F*&king Horse Transporters

RandomAccess

I was stuck behind one of these Horse transport trucks this evening, the jerk had plenty opportunity to pull in and let the massive tailback past but he just wouldn't.

We got to the roundabout at Ardee heading towards the M1, plenty opportunity to pull in and still didn't. Is it possible to report drivers for seriously holding up traffic?

More than likely heading to Dundalk AW track, pain in the hole indeed, most of these lads are courteous enough, how slow was he going? I can't see a complaint being investigated really, once you are progressing reasonably than no harm done.

maygitchell

Horsebox!

Damokc

maygitchell wrote: »

Horsebox!

no proper race horses are taking in horse boxes!:rolleyes:

Ken.

Isn't it now against the rules for lorries,tractors and other big vehicles to pull in to the hard shoulder to let traffic by?.

Damokc

Damokc wrote: »

no proper race horses are taking in horse boxes!:rolleyes:

What do you mean by proper? Plenty of race horses are transported in horse boxes, some trainers in the NH game only have a few yokes in training.

CiniO

lucyfur09 wrote: »

Isn't it now against the rules for lorries,tractors and other big vehicles to pull in to the hard shoulder to let traffic by?.

It is against the "unwritten rules" if they don't.


PS. Answering your question - no, it isn't against the rules.
It's perfectly legal to move to hard shoulder to allow someone to overtake.

Every vehicle going slower than average traffic should be actually doing it - not only trucks, buses and tractors.
It's not about size of vehicle, but about speed.

I see very often trucks moving left to allow others to overtake, but I barely see car drivers doing it, even though they drive slower than mentioned trucks.

Damokc

RoverJames wrote: »

What do you mean by proper? Plenty of race horses are transported in horse boxes, some trainers in the NH game only have a few yokes in training.

was just trying to get across the point to maygitchell that not all horse transporters are horse boxes.thats all.;)

what is the law with this though? do they HAVE to pull in or is it up to them?

Of course they can pull in, driving in the hard shoulder is not on though. If the driver was doing 45/50 mph I can see why he wouldn't bother though, in fairness he is going somewhere too and may have lost some time loading up pr whatever.

Paparazzo

They always have "Horses" written on them. Is there a reason for this or is it because they just like telling people they're horsey people?

Paparazzo

Paparazzo wrote: »

They always have "Horses" written on them. Is there a reason for this or is it because they just like telling people they're horsey people?

So that folks will drive with that in mind, you wouldn't be swinging a horse transporter around a junction in the way you would a load of kitchen rolls

Some consideration towards them is appropriate really.

Ken.

CiniO wrote: »

It is against the "unwritten rules" if they don't.


PS. Answering your question - no, it isn't against the rules.
It's perfectly legal to move to hard shoulder to allow someone to overtake.

Every vehicle going slower than average traffic should be actually doing it - not only trucks, buses and tractors.
It's not about size of vehicle, but about speed.

I see very often trucks moving left to allow others to overtake, but I barely see car drivers doing it, even though they drive slower than mentioned trucks.

I stand corrected. I thought in the back of my mind i remembered hearing something on the radio a few years ago about it after some truck ploughed a car out of it that had pulled in to let traffic by.(Car had broken down or something),

Cookie_Monster

Is it not the opposite that they are obliged to pull over periodically, there was that case a while ago where some tractor driver got done for causing a tailback and not taking opportunities to pull over and let traffic pass.

Now maybe the tractor would move much much slower than a horse transporter so may not quite be the same story.

RandomAccess

RoverJames wrote: »

...
Some consideration towards them is appropriate really.

They will get what they give. In this case they pissed an awful lot of people off.

RandomAccess

RoverJames wrote: »

Of course they can pull in, driving in the hard shoulder is not on though. If the driver was doing 45/50 mph I can see why he wouldn't bother though, in fairness he is going somewhere too and may have lost some time loading up pr whatever.

Theres a series of three roundabouts through Ardee where he slowed to a halt anyway so he could have waited literally under a minute and all the traffic would have passed. And there were plenty straight stretches of road before that point as well if where he could have moved in to the hard shoulder, which I know is frowned upon by many but my point is he had plenty opportunity to let off the tailback.

45/50mph is just not good enough for a national route. If they want to go that slow they should leave others pass.

opinion guy

lucyfur09 wrote: »

Isn't it now against the rules for lorries,tractors and other big vehicles to pull in to the hard shoulder to let traffic by?.

Now ? I thought it was always against the rules.

Opinicus

There was a farmer put off the road a few years ago for holding up traffic.There was a garda car in the tailback. This was on a minor road. He passed several places where he could have pulled in. 15 or 20 mph is a little different from 45/50 mph though


========News story here========

RandomAccess

RandomAccess wrote: »

..........

