Skillnet?

Slig

Today a letter from our local Social welfare office arrived with a flyer in it reccomending a day of "free training for jobseekers" from Skillnet in one of the following courses

1. Emergency First Aid
2. Career Development incl. idea generation, job searching, communicating with confidence & networking to get work
3. Goal mapping for Employment Success
4. Social Media (facebook, Twitter & linkedin)
5. Fire Warden Training
6. Energise (?)
7. Customer Service

This crap has seemingly been funded by the dept of Education and Skills and the National Training Fund and endorsed by the Dept of Social Welfare!!!

How the hell is a one day course in "Energise" (whatever the hell that is) going to get people working and I cant imagine having a cert in "Social Media" would be looked on as a positive thing in any job interview.

At best this is a stupid waste of public funds and peoples time, at worst its just plain patronising.

These people are even worse than the crowd in FAS that suggested a course in word processing knowing they have a degree and over 10 years experience working in and managing an office. Do these people really live in the same world as the rest of us??

biko

What do you suggest she do instead?

fedor.2.

Hows that degree working out for her??

godscop

She upset she will miss Jeremy Kyle ?

AeoNGriM

biko wrote: »

What do you suggest she do instead?

I don't think his wife's lack of employment was the main point of his post. :rolleyes:

m5ex9oqjawdg2i

Has your wife proactively looked for any courses herself?

That first course is a very good one to have on your CV...

Do you think it's better for your wife to sit on her hole doing nothing or to do one of these courses?

If you knew anything about social media, you would know how essential this is to businesses and how much these websites generate in revenue.

Not saying your wife does nothing, but nothing in your post to suggest otherwise.

Oranage2

I hear Ballyfermot has a good make-up and nail course at the moment maybe try get her on that?

Logical Fallacy

We've got about an 4:1 "missing the ****ing point" ratio in the replies so far.

This thread is gonna be awesome.

OP, i know you were wondering if this Skillnet thing is a waste of a tax payers money in an attempt to apply a coat of white wash to a crumbling wall but be prepared for most people to rag on your wife for not having a job.

smash

don't get too stressed about it. She'll probably know more than the trainers. And in a one day course she will learn as much as the trainers learned during their one day course on how to train people how to do these things.

starbelgrade

Slig wrote: »

My wife is an unemployed Architectural Technician,

she has a degree and over 10 years experience working in and managing an office.

This time last year, over 70% of people who worked in architectural practices had been made redundant.

It will take a long time for full employment in the industry to recover - I'd estimate a good 5 to 10 years at least.

The 30% of people still working in this profession have mostly specialist skills that are still required & probably a lot more experience than your wife.

Any new people that offices are taking (and they are, but cautiously so) are mostly college graduates, simply because they are young, hungry for work & cheap.

It's a sad fact of life, but any employer who sees a gap in a CV due to unemployment - for whatever reason - hears alarm bells. I know for a fact that most architects will rather head hunt from other offices than search the dole queues for employees with a lot of experience.

Your wife may well have to re-train & if you or her see that as "patronising", I really think you have to reconsider what is & what isn't patronising with the profession being in the current lull that it's in now. Skillnet may not be the way forward for her, but maybe it's a case of trying something else that might spark a new path.

Did people miss the bit in his post that said hes wife was an Architectural tec,


The construction industry in Ireland?


She might get another job who knows, but in all honesty do people really think the course he is describing would help someone like his wife.

fedor.2.

Logical Fallacy wrote: »

We've got about an 4:1 "missing the ****ing point" ratio in the replies so far.

This thread is gonna be awesome.

OP, i know you were wondering if this Skillnet thing is a waste of a tax payers money in an attempt to apply a coat of white wash to a crumbling wall but be prepared for most people to rag on your wife for not having a job.

Spot on, which is quiet rare for you

stupidusername

I signed on when I finished college (after getting a software development degree) and when I became aware there were no jobs going,i looked into doing a course to keep up with the area and do something with my time,but all the FAS courses were way below my level of education. Completely useless to consider those courses once you've any sort of education.

Oh and I went for the CV skills help,literally she looked at it for 1minute and said yeah that looks fine,then went onto FAS.ie to see if she could find me a job.

biko

Yes, but what alternatives are there? What do you suggest she should do instead of attending a skillnet course?
It's probably satisfying to rant here about the state of things, but can you offer some sort of solution too?

starbelgrade

mariaalice wrote: »

She might get another job who knows, but in all honesty do people really think the course he is describing would help someone like his wife.

