Court Summons and 4 penalty points

Finto45

Hi,
I have a court appearance in a month's time where I face a charge for driving without due consideration.
I have not been given an option to pay a fine.
What advice would you give to me? It's my first court appearance, 10 years on the bike commuting and no previous accidents, convictions or points.
The gardai are taking this to court because I hit a pedestrian crossing between cars. I was going at walking speed myself, filtering between cars and approaching a red light (where there was no pedestrian crossing). It was dark and damp. I took the precaution of moving very slowly through cars that were at standstill. The pedestrian appeared between two cars looking the other way to see if it was "safe" to continue crossing.
Am I looking at 4 points irrespective of my story? Is my insurance going to be hiked as a result?
Any help gratefully received.
Thanks.

Del2005

Get a decent solicitor who specialises in motoring offences.

eurofoxy

as del says get a legal advice, it is going to cost but they will at least tell you where you stand....

BlackWizard

Wow that just sounds really unfair. I wonder if the cost of a solicitor outweighs the costs of getting 4 points and I presume a fine?

RosieJoe

Ask in the Legal Discussion forum for some guidance, see here

Cuddlesworth

Finto45 wrote: »

Hi,
I have a court appearance in a month's time where I face a charge for driving without due consideration.
I have not been given an option to pay a fine.
What advice would you give to me? It's my first court appearance, 10 years on the bike commuting and no previous accidents, convictions or points.
The gardai are taking this to court because I hit a pedestrian crossing between cars. I was going at walking speed myself, filtering between cars and approaching a red light (where there was no pedestrian crossing). It was dark and damp. I took the precaution of moving very slowly through cars that were at standstill. The pedestrian appeared between two cars looking the other way to see if it was "safe" to continue crossing.
Am I looking at 4 points irrespective of my story? Is my insurance going to be hiked as a result?
Any help gratefully received.
Thanks.

If that is how it went down and that's the statement you gave, take the points and the fine.White its unfair, you were in the wrong in the eyes of the law and the judge will rule against you.

If the pedestrian makes a claim then you have two options. Pay back the insurance company the full amount and keep your no-claims and low premiums. Or take the hit, lose your no-claims and with a claim on your account your base rate goes up.

Johnnyq79

as far as i know, you need to be given the option of an FCPS with a 'driving without due care and attention' charge. if it is the case that you got a direct summons, i think it is wrong. i'd say you'd get that thrown out if you made that point to the judge. FCPS tickets were brought it to remove such a minor charge from the courts. Just one to thing to keep in mind. Would it have been the case that the FCPS was issue but you never received the ticket.

Del2005

Johnnyq79 wrote: »

as far as i know, you need to be given the option of an FCPS with a 'driving without due care and attention' charge. if it is the case that you got a direct summons, i think it is wrong. i'd say you'd get that thrown out if you made that point to the judge. FCPS tickets were brought it to remove such a minor charge from the courts. Just one to thing to keep in mind. Would it have been the case that the FCPS was issue but you never received the ticket.

That's why the OP needs to get a decent solicitor. Too many people get themselves into extra trouble with Judges with half informed advice.

Biker.ie

Tell them the Pedestrian came out of nowhere and ran into you, unless a Guard actually witnessed the whole thing you'll be grand.

User Friendly

Cuddlesworth wrote: »

If that is how it went down and that's the statement you gave, take the points and the fine.White its unfair, you were in the wrong in the eyes of the law and the judge will rule against you.

If the pedestrian makes a claim then you have two options. Pay back the insurance company the full amount and keep your no-claims and low premiums. Or take the hit, lose your no-claims and with a claim on your account your base rate goes up.

i have to say im astounded by this advice.

so when the OP gets new insurance and they ask him the usual,"any claims accidents or convictions in the past 5 years"
what do you then suggest he says?

Assume nothing OP,the best advice has already been said,get representation from a decent solicitor.

Cuddlesworth

User Friendly wrote: »

i have to say im astounded by this advice.

so when the OP gets new insurance and they ask him the usual,"any claims accidents or convictions in the past 5 years"
what do you then suggest he says?

Assume nothing OP,the best advice has already been said,get representation from a decent solicitor.

He says I have a accident which I paid back in full. Its up to the insurance company but I don't know any in Ireland which wouldn't let you. Keep in mind that in 90% of cases anything over 2k isn't worth paying as it saves you no money.

two wheels good

Consult a solicitor is good advice. You don't want the conviction on your record regardless of the size of fine or the points expiring.

I recommend you ask the solicitor what experience he\she has with similar cases and you ask for estimate of the costs. Don't be shy about pressing for details.
Go prepared with as much relevant data as possible written out clearly e.g. measure the distance to the pedestrian crossing, were you between lanes or on the centre line, was it solid or broken etc. Do you have any witness?

(I'm curious how the garda was called. Was the pedestrian injured or create a fuss?)

reece

if it went down the way you say then the ped was at fault and should have been done for causing danger to traffic. Filtering is perfectly legal. Judge will probably side with the guards, whom are looking for the easy conviction. With a good solicitor you could probably get access to witness statements so that you know where you stand before hand. Don't hold much faith in the legal system so good luck.

Finto45

Thanks all for the input and advice.
I am seeking legal advice at the moment.
I will post the outcome next month...

