Irish Mortgage Corp. "a deal with the devil".

My_left_leg

Wertz wrote: »

...and yet in some other countries, the barman can indeed be held responsible for someone that has drank too much, caused an accident whilst drink driving or similar.
Part fo the problem with how mortgages are/were doled out (no pun intended) in this country is due to a commission based system and the apparent fact that the lender isn't as concerned about the actual value of the asset they're loaning the money for...

If I was to loan you the money to buy a car, I'd damn well want to know that that car was actually worth the money I was loaing you and wasn't some tarted up lemon, just in case I had to take it off you as part of the debt if your loan went bad...but even more than that I'd want to be sure that you could actually pay me back the price of that car plus the agreed interest.
The thing is that these broekers didn't care because it's not their money they're loaning...they get their % no matter what...and if the sh*t hits the fan the company goes under or gets bailed out.

How the hell was someone reselling fruit and veg and his wife on the scratcher going to pay back a 300K loan???
Takes two to tango here and I have to blame the people who leant it as much as the people who borrowed it.

well said.
commission was the name of the game, and the poor unfortunate clients were merely a means to this commission.

foxyboxer

On social welfare whilst operating a fruit and veg stall?

My_left_leg

did the brokers know this?
did they choose to ignore it?
did they "dress it up" before submitting it to the subprime lender aka loan shark?
were the borrowers aware of this?
how much commission did they receive?

blooming awful.:rolleyes:

My_left_leg

foxyboxer wrote: »

On social welfare whilst operating a fruit and veg stall?

:eek:

joseph brand

Fine Gael TD Paschal Donohoe met the widow and her family yesterday and said they were the victims of bad lending decisions and a lack of regulation.
"I’ve met this family and seen the tragic consequences of bad banking," said Mr Donohoe.

"They have been broken apart by terrible lending decisions and lack of regulation.
"It’s the single saddest case I’ve ever come across and makes me determined more than ever that we put in place a framework that will stop this happening to other homes and families."

I for one don't believe a word Paschal says. When you have TD's on big money and all the perks that go with it, they become far removed from normal Joe's. These people live on another planet and have no real sympathy or concern for the 'lower classes'.

Lip service. Nothing more. I hope I'm wrong, but from watching these shysters in the Dail and the Seanad I'm probably right.

If you wanna know what I'm on about, check out this creep:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KcuiGDjvjPI

(Donie Cassidy speaks about the Jack and Jill foundation, but for some reason he thinks it's the Jekyll and Hyde foundation)

billybudd

People do need to face up to their responsibilities but also there needs to be greater open discussion between lender and client, threats just drive people into a cocoon that no one benefits from.

Wertz

foxyboxer wrote: »

On social welfare whilst operating a fruit and veg stall?

Bananas...

joseph brand

noxqs wrote: »

Poor analogy.

Unless a guy jingles the key in front of the barman, looks him straight in the eye and says 'sure I had ten pints but I'm driving home' - I don't see how the barman has any responsibility.

People need to take some personal responsibility. We can't - as a state - community - people - expect to watch everyone like a hawk and interfere in their decisions all the time. And if we did do that, however, people wouldn't accept that either.

Exactly. We're dealing with adults here. It wasn't children taking out mortgages. It was grown adults. Some of them leave a lot to be desired in their mental capacity but hey, 'That's Life'.
If the government started to, for want of a better term, 'micro manage' peoples affairs, because of these people who can't look after their own affairs, that would be far worse. "Big Brother is watching you"

My_left_leg

joseph brand wrote: »

Exactly. We're dealing with adults here. It wasn't children taking out mortgages. It was grown adults. Some of them leave a lot to be desired in their mental capacity but hey, 'That's Life'.
If the government started to, for want of a better term, 'micro manage' peoples affairs, because of these people who can't look after their own affairs, that would be far worse. "Big Brother is watching you"

i agree giving some folk that level of finance is akin to putting an AK47 into the hands of a highly volatile individual(s), but we still need to know how exactly did they manage to get their hands on that AK, and who exactly benefited.:cool:

JoeyJJ

Well it looks like they paid off the mortgage, however if took his life to do it, not the greatest price, i'm sure she wouldn't want to do it over.

