Wales Sore losers??

korec

As a rugby fan, I have always had the utmost respect for Welsh rugby and the way they have played and behaved themselves with relation to all aspects of the game. However the last 24 hours have really tainted that view of them in my opinion. The level of abuse circulating the media and the web directed towards Allain Rolland is totally unwarranted. The facebook pages, youtube videos etc only highlight how undignified they are. They should take it on the chin and instead of hurling vilification at the referee look at their own ineptitude during the match i.e Sam Warburton's tackle, missed kicks, lineout, scrum. Even Warren Gatlands reaction was quite astonishing along with some other supposedly knowledgeable media pundits. Definitely a case of sour grapes in my opinion

scudzilla

You're going to get that with any high profile match, look at the abuse Terry Henry got a few years ago.

So please don't tar us Welsh all with the same brush, every country has it's minority of idiots

Great first post btw :rolleyes::rolleyes:

GerM

Every country has a large number of bad losers and Ireland is no different. There was no losing scenario more embarrassing than the Irish reaction to the France WC qualifier game a couple of years ago.

steve9859

You seriously think it would be different here if Ireland had been in Wales' position?

Fishooks12

GerM wrote: »

Every country has a large number of bad losers and Ireland is no different. There was no losing scenario more embarrassing than the Irish reaction to the France WC qualifier game a couple of years ago.

We had a lot more to complain about there though!:D

korec

I'd like to think we'd be more dignified. Unlike the Thierry Henry incident, technically the referee made the correct call this time. And also it wasn't the defining moment in the match, Wales had their opportunity excluding that incident. And I definitely know Declan Kidney wouldn't have come out and said the referee "ruined" the match.

jonniebgood1

They are sore losers. The sending off was debatable but the kicks they missed are straight facts. If they kicked them they would have won. Gatland is a good coach but a mouthpiece. unfortunately this type of post match hysteria brings the game into disrepute in a soccer-esque type fashion.

GerM

korec wrote: »

I'd like to think we'd be more dignified. Unlike the Thierry Henry incident, technically the referee made the correct call this time. And also it wasn't the defining moment in the match, Wales had their opportunity excluding that incident. And I definitely know Declan Kidney wouldn't have come out and said the referee "ruined" the match.

Gatland isn't Welsh and we'd have been just as bad. We love a whinge as much as anyone. We thrive on bitterness and being hard done by in sports.

twinytwo

GerM wrote: »

Every country has a large number of bad losers and Ireland is no different. There was no losing scenario more embarrassing than the Irish reaction to the France WC qualifier game a couple of years ago.

Your joking right?.. you cant compare the wales game, to what happened during the ireland/france game... there is a massive between getting outplayed and getting robbed.

twinytwo

steve9859 wrote: »

You seriously think it would be different here if Ireland had been in Wales' position?

We wouldnt have been cause Rog would have made his kicks;)

Fishooks12

GerM wrote: »

Gatland isn't Welsh and we'd have been just as bad. We love a whinge as much as anyone. We thrive on bitterness and being hard done by in sports.

we didn't exactly make too much out of the fact that Wales robbed us in the 6 nations

infact most of the press focused on how poor we were in that game

GerM

twinytwo wrote: »

Your joking right?.. you cant compare the wales game, to what happened during the ireland/france game... there is a massive between getting outplayed and getting robbed.

I'm comparing the reactions. Ours was pathetic and worse than what Wales are doing now. Our national association requested that the game be replayed. It was embarrassing. You take it on the chin and move on. Referees don't always get it right. To say that Wales are bad losers when we had Facebook campaigns, nationwide petitions and widespread outrage is just a tad rich.

Fishooks12

GerM wrote: »

I'm comparing the reactions. Ours was pathetic and worse than what Wales are doing now. Our national association requested that the game be replayed. It was embarrassing. You take it on the chin and move on. Referees don't always get it right. To say that Wales are bad losers when we had Facebook campaigns, nationwide petitions and widespread outrage is just a tad rich.

Is that you Roy Keane??

GerM

Fishooks12 wrote: »

Is that you Roy Keane??

All credit to Alain Rolland at the end of the day.

murpho999

In my opinion it's a particularly British attitude to look for a scapegoat when defeated.