45/50mph is just not good enough for a national route. If they want to go that slow they should leave others pass.

If the speed limit is 100kph that 45/50 mph is perfectly good enough, the speed limits are just that, limits not targets, driving a horse transporter at 100kph isn't on really.

RandomAccess

RoverJames wrote: »

If the speed limit is 100kph that 45/50 mph is perfectly good enough, the speed limits are just that, limits not targets, driving a horse transporter at 100kph isn't on really.

I never said he should speed up.

RandomAccess

RandomAccess wrote: »

I never said he should speed up.

If he's doing 50 he shouldn't really be having to pull in every so often either.

Cookie_Monster

ok, doing 80kph (50 mph) in a 100 zone isn't too bad. The real offender here is likely the 2-3 cars directly behind him that refuse to overtake but leave no room for others to clear them before clearing the truck.

Wexfordian

If its a towed horse box its restricted to 80kpm, if its pretty much any rigid horse transporter its probably over 3500kg and restricted to 80kpm. As for pulling over, while its nice when they do, remember they are carrying livestock, and race horses are not the most robust of livestock at that. Most drivers would understandably be a bit wary of making unnecessary manoeuvres if they are obeying all the rules.

RandomAccess

Wexfordian wrote: »

If its a towed horse box its restricted to 80kpm, if its pretty much any rigid horse transporter its probably over 3500kg and restricted to 80kpm. As for pulling over, while its nice when they do, remember they are carrying livestock, and race horses are not the most robust of livestock at that. Most drivers would understandably be a bit wary of making unnecessary manoeuvres if they are obeying all the rules.

It was a truck, he had plenty places to pull in and let off the tailback. He was already stopping at the roundabouts anyway! (he slowed super gradually so dobbin wouldn't keel over)

Its not like I'm asking him to swerve out of the way, he's just being a **** with traffic queued up to the horizon behind him when he had ample opportunity to relieve it.

The idea that it is solely the fault of the car behind him is rubbish, those roads are crawling with bloody speed cameras so overtaking swiftly without going over the limit becomes a problem.

Also someone said "if he's doing 50 he shouldn't have to pull in every so often either". I'm saying he should when the opportunity to do so arises, whats so controversial about that.. its pretty common sense.

-Corkie-

There was no reason he couldnt have pulled inside the yellow line for a few seconds to give the cars a chance to pass..

CiniO

RandomAccess wrote: »

It was a truck, he had plenty places to pull in and let off the tailback. He was already stopping at the roundabouts anyway! (he slowed super gradually so dobbin wouldn't keel over)

Its not like I'm asking him to swerve out of the way, he's just being a **** with traffic queued up to the horizon behind him when he had ample opportunity to relieve it.

The idea that it is solely the fault of the car behind him is rubbish, those roads are crawling with bloody speed cameras so overtaking swiftly without going over the limit becomes a problem.

Also someone said "if he's doing 50 he shouldn't have to pull in every so often either". I'm saying he should when the opportunity to do so arises, whats so controversial about that.. its pretty common sense.

Assuming half of people who write on this forum don't know if it's legal to pull over or not (and it mostly people interested in driving, rotr, etc), how do you expect a random horse transporter driver to know, if he is legally allowed to do it or not?

Maybe he thought it was illegal, and was afraid to get a fine.

-Corkie-

CiniO wrote: »

Assuming half of people who write on this forum don't know if it's legal to pull over or not (and it mostly people interested in driving, rotr, etc), how do you expect a random horse transporter driver to know, if he is legally allowed to do it or not?

Maybe he thought it was illegal, and was afraid to get a fine.

If he has a truck licence he should know dam well. Every driver must do a cpc course every year and be familiar with the ROTR..

Its illegal to drive on a motorway hard shoulder but its Ok on every other road..

opinion guy

RoverJames wrote: »

If the speed limit is 100kph that 45/50 mph is perfectly good enough, the speed limits are just that, limits not targets, driving a horse transporter at 100kph isn't on really.

No they are targets. Going significantly lower than the speed limit is dangerous for everyone else. Cars with trailers have a different target however.

opinion guy

opinion guy wrote: »

No they are targets. Going significantly lower than the speed limit is dangerous for everyone else. Cars with trailers have a different target however.

Hence why my post said doing 50 is good enough, and they are limits, not targets, hence the name.

opinion guy

Have you not heard of 'failure to progress' ?

They are targets. Or should be.

If you can't drive a normal car (without trailer) at the speed limit in normal conditions, you should not be on the road.

gk5000

The guards could (and should) warn him for "driving without due care and attention", which would be applicable if he causes a severe tailback.

Once stuck behind two of these travelling closely in a convoy, and it was very difficult and dangerous to get past. Total disregard for other road users.

opinion guy

opinion guy wrote: »

Have you not heard of 'failure to progress' ?

