Man told he can stay in ghost estate home

Sunnyisland

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/squatter-told-he-can-stay-in-nama-ghost-estate-home-2907066.html

He was on the housing list for five years and, out of desperation to find somewhere to call home, eventually resorted to squatting in one of the thousands of empty houses in ghost estates littering Ireland.
William Tuohy said last night that the house in Church Hill, Tullamore, Co Offaly, wasn't his first choice -- but he is delighted with his new home.
And yesterday a judge allowed him to continue living there when she threw out a case to force Mr Tuohy from his home.
Mr Tuohy (46) had appeared before Tullamore District Court charged with trespassing in the NAMA house.
But after viewing pictures of the improvements he had made to the two-storey home, Judge Catherine Staines dismissed the case, saying there was no evidence that he had intended to commit an offence.
Mr Tuohy, a separated father of seven who is originally from Mountmellick, Co Laois, moved into the house four months ago.
There are around 250 houses in the estate, with a further 20 unfinished. Around 30 of the completed homes are unoccupied.
Mr Tuohy said he had made the house his own.
Previously in rented accommodation, he had to leave following a dispute with the landlord, who he says failed to deal with open sewage flowing in the back garden.
Now his children -- who are aged between eight and 29 -- love to visit on the weekend because they can play in the garden.
"I'm delighted to have somewhere nice for them to come into. It's lovely to have somewhere where you're not worrying about what's going on outside," he said.
He said this particular house wasn't his first choice, but he loved its quiet location at the rear of the housing estate.
"I picked a house at the very front but unfortunately, when I went to move into it, somebody had broken in and robbed the tanks out of it and the houses all along that block," he said yesterday.
He said he was frank with gardai when they visited him.
"I explained straight out what I was doing. I told them I was claiming squatters' rights using adverse possession to the property," he said.
Mr Tuohy is unemployed and receives a disability pension because of depression. He also admits to previous drug problems. He said he enjoyed doing up the house because it kept him busy.
Inspect
He said it was "no problem" to get it connected to the ESB mains after paying a local company €250 to inspect and confirm the house was wired properly.
There is a gas connection but he cannot afford gas so he relies on solid fuel for heat.
Michael Duignan Auctioneers was handling the sale of the properties, which were priced up to €300,000.
Speaking after the judge dismissed the garda prosecution for trespass, Mr Tuohy, who has been on the housing list in Tullamore for five years, said he tried all the vacant properties in the estate until he found one with an open door.
The house had a fitted cherrywood kitchen and bathroom and he painted the walls, put down flooring and dealt with a serious mould problem that developed while the house was vacant for three years.
There were no electrical appliances so he bought his own but said much of the furniture had been donated by family and friends. He said he had paid around €2,000 on the house and that the money had made it "very habitable".
The case was dismissed because, after seeing photographs of his new home, the judge said there was no evidence he had intended to commit an offence.
"I was kind of surprised when she went with me -- the guards seemed to have everything wrapped up. As far as I was concerned it didn't look good.
"She might have put me out of the house but I knew she was going to be fair with me, maybe give me a month or six weeks to get a place."
Solicitor John Hughes explained that his client had been left to his own devices in the house and, as they had recently learned the name of the owner, who is in NAMA, Mr Tuohy would like to pay rent and arrears.
He described Church View as "effectively a ghost estate, part completed, part unoccupied and unfinished, with around 30 vacant houses".
Mr Tuohy said he planned to stay in the property.
"I just want a place of my own, somewhere to bring my kids at the end of the week, with no headaches.
"I can't understand why somebody like the council can't take over these properties and rent them out to people. It's a shame. There are so many people on the housing list."
- Claire O'Brien

Is this going to start an avalanche of people claiming squatters rights should they be given to the homeless and people on the housing lists ? and what should be done about the many ghost estates around the country ?
My opinion is that its an injustice to everyone that we have such housing estates with so many people homeless and under threat of losing there homes what should the government do ?

Sunnyisland

THE Department of the Environment revealed this week that almost 19,000 completed new homes remain unsold in so-called ghost estates across the country -- but the number is falling.

The new statistics show almost 4,500 houses and apartments have been occupied in the last year, but 18,638 units lie empty.