Assuming the mortgage company obeyed law and made them get life assurance to cover the mortgage and signed the legal doc to pay the mortgage co first.

ArmaniJeanss

Got my Ulster Bank mortgage through Irish Mortgage Corporation.

It was for about 3.1x salary, and whilst they made it clear that they could push for more from the lenders if wanted, they put me under no pressure to go any higher and did a completely professional job for such a 'small' mortgage.

So from my experience there was no endemic 'lets make people borrow as much as possible' attitude from IMC, but doubtless 'they made me do it' will be the mantra of some borrowers.

Eoin

ArmaniJeanss wrote: »

Got my Ulster Bank mortgage through Irish Mortgage Corporation.

It was for about 3.1x salary, and whilst they made it clear that they could push for more from the lenders if wanted, they put me under no pressure to go any higher and did a completely professional job for such a 'small' mortgage.

So from my experience there was no endemic 'lets make people borrow as much as possible' attitude from IMC, but doubtless 'they made me do it' will be the mantra of some borrowers.

Yeah, just to clarify what I said earlier. They did get approval for 110K more than what we though was comfortable, but there was zero pressure for us to draw down that amount. But even a .25% increase in interest rates would have put us in an uncomfortable position so it was clearly too much for us. The onus was on us to be cautious, and we were. But it's easy to see how people got in over their heads very easily when the money was waved in their faces.

lastlaugh

I was watching the Frontline last night and there was a guy on it complaining that he got a 340K mortgage on an apartment that was now worth, he reckoned, about 90K.

WTF was he doing getting a mortgage for that much for an apartment in the first place?

While I sympathise with people who are in negative equatity who want to start a family and are trapped in some pokey two bedroom box, I find it hard to feel sorry for people who bought places as a status symbol.

the groutch

it's a bit like giving kids sweets, you put two bags of sweets in front of them instead of one, they'll still take the two

My_left_leg

we are in the very fortunate position of being totally debt-free. we bought a shoebox apartment in Dublin in te late '90s and sold it in 2006. we now have a large detached 5 bedroom house. no mortgage.

we were tempted to "go again" and borrow big, but thankfully we decided not to, and instead concentrated instead on clearing our debts. some people were not as astute/lucky as us and have gotten themselves into all sorts of problems.

a very good friend of mine worked as an auctioneer/mortgage broker in Dublin, so i have a good insight as to how these guys operate. from what he tells me to say some of the deals are murky would be an understatement.:)

foxyboxer

Same here. Debt free, single and working. I got lucky. Only started working when the credit bubble started to kick in, so was priced out immediately. No reason for me to buy a house, I am in a position financially where I could do so at current levels. My parents are adamant that I do for some reason.

I am very uncomfortable with the idea of owing someone money, even say €20. I can only consider how stressful a jumbo mortgage would be and consider myself one of the lucky ones. This recession will not change the system.

My_left_leg

foxyboxer wrote: »

Same here. Debt free, single and working. I got lucky. Only started working when the credit bubble started to kick in, so was priced out immediately. No reason for me to buy a house, I am in a position financially where I could do so at current levels. My parents are adamant that I do for some reason.

I am very uncomfortable with the idea of owing someone money, even say €20. I can only consider how stressful a jumbo mortgage would be and consider myself one of the lucky ones. This recession will not change the system.

ask my mate the mortgage broker "what's the best type of mortgage to have?"
he replies, "the one you don't have".:cool:

ArmaniJeanss

foxyboxer wrote: »

No reason for me to buy a house, I am in a position financially where I could do so at current levels. My parents are adamant that I do for some reason.

The Mammy's of Ireland were arguably more at fault than anyone for the housing bubble.

