Well I've finally done it..

Hermy

...today I started searching for my past. Until recently I had never given it a lot of thought as my adopted parents are the best anyone could ask for and digging up my past seemed like more trouble than it's worth. But having read the Trace Guide all that has changed. I was always lead to believe that I was not entitled to have access to my birth certificate and to discover that this is not the case was a bit of a surprise to say the least. Furthermore having read stories here and elsewhere of other peoples difficulties in gaining access to their files, medical records and even their non-identifying information made me pretty angry. Anyway, the upshot of all this is that I went into town today and got what I believe may well be mine and my birth mothers birth certificates. I have no idea what I'll do next as I wasn't expecting the wave of emotion I've been hit with since. I suppose next will be to put together a letter to Patrick's Guild requesting my non-identifying information and see what happens.
In the meantime I'd just like to say thanks to the contributors to this forum. While I've been lurking the various posts I've read have been a great help in getting me this far.:)

The_Conductor

Hermy- I'm thrilled for you.

If/when you decide to make your next move, perhaps you can post back here, and we might have some ideas of avenues that you could explore.

Do write off to SPG- regardless of whether you think you have the right cert or not- it really is a case of double checking everything.

I remember when I found my birthcert- I went all light headed and giddy- I thought I was going to start jumping up and down

Best wishes,

Shane

tyview

Thats great news Hermy! Best of luck with your next move and keep us posted on how things go. I remember finally having my cert in my hands, it was a very weird but exciting feeling..

whitemoon

Good for you Hermy,

As previously posted I got all that info for my husband plus his BM's marriage cert and details of 3 siblings in a very short space of time. Also her current address but we are now waiting for St Patricks to get back to us re trace and contact which I believe will take about 4/5 months. Initially we felt great and upset at the same time when we pieced all the info together but now just anxious for an outcome. Feel so close but yet so far away. This forum as been invaluable to me as I really had no idea where to begin but the advice and help here was just super. Best of luck.

Hermy

Well here's the first question. My cert says I was born in St. James's. Should I presume that that is the James's Hospital on James Street or could it refer to somewhere else in Dublin?

The_Conductor

Hermy wrote: »

Well here's the first question. My cert says I was born in St. James's. Should I presume that that is the James's Hospital on James Street or could it refer to somewhere else in Dublin?

Not sure on this one. St. James' hospital doesn't have a maternity unit- St. James and the Mater habitually use the National Maternity Hospital- Holles Street for neonatal/delivery and postnatal services.

Perhaps some other posters may be able to shed some light on this?

whitemoon

Depends on when you were born. My aunt was a nurse in St James and she also gave birth to her 3 children there. That would have been in the mid 70's. So it is quite possible that you were born there.

Hermy

I think whitemoon has hit the nail on the head.:)

EDIT: Welcome to Boards whitemoon.

whitemoon

Thanks Hermy,

Glad if that was of help to you.:) Every little bit of info matters and fits into big picture. I made a long shot phone call on Fri to the church on the Navan road beside where St Patricks home was, (my huband was born there) and asked about a baptismal cert for him. The lady called me back this morn and said that she did have a record of his baptism and I am going to pick up a copy of it tomorrow! He was delighted when I told him because he never knew.

Hermy

That's great whitemoon. Can I ask what type of info is contained on a baptismal cert?

whitemoon

Just got it. Nothing really of any significance on it other than the date he was baptized and the name of the church. The name on the baptismal cert issued to me is actually the name that his mam and dad gave him when they adopted him at two and a half, not the name his BM gave him when born! Nice to have it though, he now knows where he was baptized and that it was the day after he was born. Interestingly enough they have my name on it too and the date and place of our marriage !!

Hermy

Okay so. I won't go hunting for it now. Thanks again.:)

Hermy

whitemoon wrote: »

Interestingly enough they have my name on it too and the date and place of our marriage !!

How did that happen?

whitemoon

Dont actually know how they had that info cos we never knew what church he had been baptized in to begin with. Must be central church records although they did not know where or when he had been confirmed. May have read on another thread that when an adopted person gets married in church, the priest has access to original documents? really not sure.