Her chances of getting a job are extremely slim.

And in that case, the course on "Career Development incl. idea generation, job searching, communicating with confidence & networking to get work" might not be such a bad idea.

BASHIR

Take solace in the fact that not everyone who is unemployed is as well educated as your wife. Lots of people on the dole with less skills this might be a great opportunity for them to up skill.

godscop

Architects ripped people off for years in the boom. No sympathy for them or the technicians. Every tradesman who ripped people off and worked when they wanted, tough luck. What goes around...

Abi

fedor.2. wrote: »

Spot on, which is quiet rare for you

Shush now.

lastlaugh

Slig wrote: »

My wife is an unemployed Architectural Technician, today she recieved a letter from our local Social welfare office with a flyer in it reccomending she take a day of "free training for jobseekers" from Skillnet in one of the following courses

1. Emergency First Aid
2. Career Development incl. idea generation, job searching, communicating with confidence & networking to get work
3. Goal mapping for Employment Success
4. Social Media (facebook, Twitter & linkedin)
5. Fire Warden Training
6. Energise (?)
7. Customer Service

This crap has seemingly been funded by the dept of Education and Skills and the National Training Fund and endorsed by the Dept of Social Welfare!!!

How the hell is a one day course in "Energise" (whatever the hell that is) going to get people working and I cant imagine having a cert in "Social Media" would be looked on as a positive thing in any job interview.

At best this is a stupid waste of public funds and peoples time, at worst its just plain patronising.

These people are even worse than the crowd in FAS that suggested she sign up for a course in word processing knowing that she has a degree and over 10 years experience working in and managing an office. Do these people really live in the same world as the rest of us??

Advise her to at least try some of them out.

Captain Darling

I thought this had something to do with Skynet.

Sonnenblumen

Does seem odd that a person with such a qualification and so much experience is unemployed?

Perhaps its time to think outside the 'architectural tech only' box to seek opportunities within the broader construction sector and beyond.

I would have expected arch techs to be more marketable than archs?


Fail to understand why the state's employment support services/resources are not a little more focused when it comes to offering career planning advice etc

Abi

biko wrote: »

Yes, but what alternatives are there? What do you suggest she should do instead of attending a skillnet course?

I'd be insulted if I received that in the post too. I'd suggest something circling her experience, something to build on.


I've the likes of first aid and fire training, nobody has ever picked this up on my CV.

Sonnenblumen

godscop wrote: »

Architects ripped people off for years in the boom. No sympathy for them or the technicians. Every tradesman who ripped people off and worked when they wanted, tough luck. What goes around...

Did you get caught when the tide went out? Reminds me of the blinded FF lacky looking to offload blame onto others?

m5ex9oqjawdg2i

stupidusername wrote: »

I signed on when I finished college (after getting a software development degree) and when I became aware there were no jobs going,i looked into doing a course to keep up with the area and do something with my time,but all the FAS courses were way below my level of education. Completely useless to consider those courses once you've any sort of education.

Oh and I went for the CV skills help,literally she looked at it for 1minute and said yeah that looks fine,then went onto FAS.ie to see if she could find me a job.

The part in bold is complete bullshít.

Sonnenblumen wrote: »

Does seem odd that a person with such a qualification and so much experience is unemployed?

Perhaps its time to think outside the 'architectural tech only' box to seek opportunities within the broader construction sector and beyond.

I would have expected arch techs to be more marketable than archs?


Fail to understand why the state's employment support services/resources are not a little more focused when it comes to offering career planning advice etc

I would say it has something to do with funding. It would be expensive to upskill somebody who has a PHD for instance.

