

People can knock the trade all they like and I agree we have overpaid a lot but some of the OTT crticism has been pretty laughable. Fact is with this trade the Raiders have hugely increased there chances of making the play-offs and could arguable be favourites now. Even if Campbell was fit we'd have a better chance of making the play-offs with Carson.

This.

This came through just as I was going to bed last night and I was going nuts.

However having slept on it now I'm coming around to it slightly more. Yes we've hugely overpaid for him and it looks like we're going to have very little in the draft next year, but he's a big improvement on Campbell and hopefully can give Pryor a little more time to develop.

spiralism

Hugely overpaid yes and a bit of a kick in the balls to campbell... but if palmer doesn't play to his 2010 level (i get the feeling he won't and will play well, he clearly didn't bother his hole in cincy last year until the last 2 games which he saw as an audition to get out of there), i'd have to fancy the raiders winning the AFC West this year, he'll make them take the next step and San Diego are not all that.

Oakland are the team that I as a Broncos fan fear in the division, not the Chargers, who beat themselves as often as the opposition and were often the biggest fish in a small pond for years, arming the already talented Raiders team with a proven QB could really set them up for the coming years, the feckers.

expect Campbell to end up across the bay in San Fran by next season too btw

Syferus

Chucky the tree wrote: »

People can knock the trade all they like and I agree we have overpaid a lot but some of the OTT crticism has been pretty laughable. Fact is with this trade the Raiders have hugely increased there chances of making the play-offs and could arguable be favourites now. Even if Campbell was fit we'd have a better chance of making the play-offs with Carson.

How?

Sure, there's a chance Carson Palmer is magically as good as he was in 2006 before but I can't see anyone else saying a 32 year old that's been very average for many years, hasn't played a nick of pro football in almost a year and is expected to learn an offense at double-quick pace gives the Raiders a better chance to win than Campbell, a two-year Raiders veteran.

Campbell is no Brady or Manning but he's a player whose true value was masked for years because of the churn in Washington and now that he finally had a hint of stability with the Raiders he looked to be getting into the sort of stride that could easily have lead (and I use the word generously, DMC is the center of this offense no matter who the QB is) the Raiders into the play-offs.

This is a good (but personal, mind) piece on Campbell's situation: http://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/redskins/jason-campbells-future-once-again-up-in-the-air/2011/10/18/gIQAFmWPvL_story.html

A fit Campbell over a fit Palmer would be a no-brainer, honestly.

Chucky the tree

Syferus wrote: »

How?

Sure, there's a chance Carson Palmer is magically as good as he was in 2006 before but I can't see anyone else saying a 32 year old that's been very average for many years, hasn't played a nick of pro football in almost a year and is expected to learn an offense at double-quick pace gives the Raiders a better chance to win than Campbell, a two-year Raiders veteran.

Campbell is no Brady or Manning but he's a player whose true value was masked for years because of the churn in Washington and now that he finally had a hint of stability with the Raiders he looked to be getting into the sort of stride that could easily have lead (and I use the word generously, DMC is the center of this offense no matter who the QB is) the Raiders into the play-offs.

This is a good (but personal, mind) piece on Campbell's situation: http://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/redskins/jason-campbells-future-once-again-up-in-the-air/2011/10/18/gIQAFmWPvL_story.html

A fit Campbell over a fit Palmer would be a no-brainer, honestly.

Because Carson is a better QB then Campbell. Campbell is/was on pace for 16 TDs for the season, Carson lowest ever was 18 in 2003 when he played 13 games. Last year he threw 26 and 21 TD's respectively. Campbell will only get you so far, and the problem is that's really not very far. I said it before, someone in Campbells position who is on a team with a good defense, solid oline, excellent run game, good tight end and servicable WR's should be looking at more then a touchdown per game and 60% completion percentage.

Palmer isn't perfect by any means, but he has far better tools to be a great QB then Campbell and he really couldn't ask for a much better situation to walk into.

D3PO

Chucky the tree wrote: »

1. We tried for Young, decided against it. No idea why we even tried it in the first place, the guy is semi retarded and I wouldn't rely on him to learn how to spell his name by sunday let alone learn our play-book.

2. He has Adrian Peterson in Minnesota and has been garabage. He's done as an nfl QB.

3. Gradkowki doesn't have the arm for are vertical offense, he's also extremely injury prone, I'd be very surprised if he could have made it the rest of the year without an injury.

4. Orton, possibly considered it alright and wouldn't have minded it really.

Palmer is clearly the best QB available for us and we drafted him to be our guy for the next 3 years. We definitly overpaid but the options were limited with campbells contract being up in the summer.

Firstly I never once said they were better QB's that Palmer. I said they were better options. And in terms of the medium term competitiveness of the Raiders they are.

I believe that any of those 4 could have delivered a playoff spot for the Raiders without them selling the family silverware. Ok they might not deliver a superbowl but I dont think Palmer will either.

Palmer isnt the long term answer in Oakland but they are stuck with him for a few seasons now given the investment they have made. Surely spending a 4th rounder on Young or Orton who would still most probably deliver a playoff berth and if they got hot maybe more.

Christ for 2 first rounders, they could probably have packaged one more first rounder and maybe a second to trade up for Luck next year.

If your going to spend that much on a QB at least get one that isnt 32 years old out of the NFL for almost a year and with only 2 seasons of getting a team to the playoffs on his resume.

Chucky the tree

D3PO wrote: »

Firstly I never once said they were better QB's that Palmer. I said they were better options. And in terms of the medium term competitiveness of the Raiders they are.

I believe that any of those 4 could have delivered a playoff spot for the Raiders without them selling the family silverware. Ok they might not deliver a superbowl but I dont think Palmer will either.

Palmer isnt the long term answer in Oakland but they are stuck with him for a few seasons now given the investment they have made. Surely spending a 4th rounder on Young or Orton who would still most probably deliver a playoff berth and if they got hot maybe more.

Christ for 2 first rounders, they could probably have packaged one more first rounder and maybe a second to trade up for Luck next year.

If your going to spend that much on a QB at least get one that isnt 32 years old out of the NFL for almost a year and with only 2 seasons of getting a team to the playoffs on his resume.

It's a good thing they only spent one first round pick then isn't it.

death1234567

Crazy trade by the raiders, can't believe the bengals got that much

ReacherCreature

Do people even look through the forum for initial discussion on the topic? :P

Peyton Manning

Second time in a week heyjude has been guilty of this

adrian522

ReacherCreature wrote: »

Do people even look through the forum for initial discussion on the topic? :P

There was no thread on this, do you really expect people to read every thread before posting a new thread on a topical nfl story.

That other thread is over 100 pages long.