Jackasaurus rex

a junky got clattered by my vespa a while ago but the guards agreed it wasn't my fault so no charges. still getting sued though. expect it mate

Green_Martian

Jackasaurus rex wrote: »

a junky got clattered by my vespa a while ago but the guards agreed it wasn't my fault so no charges. still getting sued though. expect it mate

Typical of this country, you were not charged with the offence but Mr Junkbag is able to sue you. I would assume you are in employment and working your arse off while this Junkbag strolls around the city out of thier brain and they are able to sue you what a joke

Jackasaurus rex

Green_Martian wrote: »

Typical of this country, you were not charged with the offence but Mr Junkbag is able to sue you. I would assume you are in employment and working your arse off while this Junkbag strolls around the city out of thier brain and they are able to sue you what a joke

Yep, now my insurance is nearly a thousand quid for 3rd party on a px200 on a full licence. No claims bonus axed because there is a claim outstanding. And all because some gearbag didnt want to wait for the green man

Green_Martian

Jackasaurus rex wrote: »

Yep, now my insurance is nearly a thousand quid for 3rd party on a px200 on a full licence. No claims bonus axed because there is a claim outstanding. And all because some gearbag didnt want to wait for the green man

If it turns out they are not successful in sueing you do you get your no claims back??? and what happens to the extra premiums you pay in the mean time will they refund it??

jackhammer

Cuddlesworth wrote: »

He says I have a accident which I paid back in full. Its up to the insurance company but I don't know any in Ireland which wouldn't let you. Keep in mind that in 90% of cases anything over 2k isn't worth paying as it saves you no money.

Paying it back in full will not make a difference. The new insurance company will still load him because he confirmed that he had a accident.

subway

Green_Martian wrote: »

If it turns out they are not successful in sueing you do you get your no claims back??? and what happens to the extra premiums you pay in the mean time will they refund it??

no, they just keep the extra money.

subway

jackhammer wrote: »

Paying it back in full will not make a difference. The new insurance company will still load him because he confirmed that he had a accident.

they wont, when the guy asks did you have an accident, make sure you explain clearly that you had one, but it was settled with no claim against your insurance.
they wont give a hoot then.

Cuddlesworth

jackhammer wrote: »

Paying it back in full will not make a difference. The new insurance company will still load him because he confirmed that he had a accident.

Loading on a confirmed low amount accident is negligible. And your still issued with a no-claims from your current insurer.

seanybiker

Jackasaurus rex wrote: »

a junky got clattered by my vespa a while ago but the guards agreed it wasn't my fault so no charges. still getting sued though. expect it mate

Jesus that's disgraceful. I hope you at least gave him a good slap with the vespa.

User Friendly

seanybiker wrote: »

Jesus that's disgraceful. I hope you at least gave him a good slap with the vespa.

:rolleyes:

Jackasaurus rex

well a scrawny skaghead doesn't do well against 100kg of steel bodied 2stroke. we shall leave it at that, as the claim is outstanding.

Keith186

Isn't it ironic that you're the one getting charged with driving without due care and attention when all the negligence is on the part of the pedestrian.

If you were filtering at walking speed I would regard that as driving with consideration and attention and I would argue to the Garda that the charge should be dropped.

It's not the claim you need to be worried about, having this endorsement on your licence could get you a 100% loading I would guess.

Plus you should definitely not pay money back to the insurance company, that's what insurance is for. It's only useful to do this if you tap someone's car or break a wing mirror and give them the money to fix it and no insurance details are swapped. As it stands your claim is registered now and whether or not you paid the money back you would have to declare that you've had an accident so they won't give you the no claims bonus discount, your NCB Protection is only good with your current insurer.

I've seen someone else on boards who had a claim with FBD, switched to nononsense.ie and gave them their 5 years NCB cert to nononsense but then it was cancelled by them a few weeks later because it was discovered he had a claim with FBD. Nononsense is even underwritten by FBD so the NCB Protection wasn't even of any use with the same insurer.

mb1725

Not one poster has asked how the pedestrian was. That will have a bearing on the judge's decision. The law of the jungle will apply here legally speaking, pedestrian is more vulnerable than bike same way as bike is more vulnerable than car etc.

faceman

Keith186 wrote: »

Isn't it ironic that you're the one getting charged with driving without due care and attention when all the negligence is on the part of the pedestrian.

In the eyes of the court, they wont care. It could have been a child crossing the road.

RosieJoe

faceman wrote: »

In the eyes of the court, they wont care. It could have been a child crossing the road.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qh2sWSVRrmo

Del2005

mb1725 wrote: »

Not one poster has asked how the pedestrian was.

This isn't the pedestrian forum, we only worry about bikers here.

mb1725 wrote: »

That will have a bearing on the judge's decision. The law of the jungle will apply here legally speaking, pedestrian is more vulnerable than bike same way as bike is more vulnerable than car etc.

Someone crosses the road without looking and the person they hit gets the blame, you gotta love this country.

The pedestrian should have being wearing HiViz and then the OP would seen them from miles away and avoided being walked into.

Cuddlesworth

Del2005 wrote: »

The pedestrian should have being wearing HiViz and then the OP would seen them from miles away and avoided being walked into.

This is sarcasm right?