Every time an England team goes out of a a soccer tournament there is nearly always a ref to be vilified (Euro '04), opponent to be blamed (Ronaldo '06) or even their own players (Beckham '98). Happens too often instead of analysing their own performance and admitting faults. Very annoying.

No comparison to Henry incident as it was definitely a wrong call that swung the game.

Debate the sending off all day but in my opinion Wales had it in their own hands to win the game and failed to do so.

sunflower27

It's the initial aftermath. I understand the Welsh sentiment, but the red card is a cop-out. They could have won that still. France were shocking. It's the usual scapegoat scenario.

I imagine any country in the aftermath would be bleating on about why they lost and why it wasn't really their fault. Right up till the last minute Wales could have won that - and didn't.

In spite of being a man down for most of the game(and a key player & captain at that,as well as it being the correct decision), Wales were handed the opportunity on a plate to sneak a 2 point victory in the dying minutes & bottled it. For all his critisisms (a lot of which are justified, but some harsh too) ROG has saved his club & country's bacon a few times in contrast. Wales need to suck it up, that their kicking for posts was poor & should have closed out the game with a drop goal. France were abysmal throughout the pool & yesterday, its a miracle that they are in the final, perhaps that's the harsh lesson the welsh needed to learn at this level,having so many young, very talented but inexperienced players, that bottle us so crucial when it comes to the crunch.

JustinDee

Yes, sore losers in the immediate aftermath at least.
Just like the Irish.

murpho999

JustinDee wrote: »

Yes, sore losers in the immediate aftermath at least.
Just like the Irish.

Disagree, apart from Paris 09 in soccer name another occasion where the Irish were sore losers?

OldRio

As somebody who has lived in England and Wales. I can confirm, without doubt, that if a Gold Medal was given for bad losers, England and Wales would be in the final.

JustinDee

murpho999 wrote: »

Disagree, apart from Paris 09 in soccer name another occasion where the Irish were sore losers?

Well apart from the all embarrassing reaction to Thierry Henry's handball, have you forgotten the outrage following Cardiff this year already? The gip about Neil Back when Munster lost ERC final to Leicester? On-field assaults on officials at GAA games of varying levels every season?

Just as bad.

Littlehorny

sunflower27 wrote: »

It's the initial aftermath. I understand the Welsh sentiment, but the red card is a cop-out. They could have won that still. France were shocking. It's the usual scapegoat scenario.

I imagine any country in the aftermath would be bleating on about why they lost and why it wasn't really their fault. Right up till the last minute Wales could have won that - and didn't.

Exactly Sunflower, imo Stephen Jones is the reason Wales lost, not the red card, missed a couple of kickable scores, ran into trouble and got wrapped up, bottled it when a drop kick was on, think the occasion got on top of him. Game like that is made for your no.10 to win it for you.

murpho999

JustinDee wrote: »

Well apart from the all embarrassing reaction to Thierry Henry's handball, have you forgotten the outrage following Cardiff this year already? The gip about Neil Back when Munster lost ERC final to Leicester? On-field assaults on officials at GAA games of varying levels every season?

Just as bad.

Well I think a replay would have been fair (but impossible) with Henry incident and only 33rd team part was embarrassing.

Don't think the rest are good examples and not something that was done by the whole nation and its media.

Remember 2004 when English papers had ref as enemy number 1, I think even one paper published his address!

busyliving

Well I think if anyone is giving out about the card, they might want to read the rule book and the directive that was handed out to the referee's before the tournament.

The ref made the correct call with the red card and that is final, if they want to give out about other things, all well and good...but by the letter of the law...It was a Red Card "tackle"...

JustinDee

murpho999 wrote: »

Well I think a replay would have been fair (but impossible) with Henry incident and only 33rd team part was embarrassing

An unprecedented replay was 'fair'? Game was done. Decision was made. People should have sucked it up and moved on. It wasn't like anyone bloody well died.

murpho999 wrote: »

Don't think the rest are good examples and not something that was done by the whole nation and its media

Sorry they're not "good enough". Just all-round good sports are we Paddies. Never bothered. Never kick up a fuss over a result or decision. Just harmless victims.

murpho999 wrote: »

Remember 2004 when English papers had ref as enemy number 1, I think even one paper published his address!

