Kidnapped Israeli soldier to be released in Hamas prisoner swap

BlaasForRafa

I'm sort of surprised that this hasn't been posted already but then I guess some people are only interested in bad news about Israel. Sergeant Gilad Shalit who was kidnapped by palestinians 5 years ago will be released in a few days time in exchange for 1000 or so palestinian prisoners, some of whom are serving life sentances for murders of Israelis. 497 prisoners will be released in the first wave next week with 500+ being released a week after.

Its a tough compromise for the Israelis but it shows their commitment to bringing back their soldiers whatever the cost.

One encouraging aspect is that Egyptian army and intelligence services were instrumental in the deal being sealed which indicates a rapprochement towards Israel.

http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/shin-bet-chief-israel-got-best-security-terms-possible-in-shalit-swap-deal-1.389551

Palestinian security prisoners to be released as part of the Gilad Shalit deal between Israel and Hamas include the murderers of kidnapped IDF soldiers Nachshon Wachsman, Ilan Sasportas and Ilan Saadon.

Other prisoners being released include the perpetrator of the Bus 405 Tel Aviv-Jerusalem attack in 1989, the terrorist who killed 10 Israelis in Wadi Harmiyeh north of Ramallah in 2002, the terrorist who brought the suicide bomber to the Sbarro restaurant in Jerusalem in 2001, and several perpetrators of the lynch in Ramallah in October 2000.

Among these prisoners, those from the West Bank will not be able to return to their homes and will be deported to the Gaza Strip or abroad.

Under the agreement, the release of Gilad Shalit is expected to take place in about a week, along with the release of 479 Palestinian security prisoners.

meditraitor

Thats great, lets hope some of the 280 CHILDREN being held in Isreali prisons are among the 1000...... and also the 264 under administrative detention, a detention which

" the lawyers do not even have access to the evidence."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestinian_prisoners_in_Israel

lastlaugh

BlaasForRafa wrote: »

I'm sort of surprised that this hasn't been posted already but then I guess some people are only interested in bad news about Israel. Sergeant Gilad Shalit who was kidnapped by palestinians 5 years ago will be released in a few days time in exchange for 1000 or so palestinian prisoners, some of whom are serving life sentances for murders of Israelis. 497 prisoners will be released in the first wave next week with 500+ being released a week after.

Wow, that's great news.

It great to think Israel values the lives of it's own citizens so much, it completely changes my perspective.

arybvtcw0eolkf

News of the release is certainly great, Hamas have carried on like monsters in this regard - have you seen their cartoon's taunting Galid's family?, it would bring a tear to a glass eye.

Among these prisoners, those from the West Bank will not be able to return to their homes and will be deported to the Gaza Strip or abroad.

Sigh, we'll probably get stuck with a few - just let them back to their damned homes, they're either released to their families or they're not.

brimal

Fantastic news - the whole country will be buzzing for weeks after this.

I hope he gets the support and privacy needed when he gets home.

brimal

BlaasForRafa wrote: »

I'm sort of surprised that this hasn't been posted already but then I guess some people are only interested in bad news about Israel.

I was going to a few days ago but when you see post 2 and 3 on this thread you can understand why I didn't bother.

BlaasForRafa wrote: »

Its a tough compromise for the Israelis but it shows their commitment to bringing back their soldiers whatever the cost.

One encouraging aspect is that Egyptian army and intelligence services were instrumental in the deal being sealed which indicates a rapprochement towards Israel.

Very tough to release so much prisoners but war is tough sometimes. I have no doubt a lot of the high profile prisoners released will be under surveillance for some time to come.

Great to see Egypt playing a role in the talks too.

The Saint

Good news. He certainly shouldn't have been held so long and certainly not without ICRC access.

arybvtcw0eolkf

I wonder has their been any assurances issued as to his welfare, ie are we looking at a body release or a living Galid?.

The Saint

The popular committees said that Gilad had been informed of his release so unless they were conducting a séance I'd imagine that he is alive. Also, I'd doubt that Israel would release 1,000 prisoners, including those convicted of killing Israeli soldiers, for the sake of a corpse.

arybvtcw0eolkf

The Saint wrote: »

The popular committees said that Gilad had been informed of his release so unless they were conducting a séance I'd imagine that he is alive. Also, I'd doubt that Israel would release 1,000 prisoners, including those convicted of killing Israeli soldiers, for the sake of a corpse.

Over the course of the last thirty years, Israel has released over 7,000 Palestinian prisoners to secure freedom for nineteen live Israelis and to retrieve the bodies of eight others.

