Go safe vans and speed limits

Bodhan

Over the last few weeks I've been testing car speedo's against the speed read out of a range of sat navs and I've found that most of them are out anything up to +/- 5kmh

My question is how much over the limit do you have to be going to get a speeding ticket from one of these vans?
Say you are doing 85kph in an 80kph zone, would you still get a ticket?

savagecabbages

Not to be a smartass, but if you are travelling over the limit you are speeding. Meaning you are breaking the law and can be caught, regardless of by how much. I don't know what the general policy regarding by how much is.

I know of one day in France where ANPR cameras were put atop two motorway bridges and timing every car between the two points, 20,000 tickets issued in one day by the one speed trap, with a zero tolerance policy! Not sure if it was police operated or a private company...

Keith186

I think in the UK its 10% of the limit +2mph but I don't know if they do it here.

If they did they should probably keep the info private.

Mint Sauce

More than likely it could be your speedo thats +5km. In terms of the go save vans, I dont think they give an allowance at all. If your over, your over.

smokin ace

a little bit off topic a bit but how long do it take for a ticket to be sent out form one of them vans because 9 days ago i passed one and i am 100% sure i was over the limit

Bodhan

savagecabbages wrote: »

Not to be a smartass, but if you are travelling over the limit you are speeding. Meaning you are breaking the law and can be caught, regardless of by how much. I don't know what the general policy regarding by how much is.

I know of one day in France where ANPR cameras were put atop two motorway bridges and timing every car between the two points, 20,000 tickets issued in one day by the one speed trap, with a zero tolerance policy! Not sure if it was police operated or a private company...

If what my sat nav's have said are right, there is a chance that you're travelling over the speed limit without knowing it. There would have to be a margin for error, even in the machinery they use in the van.

savagecabbages

Guess the answer to that one comes down to the mood of the judge on the day if you appealed it;)

I'd imagine the margin for error on the vans is very very small prob way less than 1%...

Chimaera

Usually, speedometers are programmed to read higher than actual speed. This is because construction and use regulations in the EU make it illegal for a speedo to read less than your actual speed, as this could lead to a situation where you could be done for speeding without knowing it.

Regarding the satnav calibration: check the specification of the satnav regarding accuracy. Depending on how good the satnav is, it could be several km/h off. My Garmin is accurate to +-1.8km/h, my phone (HTC Desire) has been up to 20km/h off. Basically, I wouldn't rely on phone GPS to be a reliable benchmark.

If you have a good GPS and the speedo is reading below actual, then you've a problem with your speedo.

On the vans, I believe they have a very small (if any) tolerance on the limit. Whatever people say, they're operated by a business and businesses exist to make money so they're going to operate in a fashion that allows them to make more of it.

jimmycrackcorm

Chimaera wrote: »

On the vans, I believe they have a very small (if any) tolerance on the limit. Whatever people say, they're operated by a business and businesses exist to make money so they're going to operate in a fashion that allows them to make more of it.

Go Safe gets paid the same amount regardless of the number of speeding tickets issued.

johnos1984

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

Go Safe gets paid the same amount regardless of the number of speeding tickets issued.

Add to that all fines have to be approved by a Garda so I believe there is a reasonable margin allowed.

The camera will snap you but it doesn't mean you'll get a ticket

Fishtits

Sat Navs are not accurate unless your travelling on a road thats totally parallel with sea level. Show me a road in Ireland over 5Km long that qualifies...

Can we finally put this myth to bed?

PARKHEAD67

savagecabbages wrote: »

Not to be a smartass, but if you are travelling over the limit you are speeding. Meaning you are breaking the law and can be caught, regardless of by how much. I don't know what the general policy regarding by how much is.

I know of one day in France where ANPR cameras were put atop two motorway bridges and timing every car between the two points, 20,000 tickets issued in one day by the one speed trap, with a zero tolerance policy! Not sure if it was police operated or a private company...

How many lives were saved in France that day? Coz thats what its all about here in Ireland.Safety. Nothing to do with revenue for our gangster governed country;).

AugustusMinimus

Fishtits wrote: »

Sat Navs are not accurate unless your travelling on a road thats totally parallel with sea level. Show me a road in Ireland over 5Km long that qualifies...

Can we finally put this myth to bed?

Just how steep a gradient do you think there is on Irish roads.

A 10 degree gradient will give a sat nav reading which is 98.5% the same as on flat.

A 20 degree gradient will give a sat nav reading which is 94% the same as on flat.

20 degrees is steep.

TestTransmission

Had the car dyno'd there last month, when the car was showing 108kph on the speedo it was in fact only doin 100kph according to the dyno.

Joe10000

We've had this before and I think the general consensus was that your speedo. will always over estimate your speed by approximately 5mph.

cormie

Chimaera, was that 20km off reading on your phone being used with 3g (google maps for example) or a standalone map app (such as copilot) which operates only with the built in GPS and doesn't rely on phone connection?

Two queries myself:

1 - If you believe you were over and don't hear anything within 6 months, is it the same as a Garda issued notice in which they only have 6 months to issue a conviction, after which time you can't be charged with the offence?

