New whip rules.

afterburn1

I'm afraid the British horse racing board has completely lost the plot on this issue. The have bent over backwards to accommodate the animal welfare mob who know nothing about racing and the need for a whip. There will be an awful lot of horses beaten now because of the new rules and the penalties that go with it. At this rate we might as well cancel all horse racing and just leave the Virtual rubbish. That should keep the muppets happy. At least the Irish authorities haven't jumped on the bandwagon. Let's hope that continues. Guarantee at least part of these new rules will be abolished within 12 months.:mad:

ROCKMAN

looking at today races so far ,The fields seem to strung out (more so then normal ),A lot of the races seem to be over in a way at or by the 1F pole ,very few horses coming from behind (ok frankie did )
Will be very interesting tomorrow over the jumps

Will be front runners for me ,especially over fences ,well at least till it claims down.


Ps think the Irish stance is a good thing

JimDeChamp

It's going to be very easy stop one now

mr.jingle

Kieran Fox gets a 15 day ban and Richard Hughes a 5 day ban at Salisbury today to become the first jockeys suspended over the new whip rules. Dettori said he was scared about riding his horse today as he thinking too much on how many times he'd whipped the horse!

The rules for the jumps are bloody ridiculous in context to the flat. A 3 mile chase and your only allowed 8 hits of the whip yet a 5 furlong sprint 7 hits:eek: Are they for real!

I'm afraid to say it but this could well lead to more corruption in horse racing

UrbanSea

Absolutely crazy.

And Frankie supported it. Sure he's the most high profile case for it.

Juwwi

Cheltenham will be interesting this year.

The Irish lads will have a field day I'd say breaking the rules.

Its hard to imagine a low profile jockey worrying too much about a ban.

ROCKMAN

robbie1977 wrote: »

Cheltenham will be interesting this year.

The Irish lads will have a field day I'd say breaking the rules.
Its hard to imagine a low profile jockey worrying too much about a ban.

Good point ..
I take it that any ban for an irish jockey would not come into effect here. Is it just Ireland that will not recognise these bans ?
I ask because someone on At the Races yesterday said that if Hughes had got 10 days he would have miss the big American race meeting coming up ...

Slattsy

UrbanSea wrote: »

Absolutely crazy.

And Frankie supported it. Sure he's the most high profile case for it.

Howya Urban.

Frankie came out this morning and said the new rules are very hard to follow.
Anyway that fella tries so hard to make himself popular he basically had to support the BHA.

What this new rules means to me now is this - I'll be avoiding backing any horse that needs a bit of driving along a few furlongs out ie your typical Mark Johnston type horse, don't back Spencer as he usually batters a horse, its going to be hard to come from behind unless you're on a horse that travels well and to look out for horses that can travel well from the front.

Fin

mike65

Tony McCoy back the new rules.

afterburn1

I actually had 3 bets yesterday. Two of which lost because the jockeys hardly used the whip at all ( Quarrell 2.10 and no compromise 2.20) and one which won because he overused it according to the stewards who have probably never sat on a horse ( orthodox lad 5.00 ). The punting game has just got a whole lot more difficult. Some horses need a lot of driving, some don't. Fact!

sting60

What a load of boll.. the whip ban was introduced on the grounds of the care and wellbeen of the racehorse.I have contacted by phone and mail the BHA with regards this matter.My question in short, If the BHA are serious about the welfare of the the horse why have they not investigated the forty percent of all racehorses born not to have got to the track.Where are the tens of thousands of these missing horses.As yet the BHA have refused to answer my calls [after initial call]and have not replied to my mails.I have mailed Matt Chapman on Atheraces on Sky with no responce.This is the real welfare of the racehorse which needs addressing but if the carpet is big enough it can and will be swept under it.I am now composing a mail for Mr Chapman and will listen to see if its read out???

mike65

Its seems from now on naturally quick, fluent jumpers are the only horses to back even if they might be considered on form or weight at a disadvantage. Or better still don't back anything for a while and just see what happens. We might see certain jockeys struggle but others thrive.

afterburn1

Orthodox Lads owner is speaking on atheraces at the moment. Understandably he though it was a fantastic ride and feels sorry for kieran fox. It's quite simple in my view. If a horse is responding to the whip then there should be no set amount of times you can use it. If on the other hand the horse is clearly not responding then you shouldn't use the stick after the initial couple of cracks.

Slattsy

sting60 wrote: »

What a load of boll.. the whip ban was introduced on the grounds of the care and wellbeen of the racehorse.I have contacted by phone and mail the BHA with regards this matter.My question in short, If the BHA are serious about the welfare of the the horse why have they not investigated the forty percent of all racehorses born not to have got to the track.Where are the tens of thousands of these missing horses.As yet the BHA have refused to answer my calls [after initial call]and have not replied to my mails.I have mailed Matt Chapman on Atheraces on Sky with no responce.This is the real welfare of the racehorse which needs addressing but if the carpet is big enough it can and will be swept under it.I am now composing a mail for Mr Chapman and will listen to see if its read out???

