Can you get done for sitting in your own car while drunk?

Silent Runner

I was out in the town at the weekend. We drove up to a friends house. Later on that night I came back to the house but no one was there, so I decided to sit in my car and eat my take away. Anyways my friends said I could have been done for drink driving, even though I had no intention of driving, and I'd never take a drink and drive. Strangley this house was close to a garda station, so I was very lucky, especially since my driving is essential for my job.

I just can't believe I could have been got for drink driving for this.

donmeister

You can get done only if your keys are in the ignition afaik.

dev100

If you were in someones driveway and not on a public road youd be okay. As Domeister said as long as your keys arent in ignition your okay.

slimjimmc

If you were parked in a public place and a Gardaí formed the opinion you had intent to drive then you could have been arrested for intent to drive while intoxicated. For example if you were parked on the road or in the car park of an apartment complex and sitting in the driver's seat with the keys in your pocket then a Garda could easily think you intended to drive. They don't actually have to be in the ignition because it's so easy to take them out of your pocket.
If the car was in the private driveway of the house then no problem.

Silent Runner

This was on a public street and I kept my keys in my pocket. My car was parked on the other side of the road to the house

slimjimmc

Silent Runner wrote: »

This was on a public street and I kept my keys in my pocket. My car was parked on the other side of the road to the house

You were vulnerable then, if a Garda considered you a potential dd'er.

alexr1

You can definitely get done for this.
A friend of mine got done for exactly this.
He was sleeping in the car,two gardai came up knocked on the window and woke him up,breathilised him and lost his licence for 2 years.
Whether you are in the back seat or the drivers seat you can be done.
You are seen as being under the influence in control of a vehicle.

I was telling a friend of mine about this who is a garda and he said if someone was sleeping in the back of a campervan and over the limit they can actually be done for same.

BrokenArrows

alexr1 wrote: »

I was telling a friend of mine about this who is a garda and he said if someone was sleeping in the back of a campervan and over the limit they can actually be done for same.

That's crazy.
Id understand if they were in the drivers seat but the passenger seat or back seat or campervan. The cop would want to be some anal ****er to try and get an arrest for that.

dev100

alexr1 wrote: »

You can definitely get done for this.
A friend of mine got done for exactly this.
He was sleeping in the car,two gardai came up knocked on the window and woke him up,breathilised him and lost his licence for 2 years.
Whether you are in the back seat or the drivers seat you can be done.
You are seen as being under the influence in control of a vehicle.

I was telling a friend of mine about this who is a garda and he said if someone was sleeping in the back of a campervan and over the limit they can actually be done for same.

Really had your mate ever been in trouble with Gardaí before? gave them cheek ever before? Had he parked the car in the vicinity of the pub or was he parked miles away that it may have been percieved he had drove away from the pub under the influence and parked up? If not he was an unlucky man ? Surely a good lawyer/barrister would have taking care of this


Is a campervan not considered a home? What right would a guard to bang on your door and tell you Under section of

---

I want to breathalyse you?

Mod
Post amended. No "rozzers" here

Delancey

My understanding is that the keys do not have to be in the ignition to get you in trouble - mere possession of the keys is enough to land you in it .

Anyone able to confirm ?

dev100

Delancey wrote: »

My understanding is that the keys do not have to be in the ignition to get you in trouble - mere possession of the keys is enough to land you in it .

Anyone able to confirm ?

My brother works with cops Ill get him to ask tomorrow

MagicSean

donmeister wrote: »

You can get done only if your keys are in the ignition afaik.

dev100 wrote: »

As Domeister said as long as your keys arent in ignition your okay.

This is how people get into trouble. Your keys don't have to be in the ignition. If they are it just makes it a more easy case to prove. It's all about proving intention to drive.

dev100

MagicSean wrote: »

This is how people get into trouble. Your keys don't have to be in the ignition. If they are it just makes it a more easy case to prove. It's all about proving intention to drive.