2 - I know these vans are operated by humans, does this mean that somebody has to be paying attention in order to catch people breaking the speed limit, so say the operator was in the back of the van and went to the cab to have a look in his bag to find a few pecan nuts, would all passing traffic over the limit be safe in these 2 minutes?

Chimaera

This was using Speedview on Android. It's usually much better than that, but it shows the limitations of phone GPS IMO.

Not sure about 1, but like any offence there's probably a statute of limitations.

On point 2, I'm pretty sure the actual speed monitoring equipment is automatic, not requiring any human intervention to measure and record someone's speed and issue the penalty. The human is just there to put it in place and switch it on.

Our man in Havana

Add to that all fines have to be approved by a Garda so I believe there is a reasonable margin allowed.

Have you got any evidence to support your assertion?

opinion guy

Does anyone know if the go safe vans check the speed of vehicles travelling towards them or away from them or both ? Do they check their side of the road, the opposite side of the road or both ?

I passed one today on the Navan road Dublin I was on the opposite side of the road there was one car behind me and on on the opposite side of the road. Anyhow there was a flash - I looked at my speedo and it said 54kph - its a fifty zone.

so was this likely flashing at me or the guy going the other way ? should I expect a bill and some points ?

robbie_998

opinion guy wrote: »

Does anyone know if the go safe vans check the speed of vehicles travelling towards them or away from them or both ? Do they check their side of the road, the opposite side of the road or both ?

I passed one today on the Navan road Dublin I was on the opposite side of the road there was one car behind me and on on the opposite side of the road. Anyhow there was a flash - I looked at my speedo and it said 54kph - its a fifty zone.

so was this likely flashing at me or the guy going the other way ? should I expect a bill and some points ?

the vans can do both ways but this is a close one.

54 giving the 10% inaccuracy too ... and if the van was even watching yourself or if the car on the other side blocked you out for a part of it that it might not have being able to see you.



to me it looks like you just have to sit and wait sadly.

cormie

Anyone any idea on my questions above?

1 - If you believe you were over and don't hear anything within 6 months, is it the same as a Garda issued notice in which they only have 6 months to issue a conviction, after which time you can't be charged with the offence?

2 - I know these vans are operated by humans, does this mean that somebody has to be paying attention in order to catch people breaking the speed limit, so say the operator was in the back of the van and went to the cab to have a look in his bag to find a few pecan nuts, would all passing traffic over the limit be safe in these 2 minutes?

heffomike54

If its any help, I spoke to one of the guys in the go safe vans & he told me there was a small percentage over the speed limit which they don't issue tickets for but he would not tell me what it was. The guy was fairly sound too,didn't mind me asking about the vans and stuff.

By the by, on that occasion, the van was parked up on really bad country road in north Dublin, which was good to see, unlike the Garda one, which is still hanging around the Islandbridge area.

Jimdagym

heffomike54 wrote: »

If its any help, I spoke to one of the guys in the go safe vans & he told me there was a small percentage over the speed limit which they don't issue tickets for but he would not tell me what it was. The guy was fairly sound too,didn't mind me asking about the vans and stuff.

By the by, on that occasion, the van was parked up on really bad country road in north Dublin, which was good to see, unlike the Garda one, which is still hanging around the Islandbridge area.

He wouldn't neccesarily know. He just operates the machinery, perhaps someone else processes all the data?

Joe10000

cormie wrote: »

Anyone any idea on my questions above?

I have been caught twice by the go safe vans and both times the ticket/fine arrived within two weeks of the "offence".

The camera is automatic and does not need an operator once setup.

Cookie_Monster

Fishtits wrote: »

Sat Navs are not accurate unless your travelling on a road thats totally parallel with sea level. Show me a road in Ireland over 5Km long that qualifies...

Can we finally put this myth to bed?

My bike GPS gives gradient and height and so can adjust for your angle of climb etc to compensate. I see no reason why satnavs can't do the same. You only need 4 satellites instead of the minimum 3.

mfceiling

Parked in Harold's cross at 6.30 this morning on that notoriously dangerous stretch of road from kimmage...fish in a barrel?

cormie

Joe10000 wrote: »

I have been caught twice by the go safe vans and both times the ticket/fine arrived within two weeks of the "offence".

The camera is automatic and does not need an operator once setup.

Thanks for that, didn't think they were automatic, I though the garda in the back of the van was in control of it in some way. I wonder once, it goes past 6 months, can you assume there won't be a ticket?

corktina

AugustusMinimus wrote: »

Just how steep a gradient do you think there is on Irish roads.

A 10 degree gradient will give a sat nav reading which is 98.5% the same as on flat.

A 20 degree gradient will give a sat nav reading which is 94% the same as on flat.

20 degrees is steep.

even with my basic knowledge of triganometry, id say your figures are suspect. The base of the "triangle" between two readings taken by the sat nav will be fractions of a mm and the long axis to the satellite will be measured in 100s of KMs meaning the angles at both ground points are minute to the point of being neglible,giving almost total accuracy whether the road be flat or inclined.

Joe10000

cormie wrote: »

Thanks for that, didn't think they were automatic, I though the garda in the back of the van was in control of it in some way. I wonder once, it goes past 6 months, can you assume there won't be a ticket?

