ragworth in silage

Tomjim

In one field of silage which I made there was some ragworth, not an awful lot but there was some in it all the same. I know this is not good.

I have sucklers and also some bucket reared calves. Is there any category more resistant than another category. Will I get away without any difficulties.

Anyone any experience

blue5000

No experience, is it pit/chopped/baled? Reason I ask is if its bales they might not eat the ragwort. I do know it's the liver that processes the toxins, make sure fluke are sorted and copper levels, actually minerals in general are sorted at housing, just my 0.02 e worth

bbam

Not that I'd like to find out but isn't the toxin gone after a couple of weeks??
Read somewhere that after topping you need to keep cattle off for 4 weeks and then it's OK..

EGAR

http://www.teagasc.ie/horticulture/advisory/vegetable/ragwort.asp

Tomjim

its baled silage,

Joe the Plumber

Tomjim wrote: »

In one field of silage which I made there was some ragworth, not an awful lot but there was some in it all the same. I know this is not good.

I have sucklers and also some bucket reared calves. Is there any category more resistant than another category. Will I get away without any difficulties.

Anyone any experience

I bale my own silage and often seen some of it going into bales, never had a problem.

When it cures with the silage its harmless.

Took some silage from a neighbour last year and it was littered with ferns. thought the whole crop was usless.

Marked the bales and feed the first one to see what would happen. they gobbled it down perfect. no problems.

blue5000

EGAR wrote: »

http://www.teagasc.ie/horticulture/advisory/vegetable/ragwort.asp

Thanks egar, thats my copper seen to anyway.

keep going

fella i know "bought" bales with ragworth in them and he fed them to fattening cattle.they were on so much ration any way and wouldnt be around long enough for toxins to build,so i was told anyway

greysides

http://www.sac.ac.uk/mainrep/pdfs/tn570ragwortpoisoning.pdf

whelan1

if you are feeding it feed to cattle that will be going to factory soon , ragworth causes a slow and painful death- lost 8 with it 2 years ago, bought in stock... cannot understand how people who know it is there dont pick it before the silage is baled ....

whelan1

Joe the Plumber wrote: »

I bale my own silage and often seen some of it going into bales, never had a problem.

When it cures with the silage its harmless
bull****

LostCovey

Joe the Plumber wrote: »

When it cures with the silage its harmless.

Unfortunately this isn't true, there are loads of examples of poisoning from ragwort in silage. In fact silage is probably higher risk than either hay or grazing, because the bitter taste is disguised by silage acids.

It's a bit of a lottery if there isn't much ragwort in the pasture - it depends on how much each individual animal consumes.

Unfortunately it is a cumulative toxin, so each little bit adds up, hence the advice to feed it to dry stock that are going for early slaughter. Even then you can get caught out if one animal gets a few feeds with extra ragwort in it.

The other risk of cutting it in silage is mentioned in Greysides' linked document from the Scottish Ag Colleges, which is converting it from a biannual plant to a perrennial plant that will continue to grow year after year.

There's no easy answers with ragwort, unfortunately.

LostCovey

Joe the Plumber

whelan1 wrote: »

Joe the Plumber wrote: »

I bale my own silage and often seen some of it going into bales, never had a problem.

When it cures with the silage its harmless
bull****

I have picked it, but your not going to get 100% of it. Have seen it going into bales, and also gave 10years baling silage on contract, seen it going into silage all over the place and regularly enquired if there where any problems. Never once.

My only experience of ragwort killing animals is if you cut it and leave it on the ground and if its eaten within a couple of weeks. deadly.


Giving my experience whelan1 not reading things out of books!!

whelan1

Joe the Plumber wrote: »

whelan1 wrote: »

My only experience of ragwort killing animals is if you cut it and leave it on the ground and if its eaten within a couple of weeks. deadly.


Giving my experience whelan1 not reading things out of books!!

well i am giving my experience of seeing 8 animals dying a slow and painful death due to the total laziness of someone else

pakalasa

It's something to remember too when buying in silage bales. It's the kind of thing you'd never think of.

20silkcut

Fair hard to see ragworth in a wrapped bale!!!!

Pay by cheque though to solve that problem.

F.D

At what stage is it at its most noxious. when its a stalk with the yellow flower or at the rosette stage at ground level?
Reason i ask is you can always walk through a silage field spot the tall yellow ones and pull, but how many are missed that are below grass level or not visable?

The other risk of cutting it in silage is mentioned in Greysides' linked document from the Scottish Ag Colleges, which is converting it from a biannual plant to a perrennial plant that will continue to grow year after year.

This is very interesting, and i'd say its one reason why its getting out of hand every where from been topped/ cut etc, looks like chemical control is the only way forward

whelan1

its most noxious when it is dying as it becomes palatable, in a bale of silage or a silage pit it is preserved or "sweetened" so the animal eats it. In a bale of hay it just dies and they dont eat it...cattle will not eat ragworth as it stands in a field unless they are starving... the other time it is very dangerous is after spraying , animals MUST be left off for at least 10 days OR until all material is dead, when itis dying it is palatable

reps4

hi,

so what constitutes a dangerous amount?

i had about 30 single stems in approx half acre that i marked out for contractor to avoid.

his 'brightest' worker was on the mower that day and cut full field. it then got raked into 30 ft rows so iv 12 bales aside that contain this amount.