Hermy

Terrible that strangers may have that access while those who need it most are denied.

lastminute

Hermy, I am very keen to find my birth cert as I only have my adopted one. How did you go about finding it. I was born in St Patrick's Home, 1977. Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

Hermy

Hi lastminute,

First thing I'll say is that I'm not 100% certain that I've found my birth cert but I'm fairly sure that it's the right one but anyway, here's what I done...
I went to the General Registers Office in the Irish Life Mall armed with my original first name and my birth date. I requested the index books for the relevant year and searched them cover to cover looking for any entries with my birth date and christian name, paying particular attention to any entries where the surname and mothers maiden name were the same i.e. no marriage.
I found maybe half a dozen possible entries but only one that ticked all the boxes. There's a small form to fill out with the reference number from the index book which you hand to the staff member at the desk and minutes later you have a photocopy of the relevant entry from the Register of Births.
I happened to know my mothers age when I was born so I also have a copy of what I believe is her birth cert. When searching if you're not certain about dates you may need to search more than one year so if you can bring someone with you that will help.
If you haven't already I recommend that you read the Trace Guides in the sticky at the top of the page. That's how I got this far.
Best of luck with your search and post back here if you need more help or to let us know how you fared.
All the best.:)

lastminute

Thanks Hermy, not sure whether to just try search through the adoption board.
Thanks again.

The_Conductor

Hi Lastminute- there is no harm whatsoever in initiating a search via the Adoption Authority to run concurrently with your own search. You do need to keep in mind the timeframes involved though- I think their current backlog is a little under 2 years long.

If you follow the steps in the traceguide and then report back here, you will most probably be offered relevant advice on possible next steps.

Finding your original birth cert is the first step on a road to discovering who you are- it can be a confusing journey- with many different stepping stones, each further piece of information you get may unlock further steps for you to take. Its impossible to suggest that its either straightforward, or convoluted- it differs for everyone .

The very best of good luck to you in your search.

As Hermy has suggested- if you haven't already gone through the traceguides that he has linked to- now would be a good time to do so.

Kind regards,

Shane

Dee42

Hermy wrote: »

Well here's the first question. My cert says I was born in St. James's. Should I presume that that is the James's Hospital on James Street or could it refer to somewhere else in Dublin?

St. James Hospital in Dublin had a maternity unitw hich operated I believe until some time in the mid eighties

No1J

whitemoon wrote: »

Thanks Hermy,

Glad if that was of help to you.:) Every little bit of info matters and fits into big picture. I made a long shot phone call on Fri to the church on the Navan road beside where St Patricks home was, (my huband was born there) and asked about a baptismal cert for him. The lady called me back this morn and said that she did have a record of his baptism and I am going to pick up a copy of it tomorrow! He was delighted when I told him because he never knew.

I rang the same church and asked about getting my Baptismal cert and was told "no problem have it here" mentioned during the call that I was in the middle of an adoption search and it was like who shot JFK, "Oh sorry I thought you were, sorry my hands are tied, I cant give out that information".
Just wondered what my name is.:(

nudger

I had some info from Park house about my BM but not my name.
Contacted them around Christmas and got a phone call a few weeks ago telling me that my 1st and 2nd names were the same ones I already had, is this common?
Any way went into Abbey st today and it took 10 minutes to find my Birth cert and BM full name, happy days.
Problem, BM name is not the same as the one from Park House, close, like Mary/Maureen,June/Joesphine but county/age didn't work out either.
Who to believe, well the chances of 2 babies being born with the same first and second name on my date of birth in St Pat's, think I'll go with info on the Birth Cert, not Park House.
But this throws up a few things, my BM does not want contact, when I contacted Park House some time ago looking for medical info as I had a serious complaint and doctor wanted my family history. told them my illness and the answer came back "Not in the family, don't contact again"
Could they be protecting her I.D.?
So I guess I will contact Park House again to see what they say now that I have the right name for my BM.
Anyone got any ideas.
Thanks.