The National Housing Survey also reported that more than 800 developments have been finished since the last survey in 2010, with works funded by bank receivers, NAMA, local authorities and developers.

Meanwhile, there are about 100,000 households on the local authority housing waiting list, up from 58,000 in 2008.

However, NAMA has no specific legal obligation to help resolve the social housing problem. And a spokesman for Nama said it doesn't own properties. "NAMA owns loans which are secured against properties, which includes residential properties in ghost estates," he said.

"There are developers, there are borrowers, there are companies who own these properties who have loans that are now in NAMA.

"We are working with the Department of the Environment and Local Government to identify units which might be used for social housing."

A spokesman for the Department of the Environment added: "We can't come along and take what we don't own."

-

MagicMarker

Fair play to him.

He should not have the place for free though! Arrange some sort of tenancy agreement and start charging rent, even if it's 50 quid a week it's better to get something for it!

IvySlayer

"I explained straight out what I was doing. I told them I was claiming squatters' rights using adverse possession to the property," he said.
Mr Tuohy is unemployed and receives a disability pension because of depression. He also admits to previous drug problems. He said he enjoyed doing up the house because it kept him busy.

So the state pays for his life and he gets a free house?

westendgirlie

Oh I'm split. On one hand I applaud him and what he has done to a run down house. But on the other hand, more are gonna break in and squat and they won't care what state they live in.

phasers

His 29 year old likes to play in the garden?

Reamer Fanny

G-g-g-ghost I wouldn't stay in a ghost estate if you paid me

Sunnyisland

Magic Marker wrote: »

Fair play to him.

He should not have the place for free though! Arrange some sort of tenancy agreement and start charging rent, even if it's 50 quid a week it's better to get something for it!

westendgirlie wrote: »

Oh I'm split. On one hand I applaud him and what he has done to a run down house. But on the other hand, more are gonna break in and squat and they won't care what state they live in.

And what about the people in simlar houses down the road who are up to there necks in mortgages, Is it fair on them ?

ringadingding

Sounds like a total chancer to me.

Eleganza

Very few if any owner occupiers in that estate. Most of what was sold went to people buying as an "investment".

suicide_circus

IvySlayer wrote: »

So the state pays for his life and he gets a free house?

Yep, that's how we roll here in Ireland.

Person A: Start producing kids at 17, develope a drug problem and dont work. The state provides you with free money due to your resulting depression. Then you take a vacant house, squat there, spend thousands of state money doing it up and then get to keep the house for free.

Person B: Lives life with some level of cop on. Stays within the law. Works every hour God sends. State takes almost half your wages in order to pay for Person A's lifestyle choices.

wyndhurst

FFS....What a country!
A perfectly able bodied man on a disability payment. Clearly nothing wrong with him after laying floors, painting walls, renovating a house and fathering seven children.
Another example of the abuse of the welfare system.
Now, if he would only use the same ingenuity to go get himself some work and out of our pockets.

El Siglo

Audentis Fortuna iuuat - Fortune favours the bold.

catbear

westendgirlie wrote: »

Oh I'm split. On one hand I applaud him and what he has done to a run down house. But on the other hand, more are gonna break in and squat and they won't care what state they live in.

He didn't break in, he found a house that was unlocked and he always maintained he was seeking squating rights. He always refered to the law.

By offering to pay arrears the only offense he's guilty of is highlighting how ineficient this society is in providing for itself. I applaud the man for his initiative, he's cut through a lot of public service wastage. He is trying to do what is best in a system where landlords are prioritised.

As for the numbers of empties I believe that the figures quoted are way out, there are far more empty properties around this country.

Twenty years after their bust, some small towns in Japan can't give away property!

MagicMarker

realies wrote: »

And what about the people in simlar houses down the road who are up to there necks in mortgages, Is it fair on them ?

No, probably not, but should we put him out on the street to appease those stupid enough to spend 400k on a 3 bed semi?

Like I said, he should not be living there for free, if he's made to pay rent then I don't see a problem.

suicide_circus

MagicMarker wrote: »

No, probably not, but should we put him out on the street to appease those stupid enough to spend 400k on a 3 bed semi?

well this lad was stupid enough to have 7 kids he couldnt afford, start abusing drugs and claim disability despite being clearly able to work and the state sees fit to appease him by handing him a free 3 bedroom semi-d. where's the equity?

