The Race for the Park - who will the good people of Clare be voting for? - Continued

Lady Chatterton

The Presidental Election campaign kicked off yesterday with a number of radio and television debates on RTE and there will be another big debate on the Late Late Show tomorrow evening. I'm wondering if we can start our own debate here on the Clare forum on who might make the best president (similar to our pre-general election debate, which was great craic and it kept Clareman on his toes;)).

I was initially supporting David Norris but when I heard he wrote a letter to an Israeli court (on Seanad Eireann paper) seeking clemency for his former partner, Ezra Nawi, who had been convicted of the statutory rape of a 15-year-old Palestinian boy, I felt I could no longer support him.

At the moment I'm completely undecided.

Here is a list of the candidates

Mary Davis (Ind)
Michael D Higgins (Lab)
Sean Gallagher (Ind)
Martin McGuinness (SF)
Gay Mitchell (FG)
Senator David Norris (Ind)
Dana Rosemary Scallon (Ind)

Clareman, would you be kind enough to create a private poll? Thanks

CiaranMT

If people decide not to vote for Norris based on clemency letters then Gay Mitchell has to be out of the equation too.

Clareman

Poll added

Lady Chatterton

CiaranMT wrote: »

If people decide not to vote for Norris based on clemency letters then Gay Mitchell has to be out of the equation too.

No, I disagree. My issue with Mr. Norris is that he used his position in the Seanad to progress a personal matter, that was an abuse in my opinion. Having said that, I'm glad he has been given an opportunity by the councils to put his name on the ballot paper.

Carry

Martin McGuinness is an Independent????

To my knowlewdge he is still Sinn Fein.

Clareman

Party affiliation changed

Lady Chatterton

Thanks Carry! You're a 100% correct, Martin McGuinness is definitely a Sinn Fein candidate, that was a typo on my part

Carry

Nice to be right sometimes...;):D

Pity I can't vote, though.

CiaranMT

MrsD007 wrote: »

No, I disagree. My issue with Mr. Norris is that he used his position in the Seanad to progress a personal matter, that was an abuse in my opinion. Having said that, I'm glad he has been given an opportunity by the councils to put his name on the ballot paper.

What was Mitchell doing so?

Clareman

I have to say that I'm very uncomfortable having this thread in here, Regional Forums aren't really for Political Debate (we have places for those ), but I understand that people want to put a local slant on a national election so I'll leave the thread open, try to keep this relevant to Clare, if you want to discuss individual candidates and their overall merits, please feel free to visit the politics forum.

Lady Chatterton

I thought that this might be an interesting thread as the presidency of Ireland and the Banner County have been inextricably linked - De Valera (elected TD for Clare) was president for two terms, Dr. Patrick Hillery from Miltown Malbay also served as president for 14 years.

As for the Clare slant in this current election, Michael D Higgins, was reared in Ballycar, Newmarket on Fergus and attended St. Flannan’s College. That is Clare enough for me :)

Clareman

It's fine by me also (I'm not starting a debate on how long Dev spent in Clare btw ), I really don't want to have to start mediating between people debating the differences between stuff 2 candidates did.

pappyodaniel

I'm in some way related to Michael D through marriage so I'll be looking forward to free tickets for home 6 Nations games and All Ireland Finals

angelfire9

Has anyone seen any of these people in Clare canvassing yet or is it too early?
I know Sean Gallagher was in Ennis a few weeks ago and Michael D has his posters up but I haven't personally seen sight nor sound of any of them

Lady Chatterton

angelfire9 wrote: »

Has anyone seen any of these people in Clare canvassing yet or is it too early?
I know Sean Gallagher was in Ennis a few weeks ago and Michael D has his posters up but I haven't personally seen sight nor sound of any of them

David Norris was canvassing during the Fleadh Nua weekend but that was back in May, Mary Davis was in Clare to seek the nomination from Clare Co. Co.but they ended up supporting Sean Gallagher. I'd say all the candidates will do a little pit stop tour in the next few weeks.

mikemac

Dev, Paddy Hillary and Michael D?

Why don't you just move the Áras to Clare so

Lady Chatterton

mikemac wrote: »

Dev, Paddy Hillary and Michael D?

Why don't you just move the Áras to Clare so

I can't see Michael D going the distance.