Fair play to Matt Chapman for not reading out your email. I hope you don't get any air time, and that includes from me after this response. This thread was about the new whip rules. Slan
Fin.

afterburn1

mike65 wrote: »

Tony McCoy back the new rules.

Don't see that lasting to be honest. How long before someone comes up with a sensor that beeps when the set amount of taps are applied. Maybe we could patent it.:D

mike65

The whip has a sensor in it now! Its used to indicate when the whip is "finished" and needs replacement.

UrbanSea

Slattsy wrote: »

Howya Urban.

Frankie came out this morning and said the new rules are very hard to follow.
Anyway that fella tries so hard to make himself popular he basically had to support the BHA.

What this new rules means to me now is this - I'll be avoiding backing any horse that needs a bit of driving along a few furlongs out ie your typical Mark Johnston type horse, don't back Spencer as he usually batters a horse, its going to be hard to come from behind unless you're on a horse that travels well and to look out for horses that can travel well from the front.

Fin

Didn't think about Frankie's like that but it's probably true,wanted a few brownie points.

It's only going to make betting so much harder.

sting60

This issue is as much about the whip as it is about the modifications to the fences at Aintree.The problem for some is they fail to see that this controversy is about the welfare of the racehorse.Every aspect of the welfare of the horse is now on the table for discussion and people who think its an issue about a whip should go to mistress Olivia in Baggot street.

sting60

Slattsy wrote: »

Howya Urban.

Frankie came out this morning and said the new rules are very hard to follow.
Anyway that fella tries so hard to make himself popular he basically had to support the BHA.

What this new rules means to me now is this - I'll be avoiding backing any horse that needs a bit of driving along a few furlongs out ie your typical Mark Johnston type horse, don't back Spencer as he usually batters a horse, its going to be hard to come from behind unless you're on a horse that travels well and to look out for horses that can travel well from the front.
Total nonsence.Firstly Jamie Spencers total bans over the last 5 years is far less than any other top jockey,first load of rubbish.Second load of rubbish is look at todays races and lots of winners came from behind .Do you really know what your saying because im here for years watching really good points you are a complete fool.There are people on this site making great points and you try to undermine me,my god.Only top men on this site need reply.

UnitedIrishman

These new rules are a joke to be fair and some jockeys are going to clock up some serious bans or just lose races they're would normally win. As Richard Hughes said in the Racing Post, the whip doesn't hurt the horse - the horse responds to the sound of the whip. He even stated he'd bare his arsé in public and allow it to be whipped to show that it doesn't hurt.

Where does the line be drawn on not riding the horse out and over-whipping the horse?

What happens if the horse veers in one direction or another and you've used your allocation as happened Hughes yesterday? Or what happens when a jockey tries to use that as an excuse after a race for using the whip too much?

It's going to ruin racing IMO. How many times have we seen AP carry a horse around giving him reminders for 2 miles before managing to get him up. To this day, the best ride I've ever seen in a big race was McCoy on Witchita Lineman in Cheltenham a few years ago and he'd have gotten a nice ban for that ride under present rules given how many times he hit him from the start of the turn for home.

Slattsy

UnitedIrishman wrote: »

These new rules are a joke to be fair and some jockeys are going to clock up some serious bans or just lose races they're would normally win. As Richard Hughes said in the Racing Post, the whip doesn't hurt the horse - the horse responds to the sound of the whip. He even stated he'd bare his arsé in public and allow it to be whipped to show that it doesn't hurt.

Where does the line be drawn on not riding the horse out and over-whipping the horse?

What happens if the horse veers in one direction or another and you've used youor allocation as happened Hughes yesterday? Or what happens when a jockey tries to use that as an excuse after a race for using the whip too much?

It's going to ruin racing IMO. How many times have we seen AP carry a horse around giving him reminders for 2 miles before managing to get him up. To this day, the best ride I've ever seen in a big race was McCoy on Witchita Lineman in Cheltenham a few years ago and he'd have gotten a nice ban for that ride under present rules given how many times he hit him from the start of the turn for home.

I totally agree with you.
God yeah I remember that Witchita Lineman win, had a few quid on. He'd get a good suspension now if he had to do that again. Remember Deanos Beano?? Lol

I think it will have more bearing on the jumps lads to be honest as some horses simply need that forceful ride especially over further and to get horses over a fence.