I don't think moral relativism about the British press's behaviour excuses anyone else.

irishh_bob

the sending off was irrelevant in the end , wales left it behind them with thier abject waste

irishh_bob

JustinDee wrote: »

Well apart from the all embarrassing reaction to Thierry Henry's handball, have you forgotten the outrage following Cardiff this year already? The gip about Neil Back when Munster lost ERC final to Leicester? On-field assaults on officials at GAA games of varying levels every season?

Just as bad.

how was the irish reaction to what was outrageous cheating , embarrasing ?

maddness

27 phases and no dropgoal???????

duckysauce

scrum v should be fun tonight , will be interesting to see what Davies says he is normally balanced.

JustinDee

irishh_bob wrote: »

how was the irish reaction to what was outrageous cheating , embarrasing ?

Demanding replays and rule changes perhaps?
That isn't embarrassing? If not, point proven.

thebaz

steve9859 wrote: »

You seriously think it would be different here if Ireland had been in Wales' position?

agree 100 %, there seams to be a lot of anti Wales stuff here , following our defeat to them - i was as upset as anyone to lose - and yes the tackle was dangerous - a yellow card would have been the right call - Warburton was such a key player to them - and I think they did brilliantly following losing such a key player - France didnt even score a try

wixfjord

thebaz wrote: »

steve9859 wrote: »

You seriously think it would be different here if Ireland had been in Wales' position?

agree 100 %, there seams to be a lot of anti Wales stuff here , following our defeat to them - i was as upset as anyone to lose - and yes the tackle was dangerous - a yellow card would have been the right call - Warburton was such a key player to them - and I think they did brilliantly following losing such a key player - France didnt even score a try

Seriously, how many times does this need to be explained? it was certainly the right call.

RobAMerc

I have to say I don't see why people aren't showing more disdain towards the French who look like they don't want to be there and as if they will only bother to play when they see their foe as "worthy" of their presence.

Much the same as the French soccer team who disgraced themselves at the World Cup when they were too busy bitching about each other to show any pride in their jersey and play ( despite robbing a team who truely wanted to be there and were desperately proud to play for their country ) can of worms I know !

thebaz

wixfjord wrote: »

Seriously, how many times does this need to be explained? it was certainly the right call.

he could easily have branded a yellow - not going into another debate - people are entitled to opinons , different as well

wixfjord

thebaz wrote: »

wixfjord wrote: »

Seriously, how many times does this need to be explained? it was certainly the right call.

he could easily have branded a yellow - not going into another debate - people are entitled to opinons , different as well

Opinions are one thing, rules of the game and directives from above are another.

MungBean

Regardless of whether or not it was an actual red card tackle (not discussing it any more) you have to give the Welsh fans a little room to question a sending off in a word cup semi final. If it was an Irish player we'd be doing the same. We did it against France in soccer with Henry's hand ball, against Wales for that dodgy try. There was a lot of hostility for that gouge on Healy. Had any of those been in a world cup semi there would have been ructions on a large scale.

You take even the smallest thing and do it in a semi final and it magnifies it beyond reason. A sending off, playing 55 minutes with 14 men and losing by one point a lot of people will point fingers and ask questions and kick up a fuss.

All this talk of embarrassment and being undignified is a bit harsh. Its not the best way to conduct yourself but its understandable.

liammur

I believe the ref got the call wrong. But it was marginal. The real pity however was that it happened in the semi final of a world cup and the better team lost.

korec

I think one of the more awful things to come from this is the abuse Alain Rolland has got. I've read a lot of posts and articles from external websites and the tirade of insults directed towards him is unreal. Obviously this is mainly coming from Welsh people, but definitely totally unwarranted. There are actually some people out there convinced he should not referee again. And I think most of this stems from the media and Welsh coaching staff/players who have bandied totally inappropriate words to describe his decision to send off Warburton. Contentious decision or not, Rolland was technically correct. And to my mind he is one of the best if not the best referee out there.

Royale with Cheese

I've read a lot of crap about Welsh fans on this forum over the years, nearly all of it applies to Irish fans too. You get idiots in every country.

Dave Joyce

I hated losing to Wales but equally I was gutted for them yesterday. However, as a lot of posters have said, they only have themselves to blame and in particular Steven Jones. He really seemed like he did not want to know in that game and played not only poorly but like he didn't want to be there. His reaction was shocking initially when they got the penalty that Halfpenny just missed but his total BOTTLING the drop goal in the last dying seconds of the game was unforgivable. I mean if it was the very last thing that happened in the game and he missed, at least he/they would have went down fighting!!

