Is this something that ULSU need to look at?

Agent_99

NUIG have scrapped Rag Week.




http://www.thejournal.ie/nui-galway-students-vote-to-scrap-controversial-rag-week-256906-Oct2011/

SarahBeep!

Is it not better to have an official Charity week with SOME money being raised instead of students picking a week at random and going ape-sh*t because they got no Charity week??

Ginge Young

I gotta say I would be very interested in a discussion like this. I'll be first to I love Charity Week and the banter and craic to be had, and to be fair in UL we have won of the best ones in terms of behavior and money raised (thinking back to last charity week, there were few issues as far as I am aware of at least).

However the fact they got:

• A Festival Day
• 60k to help towards the financial difficulties of students
• Free membership to the gym for club members
• The free student healthcare thing (could involve us getting a better one)

It's just interesting I have to be fair. Dunno if we could ever expect a deal/offer like that, but still.....very interesting.

PinkBottle

Ginge Young wrote: »

I gotta say I would be very interested in a discussion like this. I'll be first to I love Charity Week and the banter and craic to be had, and to be fair in UL we have won of the best ones in terms of behavior and money raised (thinking back to last charity week, there were few issues as far as I am aware of at least).

However the fact they got:

• A Festival Day
• 60k to help towards the financial difficulties of students
• Free membership to the gym for club members
• The free student healthcare thing (could involve us getting a better one)

It's just interesting I have to be fair. Dunno if we could ever expect a deal/offer like that, but still.....very interesting.

I completely agree with Ginge, I love Charity Week, but what they got instead is very interesting and there doesn't seem to be too much backlash from what I can see at the moment!

ninty9er

Ginge Young wrote: »

I gotta say I would be very interested in a discussion like this. I'll be first to I love Charity Week and the banter and craic to be had, and to be fair in UL we have won of the best ones in terms of behavior and money raised (thinking back to last charity week, there were few issues as far as I am aware of at least).

However the fact they got:

• A Festival Day
• 60k to help towards the financial difficulties of students
• Free membership to the gym for club members
• The free student healthcare thing (could involve us getting a better one)

It's just interesting I have to be fair. Dunno if we could ever expect a deal/offer like that, but still.....very interesting.

**Disclaimer** This is not necessarily the view of ULSU. ULSU does not currently have a view on this matter.

It could be investigated should it be the wish of students. However, that article differs from the NUIGSU Statement which says that those concessions will be sought in return for the agreement of students to abandon RAG week.

Weeks like that cause unions, colleges and Gardaí more headaches than they are worth, but we do it because it's what the majority of students appear to want.

Feel free to come to me if you feel there is sufficient numbers to secure a similar agreement, but I would need such an approach on behlaf of about 1,000 students before I could consider approaching the VPAR with a detailed proposal.

In terms of administration of institutions, the funds available to support UL students are quite substantial and I could not make comment on the levels of support without having full figures. In reality, UL could possibly still be providing more than NUIG on a per capita basis even with an extra €60k being provided.

shabouwcaw

Yeah, I think it is interesting and definitely something that should be looked in to. I don't think the charity element could be downplayed, I think events like the Bar Boot Sale taking place could just be more emphasised and the charitable donations kept but spread throughout the year, without the general anti-social behaviour problems that manifest throughout the concentrated week that is Charity Week.

I honestly believe if the University was to pledge 60,000 to help struggling students, that would be reason enough to do it. Hell, I think the university should do that irregardless of the strings attached.

ninty9er

shabouwcaw wrote: »

I honestly believe if the University was to pledge 60,000 to help struggling students, that would be reason enough to do it. Hell, I think the university should do that irregardless of the strings attached.

On that point, this was requested by me during my term as DP/Welfare Officer, on a smaller scale, using figures from the previous year. Whilst sympathetic to the cause, Finance was not in a position to oblige.

We do these things as a given and a lot of what we do isn't necessarily all public, nor does it need to be. We're not here to blow our own trumpets.

shabouwcaw

On that point, this was requested by me during my term as DP/Welfare Officer, on a smaller scale, using figures from the previous year. Whilst sympathetic to the cause, Finance was not in a position to oblige.