Rhys Essien

brimal wrote: »

I was going to a few days ago but when you see post 2 and 3 on this thread you can understand why I didn't bother.



Very tough to release so much prisoners but war is tough sometimes. I have no doubt a lot of the high profile prisoners released will be under surveillance for some time to come.

Great to see Egypt playing a role in the talks too.

What,so we are suppose to turn a blind eye to the fact that there are 7,000 Palestinians in Israeli prisons,of which 280 are CHILDREN.
Get a grip,will ya.

The Saint

Carly Damaged Neuron wrote: »

Over the course of the last thirty years, Israel has released over 7,000 Palestinian prisoners to secure freedom for nineteen live Israelis and to retrieve the bodies of eight others.

And now they're releasing 1,000 for 1. Seems like their currency is increasing.

LondonIrish90

Carly Damaged Neuron wrote: »

Over the course of the last thirty years, Israel has released over 7,000 Palestinian prisoners to secure freedom for nineteen live Israelis and to retrieve the bodies of eight others.

It shows just how seriously the Israeli government takes its pledge to the family and friends of every soldier to fight for their country. They don't stop trying and will pay a huge price to return them safely.

Rhys Essien

Carly Damaged Neuron wrote: »

Over the course of the last thirty years, Israel has released over 7,000 Palestinian prisoners to secure freedom for nineteen live Israelis and to retrieve the bodies of eight others.

Ya it probably was taking a lot of time and effort in torturing these 7,000 prisoners.

Geekness1234

There still blowing each other to pieces.

MyKeyG

Just goes to show the Israeli view of Palestinian life. They consider one Israeli life to be worth the same as 1000 Palestinian lives.

lastlaugh

Carly Damaged Neuron wrote: »

I wonder has their been any assurances issued as to his welfare, ie are we looking at a body release or a living Galid?.

I wonder what happens to someone who has been held captive for so long?

Would they abuse him or treat him badly or maybe try and bring him around to their way of thinking...

Either way, it must be a dreadful experience.

TheUsual

1,000 prisoners is an incredible amount to release at the same time.
Hope it works out for both sides, not a fan of the IDF, but this Shalit has been held for too much of his young life (20%), and should be returned to his family.

Maybe building some bridges between Israel and the future Palestinian State. We can hope.

arybvtcw0eolkf

LondonIrish90 wrote: »

It shows just how seriously the Israeli government takes its pledge to the family and friends of every soldier to fight for their country. They don't stop trying and will pay a huge price to return them safely.

Its a pity we don't have bargaining chips worth a pot to pee in to use and have our own dead returned to us.

Rhys Essien

Wouldnt it be some irony if Gilad Shalit had converted to Islam and denounced all Israeli persecution on his release.
I could imagine Netanyahu's response "Fcuk,we were too late,he has cracked up":D

Einhard

While it's great to see this guy released, it's a pity that Netanyahu wouldn't invest such initiative in proposing a reasonable basis for peace talks.

arybvtcw0eolkf

lastlaugh wrote: »

I wonder what happens to someone who has been held captive for so long?

Would they abuse him or treat him badly or maybe try and bring him around to their way of thinking...

Either way, it must be a dreadful experience.

I know in Brian Keenan's case he was abused, handcuffed and blind folded for most of his four (plus) years in captivity by Islamic Jihad in Beirut.

Terry Waite suffered similarly, both being held in solitary confinement until very close to the time of their release.

I could only imagine Israeli's would be treated with total contempt by their captures.

lastlaugh

Rhys Essien wrote: »

Wouldnt it be some irony if Gilad Shalit had converted to Islam and denounced all Israeli persecution on his release.
I could imagine Netanyahu's response "Fcuk,we were too late,he has cracked up":D

That's kind of what I was thinking.

What if they had kind of brainwashed him over the 5 yrs to see things from their point of view.

What's that syndrome again where you form attachments to your kidnappers?

arybvtcw0eolkf

lastlaugh wrote: »

What's that syndrome again where you form attachments to your kidnappers?

Stockholm Syndrome.

lastlaugh

Carly Damaged Neuron wrote: »

I know in Brian Keenan's case he was abused, handcuffed and blind folded for most of his four (plus) years in captivity by Islamic Jihad in Beirut.

Terry Waite suffered similarly, both being held in solitary confinement until very close to the time of their release.

I could only imagine Israeli's would be treated with total contempt by their captures.

I suppose that is why it is such a great fear for them to be captured.

arybvtcw0eolkf

lastlaugh wrote: »

I suppose that is why it is such a great fear for them to be captured.