Duke Leonal Felmet

That article read like a broken record.

Sooopie

His 7 kids :rolleyes:

How does he provide for them?

His disability pension for depression, yeh?

And you then you have the people struggling to keep their home, working & paying their taxes.

Pathetic IMO

suicide_circus

the only positive i can see is the tax payer dosnt have to pay to house this chancer anymore.

ringadingding

suicide_circus wrote: »

the only positive i can see is the tax payer dosnt have to pay to house this chancer anymore.

Until he gets rent allowance to pay the rent he has offered to nama.

drdeadlift

"learned the name of the owner, who is in NAMA, Mr Tuohy would like to pay rent and arrears"

is that not fair enough,what use is having a perfect home empty.There are plenty worse crimes going on right under our noses that we are willing to turn a blind eye to,so this i really dont mind.

Custardpi

Fair play to him. By the sounds of things he's actually making the house more habitable, which means that the value of it has probably increased slightly, so he's really doing the owner a huge favour. Far better to have the an asset being maintained & producing a small amount of income than letting it sit idle & rot. Maybe he is a bit of a chancer, but compared to some of the other chancers in what we once laughably called the "housing market" he's fairly low on the scale.

ringadingding

drdeadlift wrote: »

"learned the name of the owner, who is in NAMA, Mr Tuohy would like the social welfare system to pay rent and arrears"

is that not fair enough,what use is having a perfect home empty.There are plenty worse crimes going on right under our noses that we are willing to turn a blind eye to,so this i really dont mind.

If it was a guy who was working, struggling and had kids living with him, i'd probably be less cynical, a chancer with pretty grown up kids, on disability from stress, he has been on the housing list for 5 years for a good reason probably, like not having kids living with him.

Im not saying these houses shouldn't be used, but I feel i can see through this guy, a blagger IMO

ShadowHearth

So he was healthy enough to put floring, paint the house, clean it, sort out electrical problems etc...

... But he is too depressed to work...


Feck off will ya...

drdeadlift

ringadingding wrote: »

If it was a guy who was working, struggling and had kids living with him, i'd probably be less cynical, a chancer with pretty grown up kids, on disability from stress, he has been on the housing list for 5 years for a good reason probably, like not having kids living with him.

Im not saying these houses shouldn't be used, but I feel i can see through this guy, a blagger IMO

A very pro active waster.I will not begrudge him for what he did.Most wasters on the housing list just walk to the post office and back on a Wednesday.

By the time nama do anything with these houses they will be fit for nothing.A better question would be what is nama doing?

Capt'n Midnight

squatters rights ?

you mean Adverse possession

Thought you had to be resident for at least 12 years and the clock gets reset if you have been told to leave by the owner.


http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/pdf/2009/en.act.2009.0027.pdf Page 122

The period of long user, which under current law,
especially the 1832 Act, varies in length and according to whether an
`
easement or profit a prendre is being claimed, is now a single period
of 12 years. This coincides with the period for adverse possession
claims under the Statute of Limitations 1957. However, in order to
protect State authorities which own tracts of land, including the fore-
shore, every part of which it is impracticable to keep under constant
supervision, extended periods of user are required — a minimum of
30 years and 60 years in the case of claims relating to the foreshore.

Haven't had a full look at the LAND AND CONVEYANCING LAW REFORM ACT 2009 to see if this has changed

1966

ShadowHearth wrote: »

So he was healthy enough to put floring, paint the house, clean it, sort out electrical problems etc...

... But he is too depressed to work...


Feck off will ya...

Yeah but the sight if his 29 yr old playing in the garden must lift his spirits!

bop1977

"There are around 250 houses in the estate, with a further 20 unfinished. Around 30 of the completed homes are unoccupied."

how is this a ghost estate, 220 occupied houses out of 250 is hardly a ghost estate? more lazy journalism from those idiots in the indo.

fran oconnor

drdeadlift wrote: »

"learned the name of the owner, who is in NAMA, Mr Tuohy would like to pay rent and arrears"

is that not fair enough,what use is having a perfect home empty.There are plenty worse crimes going on right under our noses that we are willing to turn a blind eye to,so this i really dont mind.