If his wife as adult who has already worked for a number of years, and I presume has a degree, needs help with networking and job seeking sills then she has more problems that unemployment going on.

sbsquarepants

FAS in money/time waste shocker!
The organisation is and always has been a complete and total waste of taxpayers money, it's basically staffed by morons and run for morons, anyone with an ounce of common sense, never mind education is miles above the FAS level. I mean lets look at some of these "courses"
Social media??? Fúck off!
Energise??? What the fúck is that? Sounds like stop smoking blow every day and get out and look for a job you bum, only more politicaly correct.
Fire warden training??? Holy mother of fúcking christ. Does anyone here really believe any interviewer will be swayed by the fact you were once shown how to use a bleeding fire extinguisher?
What a joke!
Frankly OP your missus would be better of watching Jeremy Kyle.

starbelgrade

godscop wrote: »

Architects ripped people off for years in the boom. No sympathy for them or the technicians. Every tradesman who ripped people off and worked when they wanted, tough luck. What goes around...

That's complete bollox in fairness. Architects, like any other profession, charge what the market value will pay for their services.

However, unlike other professions such as doctors or lawyers, their market value & fees will fluctuate with demand.

So in the profession, there are good times & lean times, so it's understandable that they try to make money while the sun shines... that's how all successful businesses operate in a free market.

godscop

Sonnenblumen wrote: »

Did you get caught when the tide went out? Reminds me of the blinded FF lacky looking to offload blame onto others?

FF, Banks, Builders all greed. Everyone knows Tradesman ripped people off for years. IF they have no work now..tough ****.

Oranage2

Logical Fallacy wrote: »

We've got about an 4:1 "missing the ****ing point" ratio in the replies so far.

This thread is gonna be awesome.

OP, i know you were wondering if this Skillnet thing is a waste of a tax payers money in an attempt to apply a coat of white wash to a crumbling wall but be prepared for most people to rag on your wife for not having a job.

I think you're missing the point - The op's Wife is an Architectural Technician, so not quite an architect and with many actual architcts unemployed what hope has a technichan got?

Now the government is trying to help her out with free courses to upskill or train in another field but typical Irish style she thinks she's too good for it.


OP if your wife wants a job then she's gonna need to get into another profession -

End of

Thread/

stupidusername

Brittany Lively Puff wrote: »

The part in bold is complete bullshít.

Do you want to explain why?

TheZohanS

Abi wrote: »

I've the likes of first aid and fire training, nobody has ever picked this up on my CV.

Some day you might use that first aid and fire training and you'll end up saving someone's life. They'll post a thread about you here and mention how you used to be a poster, people will even say "oh yeah she thanked one of my posts once".

Abi: 1 Recruiters: 0

starbelgrade

Sonnenblumen wrote: »

I would have expected arch techs to be more marketable than archs?

Architects in general have better training & a wider range of skills.

Add to that the fact that many technicians were essentially "CAD monkeys" during the boom years & you can see why there is little or no demand for them now.

Slig

Way to read the first line and ignore the rest,
I'm not gonna try defending her by documenting the various min. wage jobs and courses she has done aftsince being let go because thats not the point of my post and as this is After hours and I realise that most of you wont get past the first couple of posts before skipping to the end anyway

So I'll edit the OP to maybe bring it back on track slightly.

Sonnenblumen

Brittany Lively Puff wrote: »

I would say it has something to do with funding. It would be expensive to upskill somebody who has a PHD for instance.

Not necessarily so, especially if the focus is on a new area not related to the PhD. Plenty of useless PhD's out there and unemployable.


Nothing more wasteful than offering employment related training services which do not improve employability?

seamus

OK first off, you're taking a generic "sent to everyone on a list" flyer very personally. The computer which generates these letters, and the person who packs the envelope don't care how much experience the recipient has in x, y or z industries or whether they know how to use a computer.

I agree with you partially. What use is emergency first aid training or fire warden training in finding a job? Zero.

But that's not to say that they're all pointless. Despite your wife's qualifications, plenty of jobseekers only possess a handful of specific skills, especially when you're talking about fresh-out-of-college kids or someone who's been let go after 30 years in the same place. They might be an utter genius on the nuances of James Joyce's Ulysses or a complete guru on the finer points of pre-Dickensian architecture, but when it comes to every day skills like dealing with customers or sending an email, they haven't a clue.

For example, one-day courses on customer service or social media could well prove useful in an interview, as many customer service roles now involve the use of social media. They're only piddly one-day courses, but they can give that person something to talk about that the other candidates can't.

The other courses appear to be more geared towards self-motivation, something which is essential for jobseekers. As I know from job hunting, half of the battle is getting out there and searching for jobs every fncking day, after day.