I will be voting for whoever is running strongest in the polls against McGuinness

PARKHEAD67

Jazlynn Stale Tweed wrote: »

I will be voting for whoever is running strongest in the polls against McGuinness

Good for you...

Johnboy1951

angelfire9 wrote: »

Has anyone seen any of these people in Clare canvassing yet or is it too early?
I know Sean Gallagher was in Ennis a few weeks ago and Michael D has his posters up but I haven't personally seen sight nor sound of any of them

Michael D was in Newmarket recently to open some festival weekend or something.
Don't know that he was canvassing as such .... but his appearance was timely

PARKHEAD67

PARKHEAD67 wrote: »

Good for you...

I'm sorry, I must have been mistaken in thinking that this was a thread asking us who we were voting for in the upcoming presidential election, silly me. :rolleyes:

Insect Overlord

PARKHEAD67 wrote: »

Good for you...

Mod note: If you've nothing helpful/insightful to add, don't say anything at all. Thanks.

Claregirl

Made the mistake of voting LAB last election won't make the same mistake again. I'd like to vote for SF just for the fact that they're still campaigning for the common folk but something just doesn't sit right with McGuinness I'd probably have voted for them if they put forward a different candidate.

Having said that I was disgusted by the likes of Gay Byrne (Can't stand the man) coming out against him so viciously so just to spite him.....!

CptSternn

You have Gallagher who until he put his name in the hat was still on the FF national executive. He only quit after many years of membership to hide his FF roots as we all know no FF candidate will be elected. He is also hiding the fact that he was on the FAS board which gave itself huge pay rises and when caught all got golden parachutes a few months ago.

Then you have Davis. Ross put it best in his article last week when he labeled her 'quango queen'. She was on the board of a Bank Of Ireland subsidiary when it failed, but it didn't stop her from getting a huge payout on the way out the door. Same goes for the DAA, she was on that board too when they agreed to give all the top dogs there six figure salaries all the while Shannon was going under. Her website lists a dozen other quangos she was on all simultaneously during the boom years, which is odd considering she has a degree to teach gym. If it were not for her FF roots which like Gallagher she has conveniently omitted from all of her literature, she would have never gotten so many lucrative do-nothing positions which she used at the tax payers expense to make herself rich. She is quite possibly the first millionaire gym teacher who is running for president.

http://www.independent.ie/opinion/columnists/shane-ross/shane-ross-quango-queen-eyes-the-park-2886869.html

Hawk Wing 2

I saw a Norris campaign type jeep in Ennis today

PARKHEAD67

Jazlynn Stale Tweed wrote: »

I'm sorry, I must have been mistaken in thinking that this was a thread asking us who we were voting for in the upcoming presidential election, silly me. :rolleyes:

You didnt say who you were voting for.You told everyone who you werent voting for.Silly me:rolleyes:

Clareman

1 of the processes for elections is deciding who not to vote for, especially in Proportional Elections. Lets not turn the thread into a slagging match.

dr.fuzzenstein

McGuinness?
Seriously, like, are you kidding me?
Yeah, he never killed anyone, I guess he never was in a position to have to get his hands dirty himself.
What possible relevance could a northern politician and, let's face it, terrorist, have as Irish president, no really, I don't get it. Please explain.
At least Michael D won't be a one issue president, the guy has class, dignity, wit, intelligence and certainly never had to protest he never killed anyone.
I guess that in times of crisis the most radical candidate will always be popular.
Maybe the Irish want a president that can "persuade" Europe more efficiently to give us more dosh?

PARKHEAD67

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

McGuinness?
Seriously, like, are you kidding me?
Yeah, he never killed anyone, I guess he never was in a position to have to get his hands dirty himself.
What possible relevance could a northern politician and, let's face it, terrorist, have as Irish president, no really, I don't get it. Please explain.
At least Michael D won't be a one issue president, the guy has class, dignity, wit, intelligence and certainly never had to protest he never killed anyone.
I guess that in times of crisis the most radical candidate will always be popular.
Maybe the Irish want a president that can "persuade" Europe more efficiently to give us more dosh?