So if im in a coma car full of condensation. Does that imply intention to drive??? Hey look If for example John smith had a skinfull of beer in the local had parked the car a little bit outside the town to drive home or had drove car few mile down the road drunk pulled over to sleep it off and the coppers know this man and his antics then yes you are right for both examples he deserves to get arrested.

Most guards know if you aint acting the mick theyll leave you alone.

Are you a Garda yourself?

Oddjob

My understanding was that you put the keys in the boot, just to be safe.

Delancey

I'm not sure that '' intention to drive '' is the key here , I thought the offence in these circumstances would be that of being Drunk In Charge of a Motor Vehicle.
Thats what makes possession of the keys so important.

theteal

what the creepin bejeazis is a 'rozzer'?

Ben Moore

Yup when i first started to drive (more than fifteen years ago) i was told this, so if you are planning to hang out on your car while drunk I would give your keys to somebody who is not in the car with you.

dev100

Delancey wrote: »

I'm not sure that '' intention to drive '' is the key here , I thought the offence in these circumstances would be that of being Drunk In Charge of a Motor Vehicle.
Thats what makes possession of the keys so important.

Need a guards opinion.. but lets use your example of being in charge of vehicle. Even if you hadnt got the keys in the car. Your still in charge of the car as in you could let down the handbrake and pop it out of gear roll it down the road. So can you still be done ??? I would think so.

dev100

theteal wrote: »

what the creepin bejeazis is a 'rozzer'?

An english phrase I picked up off the telly A Guard

mikemac

So it's a winter night and you can't sit in the car and turn on the heater and play some quiet music to rest and sleep it off?

Harsh law

Bosco boy

dev100 wrote: »

theteal wrote: »

what the creepin bejeazis is a 'rozzer'?

An english phrase I picked up off the telly A Guard

watch a little less telly or watch it later in the day, that jeremy Kyle show has a lot to answer for!

krissovo

alexr1 wrote: »

I was telling a friend of mine about this who is a garda and he said if someone was sleeping in the back of a campervan and over the limit they can actually be done for same.

The law is not exactly clear on this, I have a camper and after some close calls I have welded in a safe to take it beyond any reasonable doubt of my intentions. If I have a few pints the keys get locked in the safe. If the Garda investigate and they have a few times especially when camped in a city I point them to my safe and they usually go away happy. Twice they have taken the keys and I have had to collect them when sober.

I have slept in my car a few times as well, I normally place the keys as far away from me as possible so if investigated I can claim I have innocent intentions. Once the keys were taken from me to the local Garda station and I collected them in the morning.

slimjimmc

Delancey wrote: »

I'm not sure that '' intention to drive '' is the key here , I thought the offence in these circumstances would be that of being Drunk In Charge of a Motor Vehicle.
Thats what makes possession of the keys so important.

Intent is an integral part of the offence, as well as being in charge and being over the legal alcohol limit.

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/2010/en/act/pub/0025/sec0005.html

5.— (1) A person commits an offence if, when in charge of a mechanically propelled vehicle in a public place with intent to drive or attempt to drive the vehicle (but not driving or attempting to drive it), he or she is under the influence of an intoxicant to such an extent as to be incapable of having proper control of the vehicle.
:
:

Rippy

I slept in my van on Saturday night after a few pints at a gig.
I was partly undressed ( jeans and shoes off) in a sleeping bag on a camping mat in the back . Doors were locked ( for security) using the keyfob central locking. There is a full bulk head in the van. The keys were placed on a shelf in the back. The van was on the street in a quiet square off the town centre.
If some petty minded eejit of a guard had tried to do me for it would he have had a chance in court? There was no intent to drive under the influence so how could he prove that part of the act in court?

dev100

krissovo wrote: »

The law is not exactly clear on this, I have a camper and after some close calls I have welded in a safe to take it beyond any reasonable doubt of my intentions. If I have a few pints the keys get locked in the safe. If the Garda investigate and they have a few times especially when camped in a city I point them to my safe and they usually go away happy. Twice they have taken the keys and I have had to collect them when sober.