We do these things as a given and a lot of what we do isn't necessarily all public, nor does it need to be. We're not here to blow our own trumpets.

oh, that wasn't a criticism of the SU (for once I guess!) I was just saying that I think NUIG should offer that 60K, if it's there, to the struggling students without using it as a carrot to ban RAG week. Like it's just the right thing to do, if they have the capability to do it

CiaranMT

OT for a sec, the mention of the gym membership in that article got me thinking - How is it UCC (for one) can afford to provide free membership for its students, and NUIG possibly provide free membership for sports club members?

ninty9er

CiaranMT wrote: »

OT for a sec, the mention of the gym membership in that article got me thinking - How is it UCC (for one) can afford to provide free membership for its students, and NUIG possibly provide free membership for sports club members?

It's part of the student levy in UCC, everyone pays even if they don't want to be a member.

Jester252

shabouwcaw wrote: »

oh, that wasn't a criticism of the SU (for once I guess!) I was just saying that I think NUIG should offer that 60K, if it's there, to the struggling students without using it as a carrot to ban RAG week. Like it's just the right thing to do, if they have the capability to do it

I agree with you that more help is needed for student with money problems but a university is not solely for the student (we are a big part I know). There are research groups that will give the university more good press then RAG/Charity week. So the money will more or less go to them.

For NUIG to offer this amount of money to student I think their are in their right to add this request to the fund. To be honest if RAG week still had its meaning the request would not have been asked. The last couple of year it has destroyed NUIG reputation with the locals especially and a university needs local support.

Also if I was dropping 60K on students I would what it to be spend on rent/book/food then beer.

If Charity week was cancelled in UL for this offer it should be taken up especially at this time, (I am not saying that we should stop giving to charity just maybe small events through out the year instead of one large week), as everyone involved in the offer is coming out on top.

As it stands, even with the re branding success, student are just using it as an excuses to drink and many are not actually giving any money to the charity involved.
(Note this is NOT a criticism of the ULSU)
The best figure that I could find was around €11,000 was raised and UL has over 11000 student.
It would be best just to follow in NUIG footsteps and get rid of Charity week.

seen2Bgreen

The vast majority of the madness, I'd nearly go so far as to say all of it, happens off campus where nothing is organised by any official organisation. Even before the date was announced there were massive house parties planned. Look at end of exams as a prime example.

Cancelling is a very easy option, but it is not a solution.


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21-03-2011, 17:32 #124 brucechan
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Its true that cancelling would propbably cause a big Facebook rebellion and a RAG week of sorts would take place. The on campus activities are well run and supervised, but its the off campus stuff that really needs to be addressed by UL, the SU and the Res Assoc. along with the Gardai and Co. Co. too (but the latter don't seem to give a crap anyway).
Unfortunately, Charity doesn't REALLY come into it.

Canned is right, when you look at the amount raised per head its fairly futile. Most students don't see Charity", they see "Piss Up".

In all probablity the Week won't be cancelled. But maybe a different angle is needed. MAYBE a percentage should be given to the Res. Assoc. to as a gesture to replace street signs, get litter picked up or whatever. Don't know what that percentage would be, its only a suggestion. Perhaps also University classes should take on some project for charity, ie 1st Business fund raise for Milford Hospice, 2nd Engineering do something for Special Olympics etc etc. Make it a team bulding kind of thing. Students will still have their piss up, the Residents are given something en lieu of the hassle, and the Charity is emphasised in Charity Week.

Its not perfect, but would anyone go along with that kind of notion?

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21-03-2011, 22:59 #125 bazkennedy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brucechan
Perhaps also University classes should take on some project for charity, ie 1st Business fund raise for Milford Hospice, 2nd Engineering do something for Special Olympics etc etc. Make it a team bulding kind of thing. Students will still have their piss up, the Residents are given something en lieu of the hassle, and the Charity is emphasised in Charity Week.

Its not perfect, but would anyone go along with that kind of notion?

This idea was floated this year and a good portion of class reps training was given over to it but i think the lead in time (end of week 4, start of week 6) was too short to get anything serious going. I think this has great potential

Some thoughts from another thread. I really think that cancelling the week won't work, but if the Charity aspect was compulsory for classes to get involved in, UL could really set an example to other 3rd level institutions.