Ill explain as best I can dr.very briefly. Martin Mcguinness grew up in a city where 14 unarmed civil rights protesters were murdered by British soldiers.A place where to be a Catholic meant you were treated as some sort of sub-human piece of dirt.A place where internment without trial took place.You could be picked off the street at random and subjected to all types of interrogation.(where the old beating or two took place).You call him a terrorist? By God, Id love to see you and your mates go through the amount of c*ap that the Catholics in the north went through back then. You conveniently forget all the good hes done in the Peace Process since the bad old days.He sees dialogue as the way forward.Hes conversing with Ian Paisly and Peter Robinson on a daily basis.Two hardline Unionists for Gods sake. Yet, you cant see through the fog.

CiaranMT

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

Maybe the Irish want a president that can "persuade" Europe more efficiently to give us more dosh?

The Irish president has absolutely no serious role in Europe for us.

CptSternn

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

McGuinness?
Seriously, like, are you kidding me?
Yeah, he never killed anyone, I guess he never was in a position to have to get his hands dirty himself.
What possible relevance could a northern politician and, let's face it, terrorist, have as Irish president, no really, I don't get it. Please explain.
At least Michael D won't be a one issue president, the guy has class, dignity, wit, intelligence and certainly never had to protest he never killed anyone.
I guess that in times of crisis the most radical candidate will always be popular.
Maybe the Irish want a president that can "persuade" Europe more efficiently to give us more dosh?

I'll start by saying Iam voting for Norris, and I'll be happy to outline why, but in another post.

Per the McGuinness bashing though, it does seem a bit unfounded. Here is why -

There was a great article in the Times about him last week you can read here:

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2011/0928/1224304857139.html

It brings up a very good point many people seem to be missing. Currently, he holds the highest office in N. Ireland. He has been an elected politician for quite some time. He has a very good track record for an elected politician, and most importantly, the UK like him.

The above article contains quotes of support from former British secretary of state Shaun Woodward (Labour). To say he is not a good candidate is to say the whole UK has it wrong and they are all eejits. To argue he would be a bad politician is to be intentionally obtuse about his current track record.

What is really strange is the people of the UK have accepted him as their leader for N. Ireland, yet small pockets in the Republic treat him like a pariah. If the British people can get over it, it makes those in the Republic, those who have even less of a quarrel against him than the British do, seem very small and petty.

He didn't wage war against Ireland, so if the people he was fighting against can move on, what does it say about people who can't?

dr.fuzzenstein

OK, points taken about McGuinness.
All very well and good, but is the politics of the North relevant for the role of president?
To me it's more of a look back, rather than a look forward.
Granted SF has gained some popularity here, but to me that party exists with one purpose at heart and maybe that could be to the detriment of other issues.
Maybe it's also to do with hearing "the afternoon film has been canceled to bring you 4 hours of debate from Stormont" that opens up a little pit of despair in my stomach every time I hear the name of any northern politician mentioned, not just SF.
Anyways, Michael D for me.

Balagan

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

...Maybe the Irish want a president that can "persuade" Europe more efficiently to give us more dosh?

You mean like a heist?

PARKHEAD67

CptSternn wrote: »

I'll start by saying Iam voting for Norris, and I'll be happy to outline why, but in another post.

Per the McGuinness bashing though, it does seem a bit unfounded. Here is why -

There was a great article in the Times about him last week you can read here:

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2011/0928/1224304857139.html

It brings up a very good point many people seem to be missing. Currently, he holds the highest office in N. Ireland. He has been an elected politician for quite some time. He has a very good track record for an elected politician, and most importantly, the UK like him.

The above article contains quotes of support from former British secretary of state Shaun Woodward (Labour). To say he is not a good candidate is to say the whole UK has it wrong and they are all eejits. To argue he would be a bad politician is to be intentionally obtuse about his current track record.

What is really strange is the people of the UK have accepted him as their leader for N. Ireland, yet small pockets in the Republic treat him like a pariah. If the British people can get over it, it makes those in the Republic, those who have even less of a quarrel against him than the British do, seem very small and petty.

He didn't wage war against Ireland, so if the people he was fighting against can move on, what does it say about people who can't?

Excellent post.:)

Kasabian

A percentage of Clare people put Timmy Dooley back in the Dáil, this proves that a percentage of Clare people should have no voting rights as they obviously haven't the brains to use it correctly.

