HRV Noise?

KG_SouthTipp

Hi All,

I am in my house for the last 6 weeks and all is great except for my HRV!

I am not happy with the level of noise from some of the vents. It’s mostly from the bigger rooms which are 36, 28 and 18 square metres in size.

It’s a Vortice unit and I have the company back to look at it and they have said the system is fully commissioned and working fine. I have been very happy with this company overall (they did my HP and plumbing).

I have nothing to compare the noise levels with so I was just wondering if anyone else has had similar issues? I hope to have my architect out this week and hopefully he will be able to tell me if the noise levels are within the expected range.

Thanks a lot,

KG

BryanF

KG_SouthTipp wrote: »

Hi All,

I am in my house for the last 6 weeks and all is great except for my HRV!

I am not happy with the level of noise from some of the vents. It’s mostly from the bigger rooms which are 36, 28 and 18 square metres in size.

It’s a Vortice unit and I have the company back to look at it and they have said the system is fully commissioned and working fine. I have been very happy with this company overall (they did my HP and plumbing).

I have nothing to compare the noise levels with so I was just wondering if anyone else has had similar issues? I hope to have my architect out this week and hopefully he will be able to tell me if the noise levels are within the expected range.

Thanks a lot,

KG

have they the dampers located correctly? actually can you more specific about where the noise is from??

KG_SouthTipp

The noise is coming from the vents, its not a rattle I just think there is too much air flow coming from the vents. If you put a candle to the vent in the kitchen it would be blown out. I thought you should barely know if the unit is on?

BryanF

KG_SouthTipp wrote: »

The noise is coming from the vents, its not a rattle I just think there is too much air flow coming from the vents. If you put a candle to the vent in the kitchen it would be blown out. I thought you should barely know if the unit is on?

now this is just a suggestion, as i dont think most archs will have a clue, why not get one of the competitors of your MVHR crowd in (maybe one of the certified Passive guys) to inspect the system/commissioning, pay them a few quid for the visit, and get them to do a brief report/summation.. you could then get your arch to beat it over the heads of the installers ..
from my undertanding there are several things that could address this, ranging from a vent cover cowl (cant think of correct term) that sends the air across the ceiling to the obvious turning down the rate of ventilation. I wonder is the system a little unbalanced or even on overdrive? as i said, we'll be guessing all day. id get someone in..

KG_SouthTipp

Thanks Bryan,

I will try and get someone in as I cannot live with this noise

joanene

Hi,

We also have the Vortice system installed in our house. It is only a few weeks up and running but I was very surprised (and annoyed) to discover how noisy it was.
But the noise was coming from the unit...not the vents!
The supplier has been back and has adjusted the speed of the motor which has reduced noise level.

We are just not sure if the system is working right at all.

Can I ask you....how long does it take for the steam to clear in your bathrooms after having a shower?

It is taking an hour or more for ours to clear. Surely this is not right? And I know its not good to open windows when you have HRV.

KG_SouthTipp

Hi,

Firstly to answer your question I do not have any problem with extracting the steam from the bathroom (ensuite) its pretty much instant. It could be that the extraction speed is way too low on your unit? I am getting a damper fitting to the kitchen supply vent which will reduce the noise. I also noticed that the CO2 reading was off the charts so I think this was the main reason for my unit ramping up to boost mode and therefore the excess noise was due to this............I hope!

Another piece of advice I was given by my renewable energy company was to put your hand up to the supply vents and you will know if the system is balanced as you should barely be able to feel the air flow. At the moment my supply vent would blow out a candle instantly.

Curious Geroge

I know this thread is old but hoping for some feedback on how OP got on. I installed the zehnder comfoair 550; After it was installed and commionsied, we moved in and found the noise level too much at night (normally set to normal which is setting 2 but having to turn it to low each night). The noise is coming from the supplies. Any recommendations ?

fclauson

George

have you had the system balanced (i.e. professional measured at each outlet) ?

noise is typically speed & a closed down vent - so opening the vent in the bedrooms may help - but you need to the system balanced to ensure you set up the right flows

What volume is your house ?