As for Hughes, he said he won't correct a horse next time with a tap on the shoulder as it adds to his total, should be fun to see horses drift left right and centre. Like you said whips don't hurt horses. Those damn hippy's ruining everything ha

Another point that may or may not have been mooted here is this.....isn't it going to be fierce easy to 'stop' a horse in a race now?? A jockey can use his quota early and then proceed to let the horse finish without getting too serious as he now has that excuse in his back pocket.

afterburn1

Cracking ride by Natalia Gemelova on for life at 40/1 to finished 2nd in the 3.00 at lingfield. Result for her efforts a 7 day ban. What a joke these stewards are. How competent are the majority of these stewards anyway. DO the actually have to pass any exam or assessment to become one?

hucklebuck

At the risk of offending Sting, here is my tuppence worth :pac:

Are the bookies still going to pay first past the post or will they change in the event a horse that got battered won the race and the jockey gets suspended?

Surely now in a handicap it is impossible for a top weight to win as for the most part the jockey uses the whip to keep them going.

I agree with the whip rules though as for this crap about I did not know I was in the last furlong bull, do you think the speed limit is 1mph? If a horse doesn't respond after two/ three he never will.

The BHA are stupid old farts and it's all a clique, look at Howard Johnson and Casella Park and compare this to Henderson, keeps drugging them to the eyeballs, his vet loses his licence he gets 6 months, then then tell him not to run Binocular as he was too drugged and thats fine and then there was another case from a race in february off memory, haven't heard a peep about this but he will only get a fine at worst - it's sickening.

You should contact Mod edit: <snip> Please don't post contact details in posts. Thanks. , he is the racing for change guy, nice fella, he has always responded to me.

hucklebuck

At this rate there will be nobody left to ride the horses:

http://www.racingpost.com/news/horse-racing/wetherby-a-p-mccoy-bha-mccoy-among-nine-banned-after-flag-fiasco/930703/

mike65

Nothing to do with the whip though.

hucklebuck

mike65 wrote: »

Nothing to do with the whip though.

Relevant to bans and jockeys, plus they probably had whips;)

mr.jingle

hucklebuck wrote: »

Relevant to bans and jockeys, plus they probably had whips;)

Did you see the size of the flag they had up! It was the size of a tent so if they didn't manage to see it and know the rules and pull there horses up they deserve a ban of some sort as it could well have been a serious accident.

The whip rules are there for all to see even an ordinary joe soap knows them at this stage with all the talk of them going on, the jockeys mostly are grand about the limited hits its the fact there losing there riding fee,percentage of the winnings and the excessive bans that there worried about.

Watching Natalie Gemelova yesterday talking was heartbreaking(Yeah i know pussy i am:D) here we have a woman struggling to get a chance to ride a horse each day she finally gets one and pulls out a cracking ride on an outsider but gets her fee taken away, loses her percentage for coming 2nd and gets a 7 day ban when owners may have seen that ride and said 'lets get her up next time she looks promising' but there horse may well be running the day she is banned! She hit her horse the maximum of 7 times but all of them were in the last furlong which i find ridiculous if she had of went over the 7 she should get her ban but no more than that.

Why don't they just come up with a number lets say 10 and have that as the maximum number and thats it anyone goes over 10 day ban if they want to be severe. Jockeys aren't there to batter horses if it wasn't for horse racing how many horses would be left in a field each year rotting away, nobody wants to see animals die, there cared for by so many yet these feckin tree huggers ruining the sport saying its barbaric:mad:

restingpilgrim

I can't wait for Cheltenham and Aintree next year. Would say most jocks will not use whip at all in February in case of a ban at Cheltenham . The national will be joke with all those fences and no whip use to get the horses around. The biggest egg on face will be all the once a year punters saying why is the jockey not trying to win on my horse after not using the whip up the run in since they have used their allocation between the last and the elbow.

As for the Irish jockeys at Cheltenham it will be hard for them to adjust and don't forget they will lose their fees and percentages if they fall foul of the rule. It is also against the rule to compensate them for the loss if you are an owner, though this will be impossible to enforce I think.

Thought bans applied to all jurisdictions as well so surely if they get a ban of x days it will apply in Ireland or France as well.

UrbanSea

restingpilgrim wrote: »

I can't wait for Cheltenham and Aintree next year. Would say most jocks will not use whip at all in February in case of a ban at Cheltenham . The national will be joke with all those fences and no whip use to get the horses around. The biggest egg on face will be all the once a year punters saying why is the jockey not trying to win on my horse after not using the whip up the run in since they have used their allocation between the last and the elbow.

As for the Irish jockeys at Cheltenham it will be hard for them to adjust and don't forget they will lose their fees and percentages if they fall foul of the rule. It is also against the rule to compensate them for the loss if you are an owner, though this will be impossible to enforce I think.