Well yes I guess thats a fear for most soldiers, and you can look closer to home for good example - The IRA's treatment of captured British soldiers, and their contempt for our own troops and members of AGS when we attempted to release Don Tidey - they shot one student Garda and murdered a member of the Irish Defence Forces.

Just guessing, but I'd imagine the fear to the Israeli soldier is being held in captivity without access to the IRC, or any humanitarian assistance. Most likely they'd be blind folded, bound and in solidary confinement for the duration of their captivity - likely physically abused and mentally tortured too.

Then have your family taunted by cartoons like this;

I visited El Khiam prison in south Lebanon and the Israeli's and South Lebanese Army (Christian De Facto Forces) didn't exactly provide five star accomodation and torture was certainly carried out, however prisoners were allowed visits from the UN and International Red Cross on occasion.

Chuck Stone

It's interesting how there are 7000 Palestinians including 280 children in Isreali jails and we in the west know the name of one prisoner in the conflict.

The Saint

Carly Damaged Neuron wrote: »

I visited El Khiam prison in south Lebanon and the Israeli's and South Lebanese Army (Christian De Facto Forces) didn't exactly provide five star accomodation and torture was certainly carried out, however prisoners were allowed visits from the UN and International Red Cross on occasion.

Just for the sake of accuracy, Khaim prison was opened in 1984 and the ICRC didn't gain access to the facility until October 1995. Visits were also suspended between September 1997 until July 1998 before being the detention centre was closed in May 2000.

arybvtcw0eolkf

The Saint wrote: »

Just for the sake of accuracy, Khaim prison was opened in 1984 and the ICRC didn't gain access to the facility until October 1995. Visits were also suspended between September 1997 until July 1998 before being the detention centre was closed in May 2000.

So the torture stopped for four years between 1984 and 2000, we're nearing that 5 star accommodation now - my bad.

As bad as Khaim was the real nasty stuff was carried out by the Christians in places like their detention center in Safal Howa (indeed they murdered three Irish soldiers there, the self confessed murderer is now living in Detroit USA).

But getting back on topic, I do hope the IDF soldier is released alive and well - and I hope we (here in Ireland) don't get lumped with any of the released terrorists, let them go back to their homes in The West Bank and be done with 'em, no doubt they'll be greeted and faithed upon like X-factor finalists.

Siuin

Whatever your political affiliations, the case of a young man who was kidnapped when he was barely out of his teens, and left at the whims of extremist militants for five years should be absolutely abhorrent to anyone.

There is quite a lot of criticism in Israel of what some perceive as the Shalit family's 'selfishness' in putting the life of their son before the welfare of the Israeli people, who will now have former prisoners in their midst. Yet those people are forgetting that when you are enlisted into the IDF you're not signing up to be a martyr for the Zionist cause, or an advocate of your government's actions, or anything particularly special at all. You're doing exactly what your schoolmates are doing- just another step in the natural progression of life where you pay your dues and move on to enjoy being an ordinary citizen.

You need to be an extremely cold person not to feel moved by his family's pleas for his return. All I could think of was; what if that was my boyfriend? The same boyfriend who plays computer games, walks his little siblings to school every morning, helps his mom bring the groceries up to the apartment from the car. A flesh and blood human- I can't even comprehend going through all those years never knowing if he's being tortured by his captors at that very moment.

He's been away for so long, it's inevitable that he will be returning home completely mentally broken. My thoughts are with him and his family, and I can only hope that he is strong enough overcome his ordeal to go on to lead a happy and fulfilling life despite all that he has suffered.

Nodin

Carly Damaged Neuron wrote: »

So the torture stopped for four years between 1984 and 2000, we're nearing that 5 star accommodation now - my bad.

..................

They turned it into a museum, but it lost a few stars when it was bombed flat. Doubtless some paddy had tried to build apartments on it.

Siuin

MyKeyG wrote: »

Just goes to show the Israeli view of Palestinian life. They consider one Israeli life to be worth the same as 1000 Palestinian lives.

Oh trust me, if they could swap Gilad Shalit for one Palestinian, they would do so in a second. Unfortunately, his terrorist captors would rather milk the situation of a nation which has become extremely emotionally involved with his case and desperately wants this young man to get back to his family after being held for five long years already.

Jaafa

Israel would never release these prisoners if it thought they were any serious threat to them. The 1000 are for the large part probably Innocent of any crime worse than stone throwing. Come on think about it. Why would Israel release 1000+ murders, terrorists,ex-hamas and fatah members for the sake of one solider? Isn't it likely if they were as bad as they claim,they would only go on to attack/capture more soldiers? And start this cycle all over again? Come on the IDF isn't stupid.