Same here i don't mind either, once he's made to pay a rent to NAMA, the very people that built the house he's living in have got away with bigger crimes..

krudler

Why can't I have a free house?


oh thats right, I work, pay tax and live within my means, silly me thats the wrong way to get ahead in this country.

westendgirlie

realies wrote: »

And what about the people in simlar houses down the road who are up to there necks in mortgages, Is it fair on them ?

I never said it was fair. I'm one of those homeowners. Road unfinished and now the street lights are off. But all houses are occupied bar one. Council only take interest in taking over public areas when there is an election looming. There are homeowners who are a lot worse off than me.

The estate that the man lives in. Are there any homeowners in it? If not, why should it affect other estates? Surely a finished estate in the neighbourhood helps the value of your own home? Whether it's a council estate or not.

fran oconnor

westendgirlie wrote: »

I never said it was fair. I'm one of those homeowners. Road unfinished and now the street lights are off. But all houses are occupied bar one. Council only take interest in taking over public areas when there is an election looming. There are homeowners who are a lot worse off than me.

The estate that the man lives in. Are there any homeowners in it? If not, why should it affect other estates? Surely a finished estate in the neighbourhood helps the value of your own home? Whether it's a council estate or not.

They will more than likely end up being council estates in the long run now anyway..

drdeadlift

krudler wrote: »

Why can't I have a free house?


oh thats right, I work, pay tax and live within my means, silly me thats the wrong way to get ahead in this country.

Well seems like you can,off you go.If your struggling just replicate what he has done.Moaning wont yield any result.

Sooopie

westendgirlie wrote: »

I never said it was fair. I'm one of those homeowners. Road unfinished and now the street lights are off. But all houses are occupied bar one. Council only take interest in taking over public areas when there is an election looming. There are homeowners who are a lot worse off than me.

The estate that the man lives in. Are there any homeowners in it? If not, why should it affect other estates? Surely a finished estate in the neighbourhood helps the value of your own home? Whether it's a council estate or not.

I'm sure the home owners are only too delighted to have a squatter with his brood of kids setting up camp down the road from them

fran oconnor

Sooopie wrote: »

I'm sure the home owners are only too delighted to have a squatter with his brood of kids setting up camp down the road from them

Not really setting up camp now is it, its a fine three bed that he has put work into, i'd rather see that than the place go to ****e. Don't be so bitter becuase you's bought into something that went tits up.

Sooopie

fran oconnor wrote: »

Not really setting up camp now is it, its a fine three bed that he has put work into, i'd rather see that than the place go to ****e. Don't be so bitter becuase you's bought into something that went tits up.

I didn't mate

Was it his 3 bed? Nope. What has he contributed to society? Nothing.

He's yet another scrounger that you & me are paying for, and I'm kinda sick of it.

Sunnyisland

westendgirlie wrote: »

I never said it was fair. I'm one of those homeowners. Road unfinished and now the street lights are off. But all houses are occupied bar one. Council only take interest in taking over public areas when there is an election looming. There are homeowners who are a lot worse off than me.

The estate that the man lives in. Are there any homeowners in it? If not, why should it affect other estates? Surely a finished estate in the neighbourhood helps the value of your own home? Whether it's a council estate or not.

I know westendgirlie you didn't say it was fair,But there is nothing fair about this,On one hand we have thousands of people on housing lists waiting to be housed and also an ever increasing homeless problem and on the other hand we have a thousands of people who worked there butt of to get mortgages and buy houses yet someone a few doors down can maybe walk into a house like theres for nothing. If everybody did what this man has done i can see big problems happening down the road.:)

fran oconnor

Sooopie wrote: »

I didn't mate

Was it his 3 bed? Nope. What has he contributed to society? Nothing.

He's yet another scrounger that you & me are paying for, and I'm kinda sick of it.

He is a scrounger, but at the end of the day, its his, and our right to a home, in may ways its not his fault its the system that lets people get away with going on the sick.

westendgirlie

Just read further along this thread and the house he has is in an occupied estate. Is that correct?