Jester252

@seen2Bgreen use the quote function not copy paste

seen2Bgreen

why what's the problem?

highlydebased

seen2Bgreen wrote: »

why what's the problem?

You've copied all the buttons and symbols too!

CiaranMT

ninty9er wrote: »

It's part of the student levy in UCC, everyone pays even if they don't want to be a member.

I was aware, but their student levy can't be that much higher than ours?

OhMSGlive

CiaranMT wrote: »

I was aware, but their student levy can't be that much higher than ours?

It's about €149, which IIRC is €77 more than our own levy. Assuming the services supplied are the same, that means that UCC students are paying €77 for use of the gym.

freyners

Agent_99 wrote: »

NUIG have scrapped Rag Week.




http://www.thejournal.ie/nui-galway-students-vote-to-scrap-

controversial-rag-week-256906-Oct2011/

NUIGs had the writing on the wall for a long time because of the behaviour it caused over a number of years, especially last years. I think most of the student knew it was up so when their SU came with that offer (which is brilliant) they were happy to accept.

SarahBeep wrote:

Is it not better to have an official Charity week with SOME money being raised instead of students picking a week at random and going ape-sh*t because they got no Charity week??

Their is already talk of an unofficial one being organised by the pubs/clubs/fair amount of students..there is a facebook event up afaik.


UL is in a slightly different position where our rebranding of RAG week to charity week actually worked quite well. No were near the same level of anti social behaviour happened last year (thats not to say it still cannot be improved) and the charity aspect seems to have improved also (open to correction but didnt we increase total contribution from the week to charitys by a fair sum)

TBH i would prefer to wait and see if the improvements made on last years week continue in that vein before we get into this. If we can continue to improve the students behaviour and up our charity take then i would see no reason to cancel what is a highlight of most students years

OhMSGlive

freyners wrote: »

UL is in a slightly different position where our rebranding of RAG week to charity week actually worked quite well. No were near the same level of anti social behaviour happened last year (thats not to say it still cannot be improved) and the charity aspect seems to have improved also (open to correction but didnt we increase total contribution from the week to charitys by a fair sum)

TBH i would prefer to wait and see if the improvements made on last years week continue in that vein before we get into this. If we can continue to improve the students behaviour and up our charity take then i would see no reason to cancel what is a highlight of most students years

I'm with freyners on this one. There's no point in pulling it just as improvements are being made. If the behaviour goes the way of the Galway Rag Week, then maybe consider pulling the plug on it, but if the improvements are consistent, then there would be no point in pulling it.

constantg

ninty9er wrote: »

On that point, this was requested by me during my term as DP/Welfare Officer, on a smaller scale, using figures from the previous year. Whilst sympathetic to the cause, Finance was not in a position to oblige.

We do these things as a given and a lot of what we do isn't necessarily all public, nor does it need to be. We're not here to blow our own trumpets.

Anyone remember the top-up the university promised C&S for giving up alcohol sponsorship and then totally backed away from at speed!

DO NOT TRUST ANYONE promising a top-up of anything unless you have a legally binding document which you can hang them with if they back out.

Also NUIG has had SERIOUS problems in the past with student behaviour during rag weeks with dozens of students being arrested and massive problems with residents atm in the Newcastle area (think Elm Park, Groody and Briarfield put together) regarding student misbehaviour. There is talk of residents picketing the college gates over the anti-social behaviour.


Compare this with the relatively quiet UL charity weeks.....and the deliberately misleading articles and headlines in local newspapers, with misleading photographs....

OhMSGlive

constantg wrote: »

Anyone remember the top-up the university promised C&S for giving up alcohol sponsorship and then totally backed away from at speed!

DO NOT TRUST ANYONE promising a top-up of anything unless you have a legally binding document which you can hang them with if they back out.

Also NUIG has had SERIOUS problems in the past with student behaviour during rag weeks with dozens of students being arrested and massive problems with residents atm in the Newcastle area (think Elm Park, Groody and Briarfield put together) regarding student misbehaviour. There is talk of residents picketing the college gates over the anti-social behaviour.


Compare this with the relatively quiet UL charity weeks.....and the deliberately misleading articles and headlines in local newspapers, with misleading photographs....

Hit the nail on the head there.