Thought bans applied to all jurisdictions as well so surely if they get a ban of x days it will apply in Ireland or France as well.

Haha yeah. Seen as it was after last year's National that all this welfare thing came into the public eye big time.

JimDeChamp

Did anybody see Tom Queally stopping Barney Curley's horse in the 3 o clock in Brighton today...? Top class ride

Slattsy

JimDeChamp wrote: »

Did anybody see Tom Queally stopping Barney Curley's horse in the 3 o clock in Brighton today...? Top class ride

No didn't see it, was it blatant enough that the stewards will have a chat ?

Montjeu

The whole thing is very silly imo.

Horses have different characteristics and some need more encouragement than others. I find it unfair that more bullish horses are confined to 7/8 whips, in contrast with horses who are mentally better at improving after maybe 2 or 3 reminders.

Surely something has to change the BHA stance in the near future, be it a strike from the jockeys or a serious downturn in betting percentages from punters.

mike65

Richard Hughes has just picked up another 5 day ban so will miss the Breeders Cup. He is talking about handing his licence in, someone else also got a ban today and AP McCoy speaking on BBC radio right now thinks there could be action taken by jockeys in support of the banned.

afterburn1

mike65 wrote: »

Richard Hughes has just picked up another 5 day ban so will miss the Breeders Cup. He is talking about handing his licence in, someone else also got a ban today and AP McCoy speaking on BBC radio right now thinks there could be action taken by jockeys in support of the banned.

The farce continues. Virtual racing only before long. :cool:

UrbanSea

What would Hughes be riding in the Breeders Cup anyway?

Juwwi

UrbanSea wrote: »

What would Hughes be riding in the Breeders Cup anyway?

Strong Suit against Goldikova in the mile.

UrbanSea

Ah. I couldn't think of any horses Hannon would have.

Him being the champion trainer and all.

mike65

Richard Hughes has handed his licence in.

UrbanSea

Ah now that's a bit dramatic.

Montjeu

Fair play to Hughsie.

Although I would hope his fellow jockeys would support him, I can't help but feel it is at the wrong time with many of them in the mix for big prize money at the weekend.

bellybuster12

http://www.racingpost.com/news/horse-racing/richard-hughes-quits-in-protest-at-whip-penalties/931401/

Fair play. These new rules are wrong on every level.

restingpilgrim

If Ireland do not introduce these ridiculous rules I can see a lot of Jockeys coming back to ride over here. Hughes got ten days because it was his second offence !!

meriwether

Could this disrupt 'Champions Day'?

restingpilgrim

Could disrupt Christmas racing because there are so many meetings and by then a lot of jockeys could be banned over jumps if this amount are falling foul on the flat. Trying to get a horse around a trip over fences could be very hard with no whip to help and could lead to a lot of horses pulling up especially in the amateur races if the jockey faces a ban.

restingpilgrim

Maybe best course of action would be for jockeys to refuse to ride on Saturday as this would certainly raise public awareness and put the BHA on the spot.

Slattsy

Lads, I think this is great news. If more jockeys follow suit (AP McCoy is getting more vocal now too over it) then the BHA will have to back off and reviews this rule with a bit of common fooking sense.

As someone said we could see more and more jockeys back over here. Wouldnt it be great to have Hughsie over here full time, maybe Fallon too.

Might get the Coolmore job

Nulty

UrbanSea wrote: »

What would Hughes be riding in the Breeders Cup anyway?

Thought I read Lillebourne Lad might be going too but dunno if its still on

Wolfe Tone

Nice and easy to rig races now aint it....

Use the whip early and often, come the last few furlongs they cant be accused of not trying, the other jockeys will be whipping away and our lad wont be able to and will get beat.

UrbanSea

Nulty wrote: »

Thought I read Lillebourne Lad might be going too but dunno if its still on

I wouldn't want my two year old running the guts of ten times,including going across the Atlantic

restingpilgrim

I watched the Hughes ride tonight which he got the ban for and though he hit the horse six times it was easy to see why he did it. He hit the horse five times and the horse got to the front then the winner came to him he new he had to hit the horse again to have any chance of winning.

Surely a lot of owners are going to have to get rid of horses that need any sort of "encouragement" as they will have no chance . I can also see betting turnover falling sharply for a few weeks until punters come to grips with this. BHA will be screamed at from all quarters.

Pity the BHA do not do a survey of what people think of them, if they did and were requested leap off a cliff will they do it because it was what people wanted !!

hucklebuck

Typical BHA, a half thought out idea with no bedding in period and severe bans and fines to everyon, I smell a money making racket. All the jockeys should leave their whips in the weigh in room, horses will wander all over the shop in a few races and they can say I forgot my whip (there is hardly a law against it)

Only solution is get rid of the whip, you can't overuse what you don't have.