I have slept in my car a few times as well, I normally place the keys as far away from me as possible so if investigated I can claim I have innocent intentions. Once the keys were taken from me to the local Garda station and I collected them in the morning.

When you say investigate what do you mean? A guard banging on your camper at 3 or 4 in the morning .You opening up the door in your underpants and asking whats up?

Milk & Honey

Rippy wrote: »

I slept in my van on Saturday night after a few pints at a gig.
I was partly undressed ( jeans and shoes off) in a sleeping bag on a camping mat in the back . Doors were locked ( for security) using the keyfob central locking. There is a full bulk head in the van. The keys were placed on a shelf in the back. The van was on the street in a quiet square off the town centre.
If some petty minded eejit of a guard had tried to do me for it would he have had a chance in court? There was no intent to drive under the influence so how could he prove that part of the act in court?

There is a presumption that if you are in charge of a vehicle you intend to drive it. You presumably intended to drive the vehicle in the morning. The intention to drive does not have to be immediate. If you are going to sleep in a vehicle make sure you are not in a public place. Drive on to private property and park. You can sleep away as drunk as you like and will not be committing an offence.

BANZAI_RUNNER

I have been told by a member of the Gardai , that if you do intend to hang out in your car, after a night out, then get into the passenger seat and keep your keys in your pocket, the same applies if you are driving long distance and feel tired and decide to take a quick nap . Obviously, it will be ultimately down to the Garda at the time

R P McMurphy

Suppose with keyless entry and start the idea of keeping keys on your pocket is becoming redundent. Probably best as poster above said to sit in passanger seat

Kosseegan

BANZAI_RUNNER wrote: »

I have been told by a member of the Gardai , that if you do intend to hang out in your car, after a night out, then get into the passenger seat and keep your keys in your pocket, the same applies if you are driving long distance and feel tired and decide to take a quick nap . Obviously, it will be ultimately down to the Garda at the time

This is dangerous advice. The driver is still in charge of the car. What seat they are in doe not change that. The only thing it does is make it easier the presumption of an intent to drive. The other problem is that if someone is arrssted and breathalysed the guard might well tell a lie about where the person was in the car. The chances of the driver being believed are zilch. Trespasing on private property is a much better idea.

Rippy

Milk & Honey wrote: »

There is a presumption that if you are in charge of a vehicle you intend to drive it. You presumably intended to drive the vehicle in the morning. The intention to drive does not have to be immediate. If you are going to sleep in a vehicle make sure you are not in a public place. Drive on to private property and park. You can sleep away as drunk as you like and will not be committing an offence.

The 'intention to drive ' is totally ambiguous. Sure I intended to ( and did ) drive late the next morning. I had no 'intention to drive ' while intoxicated.
What if my intention to drive was in a weeks time?
Surely the meaning of the statute is 'Intention to drive' while over prescribed alcohol limit?
I just could not see such a conviction standing in am Irish court.
I would certainly plead not guilty under the circumstances given.

Kosseegan

Rippy wrote: »

The 'intention to drive ' is totally ambiguous. Sure I intended to ( and did ) drive late the next morning. I had no 'intention to drive ' while intoxicated.
What if my intention to drive was in a weeks time?
Surely the meaning of the statute is 'Intention to drive' while over prescribed alcohol limit?
I just could not see such a conviction standing in am Irish court.
I would certainly plead not guilty under the circumstances given.