Cossax

Define relatively quiet?
We've had cars over-turned, stones thrown at houses, windows broken, the interior of a bus wrecked and the general Milford area badly littered with cans and broken glass and cautions in recent years, off the top of my head.

SarahBeep!

Cossax wrote: »

Define relatively quiet?
We've had cars over-turned, stones thrown at houses, windows broken, the interior of a bus wrecked and the general Milford Castletroy area badly littered with cans and broken glass and cautions in recent years, off the top of my head.

I've to be careful walking to college in the morning because until the east gate I'm dodging shards of broken glass. That's nothing to do with Charity Week.

Jester252

Cossax wrote: »

Define relatively quiet?
We've had cars over-turned, stones thrown at houses, windows broken, the interior of a bus wrecked and the general Milford area badly littered with cans and broken glass and cautions in recent years, off the top of my head.

Would like to point out the word relatively in the statement.
It is a powerful word and should be handled with care like its brother.

constantg

Define relatively quiet?

NOT having 50 students arrested on the first day of RAG week.
NOT having the guards have to pull students from the river cos they thoguht it would be a good idea to build a raft and go paddling around, locked off their t*ts.

We've had cars over-turned

ONE CAR, SINGULAR. I only remember one picture. I was also on Exec when it happend, I was at the very frustrating meeting where we were clued in, so I know exactly why it was done and by extension, who was responsible. Had nothing to do with RAG week. Was a dispute between housemates that got out of hand.

Also the article which accompanied the picture in a local newspaper was GROSSLY misleading, especially its suggestion that a large number of UL students had been arrested during RAG week.

stones thrown at houses

Mindless stupidity of one student. An isolated case. And it was a brick of some sort wasn't it?

windows broken

This does happen unfortunately. But it happens everywhere, not just UL, Limerick or indeed the island of Ireland.

the interior of a bus wrecked

I'll give you that one. The bus driver's response? To let the troublemakers off the bus. Not to pull up at Henry St Garda station and ask them to investigate. Bus Eireann cancelled services late on 'student drinking nights', with very little warning as far as i know.

Also have you ever been on a bus passing through or near O'Malley Park/Southill/St. Mary's Park/Moyross/the Hyde Road (which i live beside before anyone gets defensive). As bad as an ISOLATED incident and worse.

and the general Milford area badly littered with cans and broken glass and cautions in recent years, off the top of my head

I was out with the clean-up crews on a number of days over several RAG weeks and we found that the rubbish we were finding was not just from students dropping a few cans, but also from other weeks, some even semesters, some clearly coming from non-students (nappies, foreign language newspapers from eastern europe, foreign cigarette packs, household bills, etc).

constantg

In relation to other colleges (TCD and their series of balls, NUIG/GMIT RAG weeks, LIT which takes place off campus and other institutions), UL has always had the most fun, the safest, the least troublesome and the best craic from College/RAG/Charity weeks.

Sid_Justice

constantg wrote: »

In relation to other colleges (TCD and their series of balls, NUIG/GMIT RAG weeks, LIT which takes place off campus and other institutions), UL has always had the most fun, the safest, the least troublesome and the best craic from College/RAG/Charity weeks.

Really? Biased a bit? Have you been to all the balls? Have you surveyed local populations / police to gauge their opinion on the respective college balls?

TCD's RAG week is crap. But the Trinity Ball is head and shoulders above all other college balls in this country.

UCD rag week is also crap, never been to the ball though, it looked hideous though.

So basically, don't spout rubbish please thank you very much.

freyners

Sid_Justice wrote: »

Really? Biased a bit? Have you been to all the balls? Have you surveyed local populations / police to gauge their opinion on the respective college balls?

TCD's RAG week is crap. But the Trinity Ball is head and shoulders above all other college balls in this country.

UCD rag week is also crap, never been to the ball though, it looked hideous though.

So basically, don't spout rubbish please thank you very much.

pretty sure he meant to confine that to rag weeks only...UL ..for its pluses..doesnt really do a ball

Cossax

constantg wrote: »

NOT having 50 students arrested on the first day of RAG week.
NOT having the guards have to pull students from the river cos they thoguht it would be a good idea to build a raft and go paddling around, locked off their t*ts.