"House prices never go down."
"Get on the ladder as quick as you can."
"Look at that guy David Carter who you went to school with - he didn't get as good a Leaving as you and he has his own house."
"Mrs Murphy next door was saying its strange you don't have a house yet when all 5 of hers do."
"We can give you €15000 as a deposit if you want".
"Rent is dead money".
"Why don't you and her buy a house together, it'd be nice".

Sounds as if they still haven't learned.

Bullseye1

noxqs wrote: »

Why did they take on a 300,000 euro mortgage on social welfare? Never mind they got approved for it. But what did they think was going to happen?

The bigger question is what were the Banks thinking. They are the professionals. They should have said to those people you don't qualify. Instead bank staff were pressured into meeting sales targets and made a huge mess of the mortgage market.

There seems to be a significant number of posters on here who put all the blame on the person who took out the mortgage yet lay no blame at the foot of the banking institutions. Banks should be made take part of the risk when it comes to negative equity and if the house sells for more they share in that too. Of course now that the government has privatised them the public is less likely to support such a practice. The government is also responsible for fueling the property bubble and where only to delighted at taking in the taxes, vats and stamp duty the property market provided.

lastlaugh

ArmaniJeanss wrote: »

The Mammy's of Ireland were arguably more at fault than anyone for the housing bubble.

"House prices never go down."
"Get on the ladder as quick as you can."
"Look at that guy David Carter who you went to school with - he didn't get as good a Leaving as you and he has his own house."
"Mrs Murphy next door was saying its strange you don't have a house yet when all 5 of hers do."
"We can give you €15000 as a deposit if you want".
"Rent is dead money".
"Why don't you and her buy a house together, it'd be nice".

Sounds as if they still haven't learned.

That sounds like a polite way of saying,
"You're old enough now, don't you think it's about time to get the F*ck out of my home and start fending for yourself?"

FetchTheGin

I don't think I will ever want to get a mortgage unless the prices go way down and I have a guaranteed career.

Monty Burnz

noxqs wrote: »

And where is the financial regulator in this? Where is the laws against sub-prime lending and where is the Gardai? And who is the people who bought these loans - I'm sure its the usual bailed out suspects.

The financial regulator was allowed to retire with full benefits by Fianna Failure, and I believe they even gave him a lump sum of 600k plus - all for failing in his job in absolutely epic fashion, and causing untold misery for the Irish people.

Here he is, just before the fantasy of the bubble came crashing down:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UuHRulXfzGA

Monty Burnz

lastlaugh wrote: »

I was watching the Frontline last night and there was a guy on it complaining that he got a 340K mortgage on an apartment that was now worth, he reckoned, about 90K.

WTF was he doing getting a mortgage for that much for an apartment in the first place?

While I sympathise with people who are in negative equatity who want to start a family and are trapped in some pokey two bedroom box, I find it hard to feel sorry for people who bought places as a status symbol.

Presumably he reckoned he was getting a good deal at 340k when he signed the papers. He was wrong. I don't see why that is our problem.

I thought I was getting a good deal when I bought shares in Parthus technologies in 2001. They lost a lot of value. Where's my NAMA?

lastlaugh

Monty Burnz wrote: »

Presumably he reckoned he was getting a good deal at 340k when he signed the papers. He was wrong. I don't see why that is our problem.

That's the problem though, the monthly repayments on that must be over 1,500 a month! That's crazy altogether.

People lost the run of themselves and sense went/and is still going out the window.

There is a girl in work who drives a big '09 VW Passat, must cost her a lot in monthly repayments over a few years. The same girl is saying she is being threatened to have her Gas and Electricity cut off because she can't pay the bills, and she says it as if it isn't her fault?
Why the F*ck do you have such an expensive car so?

I remember when the 'Boom' was in full swing, a plonker in work was bragging about how much of a mortgage he had got approval for, as if it was he felt he was 'more important' because he could 'afford' something astronomically expensive.

I have no sympathy for people who spend completely wrecklessly.

foxyboxer

Monty Burnz wrote: »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UuHRulXfzGA

Michael Lewis summed it up perfectly in Vanity Fair.