Who did the calcs for the system size (we ended up with 2 Zehender' because of building volume) - I did not want the unit running at 80% normally due to noise

The 1,2,3 speed should be set on the control panel to reflect the building demand based on the vents being balanced

Are you doors under cut (i.e. can air get out of the bedrooms into the hall on on to the wet rooms and out )- typical undercut of 10mm

fclauson

One other thing - we put 1M of flexi acoustic duct



just prior to each outlet vent to absorb the noise in an "S" shape

yes it reduces air flow but it also captures noise

Curious Geroge

fclauson wrote: »

George

have you had the system balanced (i.e. professional measured at each outlet) ?

noise is typically speed & a closed down vent - so opening the vent in the bedrooms may help - but you need to the system balanced to ensure you set up the right flows

What volume is your house ?

Who did the calcs for the system size (we ended up with 2 Zehender' because of building volume) - I did not want the unit running at 80% normally due to noise

The 1,2,3 speed should be set on the control panel to reflect the building demand based on the vents being balanced

Are you doors under cut (i.e. can air get out of the bedrooms into the hall on on to the wet rooms and out )- typical undercut of 10mm

Hi fclauson; the system was commissioned and balanced the week we moved in. The lads seemed to know there job very well as the guts of 4 hours was spent up and down the stairs and checking bathrooms after showers etc. The day to day light is fine, its just the night time that the sound iterates us.

The same insulation was used in ours but it’s used from the HRV unit to the manifolds. The manifold to each room is a straight run. I should note that the noise is not the sound of the unit, but the sound of the air travelling. I was doubtful of the supplies initially (image attached) as the supply and the extract were the same ceiling vents but the fitter, supplier and the guys that commissioned the unit have all said these are ok and there are different kinds.

rolion

Curious Geroge wrote: »

Hi fclauson; the system was commissioned and balanced the week we moved in. The lads seemed to know there job very well as the guts of 4 hours was spent up and down the stairs and checking bathrooms after showers etc. The day to day light is fine, its just the night time that the sound iterates us.

The same insulation was used in ours but it’s used from the HRV unit to the manifolds. The manifold to each room is a straight run. I should note that the noise is not the sound of the unit, but the sound of the air travelling. I was doubtful of the supplies initially (image attached) as the supply and the extract were the same ceiling vents but the fitter, supplier and the guys that commissioned the unit have all said these are ok and there are different kinds.

Not sure who's right or wrong but on my plans I need to use two valves,one for air blowed in the room and second for air extraction from room.
Both valves have adjustment for air flow.
Both of them located apart.I'm installing "air in" on top of doors entrance and "air out" located near top of radiator (s).
Also,I'm designing the pipes with 150mm round and 200 square to allow decent flow and less noise.
Central unit is Viessmann Vitovent 300...on the way.
Regards

ArnieSilvia

I had an issue like op and I called the installer again, turned out that it was in constant boost mode, this resolved airflow noise (too much volume).
Later I dropped the fan speed to reduce the fan noise but we were getting condensation on the windows and fans were still noisy. I raised the fan speed but this time gave it a bit of tweaking to find the sweet spot when fans were quietest yet delivering enough airflow.
Also the in/ex fan speeds aren't the same because if they were, you would hear the fans trying to work on same frequency driving me nuts! This is also important if you need to open the windows in the summer as house is too warm (25 degrees here now) because intake is on the south side of roof and house is BER A2. Summer bypass is a joke BTW. I dialled the extract fan faster so it's easier for air from outside to come in.
I turned off boost mode, waste of time and causing noise at night whenever somebody passed beside sensor or used toilet.