As several posters have said before only to be ignored, of the 280 children in Israeli jails, are any of them being released in this swap?

Jaafa

Nodin wrote: »

They turned it into a museum, but it lost a few stars when it was bombed flat. Doubtless some paddy had tried to build apartments on it.

The stuff they did in there makes Abu Ghraib look like the ritz. All under Israel supervision/knowledge.

Siuin

Jaafa wrote: »

Israel would never release these prisoners if it thought they were any serious threat to them. The 1000 are for the large part probably Innocent of any crime worse than stone throwing. Come on think about it. Why would Israel release 1000+ murders, terrorists,ex-hamas and fatah members for the sake of one solider? Isn't it likely if they were as bad as they claim,they would only go on to attack/capture more soldiers? And start this cycle all over again? Come on the IDF isn't stupid.

As several posters have said before only to be ignored, of the 280 children in Israeli jails, are any of them being released in this swap?

A jail full of thousands of stone throwers, is it? If you wish to make such outrageous statements, at least back it up with evidence. There are well known participants in murders being let loose, with 60 per cent of those released in prisoner swaps predicted to return to activity in terrorist organisations upon being set free.(http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/israel/8822906/Israeli-government-accused-of-capitulating-to-terrorism-over-Gilad-Shalit-deal.html) 280 of the prisoners had been serving life sentences (for rock throwing? Uh, not likely- more like aiding terrorists in settling up suicide bombings) http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/israel-cabinet-approves-gilad-shalit-prisoner-swap-1.389468
They let the 'least dangerous' walk free, but many are to be deported elsewhere and I would think that the vast majority of those staying within close proximity to Israel will be traced by the shabak for the rest of their lives to ensure that they don't re-offend. Still, Israel is taking a huge risk.

Jaafa

Siuin wrote: »

A jail full of thousands of stone throwers, is it? If you wish to make such outrageous statements, at least back it up with evidence. There are well known participants in murders being let loose, with 60 per cent of those released in prisoner swaps predicted to return to activity in terrorist organisations upon being set free.(http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/israel/8822906/Israeli-government-accused-of-capitulating-to-terrorism-over-Gilad-Shalit-deal.html) 280 of the prisoners had been serving life sentences (for rock throwing? Uh, not likely- more like aiding terrorists in settling up suicide bombings) http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/israel-cabinet-approves-gilad-shalit-prisoner-swap-1.389468
They let the 'least dangerous' walk free, but many are to be deported elsewhere and I would think that the vast majority of those staying within close proximity to Israel will be traced by the shabak for the rest of their lives to ensure that they don't re-offend. Still, Israel is taking a huge risk.

If what your saying is true then one has to wonder what the logic is in releasing hundreds of murders and terrorists for the sake of one man. How many more Israelis will die because of this swap? Even if they are 'monitored'. In that article it says only 40 out of the 1000 will be deported. So the rest are safe enough to walk near Israeli borders, in the midst of Hamas members among others?

Again the question of the 280 children has still not been answered.

Btw when are elections due in Israel?

Alopex

WTF? 1000 men - what were they inside for? Were they convicted or just interned?

Is their prison budget under pressure? This makes no sense to me.

BlaasForRafa

Jaafa wrote: »

If what your saying is true then one has to wonder what the logic is in releasing hundreds of murders and terrorists for the sake of one man. How many more Israelis will die because of this swap? Even if they are 'monitored'. In that article it says only 40 out of the 1000 will be deported. So the rest are safe enough to walk near Israeli borders, in the midst of Hamas members among others?

there are 2 things that the Israelis have over Hamas at the moment.

1. The iranians stopped funding hamas during the summer when hamas refused to organize protests in support of the Syrian regime.

2. Hamas fears Operation Cast Lead part 2. The first Cast Lead did them such damage that they don't want a repeat. further evidence of this is the relatively low level of rocket attacks from gaza.

The Israeli

Jaafa wrote: »

If what your saying is true then one has to wonder what the logic is in releasing hundreds of murders and terrorists for the sake of one man. How many more Israelis will die because of this swap? Even if they are 'monitored'. In that article it says only 40 out of the 1000 will be deported. So the rest are safe enough to walk near Israeli borders, in the midst of Hamas members among others?

Btw when are elections due in Israel?

There is still time till the elections.



How much does a life of a single human being worth?
Does it worth risking many other lives?