Here he was, on their televisions, insisting that the Irish banks were “resilient” and “more than adequately capitalized” … when everyone in Ireland could see, in the vacant skyscrapers and empty housing developments around them, evidence of bank loans that were not merely bad but insane. “What happened was that everyone in Ireland had the idea that somewhere in Ireland there was a little wise old man who was in charge of the money, and this was the first time they’d ever seen this little man,” says [Colm] McCarthy. “And then they saw him and said, Who the **** was that??? Is that the ****ing guy who is in charge of the money??? That’s when everyone panicked.” ….

The Left Hand Of God

I think anyone who was rang up by a bank and talked into taking a mortgage out should be given some sort of debt forgiveness.

Anyone who went looking for a mortgage of their own free will and sat their ass down in front of someone and asked for one...well they can go whistle tbh.

Personal culpability and all that.

And I don't give a sh1te what they whistle either. Though I recommend the Lonesome Boat man as a good whistling toon.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F8rULrp_J5E

tonsiltickler

The boom was disgustingly irresponsible. You had mortgage brokers who had to sell sell sell. They didn't do any fact finding for the most part. You wanted a mortgage, you got it simple as. It wasn't a bank manager looking carefully over your savings, earnings and other investments, it was a sleazy salesperson trying to get dat comish.

The brokers didn't come up with the money for the loans, the banks did. Package a hundred mortgages together and sell the debt as a security which were seen as rock solid investment opportunities.

Saying that, anyone who is on social welfare and thinks they can afford a 300 grand mortgage is off their t*ts. Anyone who got one of these loans is definitely responsible to a slightly lesser degree, but still....

My_left_leg

Jail those scummy brokers!

dj jarvis

Wertz wrote: »

...and yet in some other countries, the barman can indeed be held responsible for someone that has drank too much, caused an accident whilst drink driving or similar.
Part fo the problem with how mortgages are/were doled out (no pun intended) in this country is due to a commission based system and the apparent fact that the lender isn't as concerned about the actual value of the asset they're loaning the money for...

If I was to loan you the money to buy a car, I'd damn well want to know that that car was actually worth the money I was loaing you and wasn't some tarted up lemon, just in case I had to take it off you as part of the debt if your loan went bad...but even more than that I'd want to be sure that you could actually pay me back the price of that car plus the agreed interest.
The thing is that these broekers didn't care because it's not their money they're loaning...they get their % no matter what...and if the sh*t hits the fan the company goes under or gets bailed out.

How the hell was someone reselling fruit and veg and his wife on the scratcher going to pay back a 300K loan???
Takes two to tango here and I have to blame the people who leant it as much as the people who borrowed it.

yea but only one person here lost their life because of this stupidity

and it was not the broker or the regulator

this is bull**** blaming the borrower - people are stupid
couple that with money and its a recipe for disaster

that is why we were supposed to have a regulator and laws to protect people from themselves
in this case and many many others the protectors turned their backs while the money vultures prayed on this ill informed and ill equipped couple

people have short memory's - don't forget the near universal feeling that the good times were not going to end - they probably really thought they were going to be able to pay this back


all well and good sitting on your pc having no sympathy for these people ,
but they made a bad financial decision - guided by " professionals " and one of them ended up dead - you people make me sick

lets hope you all never make a bad decision that cost's you your life

fontanalis

My_left_leg wrote: »

we are in the very fortunate position of being totally debt-free. we bought a shoebox apartment in Dublin in te late '90s and sold it in 2006. we now have a large detached 5 bedroom house. no mortgage.

we were tempted to "go again" and borrow big, but thankfully we decided not to, and instead concentrated instead on clearing our debts. some people were not as astute/lucky as us and have gotten themselves into all sorts of problems.

a very good friend of mine worked as an auctioneer/mortgage broker in Dublin, so i have a good insight as to how these guys operate. from what he tells me to say some of the deals are murky would be an understatement.:)

Out of intrest did he say if he or any of his colleagues invested in property? I'd say some aucioneers must have done very well if they didn;t blow their cash on property.