All things stretching....

watermark

Would like to get some perspective on stretching.
1. Does it improve flexibility?
2. Static vs Dynamic
3. Personal Experiences

I havent seen a thread on this yet and have never starteed a thread ever so forgive me if iv left things a bit vague to start with.

pacquiao

watermark wrote: »

Would like to get some perspective on stretching.
1. Does it improve flexibility?
2. Static vs Dynamic
3. Personal Experiences

I havent seen a thread on this yet and have never starteed a thread ever so forgive me if iv left things a bit vague to start with.

2. If you want to kick someone in the face, you don't need static flexibility, only dynamic.
Stretching of muscles has no place in sports. Our muscle stretch when they are relaxed,not stretched.

jugger0

1. Yes
2. Dynamic warm-up before weightlifting, static on rest days
3. Before stretching i was inflexible and injury prone, after getting a decent stretching routine off my physio i am neither of those things, i would consider it very important.

blueshark22

do you have to warm-up before stretching , or can you just go straight into it say from watching tv or whatever.

Vomit

pacquiao wrote: »

Stretching of muscles has no place in sports. Our muscle stretch when they are relaxed,not stretched.

What about gymnastics? Or kickboxing? I haven't met a serious kickboxer or martial artist who couldn't at least do the splits in one direction.

Stretching increases flexibility, but should be done after the sport itself or on a different day, after warming up. It's better to devote time specifically to stretching.

gymsoldier

blueshark22 wrote: »

do you have to warm-up before stretching , or can you just go straight into it say from watching tv or whatever.

I'd never stretch a cold muscle, but that's just me. All opposing say aye...

cgpg5

blueshark22 wrote: »

do you have to warm-up before stretching , or can you just go straight into it say from watching tv or whatever.

Always do a quick warm up on the treadmill/pitch wherever before stretching. Gets the blood flowing, so your muscles arent cold when stretching.

Mellor

Are your muscles ever "cold"?. It there a significant difference in temp before and after a light warm-up. Or is this just something that people say.

Most of the stretching that is taught to us as children from the local sports teams is wrong. As were the reasons for doing so.

Yes, you should be stretching. Everyone should.
But proper stretching and peoples preception of stretching are two different things.

Orando Broom

Mellor wrote: »

Are your muscles ever "cold"?. It there a significant difference in temp before and after a light warm-up. Or is this just something that people say.

Most of the stretching that is taught to us as children from the local sports teams is wrong. As were the reasons for doing so.

Yes, you should be stretching. Everyone should.
But proper stretching and peoples preception of stretching are two different things.

What is the best way to warm up muscles, in your opinion? Could you give us an idea of your warm up routine?

Barry.Oglesby

pacquiao wrote: »

2. If you want to kick someone in the face, you don't need static flexibility, only dynamic.
Stretching of muscles has no place in sports. Our muscle stretch when they are relaxed,not stretched.

I'm not 100% sure what you are trying to say with this, but I think you are stating that our muscles are in different states when doing dynamic stretches (contracted) versus static stretches (relaxed), and that stretching them only in the relaxed state won't have an effect. Am I right?

If so, then you are correct and incorrect simultaneously. I's true that static stretching ability doesn't necessarily transfer to a sporting or dynamic movement, but you can't have one without the other. There's a place for both static and dynamic flexibility work, and remember that it's not just muscle you're stretching either.

Stretching of muscles have plenty of places in sports , and also I've seen many a kickboxer who can't do the splits in either direction!

Mellor

Orando Broom wrote: »

What is the best way to warm up muscles, in your opinion? Could you give us an idea of your warm up routine?

I think you are missing the point of my post. You aren't trying to simply warm your muscles. The increase is minor, at rest the body is still warm. But there are other reasons to do it, like increased blood flow, joint and muscle prep. It's not unlike dynamic stretching in that regard.
Standing in a sauna would warm your muscle just as much, but prob isn't very useful. Which is basically the point I was making.