Tora Bora

CptSternn wrote: »

I'll start by saying Iam voting for Norris, and I'll be happy to outline why, but in another post.

Per the McGuinness bashing though, it does seem a bit unfounded. Here is why -

There was a great article in the Times about him last week you can read here:

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2011/0928/1224304857139.html

It brings up a very good point many people seem to be missing. Currently, he holds the highest office in N. Ireland. He has been an elected politician for quite some time. He has a very good track record for an elected politician, and most importantly, the UK like him.

The above article contains quotes of support from former British secretary of state Shaun Woodward (Labour). To say he is not a good candidate is to say the whole UK has it wrong and they are all eejits. To argue he would be a bad politician is to be intentionally obtuse about his current track record.

What is really strange is the people of the UK have accepted him as their leader for N. Ireland, yet small pockets in the Republic treat him like a pariah. If the British people can get over it, it makes those in the Republic, those who have even less of a quarrel against him than the British do, seem very small and petty.

He didn't wage war against Ireland, so if the people he was fighting against can move on, what does it say about people who can't?

Why on earth is the fact that the UK like him important? Who gives a sh1t, about their feelings towards anybody, never mind our would be president.

Carry

Tora Bora wrote: »

Why on earth is the fact that the UK like him important? Who gives a sh1t, about their feelings towards anybody, never mind our would be president.

Because it was argued by some politicians (and others) that MCG as president wouldn't be accepted abroad and would damage the reputation of Ireland.

The president is mainly an ambassador for his country. So it should be important that other countries accept him.

Balagan

Carry wrote: »

Because it was argued by some politicians (and others) that MCG as president wouldn't be accepted abroad and would damage the reputation of Ireland.

The president is mainly an ambassador for his country. So it should be important that other countries accept him.

Gaddafi would have had a great welcome for him.

Lady Chatterton

Mary Davis and Gay Mitchell still have no votes :eek: :eek: :eek:

PARKHEAD67

Kasabian wrote: »

A percentage of Clare people put Timmy Dooley back in the Dáil, this proves that a percentage of Clare people should have no voting rights as they obviously haven't the brains to use it correctly.

I agree about Dooley. The stupidity of some voters is very hard to comprehend.

PARKHEAD67

MrsD007 wrote: »

Mary Davis and Gay Mitchell still have no votes :eek: :eek: :eek:

Quite rightly;)

Hawk Wing 2

Carry wrote: »

Because it was argued by some politicians (and others) that MCG as president wouldn't be accepted abroad and would damage the reputation of Ireland.

The president is mainly an ambassador for his country. So it should be important that other countries accept him.

HE is perfectly acceptable internationally as deputy prime minister for Northern Ireland, why not for this little Banana republic?

Lady Chatterton

Check out Mary Davis' new posters :;):D

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056403738&page=89 (Post 1332)

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056403738&page=90 (Post 1349)

WakeyTyke

Totally uninspired by any of the candidates so far.

Think I will decide by a process of elimination.

First to go is Michael D. because there are way too many of his posters around town, a complete waste of money and materials.:(

Kasabian

WakeyTyke wrote: »

Totally uninspired by any of the candidates so far.

Think I will decide by a process of elimination.

First to go is Michael D. because there are way too many of his posters around town, a complete waste of money and materials.:(

Kilrush needs brightening up

willow tree

i'll be voting for norris but i'm impressed with sean gallaghers approach to the post , especially the idea of no posters- 2nd vote for that.
i wonder how this poll reflects outside polls, anyone i've spoken is very anti martin but he seems to be doing well in clare boards poll:) i don't always mind where someone comes from but if they've arrived at a better place in life thats a good thing..it can show an ability to grow and learn.

redhot

Where is the option vote for "none of the above"?

IMHO, none of the candidates inspire, they won't help the world take Ireland seriously, and with several questionable pasts between them- wish we could wait to have a line up with more credibility, before putting the country to the vote

Clareman

None of the above is the same as with the real election, you don't vote.

CptSternn

New articles on the candidates are bringing up more issues...