After all these adjustments house is livable now and HRV noise is not noticeable. It also exposed how all this commissioning is a total BS and that people who should know their business install incomplete systems. One of my biggest problems is heat. Summer bypass should be a system of flaps bypassing the HRV completely, with intake on coldest side of house, not how it's done in my system.

fclauson

ArnieSilvia wrote: »

I had an issue like op and I called the installer again, turned out that it was in constant boost mode, this resolved airflow noise (too much volume).
Later I dropped the fan speed to reduce the fan noise but we were getting condensation on the windows and fans were still noisy. I raised the fan speed but this time gave it a bit of tweaking to find the sweet spot when fans were quietest yet delivering enough airflow.
Also the in/ex fan speeds aren't the same because if they were, you would hear the fans trying to work on same frequency driving me nuts! This is also important if you need to open the windows in the summer as house is too warm (25 degrees here now) because intake is on the south side of roof and house is BER A2. Summer bypass is a joke BTW. I dialled the extract fan faster so it's easier for air from outside to come in.
I turned off boost mode, waste of time and causing noise at night whenever somebody passed beside sensor or used toilet.

After all these adjustments house is livable now and HRV noise is not noticeable. It also exposed how all this commissioning is a total BS and that people who should know their business install incomplete systems. One of my biggest problems is heat. Summer bypass should be a system of flaps bypassing the HRV completely, with intake on coldest side of house, not how it's done in my system.

Do the maths and read Part F to set the right speeds - you cannot just "tweek" - condensation happens on the windows but it also happens behind cupboards and at your thermal bridges - (i.e. hidden)

On the boost I again would suggest do not disable - we have a boost switch at the bathroom door hence the rule is click on the way in click on the way out -no need to boost at 3am when going to the loo !! hence sensor is not the best method .

Summer bypass should bypass the Heat exchanger - - if you house is overheating then you should look to window shades and not blame the HRV

#PassiveHouse !!

fclauson

rolion wrote: »

Not sure who's right or wrong but on my plans I need to use two valves,one for air blowed in the room and second for air extraction from room.
Both valves have adjustment for air flow.
Both of them located apart.I'm installing "air in" on top of doors entrance and "air out" located near top of radiator (s).
Also,I'm designing the pipes with 150mm round and 200 square to allow decent flow and less noise.
Central unit is Viessmann Vitovent 300...on the way.
Regards

Wrong - HRV should not be built like that - you need to supply to the bedrooms/living spaces and extract from the kitchen/wetrooms/laundry

Otherwise you will get cycling within rooms and not get proper extraction where you need it

fclauson

Curious Geroge wrote: »

Hi fclauson; the system was commissioned and balanced the week we moved in. The lads seemed to know there job very well as the guts of 4 hours was spent up and down the stairs and checking bathrooms after showers etc. The day to day light is fine, its just the night time that the sound iterates us.

The same insulation was used in ours but it’s used from the HRV unit to the manifolds. The manifold to each room is a straight run. I should note that the noise is not the sound of the unit, but the sound of the air travelling. I was doubtful of the supplies initially (image attached) as the supply and the extract were the same ceiling vents but the fitter, supplier and the guys that commissioned the unit have all said these are ok and there are different kinds.

George
as you say noise is air moving - you could look to put some accoustic duct at the rooms as well this will dampen the noise of the air in the runs
what size ducts did you use - I personally do not rate the all plastic central manifold systems and hence use 8in->6in->4in spiral would - will be a pig to clean in 10 years but we will face that when we get there

rolion

fclauson wrote: »

Wrong - HRV should not be built like that - you need to supply to the bedrooms/living spaces and extract from the kitchen/wetrooms/laundry

Otherwise you will get cycling within rooms and not get proper extraction where you need it

Interesting. ..Thanks for explanation.

So then...I'm creating an air tight house in relation to outside only !? Blocking air exchange to travel inside to / from outside?