Your warm-up and stretching should be carried out with the activity in mind. And not just a bit of a run and holding your foot in an awkward stretch position for 10 seconds. Which is what I was previously thought and now believe is wrong (the static stretch bit)

My warm-up, honestly isn't nearly as much as I like.
As an example. I did this on my last ME Squat day.

Up a few sets of stairs to the gym
Thoracic Mobility with a foam roller.
Dynamic ankle knee stretch I can't remember the name of.
Fire Hydrants - Hips
Prisoner squats
Shoulder dislocates

Warm up Squats;
20kg x 8
60kg x 5
Ands so on a triple, double, and a single before 4 ME singles

There's prob a ton of stuff missing.

Kadongy

2. Static reduces muscle strength temporarily. Hence people not doing it while warming up for weight training.

Hanley

Kadongy wrote: »

2. Static reduces muscle strength temporarily. Hence people not doing it while warming up for weight training.

The actual effect on athletic performance is debatable. The way the studies were conducted make the results pretty unreliable.

Target static stretching to the right areas can improve testing too funnily enough (aggressive hip flexor stretching can lead to a higher vertical jump).

Kadongy

Hanley wrote: »

The actual effect on athletic performance is debatable. The way the studies were conducted make the results pretty unreliable.

Target static stretching to the right areas can improve testing too funnily enough (aggressive hip flexor stretching can lead to a higher vertical jump).

Stretching the hip flexors helps vertical jumps because they are weakened though - they oppose the muscles used in the jump.

Hanley

Kadongy wrote: »

Stretching the hip flexors helps vertical jumps because they are weakened though - they oppose the muscles used in the jump.

I'm very much aware of that.

J-Fit

Hanley wrote: »

The actual effect on athletic performance is debatable. The way the studies were conducted make the results pretty unreliable.

Target static stretching to the right areas can improve testing too funnily enough (aggressive hip flexor stretching can lead to a higher vertical jump).

There's a fair amount of anecdotal evidence + one research paper that I know of (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18768355) that suggests dynamic stretching following static stretching offsets the decreases in power that have been observed in previous studies.

As has been said, static stretching very much has its place in sport but not at the time or for the reasons thought by many sports coaches.

Hanley

J-Fit wrote: »

There's a fair amount of anecdotal evidence + one research paper that I know of (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18768355) that suggests dynamic stretching following static stretching offsets the decreases in power that have been observed in previous studies.

As has been said, static stretching very much has its place in sport but not at the time or for the reasons thought by many sports coaches.

There sure is!!

The thing I've never really seen (and I could have missed it) is some description of the time between stretching and performance of the exercise - ie if you stretch really hard for 2 mintues and then immediately try to do something, your power output is obviously going to be lower.

The effect of dynamic work after that may just be enough to allow the muscle to "recover" and get back to it's normal force output levels, but then again passively resting for an equivalent amount of time may do the exact same.

My basic point being, you're not expect to perform in sport immediately after stretching, and as far as I'm aware the studies indicate that trying to perform immediately after stretching shows a decreased power output, thus they are not applicable to sporting situations.

I welcome any links showing studies which give detailed explanations of test protocals re: rest periods between stretching and performing tho.

J-Fit

Hanley wrote: »

J-Fit wrote: »

There's a fair amount of anecdotal evidence + one research paper that I know of (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18768355) that suggests dynamic stretching following static stretching offsets the decreases in power that have been observed in previous studies.

As has been said, static stretching very much has its place in sport but not at the time or for the reasons thought by many sports coaches.

There sure is!!

The thing I've never really seen (and I could have missed it) is some description of the time between stretching and performance of the exercise - ie if you stretch really hard for 2 mintues and then immediately try to do something, your power output is obviously going to be lower.

The effect of dynamic work after that may just be enough to allow the muscle to "recover" and get back to it's normal force output levels, but then again passively resting for an equivalent amount of time may do the exact same.

My basic point being, you're not expect to perform in sport immediately after stretching, and as far as I'm aware the studies indicate that trying to perform immediately after stretching shows a decreased power output, thus they are not applicable to sporting situations.