ONE CAR, SINGULAR. I only remember one picture. I was also on Exec when it happend, I was at the very frustrating meeting where we were clued in, so I know exactly why it was done and by extension, who was responsible. Had nothing to do with RAG week. Was a dispute between housemates that got out of hand.

Also the article which accompanied the picture in a local newspaper was GROSSLY misleading, especially its suggestion that a large number of UL students had been arrested during RAG week.




Mindless stupidity of one student. An isolated case. And it was a brick of some sort wasn't it?




This does happen unfortunately. But it happens everywhere, not just UL, Limerick or indeed the island of Ireland.




I'll give you that one. The bus driver's response? To let the troublemakers off the bus. Not to pull up at Henry St Garda station and ask them to investigate. Bus Eireann cancelled services late on 'student drinking nights', with very little warning as far as i know.

Also have you ever been on a bus passing through or near O'Malley Park/Southill/St. Mary's Park/Moyross/the Hyde Road (which i live beside before anyone gets defensive). As bad as an ISOLATED incident and worse.




I was out with the clean-up crews on a number of days over several RAG weeks and we found that the rubbish we were finding was not just from students dropping a few cans, but also from other weeks, some even semesters, some clearly coming from non-students (nappies, foreign language newspapers from eastern europe, foreign cigarette packs, household bills, etc).

Plenty of excuse making there.
All the stuff that just happened to happen/frequency of it happening sky-rocketing during Rag Week.
It's a nightmare time to be a local.

constantg

Cossax wrote: »

Plenty of excuse making there.
All the stuff that just happened to happen/frequency of it happening sky-rocketing during Rag Week.
It's a nightmare time to be a local.

It's not 'excuse making' to point out how your argument was flawed. You're entitled to your own opinion, even if it is flawed.


Any time is a nightmare to be a local. I used be a local (moved into city 15 months ago thank god). I moved to get away from the locals. SOME students were a little immature. SOME locals weren't much better.


One local collected rubbish, allegedly dropped by students, and dumped it outside ULSU front door. He invalidated his own littering arguments by littering himself....

Social Housing neighbours children REPEATEDLY tried to break into my houses in Milford Grange and Elm Park when I was living there as a local. They succeeded in Briarfield. The Regional Support Unit raided a house in the Cedars 5 doors down from me when I was living there. I have rarely been responded to by a local after saying 'hello' or good evening' on the street, or in an estate.

constantg

Really? Biased a bit?

you're right, I've only been a student in two of the institutions.

Have you surveyed local populations / police to gauge their opinion on the respective college balls?

I read the newspapers in Galway, Cork, Limerick and Dublin. Did you do any of the things you're asking yourself?

But the Trinity Ball is head and shoulders above all other college balls in this country.

It's an orgy of drinking and sex.... now while there's nothing wrong with a little orgy ( ) I can at least call a spade a spade. I have this info from cousins who went to Trinity and friends. I only ever use the place for research and talks.

So basically, don't spout rubbish please thank you very much.

didn't realise I was....

bazkennedy

Just a few points:

One car was over turn. Singular. Yes, students were arrested at the time but the number of students arrested was a lot less that the papers would have you believe. They included people in their figure that were not students but had been arrested over the same weekend.

From what i recall, the number of total arrests during ul's rag/charity week is considerly lower than in other insitutions and a lot lower that the daily arrest figures in nuig.

Since the move to "Charity Week", the efforts of the SU have helped to decrease anti social behaviour during rag week and i'm sure the gardai's figures can attest to that.

As has been pointed out, if UL pulls the plug on rag week then the local businesses will just organise their own unofficial rag week which will be 10 times worse than the official one because there won't be events to keep people occupied, no MnMs, no daily litter clearing. And that's assuming we get lucky and the local pubs/clubs pick the same week instead of having it spread out throughout a few week (rag month?). And no charity will benefit!

seen2Bgreen

Constantg your post indicates that you know nothing of the reality of last year's charity week. The only good thing to come out of it was that MnMs were visible around the place in fairness did a very good job in picking up other students' litter. It doesn't matter a ****e if the overturned car was connected with Charity Week or not. It was caused by students during Charity Week. I lived near where that happened and the locals were rightly pissed off. If you want to apply your "it happens everywhere" theory, then that's just a deflection of responsibility. Rag Week, Charity Week whatever way you want to tart it up is hell for residents. Broken glass everywhere (think of kids playing on paths and roads, residents and students having to drive over glass), wrecklessness, theft of garden furniture (elderly lady had flower pots stolen and garden destroyed), wing mirrors of cars smashed, litter everywhere, drunken behaviour, noise, cars parked across footpaths, street signage robbed... the list goes on.