Hermy

I've been taking my time over this but I'd really like to take the next step forward with my search for my birth mother. Because I have my date of birth, original christian name and my mothers age at my birth I'm as certain as can be that the birth certs I've found are mine and my birth mothers but I'd like to get something to confirm this and then ultimately I'd like to make contact whether by letter or face to face.
So what should I do next? I'm assuming that the first step in the trace guide doesn't apply to me as I know from where I was adopted. The second step may help confirm or otherwise whether I have the right certs but what happens then. How do I go about arranging contact? I maybe getting ahead of myself but I would really appreciate it if someone could describe how this aspect of my search may pan out.

Hermy

What I'm thinking about at this stage is whether it's just about using my own initiative to find out what I want. From reading recent posts that seems to be the case and as an amateur genealogist that would not pose much difficulty for me.
However I know I should probably exhaust the proper channels first but I baulk at the thought of having to deal with nuns. The mere notion of the church having claim to information that's rightfully mine angers me so and it's just a fight I don't wan to have!

schoolmouse

Hi Hermy
don't let go of the fight just because of the involvement of the church as the state is just as guilty in the way they put obstacles in the way also.Any fight to a persons identity is a fight worth fighting, this I know, keep a cool head when dealing with these people and the more they try to railroad you the more you should pester them, in the end they will give in just to be rid of you.

Hermy

The point is I don't want to deal with them.
Both church and state are guilty of appalling cruelty for which they answerable to no-one.
I'd prefer to rely on my own initiative to get what's rightfully mine.
Hopefully later this week I'll get the ball rolling again.

schoolmouse

Unfortunately you will have to deal with one or the other in order to achieve your goal and I have said before that both Church and State are equally responsible. You don't have to go it alone as you have many friends here at Board's to help you in any way they can with support and a listening ear no matter what lies in the future. I wish you every success on your voyage of discovery and will be with you in spirit all the way as well as in my Prayer's.

PS (hope is the one thing that will help you to achieve your goal so never let it die)

Hermy

schoolmouse wrote: »

Unfortunately you will have to deal with one or the other in order to achieve your goal...

Thanks for your thoughts schoolmouse but why the above?
I reckon I could find my mother without sending letters to the authorities.
I also think it would allow me to maintain more control over things.
Maybe I'm just showing my ignorance - what do you think?

snowman224

Hermy wrote: »

Thanks for your thoughts schoolmouse but why the above?
I reckon I could find my mother without sending letters to the authorities.
I also think it would allow me to maintain more control over things.
Maybe I'm just showing my ignorance - what do you think?

I'd really recommend using a 3rd party Hermy. Its better for everyone involved.
Just making direct contact is not really advisable. You've no visibility of current circumstances of the other person and it can be risky.

Hermy

snowman224 wrote: »

I'd really recommend using a 3rd party Hermy. Its better for everyone involved.
Just making direct contact is not really advisable. You've no visibility of current circumstances of the other person and it can be risky.

Don't worry - I don't intend cold calling or anything like that.
But I'd like to do my own trace first and if that doesn't work then I'll be happy to try other options.

schoolmouse

The information you require is held by either state or church and as such you have no option but to deal with one or both in order to glean the information you require. I hope this will help you to understand where I am coming from.

Hermy

schoolmouse wrote: »

The information you require is held by either state or church...

That information is sitting here beside me on the desk as I type.
All that's required now is clarification of that info and I think I can achieve this myself without getting into any undesirable or unwanted correspondence with St. Patrick's Guild. I may be proved wrong in this but for now I'm quite content to use my own resources and initiative to seek out my past. If I fail then I'll send off a letter to St. Patrick's requesting their assistance in the matter.

schoolmouse

Hi Hermy best of luck to you and I hope everything work's out the way you would like.

justagirl

Hermy wrote: »

That information is sitting here beside me on the desk as I type.
All that's required now is clarification of that info and I think I can achieve this myself without getting into any undesirable or unwanted correspondence with St. Patrick's Guild. I may be proved wrong in this but for now I'm quite content to use my own resources and initiative to seek out my past. If I fail then I'll send off a letter to St. Patrick's requesting their assistance in the matter.

Hi Hermy

Well done you on finding your information, it took me a lot longer and I went through all of the official channels (St Patricks Guild) and now 'many' years later, I am being told that the only possible birthcert that could be mine - might not be ! on my birthcert it states that I too was born in St James - that threw me as I was told I was born elsewhere - so I'm assuming my next step is to contact the hospitals. Who to believe?