They are targets. Or should be.

If you can't drive a normal car (without trailer) at the speed limit in normal conditions, you should not be on the road.

DOing 50 mph on a national road is not failure to progress regardless of what you are driving.

-Corkie-

I remember the old N8 between Cahir and Mitchelstown these yokes would be always on it. They would always hog the white line and never pull in whilst travelling at 60KPH.

CiniO

-Corkie- wrote: »

If he has a truck licence he should know dam well. Every driver must do a cpc course every year and be familiar with the ROTR..

Its illegal to drive on a motorway hard shoulder but its Ok on every other road..

Of course he should know them well, the same as any other driver.
But unfortunately that's not the case.
I went through 3 CPC modules so far, and there wasn't anything mentioned about it. Neither in any of CPC booklets.

So fact that someone has a truck licence, doesn't make him any more like to know it than any other driver.


Even more confusing for people is that in UK driving on hard shoulder to let someone overtake is illegal. It makes confusion for people over here.


PS. I'm not trying to justify the horsetransporter driver.
I'm just mentioning, that most drivers wouldn't know it's legal to move on hard shoulder to let someone go.
From my experience of driving, is that trucks and buses usually do move, while slow car drivers usually don't.
Obviously most truck and bus drivers are professional, and they know rules of the road better, but it doesn't justify regular car drivers from knowing the rules of the road.

opinion guy

RoverJames wrote: »

DOing 50 mph on a national road is not failure to progress regardless of what you are driving.

Why not ?
If its safe to do 100kph then that is what you should be doing

opinion guy

opinion guy wrote: »

Why not ?
If its safe to do 100kph then that is what you should be doing

TAKe it up with the AGS by your reckoning there would never be a need to overtake another car.

polod

RandomAccess wrote: »

It was a truck, he had plenty places to pull in and let off the tailback. He was already stopping at the roundabouts anyway! (he slowed super gradually so dobbin wouldn't keel over)

Its not like I'm asking him to swerve out of the way, he's just being a **** with traffic queued up to the horizon behind him when he had ample opportunity to relieve it.

The idea that it is solely the fault of the car behind him is rubbish, those roads are crawling with bloody speed cameras so overtaking swiftly without going over the limit becomes a problem.

Also someone said "if he's doing 50 he shouldn't have to pull in every so often either". I'm saying he should when the opportunity to do so arises, whats so controversial about that.. its pretty common sense.

I would have say get over yourself ...no offence meant now
... but this happens all the time especailly with lorries and none of them ever pull in (single lane ) doing 80 kmh on 100 kmh roads ....why didn't you try some crazy overtaking if your that important :pac:

opinion guy

RoverJames wrote: »

TAKe it up with the AGS

??

AGS do on occasion stop people for this kind of thing

cruizer101

-Corkie- wrote: »

If he has a truck licence he should know dam well. Every driver must do a cpc course every year and be familiar with the ROTR..

Not disagreeing that he should know the ROTR, however he doesn't necessarily have to do a CPC.
From driver theory website 'You must pass the Driver CPC theory test before you can apply for the driving and practical tests, if you intend to drive a bus/truck professionally (for a living).'

The driving the truck had to be the main part of you business for you to have to do CPC. It gives an example of a plumber who uses a truck to transport materials and tools, he doesn't need a CPC so I doubt horsey box drivers need it either.

-Corkie-

cruizer101 wrote: »

Not disagreeing that he should know the ROTR, however he doesn't necessarily have to do a CPC.
From driver theory website 'You must pass the Driver CPC theory test before you can apply for the driving and practical tests, if you intend to drive a bus/truck professionally (for a living).'

The driving the truck had to be the main part of you business for you to have to do CPC. It gives an example of a plumber who uses a truck to transport materials and tools, he doesn't need a CPC so I doubt horsey box drivers need it either.

Well thats true but he should still be courteous to other road users and leave them off. Most of them horsey boxes are driven by thick old farmers anyway who get a thrill of holding people up.

opinion guy

opinion guy wrote: »

??

AGS do on occasion stop people for this kind of thing

FOr doing 50 in a 60 ? Dream on

NewApproach

CiniO wrote: »

It is against the "unwritten rules" if they don't.


PS. Answering your question - no, it isn't against the rules.
It's perfectly legal to move to hard shoulder to allow someone to overtake.

Every vehicle going slower than average traffic should be actually doing it - not only trucks, buses and tractors.
It's not about size of vehicle, but about speed.

I see very often trucks moving left to allow others to overtake, but I barely see car drivers doing it, even though they drive slower than mentioned trucks.

Huh?

The average speed of the traffic is whatever speed the truck/lorry is doing. How can cars in behind be going above the average without ploughing into the back to the car infront, if noone can overtake?