Just because your wife has no use for these courses, it's just a tiny bit arrogant to think that nobody has any use for them and they're a waste of money.

Abi

TheZohan wrote: »

Some day you might use that first aid and fire training and you'll end up saving someone's life. They'll post a thread about you here and mention how you used to be a poster, people will even say "oh yeah she thanked one of my posts once".

Abi: 1 Recruiters: 0

Gohh... could you imagine it?!! You're right, dammit. They've just re-deemed their place on my CV :pac:

Sonnenblumen

starbelgrade wrote: »

Architects in general have better training & a wider range of skills.

Add to that the fact that many technicians were essentially "CAD monkeys" during the boom years & you can see why there is little or no demand for them now.

Better training, more skills? I'm not sure how much of that would stand up to closer scrutiny. Of course there are differences but I would see more flexibility and wider career opps for techs than archs.

You have a poor understanding of what arch techs, and many would disagree with your assertion of them being 'CAD monkeys'.

Many have used this skill in other areas and being more 'hands on' are less likely than archs to be UE.

K-9

Social Media would be a decent course though 1 day is hardly going to make much inroads. Companies are interested in making the best of it and many have no presence on Facebook etc.

Abi

Sonnenblumen wrote: »

You have a poor understanding of what arch techs, and many would disagree with your assertion of them being 'CAD monkeys'.

*pulls up a seat*


/gets popcorns

Am I dreaming or did someone reply that it seem strange that someone who is an architectural tech, would have a problem in getting a job and then say they should look at the wider construction industry!!!!

The construction industry in Ireland!!!!

Slig

seamus wrote: »

OK first off, you're taking a generic "sent to everyone on a list" flyer very personally. The computer which generates these letters, and the person who packs the envelope don't care how much experience the recipient has in x, y or z industries or whether they know how to use a computer.

I agree with you partially. What use is emergency first aid training or fire warden training in finding a job? Zero.

But that's not to say that they're all pointless. Despite your wife's qualifications, plenty of jobseekers only possess a handful of specific skills, especially when you're talking about fresh-out-of-college kids or someone who's been let go after 30 years in the same place. They might be an utter genius on the nuances of James Joyce's Ulysses or a complete guru on the finer points of pre-Dickensian architecture, but when it comes to every day skills like dealing with customers or sending an email, they haven't a clue.

For example, one-day courses on customer service or social media could well prove useful in an interview, as many customer service roles now involve the use of social media. They're only piddly one-day courses, but they can give that person something to talk about that the other candidates can't.

The other courses appear to be more geared towards self-motivation, something which is essential for jobseekers. As I know from job hunting, half of the battle is getting out there and searching for jobs every fncking day, after day.

Just because your wife has no use for these courses, it's just a tiny bit arrogant to think that nobody has any use for them and they're a waste of money.

Firstly, how is posting a rant in AH "taking something seriously?":D

I agree, its better than doing nothing but in terms of jobs created is it worth anything?

Realistically, how much value would an employer put on a cert someone has for attending a turn up and pass one day course? Especially when there is so much choice for them out there. The social media course alone is going to be full of people either unable to turn on a computer or people that were going to spend all day on Twitter and Facebook anyway.

Someone invested a lot of money in this project and I just dont see how it will create any justifiable number of jobs. Anyone that has attended a FAS course will know that there are always a percentage of people there that have no intention of learning anything from the course and are only there because they have to be. That along with the disreputable sub-contractors is what often cheapened a worthwhile course to the extent that a FAS qualification was worth very little. I cant see how this will be any different.

starbelgrade

Sonnenblumen wrote: »

You have a poor understanding of what arch techs, and many would disagree with your assertion of them being 'CAD monkeys'.

I understand very well what techies do & know that the term "CAD monkey" is not a favourable one, which is why I wouldn't apply it in a general sense - what I said was, that many techies simply settled into the role of producing drawings over the boom years & didn't develop their skills any further. Most of those ones are out of work now.

There's a lot more to a professional practice than simply producing drawings & while it's obviously an essential part - in terms of creating revenue - it's a lot lower down the ladder than it used to be.

Sonnenblumen

mariaalice wrote: »

Am I dreaming or did someone reply that it seem strange that someone who is an architectural tech, would have a problem in getting a job and then say they should look at the wider construction industry!!!!