I did not mean to hijack your thread Just wondered if you had continued your search by yourself?

moihugs

Hermy congrats on finding your birth cert, its a long and very emotional road. Take your time and do it at your own pace. I was also born in St James..Went last year found my birth cert and my bms and also my siblings. It has taken my bm a while to come to terms with the fact that I found her but she eventually told my siblings. It has worked out so so well they are an amazing lot and have welcomed me and my kids with open arms. You do need to consider the possibility that it might work or might not work..either way its totally emotional !! Best of luck and let us know how it goes.

schoolmouse

Hi Hermy,please remember that their are BM & BF who are looking for their children and one of the things that would help greatly is the date of birth of the person who is searching for their BM & or BF we never forget.

schoolmouse

Well done Hermy,baptismal certs normally carry the mother and fathers name and occupation so there must be other records held by the church,but being as secretive as the state they are probably well buried.I would ask to see the actual register for the dates of the baptism.Best of luck schoolmouse.

justagirl

Best of luck hope your search is going well.

Hermy

Thanks all for the continued interest. The search hasn't really gone anywhere these past few months although I haven't been looking that hard to be honest. Funny thing is I can trace my birth mothers family way back to the early 1800's but trying to find out her whereabouts now is a lot trickier than one might imagine.

schoolmouse wrote: »

Hi Hermy,please remember that their are BM & BF who are looking for their children and one of the things that would help greatly is the date of birth of the person who is searching for their BM & or BF we never forget.

I'm not sure I understand this comment schoolmouse.
Are you suggesting I post my date of birth here?

schoolmouse

Hi Hermie, it would be very useful if you even gave an age that way people who are searching from the other side would have an idea as to whether or not they should make some form of contact. Take for instance, my own adopted son was born in St Annes in 1975 so if I saw that I'd know it would be wort my while to follow it up. I hope this clears up any confusion I may have caused.

The_Conductor

Just a reminder- we request you don't post information on the board specifically or inadvertently identify another person.

I appreciate what you are saying schoolmouse- however, you have to remember that there are over 44,000 adopted people in Ireland. The peak years for adoption in Ireland were in the 1970s, peaking in 1974 before tapering off (this can be attributed to the government's decision, despite widespread condemnation by the church, to extent social welfare rights to single mothers- in 1974).

Even looking at individual institutions- is dangerous- the bigger ones will have often had multiple births on the same day.

I'm not trying to be mean- I'm just unfortunately all too familiar with false matches, and would rather you used mechanisms other than randomly tossing out dates on an internet forum, as a means for tracing one another. If you do match information- brilliant, I'm very happy for you- but I'd rather you not face the heartache of getting a wrong match, for the sake of doing a little additional detective work.

Please everyone- respect each other's privacy.

schoolmouse

It was not my intention to upset anyone so please accept my sincere apology on the matter. I take your point about personal information and will in the future give much more consideration to my posts,once again thank you for your guidance.

Hermy

In the past week I've located my birth mothers family.
Now I'm trying to remember the do's and don'ts of what happens next.
If anyone would like to advise me I'd be very grateful.:eek:

whitemoon

Hermy,

that is great news but also opens up lots more questions and what ifs?