You have Michael D who now as been outed as a pro-choice (pro-abortion) supporter. This seems to be bothering a few people.

http://www.politics.ie/forum/irish-presidential-election-2011/172354-if-you-voting-michael-d-you-voting-abortion-always-remember.html

All of FF are now out canvassing for Gallagher, they even have pictures up of him on their website(s). Not running a candidate? Far from it. They apparently are trying to sneak one in the backdoor here.

http://www.politics.ie/forum/irish-presidential-election-2011/172234-gallagher-really-now-fianna-fail-candidate.html

And turns out Dana swore allegience to the United States. Some have said Dev was a US citzen, but sure, he was born there and got it for free. She on the other hand had to say this in front of a judge -

"I hereby declare, on oath, that I absolutely and entirely renounce and abjure all allegiance and fidelity to any foreign prince, potentate, state or sovereignty, of whom or which I have heretofore been a subject or citizen; that I will support and defend the Constitution and laws of the United States of America against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I will bear arms on behalf of the United States when required by the law; that I will perform noncombatant service in the armed forces of the United States when required by the law; that I will perform work of national importance under civilian direction when required by the law; and that I take this obligation freely without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; so help me God."

http://www.politics.ie/forum/irish-presidential-election-2011/172332-dana-us-citizen-has-renounced-her-allegiance-ireland.html

When you become a U.S. citizen, you must give up all prior allegiances to other countries. Although nobody will care if you root for your birth country in a soccer match (actually, some soccer fans may care, but the U.S. government certainly won't), you won't be able to defend that country against the United States in times of conflict or war. You must also be willing to serve your new country, the United States of America, when required. What this means is that if the U.S. is at war or in the midst of some other type of crisis, you need to be willing to take up arms for the U.S. or otherwise aid the military effort in whatever capacity is needed.

http://www.dummies.com/how-to/content/determining-whether-you-really-want-to-become-a-us.html

Looks like the media has started to turn it's Microscope away from Norris and McGuinness and has at least started looking at the other candidates. Finally.

Dublinman12

CptSternn wrote: »

New articles on the candidates are bringing up more issues...

You have Michael D who now as been outed as a pro-choice (pro-abortion) supporter. This seems to be bothering a few people.

http://www.politics.ie/forum/irish-presidential-election-2011/172354-if-you-voting-michael-d-you-voting-abortion-always-remember.html

All of FF are now out canvassing for Gallagher, they even have pictures up of him on their website(s). Not running a candidate? Far from it. They apparently are trying to sneak one in the backdoor here.

http://www.politics.ie/forum/irish-presidential-election-2011/172234-gallagher-really-now-fianna-fail-candidate.html

And turns out Dana swore allegience to the United States. Some have said Dev was a US citzen, but sure, he was born there and got it for free. She on the other hand had to say this in front of a judge -

"I hereby declare, on oath, that I absolutely and entirely renounce and abjure all allegiance and fidelity to any foreign prince, potentate, state or sovereignty, of whom or which I have heretofore been a subject or citizen; that I will support and defend the Constitution and laws of the United States of America against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I will bear arms on behalf of the United States when required by the law; that I will perform noncombatant service in the armed forces of the United States when required by the law; that I will perform work of national importance under civilian direction when required by the law; and that I take this obligation freely without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; so help me God."

http://www.politics.ie/forum/irish-presidential-election-2011/172332-dana-us-citizen-has-renounced-her-allegiance-ireland.html



http://www.dummies.com/how-to/content/determining-whether-you-really-want-to-become-a-us.html

Looks like the media has started to turn it's Microscope away from Norris and McGuinness and has at least started looking at the other candidates. Finally.

Good post..in fact this is the best and most balanced thread on the election I have read so far..compared to the Norris and McGuinness bashing blueshirt threads its refreshing..

PARKHEAD67

willow tree wrote: »

i'll be voting for norris but i'm impressed with sean gallaghers approach to the post , especially the idea of no posters- 2nd vote for that.
i wonder how this poll reflects outside polls, anyone i've spoken is very anti martin but he seems to be doing well in clare boards poll:) i don't always mind where someone comes from but if they've arrived at a better place in life thats a good thing..it can show an ability to grow and learn.

Norris hasnt a chance(my god, he was a seedy boy).Sean Gallagher is, as my mother would say-a chancer.Anyway, best of luck to both.Hope they do really well;).Im a Martin man-Good honest policy.Just my opinion.