There is no Garda in the back and yes I would think you are in the clear.

teednab-el

smokin ace wrote: »

a little bit off topic a bit but how long do it take for a ticket to be sent out form one of them vans because 9 days ago i passed one and i am 100% sure i was over the limit

Got mine sent out 3 working days after I got caught.

cyclopath2001

mfceiling wrote: »

Parked in Harold's cross at 6.30 this morning on that notoriously dangerous stretch of road from kimmage...fish in a barrel?

Many serious accidents happen in the early hours, and we know that the highest rate of non compliance is in urban areas.

Seems like an appropriate location.

opinion guy

corktina wrote: »

even with my basic knowledge of triganometry, id say your figures are suspect. The base of the "triangle" between two readings taken by the sat nav will be fractions of a mm and the long axis to the satellite will be measured in 100s of KMs meaning the angles at both ground points are minute to the point of being neglible,giving almost total accuracy whether the road be flat or inclined.

GPS is only accurate to a couple of metres in terms of longitude and latitude - when you have the best satellite signal. For altitude its even less accurate - say to about 20m or so when you have the best signal. Also the questino of how often your gps unit reads a signal and calculates a position would have an influence on speed calculations and resulting from that the question of whether you are going in a straight line or turning a corner has an influence on accuracy. I actually thought his figures were generous.

corktina

but does GPS not measure your position several times per second? (several dozen times perhaps? ) that would reduce any inaccuracy to virtually zero. The only real inaccuracy would be in any time lag in updating your display.

opinion guy

corktina wrote: »

but does GPS not measure your position several times per second? (several dozen times perhaps? ) that would reduce any inaccuracy to virtually zero. The only real inaccuracy would be in any time lag in updating your display.

I don't know what the refresh rate is, but you don't understand inaccuracy/precision. Even if it measures lots of times a second, the fact that the reading is only accurate to say 2 m horizontally or 20m vertically does not mean it gives you the same wrong reading each time it measures. It means it gives you slightly different readings every measurement but 95% of the time its within 2m or 20m - so each reading will vary by x% even if you don't move anywhere.

Paparazzo

I don't think a speedo giving a bad reading would be a valid excuse. More likely youd get the speeding fine, and get another fine for having a broken speedo.

Henry Ford III

Joe10000 wrote: »

We've had this before and I think the general consensus was that your speedo. will always over estimate your speed by approximately 5mph.

Never trust general consensi.

Shirley it's more likely to be a % error as opposed to a fixed mph one?

Gophur

Fishtits wrote: »

Sat Navs are not accurate unless your travelling on a road thats totally parallel with sea level. Show me a road in Ireland over 5Km long that qualifies...

Can we finally put this myth to bed?

Where did you pull this nugget from?

mfceiling

cyclopath2001 wrote: »

Many serious accidents happen in the early hours, and we know that the highest rate of non compliance is in urban areas.

Seems like an appropriate location.

Have you driven that road?
Difficult to get any speed on it and I'm living in the area a long while and there's never been one fatality on that stretch...but they're not set up to raise revenue only placed where people have died or been seriously injured before!!

cyclopath2001

mfceiling wrote: »

Have you driven that road?
Difficult to get any speed on it and I'm living in the area a long while and there's never been one fatality on that stretch...but they're not set up to raise revenue only placed where people have died or been seriously injured before!!

Yes, and I'm never surprised where some drivers will break speed limits, especially if they think they won't be caught.

The best place for a speed trap is where people break speed limits.

pjjm

How long does it take for a fine to be posted out from a Go Safe Van??

cormie

I believe they have up to 6 months to process and send the fine. I'm not sure if it's void after this period?

Our man in Havana

4 months. Anything else is self righteous bullshj!t.

MugMugs

cormie wrote: »

I believe they have up to 6 months to process and send the fine. I'm not sure if it's void after this period?

They've 6 months to summon you.

Our man in Havana

Rubbish. They have 6 months from the alleged offence date.

MugMugs

Our man in Havana wrote: »

Rubbish. They have 6 months from the alleged offence date.

That's what was said, how's it rubbish?

Our man in Havana

The alter rail gnawing people would say otherwise.

pa990

tickets are posted out within a few days
you them have a total of 56 days to pay the fine.
If the ticket isnt paid then a summons must be applied for within 6 months of the date of the offence.

a general rule of thumb would be 3weeks max for the ticket to be posted out

cormie

Is there any legislation to back up the 6 month thing?

Can anyone clarify, say for example if you feel you may have been caught and don't hear anything within 6 months, does that mean you'll never hear anything as it's passed the time period in which they can pursue you for the offence?

Our man in Havana

Petty sessions Ireland act 1882.

piston

If these "GO SAFE" vans are so good for road safety, how come one of them nearly collided with me when he left hooked me while I was cycling?The least they could do is obey the rules of the road THEMSELVES :mad:

opinion guy

If these "GO SAFE" vans are so good for road safety, how come they are in safe stretches of wide road with low speed limits that have recently been lowered ?????

These things are about making money - nothing else.