I welcome any links showing studies which give detailed explanations of test protocals re: rest periods between stretching and performing tho.

I'd love to see that too. I'd never actually considered the fact that doing nothing post static stretch might actually achieve the same thing as a dynamic stretch. Interesting angle......

Vomit

Your dynamic flexibility is limited by your static flexibility. As a martial artist, for example, you'll never side-kick someone in the head with proper form without first being statically flexible enough to do so (and strong enough to resist gravity etc). That's not to say that you should stretch statically before performing in the sport (though I did, lightly).

But for most other sports that don't depend so strongly on leg flexibility, it's less important to emphasise static stretching days.

Scuba Ste

I think if you've chronic tightness or feel tight in certain areas then stretch, particularly if it's something that could affect your training/performance/whatever your doing.

Personal experience. I almost always stretch my quads before training, I find it helps with hip extension similar to stretching hip flexors. I'll do some foam rolling before and then some dynamic mobility work after it before moving onto specific warm ups. That's my usual warm up routine; roll, stretch, mobility work.

If you need to stretch, do it. If not, don't. That's my take.

J-Fit

Vomit wrote: »

Your dynamic flexibility is limited by your static flexibility. As a martial artist, for example, you'll never side-kick someone in the head with proper form without first being statically flexible enough to do so (and strong enough to resist gravity etc). That's not to say that you should stretch statically before performing in the sport (though I did, lightly).

But for most other sports that don't depend so strongly on leg flexibility, it's less important to emphasise static stretching days.

I agree with you there. The thing is, static stretching doesn't really prepare you for the immediate movement patterns in the sport in question. You'll probably agree that it is an attempt at building cumulative functionality over time whereas dynamic flexibility is specifically designed to prepare somebody "acutely" for immediate training/competition. That's why I think the whole argument against static stretching is an overreaction - it just needs to be utilised in the correct manner.

Barry.Oglesby

I should have just said that ^

mushykeogh

J-Fit wrote: »

I agree with you there. The thing is, static stretching doesn't really prepare you for the immediate movement patterns in the sport in question. You'll probably agree that it is an attempt at building cumulative functionality over time whereas dynamic flexibility is specifically designed to prepare somebody "acutely" for immediate training/competition. That's why I think the whole argument against static stretching is an overreaction - it just needs to be utilised in the correct manner.

Great Post. As with all things there is curve or continuum. Pick the right stretch for the right job at the right time and all that. My calve/achilles is chronically tight, have to stretch it before i run big time. Not too worried at being .5 to 1 sec slower over my first 1km of a 5 km run!

With most of the static stretch studies they have a vigourous static or pnf stretch, often for multiple sets of 30 secs or more. And targeting lots of muscles, so quads, hamstrings , hip flexors and glutes get a major stretch followed by an explosive/strength related exercise, squat or sprint very soon after, < 2mins in alot of studies i think.
So obviously we sap the muscle of its elastic tension or stiffness properties making less reactive and less able to produce force. But sure what else did you think would happen?

Static stretch followed by a good dynamic/active warm up of 10/15 minutes seems to be enough to allow the muscles return to your normal or base line capabilities.

For really tight/short muscles static stretch is essential. It just has to be in the right place of your training session.

I have plenty of the static and dynamic studies in a folder somewhere il root them out tonight. I know in sprint/jump events there is a lot of debate on how to maintain muscle stiffness/spring but still having enough flexibility so the muscles arent overly tight or being strained to the extent that we get a small strain/tear in the muscles.

Reading the abstracts only in some of these studies is like recommending a film to your mates after only reading the back of the dvd. The detail is always in the methodology. I cant incorporate that into a dvd analogy but you get the idea.

Pre event, static if required, then onto dynamic/active. Adding length to a muscle, static/AIS seem to be the way to go.

Oh, just seen the post by Hanley up there, i kind of just repeated what he said didnt i?.