I really don't know what the solution to this is. If I was living in an estate of 50 houses and only 10 were occupied, I would love if they flattened the other houses. Would bring the value of the other houses (at some future date) up.

fran oconnor

realies wrote: »

on the other hand we have a thousands of people who worked there butt of to get mortgages and buy houses yet someone a few doors down can maybe walk into a house like theres for nothing

Its happening anyway, and has been going on for years even during the boom, social housing has always been there. A mate of mine bought a new house and three months later someone got the same place as his next door for nothing, what could he do??.

Sooopie

fran oconnor wrote: »

He is a scrounger, but at the end of the day, its his, and our right to a home, in may ways its not his fault its the system that lets people get away with going on the sick.

If everyone did what he did, as its their "right" to have a home - tell me, where would our society end up?

drdeadlift

fran oconnor wrote: »

He is a scrounger, but at the end of the day, its his, and our right to a home, in may ways its not his fault its the system that lets people get away with going on the sick.

The system doesnt come into it.The system is dysfunctional and has been for a long time.He has made an effort unlike so many single mothers too ......

Cavehill Red

I declare the stampede for free empty gaffs open!

Seriously, though, this is the new paradigm - now we know what houses in Ireland are worth - pretty much fuck all.

What does this mean for those who bought and are up to their oxters in neg equity? It means you've been financially raped. Take that up with the banks (who you bailed out, but who won't be bailing you out.)

We have a problem of homelessness and we have thousands of empty gaffs. It shouldn't be rocket science to put the two together, but it must be done in some sort of ordered fashion, not with oul junkies jumping to the front of the queue so their 29 year olds have a garden to play in.

Dotrel

Bloody scrounger.

OT (slightly diff scenario). Say I have a house bought and paid for and I decide to take off somewhere for a year and leave the place unoccupied. Does that give the right for some chancer to move in and live there?

drdeadlift

Sooopie wrote: »

If everyone did what he did, as its their "right" to have a home - tell me, where would our society end up?

Every body would have a place to call home?

ThinkAboutIt

LOL. You couldnt have made up a better story to troll Boards.ie!

nicowa

fran oconnor wrote: »

They will more than likely end up being council estates in the long run now anyway..

The council - and HSE - don't seem to be taking on new houses. Himself owns a property that he bought off a cousin to save him from bankruptcy (small developer doesn't get the big hand-outs). While the house had been rented it's empty at the moment. He offered it to the HSE just to have something coming in and someone living there but they turned him down. So I don't see that the councils or the HSE (who deal with the social housing as well) are doing anything about those on the lists.

Sooopie

drdeadlift wrote: »

The system doesnt come into it.The system is dysfunctional and has been for a long time.He has made an effort unlike so many single mothers too ......[/QUOTE]

with his 7 kids I'm willing to guess he's contributed to the single mother epidemic too!

fran oconnor

Sooopie wrote: »

fran oconnor wrote: »

He is a scrounger, but at the end of the day, its his, and our right to a home, in may ways its not his fault its the system that lets people get away with going on the sick.

If everyone did what he did, as its their "right" to have a home - tell me, where would our society end up?

In even bigger ****, but if he's out on the sick and can't work, what can he do?.. unfortunately no matter what happens some people are not going to be happy.

Sooopie

fran oconnor wrote: »

In even bigger ****, but if he's out on the sick and can't work, what can he do?.. unfortunately no matter what happens some people are not going to be happy.

he should have had a rake load of kids... oh wait,

donalg1

westendgirlie wrote: »

realies wrote: »

And what about the people in simlar houses down the road who are up to there necks in mortgages, Is it fair on them ?

I never said it was fair. I'm one of those homeowners. Road unfinished and now the street lights are off. But all houses are occupied bar one. Council only take interest in taking over public areas when there is an election looming. There are homeowners who are a lot worse off than me.

The estate that the man lives in. Are there any homeowners in it? If not, why should it affect other estates? Surely a finished estate in the neighbourhood helps the value of your own home? Whether it's a council estate or not.

What's an election got to do with the council taking over an estate? The council isn't running in the election? And why would they take over a half finished estate so they can pay millions in finishing and maintenance?