Wake up man.

freyners

seen2Bgreen wrote: »

Constantg your post indicates that you know nothing of the reality of last year's charity week. The only good thing to come out of it was that MnMs were visible around the place in fairness did a very good job in picking up other students' litter. It doesn't matter a ****e if the overturned car was connected with Charity Week or not. It was caused by students during Charity Week. I lived near where that happened and the locals were rightly pissed off. If you want to apply your "it happens everywhere" theory, then that's just a deflection of responsibility. Rag Week, Charity Week whatever way you want to tart it up is hell for residents. Broken glass everywhere (think of kids playing on paths and roads, residents and students having to drive over glass), wrecklessness, theft of garden furniture (elderly lady had flower pots stolen and garden destroyed), wing mirrors of cars smashed, litter everywhere, drunken behaviour, noise, cars parked across footpaths, street signage robbed... the list goes on.

Wake up man.

while im not going to dispute that post...locals are just as bad for the bit bolded as students...lived in elm park last year and the locals were terrible for it...one parked in our driveway (we had 3 cars and needed it) and refused to move it for a while...then decided to park it fully on the footpath once we insisted.

last year our neighbour came over and said she didnt mind us drinking and having a laugh round our house as long as we didnt leave bottles lying around and kept it quiet at night. Because she bothered to come straight to us instead of just ringing the garda without talking to us we had no problem with her the entire week. Bit of dialogue goes a long way

Students need to improve again this year..but overall..compared to many other colleges/unis we do very well

constantg

Constantg your post indicates that you know nothing of the reality of last year's charity week.

True, I wasn't out for much of RAG week last year. It got a little hairy in Milford on the last night, but it was an isolated incident if memory serves.

The only good thing to come out of it was that MnMs were visible around the place in fairness did a very good job in picking up other students' litter.

I'd say a large amount of money raised for charity, a decent series of social events and a largely trouble free week would also be positives.

It doesn't matter a ****e if the overturned car was connected with Charity Week or not.

It does in relation to this thread.


It was caused by students during Charity Week. I lived near where that happened and the locals were rightly pissed off. If you want to apply your "it happens everywhere" theory, then that's just a deflection of responsibility.

It's not a deflection of responsibility. I seem to remember locals cars being set on fire in Milford Grange a few (possibly lot; I'm old) years ago, by non-students. I'm sure the locals were 'rightly pissed off' then too.... Now if you'd care to make an issue of the behaviour of locals, then absolutely lets have a discussion.....

Broken glass everywhere (think of kids playing on paths and roads, residents and students having to drive over glass), wrecklessness, theft of garden furniture (elderly lady had flower pots stolen and garden destroyed), wing mirrors of cars smashed, litter everywhere, drunken behaviour, noise, cars parked across footpaths, street signage robbed... the list goes on.

So you're familiar with how a large portion of society (not just students) behave at events, concerts, St. Patricks Day etc???

Jester252

constantg wrote: »

I'd say a large amount of money raised for charity, a decent series of social events and a largely trouble free week would also be positives.

I just what to point out a problem that I have with the whole charity week thing
This is not a criticism of the student union
Last year around €11,000 euros was raised for charity. This, I think, was an improvement over the last couple of years but the university has over 11,500 student. That mean that all the student in the university contributed less the a euro each. Last year was an improvement but if the donations are like this is it worth it when fun runs have been known to raise the same amount of money.

I think we should get rid of charity week only if the student union can get us a deal like the one in NUIG

constantg

Jester252 wrote: »

I think we should get rid of charity week only if the student union can get us a deal like the one in NUIG

Best of luck to this years sabbats in that regard

J_E

Whether you get rid of it or not students will most likely identify some sort of week to do the same thing, and I'm not talking charity.