This time last year, having identified two possible bms for my hubby and after a lot of back and forth through St Pats I took it upon myself to write an Easter card to the woman i was most convinced it was. It was a very generic card just wishing her a happy Easter and that i had hoped to have heard from her after the letter we had left for her in St pats (which she took 3 months to collect!) I gave my mobile phone number and casually asked her to call for a catch up. I felt that if card was sent to wrong person that i would get a call to say that, but nothing. A month later i sent another very inconspicuous card again and asked could she meet me for a coffee at a specific coffee shop at a specific time the following Friday.... On the Thursday my husband got a call from St Pats to say that his bm had called in and said she would not be meeting me the next day....but at least we knew we had the right person. We left another letter for her in St Pats and again she took months to collect it and still nothing. However 3.00 pm on Christmas day she phoned me!! I nearly collapsed, she said she just couldn't let another Christmas go by and wanted to know if he was ok (we had requested medical info) and I told her he was fine but would love to meet her if only once for a half hour, just to thank her for what she did 46 years ago etc. Needless to say he had a very sleepless night that night...the fact that she was thinking of him despite the lack of communication really affected him deeply. Also we knew that one of her other sons had only got married two or three days before Christmas ( its a very small world and she does not know that she moves in the same circle as my mother!! and her son is also friends on facebook with other people that i know !!) She promised to ring me again and she did about 8 weeks ago to tell me that she had been unwell but would call again in a week or two but i have heard nothing since and am baffled. Nobody in her world knows anything about hubby and i really thought that maybe she finally understood that we quite happy to keep things that way for her and was so looking forward to hearing her story.
Anyway, my advice to you is to take that step forward but be prepared for things to go in any direction, it really is impossible to know what way the ball will bounce but if you don't take the step you will spend the rest of your life wondering.

Best of luck with whatever you do.

Hermy

Up until now I've been determined to trace my birth mother. I see it as my absolute right to know and being denied that right by church and state is what has fueled my determination. But now that I think I've found her and it's nothing to do with them anymore, my determination has been replaced by trepidation.
She's not on Facebook herself so I'm looking at the pages of her siblings and their children and wondering if one of them might be a first point of contact.
Whatever happens the next step is a big one so maybe I'll just sit on this for a while and see what happens.

rinsjwind

Hi Hermy

Might I timidly suggest that now might be the time to use the admittedly deeply flawed services supplied by the agency or the state to initiate contact.

I realise and completely understand your reluctance to have anything to do with them but this sort of thing is what they do day in day out and they're not all complete a******s!!

There's no harm getting yourself on their waiting list anyway while you think things over, especially as SPG is in the process of shutting down and handing over to hse and they'll be more than happy to take you off their extensive to do list if you decide to go it alone.

If you do decide to contact solo tread carefully, you have no idea who in the family has been told what and how they might feel abut contact?

Best wishes whatever you decide.

Rins

Hermy

rinsjwind wrote: »

Might I timidly suggest that now might be the time to use the admittedly deeply flawed services supplied by the agency or the state to initiate contact.

Having made this mess the state now wants to fix it on its own terms which is not something I'm comfortable with. The months/ years long wait to hear back from them is something I couldn't deal with. Admittedly I've taken three years already but that's all been my own decision.

I realise and completely understand your reluctance to have anything to do with them but this sort of thing is what they do day in day out and they're not all complete a******s!!

I certainly don't think they're all bad. I've actually worked with one or two of them in the past who were good people. But why a social worker? What exactly is their role in all of this? So far I've been relying on the skills I've gained as a keen amateur genealogist to locate my birth mother - skills I dare say many social workers don't have.

If you do decide to contact solo tread carefully, you have no idea who in the family has been told what and how they might feel abut contact?

I can assure you I have no intention of doing anything rash and the last thing I want is to upset anyone in my attempt to locate my birth mother. Yet at the same time there's a part of me that just wants to pick up the phone, dial a number and ask the person on the other end if Ms Somebody is my mother or not. From my side of the fence that doesn't seem unreasonable just now.

schoolmouse

Hi All,
I just want to share with you the good news that I have at last found my son, it would be hard to communicate to you all the feeling that it brings as I now feel that my family is now complete. The journey has been a difficult one but well worth it, so I say to you all, not to give up as your hard work will eventually pay dividends

Hermy

That is absolutely brilliant news schoolmouse.
Well done!:)

Eamo71

whitemoon wrote: »

Depends on when you were born. My aunt was a nurse in St James and she also gave birth to her 3 children there. That would have been in the mid 70's. So it is quite possible that you were born there.

St James's was called St Kevin's Hospital back then. I was born there too and adopted from St pat's Navan Road. There was a separate section in Kevin's for the unmarried mothers as they didn't want them infecting the good, decent married women having babies :-).
apparently that section was, so I'm told, a former leprosy unit... ah Ireland.

Hermy

Eamo71 wrote: »

apparently that section was, so I'm told a former leprosy unit... ah Ireland.

That made me laugh.:o