1 bale will be going to 20 suckers.

do ye still consider this a dangerous amount?

is it safe for any animals, would sell-give them away at cost if so

whelan1

in an article i read it said 3kg can cause damage , but if you know it is in these bales feed it to cattle that will be going to the factory soon...

LostCovey

Joe the Plumber wrote: »

whelan1 wrote: »

I have picked it, but your not going to get 100% of it. Have seen it going into bales, and also gave 10years baling silage on contract, seen it going into silage all over the place and regularly enquired if there where any problems. Never once.

My only experience of ragwort killing animals is if you cut it and leave it on the ground and if its eaten within a couple of weeks. deadly.


Giving my experience whelan1 not reading things out of books!!

Look if you are arguing that ragwort in silage isn't harmful, there is little point in arguing with you.

There's so many people with evidence to the contrary.

Asking how much is safe is really like asking how many cigarettes a day is safe. It's not a perfect example but it makes the point that its a lottery.

Thed more ragwort in the field, the more they get, and the more years they eat it fthe greater the chance it will kill them.

But there are plenty of cattle walking round with some liver damage, maybe producing less milk or putting on less weight.

The ones that die are the tip of the iceberg.

LostCovey

whelan1

i suppose i am one of the unlucky ones that got caught out- by someones elses mistake- but how are you to know what an animal has ate in the months prior to purchase ? same can be said for buying in bales of silage , how do you know? do you take the persons word for it. Would any one on here ask a seller "did you feed ragworth to your cattle recently " when looking at stock, i dont think so , i certainly dont think they will say yes

pakalasa

Joe the Plumber wrote: »

......When it cures with the silage its harmless........

http://www.teagasc.ie/horticulture/advisory/vegetable/ragwort.asp

From the above Link;

Poisoning
Ragwort is a highly poisonous plant if eaten. Ragwort is toxic to cattle, horses, deer, goats, pigs and chickens. Sheep are less affected by it but some trials would suggest lower thrive due to eating ragwort The poisonous substances in ragwort are toxic alkaloids (Jacobine, Jacodine and Jaconine). These cause the liver to accumulate copper, causing ill heath and death. On good pastures livestock avoid eating ragwort, as it is unpalatable, but where there is over-stocking and grass is scarce the weed is unavoidably eaten. The poisonous material contained in ragwort is not destroyed by drying. Hay containing ragwort is particularly dangerous. Grass silage containing ragwort is also a serious source of poisoning.

LostCovey

whelan1 wrote: »

i suppose i am one of the unlucky ones that got caught out- by someones elses mistake- but how are you to know what an animal has ate in the months prior to purchase ? same can be said for buying in bales of silage , how do you know? do you take the persons word for it. Would any one on here ask a seller "did you feed ragworth to your cattle recently " when looking at stock, i dont think so , i certainly dont think they will say yes

This is totally true.

However this is only one of a million reasons why our mart system is bonkers, churning livestock through different herds like they were Quinn shares.

I am in danger of going off topic here, but think about it: some Irish animals die with a final value of a grand or so having been through have a dozen marts, with more spent in its lifetime on private testing, haulage and mart fees than feed.

Look at the mart stamps on a typical card - this is an ingrained cultural thing, but it is not economic activity!

Its not just because of ragwort that our Irish approach to biosecurity, closed herds and buying is totally off the wall.

Ragwort is one more reason to buy as little livestock as you possibly can, except in straws.

Other countries can get by with no marts you know!

LostCovey

LostCovey

F.D wrote: »

At what stage is it at its most noxious. when its a stalk with the yellow flower or at the rosette stage at ground level?
Reason i ask is you can always walk through a silage field spot the tall yellow ones and pull, but how many are missed that are below grass level or not visable?

Every bit of it is poisonous - leaf, stem, flower, root.

The rosette in year 1 is the most dangerous because it is the hardest for animals to avoid.

People who say cattle will avoid it are talking about the big second year plant with the fibrous stems and yellow flowers.

The first year plant does not even look like ragwort, and people with acres of it don't know what it looks like.

LC

bb12

as a horse owner, ragwort is a particular hate of mine. i only buy hay from fields i've inspected before being cut to ensure no ragwort. it's a horrible horrible weed and the toxins build up in the liver over years. Milk thistle helps with badly affected animals but why people don't manage ragwort is beyond me. whenever i saw the yellow flowers in farmers fields, i find it completely disgusting and a sign of very bad management. unfortunately it seems to be spreading more and more every year.

djmc

IMO dump the silage and buy bales
They will be very dear bales if they kill all your cattle and it will be too late when
they start droping off
Its not worth the risk

whelan1

djmc wrote: »

IMO dump the silage and buy bales
They will be very dear bales if they kill all your cattle and it will be too late when
they start droping off
Its not worth the risk

but how do you know that the bales you are buying are not the same as your own?

Joe the Plumber

Strong opinions on this one....:pac:....

Sheep kill it AFAIK.

djmc

whelan1 wrote: »

but how do you know that the bales you are buying are not the same as your own?

You dont but its better than feeding them bales that you know contains ragworth and you might have some comeback if you can prove the bales you brought killed cattle.

whelan1

djmc wrote: »

You dont but its better than feeding them bales that you know contains ragworth and you might have some comeback if you can prove the bales you brought killed cattle.

how can you prove it?