After 5 years, countless hours of negotiation, immense public pressure, and a principle approval by the senior defense force officials, Israel decided to swap a single simple army soldier for 1027 prisoners, of which 450 were involved in terror attacks.

It's not a "smart" trade. It's an emotional trade and it is what differs Israelis from many others - the mutual guarantee.
A soldier should know that his country is responsible for him.
I think that the price is a little high, but the majority of the nation is willing to take the chance.
The memories of Israeli captured flight navigator (since 1986) Ron Arad are still fresh in the public opinion (he has not been returned) , so does the failing rescue by force of Nachshon Vaksman.
They never fade away from the public's mind. People wanted to free a person who was still alive, almost however heavy the price may be.

Somebody here said that Israel values 1027 lives as one Israeli life. Ha ha.
Maybe Hamas values 1027 lives of their own people as one Israeli life. Hamas set the heavy price. I understand that it's their main card and all, and they wanted to achieve the most they could.
At least Israel could chose the prisoners and the most dangerous will not be returned to the west bank.

Siuin

The Israeli wrote: »

There is still time till the elections.



How much does a life of a single human being worth?
Does it worth risking many other lives?

After 5 years, countless hours of negotiation, immense public pressure, and a principle approval by the senior defense force officials, Israel decided to swap a single simple army soldier for 1027 prisoners, of which 450 were involved in terror attacks.

It's not a "smart" trade. It's an emotional trade and it is what differs Israelis from many others - the mutual guarantee.
A soldier should know that his country is responsible for him.
I think that the price is a little high, but the majority of the nation is willing to take the chance.
The memories of Israeli captured flight navigator (since 1986) Ron Arad are still fresh in the public opinion (he has not been returned) , so does the failing rescue by force of Nachshon Vaksman.
They never fade away from the public's mind. People wanted to free a person who was still alive, almost however heavy the price may be.

Somebody here said that Israel values 1027 lives as one Israeli life. Ha ha.
Maybe Hamas values 1027 lives of their own people as one Israeli life. Hamas set the heavy price. I understand that it's their main card and all, and they wanted to achieve the most they could.
At least Israel could chose the prisoners and the most dangerous will not be returned to the west bank.

And now, a live report from our offices in Tel Aviv :P
Well said.

arybvtcw0eolkf

The Israeli wrote: »

A soldier should know that his country is responsible for him............

....The memories of Israeli captured flight navigator (since 1986) Ron Arad are still fresh in the public opinion (he has not been returned)

I have a lot of admiration for Israel for these reason's.

WhatNowForUs?

Jaafa wrote: »

Israel would never release these prisoners if it thought they were any serious threat to them. The 1000 are for the large part probably Innocent of any crime worse than stone throwing. Come on think about it. Why would Israel release 1000+ murders, terrorists,ex-hamas and fatah members for the sake of one solider? Isn't it likely if they were as bad as they claim,they would only go on to attack/capture more soldiers? And start this cycle all over again? Come on the IDF isn't stupid.

As several posters have said before only to be ignored, of the 280 children in Israeli jails, are any of them being released in this swap?

Hopefully it is a pre-requisite for a cease fire being driven by behind the sceens work from the American Administration which will lead on to further developments
Heres hoping

WhatNowForUs?

On what grounds would the US not want a peace settlement, I can only think of one possible area and the would be arms sales.

Siuin

Sick, sick so-called 'humour'. I would advise anyone to simply ignore such posts.

Mahatma has been banned. I'm deleting the quoted posts.

no more offensive "humour" on this thread please

Scofflaw

bluewolf wrote: »

Mahatma has been banned. I'm deleting the quoted posts.

no more offensive "humour" on this thread please

Ban upgraded to a permaban, because this is just the latest in a long series of such posts, unbalanced by any positive contribution.

moderately,
Scofflaw

Geekness1234

Having recently done an exchange with a load of Israeli students (really nice people) the thought of any of them going through that makes me shudder.

RandolphEsq

Big day today; Israeli court will 'listen' to the petition to refuse this deal/accept it. Hopefully it is refused, for whatever Constitutional grounds, because one thousand scumbags are not worth one scumbag!

The Israeli

The court has rejected their petitions yesterday.
Gilad has been transferred to Egypt by now. In a few hours he'll be in Israel

Siuin

Wah, how exciting! Can't wait to see footage from his return!


So, I guess people will need to find something new for their facebook badges now :P

brimal

First pictures of Gilad released. Very skinny, but looks in good health.

Everything going to plan so far.