The construction industry in Ireland!!!!

Have you lost your spoon?

seamus

Slig wrote: »

Realistically, how much value would an employer put on a cert someone has for attending a turn up and pass one day course? Especially when there is so much choice for them out there. The social media course alone is going to be full of people either unable to turn on a computer or people that were going to spend all day on Twitter and Facebook anyway.

I think you're overestimating the level that these courses are aimed at.

They're aimed at people who wouldn't be able to answer questions like, "Have you ever used facebook" or "What would you do if a customer started swearing at you on the phone", in an interview. For many employers, have a candidate who is able to answer these questions and perhaps even have a quick chat about them may be a breath of fresh air that day.
Think about someone who has spent 30 years working in an accounts position where the only others she interacted with were her direct colleagues. She would be utterly lost when faced with any kind of other basic office work.

Slig

starbelgrade wrote: »

I understand very well what techies do & know that the term "CAD monkey" is not a favourable one, which is why I wouldn't apply it in a general sense - what I said was, that many techies simply settled into the role of producing drawings over the boom years & didn't develop their skills any further. Most of those ones are out of work now.

There's a lot more to a professional practice than simply producing drawings & while it's obviously an essential part - in terms of creating revenue - it's a lot lower down the ladder than it used to be.

Have to agree, many of the older architectural offices only wanted someone to draw their projects up for them in CAD, it was very easy to get stuck in this role and I'm sure many Arch techs never did anything more complex than prepare a planning application.

m5ex9oqjawdg2i

stupidusername wrote: »

Do you want to explain why?

Sure.

You just said that if you have any sort of education then a FAS course is useless. That's bullshít. There are quite a few courses a graduate could avail of. It may not be in the same industry, or it may.

Sonnenblumen wrote: »

Not necessarily so, especially if the focus is on a new area not related to the PhD. Plenty of useless PhD's out there and unemployable.

Very true. I was trying to explain that once somebody is highly educated it may be more difficult to provide upskilling in that specific area.

Nothing more wasteful than offering employment related training services which do not improve employability?

Well it may not be directly used to get a job but it can help. FAS provide course that will help both directly and indirectly to find work. Two people of equal education/experience etc etc are both unemployed one has completed several menial FAS courses that don't directly reflect the persons career prospects and the other person has done fcuk all. Straight away, the person who ha completed some courses will be more attractive due to their willingness to learn etc etc.

Slig

seamus wrote: »

...........Think about someone who has spent 30 years working in an accounts position where the only others she interacted with were her direct colleagues. She would be utterly lost when faced with any kind of other basic office work.

But would that person be likely to get the job based on a one day course? especially considering that for the likes of retail and office work there are so many other more qualified and experienced people looking for the same job.

Although some of the courses sound like they could be of buse I dont see how a one day course is going to cover enough to be of any benefit to anyone except the trainers.

starbelgrade

Slig wrote: »

Have to agree, many of the older architectural offices only wanted someone to draw their projects up for them in CAD, it was very easy to get stuck in this role and I'm sure many Arch techs never did anything more complex than prepare a planning application.

A lot of them went further too - preparing tender drawings, construction drawings etc., but never really got beyond the stage of it being a desk job.

Most architects can use CAD & with less work on their desks, you'll find that a lot of them are now doing their own drawings instead of farming them out to a technician like they used to do.

Either that, or they'll get a graduate into the office and pay them less than half what they used to pay for a technician.

stupidusername

Brittany Lively Puff wrote: »

Sure.

You just said that if you have any sort of education then a FAS course is useless. That's bullshít. There are quite a few courses a graduate could avail of. It may not be in the same industry, or it may.

What I said was when you're just after getting a software development degree, it's pointless to take up a FÁS level course in it. you get that, surely?

so do you think when you're just fresh out of college, you should take up a course no matter what area it's in?

uck51js9zml2yt

Ive done a couple of 1 & 2 day courses in linked in and train the trainer whuch were really good.
ive just finished a h.dip in web tech and now doing a postgrad dip in cloud computing with the plan to retrain and get a job that doesnt involve trucks and boxes.
If she gets involved in some of the neteorking groups it opens up a lot of good non fas day courses for free.

LadyHeart

Captain Darling wrote: »

I thought this had something to do with Skynet.

Me too. Major disappointment!