Anyway nothing wrong with this IMO. Have some patience OP.

BrianD3

The problem I see with these horse lorry drivers is while they have a licence to drive a truck, most are not professional truck drivers. They lack professionalism, competence and experience and their main concern is the comfort of their horse rather than other road users.

I'm not surprised that they don't pull into hard shoulder or make "unnecessary" maneouvres given the way they also straightline bends, cut across junctions, refuse to give way on narrow roads, don't stop at stop signs etc. The idea seems to be use the wheel and other controls as little as possible - and if that results in cutting up or running someone else off the road then f*ck them as they're not worth as much as a horse.

Many of those towing horse box trailers are also poor, inconsiderate drivers who also don't want to turn the steering wheel, travel in bunched up convoys with no space in between, won't pull over etc. I'd also question whether have the correct licence to tow a horsebox.

RandomAccess

polod wrote: »

I would have say get over yourself ...no offence meant now
... but this happens all the time especailly with lorries and none of them ever pull in (single lane ) doing 80 kmh on 100 kmh roads ....why didn't you try some crazy overtaking if your that important :pac:

Some taken.

You totally miss the point (intentionally?) If I was driving a vehicle that was causing a huge tailback then when the opportunity presents itself such as at a roundabout I would pull over and let off the buildup of traffic.

As to that "if your that important" comment, well what makes him so important that he gets to hold up loads of other road users. For the record I wasn't hurrying to get anywhere but that is totally beside the point!!! Sometimes I think people just take the opposite position on here for no good reason.

Justjens

lucyfur09 wrote: »

Isn't it now against the rules for lorries,tractors and other big vehicles to pull in to the hard shoulder to let traffic by?.

opinion guy wrote: »

Now ? I thought it was always against the rules.

Only if it's a solid yellow line, ie. on motorways and approaching junctions on N roads, no restrictions if it's a broken yellow.

corktina

opinion guy wrote: »

Why not ?
If its safe to do 100kph then that is what you should be doing

absolutely not. The ROAD may be safe for 100 km/h but that doesnt mean the driver or the vehicle or the load is. Horses for courses (pun intended)

Paparazzo

RoverJames wrote: »

So that folks will drive with that in mind, you wouldn't be swinging a horse transporter around a junction in the way you would a load of kitchen rolls

Some consideration towards them is appropriate really.

What about cattle, sheep or pigs? I mean it's obvious they're horse boxes or horse transporters, but it's the only animal they seem to "advertise" on the side.

NewApproach

Paparazzo wrote: »

What about cattle, sheep or pigs?

There usually only going to be slaughtered so don't really matter as much don't you think? To be fair some of these horses are more valuable than the lorrys that carry them. I think it is reasonable to show some extra consideration for these vehicles on the road.

corktina

do they have special transporters (or as I call them, Horse Boxes :rolleyes:) for horses that arent F*&king ?

sh1tstirrer

-Corkie- wrote: »

cruizer101 wrote: »

Not disagreeing that he should know the ROTR, however he doesn't necessarily have to do a CPC.
From driver theory website 'You must pass the Driver CPC theory test before you can apply for the driving and practical tests, if you intend to drive a bus/truck professionally (for a living).'

The driving the truck had to be the main part of you business for you to have to do CPC. It gives an example of a plumber who uses a truck to transport materials and tools, he doesn't need a CPC so I doubt horsey box drivers need it either.

Well thats true but he should still be courteous to other road users and leave them off. Most of them horsey boxes are driven by thick old farmers anyway who get a thrill of holding people up.

Maybe its because thick old townies like yourself don't acknowledge them when they pull over and they say fcuk them they can stay behind.

opinion guy

corktina wrote: »

absolutely not. The ROAD may be safe for 100 km/h but that doesnt mean the driver or the vehicle or the load is. Horses for courses (pun intended)

I said normal car. Of course if they have loaded trailer then obviously aiming for the limit is dangerous. But if you have normal car without trailer or load, then there is no reason for not doing the limit on a safe road (i.e. not 100kph into a blind 90degree corner).

If someone can't handle a car on a good straight stretch of national road with hard shoulder at 100kph if thats the limit then the should not be driving.

-Corkie-

sh1tstirrer wrote: »

Maybe its because thick old townies like yourself don't acknowledge them when they pull over and they say fcuk them they can stay behind.

Firstly I am not thick secondly I am not from a town and thirdly I do acknowledge people that pull in to let me off.

I was on the N22 earlier heading towards Macroom when I noticed absolutley no traffic coming against me. About 2 minutes later I met one of these horse boxes doing about 50km/h hogging the white line with about 1 mile of traffic behind. She had her head stuck up in the air oblivious to the traffic jam behind.