As regards Warburton, I do think Popey had a point when he said if the directives are to be followed as strictly as they were yesterday, then red cards SHOULD be issued for taking out line out jumpers or guys jumping up for Garryowen's who get their legs taken out from under them!!! And of course I'd love to have seen the reaction IF the likes of Mc Caw dumped someone today in a similar fashion.

Hippo

liammur wrote: »

I believe the ref got the call wrong. But it was marginal. The real pity however was that it happened in the semi final of a world cup and the better team lost.

If they were the better team they'd not have left 17 points on the pitch (not that France contributed anything to the game)

handsomecake

halfpennies pen should have been pen to france.france would have been robbed. ball was out.mas had all the rights

wixfjord

handsomecake wrote: »

halfpennies pen should have been pen to france.france would have been robbed. ball was out.mas had all the rights

I thought that too.
Anyone who knows the rules well want to comment?
There was nobody protecting the ball, and it seemed to be out, Mas came from the side, but if the ball was out it doesn't matter does it?

Noffles

Royale with Cheese wrote: »

I've read a lot of crap about Welsh fans on this forum over the years, nearly all of it applies to Irish fans too. You get idiots in every country.

Very true

In regards to the game though, we lost it, losing a skipper and missing 4 kicks usually has that affect. Tough one to take but that's the way the 80 minutes on the pitch goes.

A lot of things said straight after the match would be emotional and not with a clear head, lots of people are like that...

We have another game to play on Friday and need to look at that from here on.. should be a good one too!!

liammur

Hippo wrote: »

If they were the better team they'd not have left 17 points on the pitch (not that France contributed anything to the game)

I didn't see them leaving any points on the pitch. I saw them miss a few penalties.

greendom

RobAMerc wrote: »

I have to say I don't see why people aren't showing more disdain towards the French who look like they don't want to be there and as if they will only bother to play when they see their foe as "worthy" of their presence.

Much the same as the French soccer team who disgraced themselves at the World Cup when they were too busy bitching about each other to show any pride in their jersey and play ( despite robbing a team who truely wanted to be there and were desperately proud to play for their country ) can of worms I know !

They got their tactics badly wrong, kicking at every opportunity and handing possession back to the Welsh and they showed virtually no attacking flair, but they defended well as a unit and for the last 5 minutes with amazing discipline keeping the Welsh out for something like 26 phases, even preventing them from getting a kick at goal. I think that showed plenty of pride and can't really be compared to the awfulness of the footballers last summer.

Morzadec

Feel really sorry for Allain Rolland.

He has the balls to make a big (but COMPLETELY correct) call and he is getting slated for it by media, fans and pundits alike.

Pundits fuelling it are the most to blame - whatever about the common idiot, these guys are meant to be experts and ignoring the CLEARLY STATED rules.

As was pointed out, a lot of people may have been watching this match may not have been proper fans of rugby or know much about it, which makes correct punditry in a situation like this even more important.

I'm a casual fan of Rugby and understand almost all the rules, but I wasn't aware of the strictness of the rules regarding this sort of tackle. I think it's a disgrace that I had to come onto boards.ie to learn from more informed posters that it was the correct decision, because the pundits were either too biased or too stupid to comment correctly.

Hard to blame the Welsh fans too much for feeling bitter when a lot of them may not have realised that Rolland's decision was correct and were being told so by 'experts'.

Pienaar, Delaglio, Williams, Thomas, Guscott, Sheehan and whoever else lambasted Rolland's decision should be ashamed imo, and should issue a public apology and backing to Rolland and his decision.

thebaz

wixfjord wrote: »

Opinions are one thing, rules of the game and directives from above are another.

and common sense is another thing , I accept that Rolland was technically correct , but have not altered my view that the common sense decision was a yellow card

GerM

Given that the IRB and Paddy O'Brien came out today and stated that Rolland was 100% correct in his decision as per relative laws and directives (which, according to POB, were restated at a referees course a week before the tournament), I think the furore surrounding him will die down and people will realise he did just what he was supposed to. A lot of people were speaking with their hearts and not their heads. Hopefully in the cold light of day their common sense will prevail over such flippant and ill judged comments.

justsomebloke

This thread isn't about the card and if it was or wasn't right so please don't make it one

shuffol

Maybe Wales could be the 3rd team in the World Cup Final.