The case law holds that it is a matter for the District Court to decide on the evidence if there was an intention to drive. You can plead not guilty but individuals have been convicted even when they were found asleep in the car.

http://www.ipsofactoj.com/international/2003/Part01/int2003%281%29-011.htm

slimjimmc

Rippy wrote: »

The 'intention to drive ' is totally ambiguous. Sure I intended to ( and did ) drive late the next morning. I had no 'intention to drive ' while intoxicated.
What if my intention to drive was in a weeks time?
Surely the meaning of the statute is 'Intention to drive' while over prescribed alcohol limit?
I just could not see such a conviction standing in am Irish court.
I would certainly plead not guilty under the circumstances given.

It's not ambiguous, an intoxicant is required and the legislation I linked previously clearly specifies the quantity limits and time limits.

rom

There is the gob****e who parks on the road outside my house for the last month. Plays music and drinks cans all night in the car and is hone in the morning. So rang the gaurds as he is taking the piss like. Think he has a hard on for your one living next door or something. The Gaurd said "Until he commits an offence they can't do anything." I repied "So you are tell me that sitting behind a wheel of a car drinking cans with the keys in the ignition is not an offence".

bath handle

rom wrote: »

There is the gob****e who parks on the road outside my house for the last month. Plays music and drinks cans all night in the car and is hone in the morning. So rang the gaurds as he is taking the piss like. Think he has a hard on for your one living next door or something. The Gaurd said "Until he commits an offence they can't do anything." I repied "So you are tell me that sitting behind a wheel of a car drinking cans with the keys in the ignition is not an offence".

Your point being?

harney

bath handle wrote: »

Your point being?

I took from that he has a hot next door neighbour.

Does it not take up to 15 hours for all the alcohol to leave your blood stream, or is that a myth?

castlepoint

Guy i know got done asleep in drivers seat parked in petrol station morning after while workmate went in to get coffee and rolls.

Zambia

harney wrote: »

I took from that he has a hot next door neighbour.

Does it not take up to 15 hours for all the alcohol to leave your blood stream, or is that a myth?

That would depend on the amount drunk.

But it would be a fair amount considering 1 Standard drink should be gone per hour.

So if in one hour you drink 15 shots of vodka. 15 hours later you should be right.

Of course other factors like weight, size food intake etc come into it.

Reloc8

Delancey wrote: »

My understanding is that the keys do not have to be in the ignition to get you in trouble - mere possession of the keys is enough to land you in it .

Anyone able to confirm ?

Correct.

In a prosecution for S. 50 drunk in charge, it is presumed until the contrary is shown that the defendant intends to drive.

This is usually done by the defendant giving evidence as to his intention.

Things which bear on intention could be where the car was (outside the defendant's home/destination for the evening), where the keys were (in his hands, in the ignition, in the boot), the other circumstances of the case (engine running, accused in drivers seat, indicating to pull out versus engine off and no heat from it, accused in car, keys in the boot).

That's very much non exhaustive but clearly the closer the connection between the defendant and an act connected with driving the vehicle the more difficult it is to raise a doubt that he or she intended to drive.

As the caselaw shows, cases hinge very much on their particular facts.

tipper2001

if your keys are in the ignition , then a garda can say you had the intention to drive, there reason is , if you had no intention why put the keys there, the worst thing you could do is be smart

Jkup

I know it's an old post but the law wouldn't have changed in 5 years if at all.

Say, I have a safety deposit box where I have locked my key in the trunk of my car. The safety deposit box can only be opened with my fingerprint and with a device measuring a safe level of alcohol in my blood. Is there a chance that there exists evidence in this case that I intended be in control while drunk?

Sono

Jkup wrote: »

I know it's an old post but the law wouldn't have changed in 5 years if at all.

Say, I have a safety deposit box where I have locked my key in the trunk of my car. The safety deposit box can only be opened with my fingerprint and with a device measuring a safe level of alcohol in my blood. Is there a chance that there exists evidence in this case that I intended be in control while drunk?

What?

nuac

Mod
Closing this thread because
1. legal positions may have changed
2. Some of the 2011 posters have closed accounts
and, btw, in this country we have Gardaí, not "cops" and certainly not "rozzers"
anyone interested may open a new thread