Air extracted from kitchen downstairs is "heated" and then "blowed" in the living room.
How is the air freshed in the kitchen then,if I close internal doors that are draught materials fitted?
Thanks....

fclauson

ok - here comes some education

HRV works as follows - air from the outside flows into the unit and passes through a heat exchanger and then on into the livings space - bedrooms, hall, sittings rooms etc

in the wet rooms, laundry and kitchen air is extracted - passed through the heat exchanger (giving up its heat to that incoming air) and then pushed out side

Typically ALL of the air in a house will be changed about once every 2 hrs or so (depending on a number of factors)

An airtight house is just that - no drafts can get in (or spiders !!) - but to achieve a healthy inside the air must be regularly replaced

Boosting during more damp times such as showers and cooking increases the exchange rate to draw out the damp air before it can condense onto a cold surface.

The reason why its important to boost is that damp air condense on the coldest surface - e.g. glazing or more worryingly any thermal bridges

Hope that helps

fclauson

Sorry - should have said having an extract and supply in the same room is wrong because you get no "flow" of air across the house ensuing proper and full damp air removal

893bet

fclauson wrote: »

Sorry - should have said having an extract and supply in the same room is wrong because you get no "flow" of air across the house ensuing proper and full damp air removal

Even large 8x5 rooms? Kitchen/living room?

fclauson

893bet wrote: »

Even large 8x5 rooms? Kitchen/living room?

Rooms which are behaving like 2 rooms should be treated as such - we have a kitchen/sitting room and we have a supply as far as possible away from the kitchen and then extract in the kitchen space

Think about grease in your kitchen and what you will do with your extractor/recirculator

Just because you have supply and extract in the same space does not mean they will equal each other - we have a greater extract than supply thus forcing air from other parts of the house to be part of the kitchen extract

hexosan

My open plan kitchen/living/dining area is approx 80m2 in it ive one extract and two inlets due to the shape of the rooms.

fclauson

Ours is 60 something sqM and we have two in and two out (one over the sink and one near the overs & steam oven)

the cooker is a recirculating one

Curious Geroge

fclauson wrote: »

George
as you say noise is air moving - you could look to put some accoustic duct at the rooms as well this will dampen the noise of the air in the runs
what size ducts did you use - I personally do not rate the all plastic central manifold systems and hence use 8in->6in->4in spiral would - will be a pig to clean in 10 years but we will face that when we get there

The manifold and the supply/extract are metal and the duct runs between are done using the 75mm blue/white ducts. 2 ducts to each supply and extract. Adding some accoustic duct seems impossible since we're in a finished house.

fclauson

Curious Geroge wrote: »

....Adding some accoustic duct seems impossible since we're in a finished house.

I know the feeling

ht9zni1gs28crp

Could be worse, you could have a brand new to market unit and the instructions only available in German! Took me a while to figure the Summer Bypass setting out!

Curious Geroge

miller_63 wrote: »

Could be worse, you could have a brand new to market unit and the instructions only available in German! Took me a while to figure the Summer Bypass setting out!

I bet its silent though !!

ht9zni1gs28crp

Curious Geroge wrote: »

I bet its silent though !!

Very very slight audible 'hish' of air , you can hear it when its on max 'hurricane' setting as I call it...

Setting one is working fine for now on summer bypass mode...

rolion

For the her units owners....is there a chance of adapting the fans using a "light dimmer" to the speed control of the fans or electronics inside it may create troubles ?
Can the fans be isolated ?

fclauson

rolion wrote: »

For the her units owners....is there a chance of adapting the fans using a "light dimmer" to the speed control of the fans or electronics inside it may create troubles ?
Can the fans be isolated ?

What are trying to achieve - most units come with a range of controls to make them operate correctly - speeds etc - some even come with humidity sensors

Curious Geroge

Anyone with the zehnder comfoair know if the 3 speed switch could be connected to a timer switch; having speed 2 by default and switching back to speed 1 at night ? (little annoyed that this has to be done but looking for a workaround).

fclauson

George see my PM