Bye Bye Spoofer Wallace

whippet

..... and make sure you settle you Dail Bar tab before you leave.

wallace and ACC

So, his pre-election assertions that his loans were 'performing', we not backed personally by himself and his business activities were good.

So what did the Pink Panther achieve in his short time as a TD ?


Note .... I assume he will be bankrupt shortly and have to stand down from the Dail.

godtabh

whippet wrote: »

..... and make sure you settle you Dail Bar tab before you leave.

wallace and ACC

So, his pre-election assertions that his loans were 'performing', we not backed personally by himself and his business activities were good.

So what did the Pink Panther achieve in his short time as a TD ?


Note .... I assume he will be bankrupt shortly and have to stand down from the Dail.

was just about to post this.

ACC haven't filed for bankruptcy yet but I assume it is only a matter of time before they do.

Would he be entitled to a pension? I hope note.

Slattsy

He's rightly fooked. Delighted myself I have to say.
How he got elected is shocking, says an awful lot about the fickle voters out there who's attitude was 'anyone but Fianna Fail'.

MagicMarker

Tell him we'll clear his debts if he gets a haircut.

HellFireClub

Great to see Irish begrudgery alive and kicking on the forum. The guy went out and created jobs, he worked hard, he lost money. Anyone here who hasn't started a business and taken on the huge risk and hardship that comes with that, I think isn't really fit to judge the man.

It's no wonder why we have no jobs in the country with this attitude to entrepreneurship...

godtabh

HellFireClub wrote: »

Great to see Irish begrudgery alive and kicking on the forum. The guy went out and created jobs, he worked hard, he lost money. Anyone here who hasn't started a business and taken on the huge risk and hardship that comes with that, I think isn't really fit to judge the man.

It's no wonder why we have no jobs in the country with this attitude to entrepreneurship...

I think there is a differentiation between risk and greed. Fair enough risk is involved in starting anything but having personal guarantees on loans of up to €19m just stinks of greed to me.

He was/is a small time contractor that tried to become a developer. It didnt work out. If you goes bankrupt he should lose his Dail seat. He knew that during the election as it was raised when asked about is company and NAMA.

HellFireClub

godtabh wrote: »

I think there is a differentiation between risk and greed. Fair enough risk is involved in starting anything but having personal guarantees on loans of up to €19m just stinks of greed to me.

He was/is a small time contractor that tried to become a developer. It didnt work out. If you goes bankrupt he should lose his Dail seat. He knew that during the election as it was raised when asked about is company and NAMA.

It isn't greed to be successful in business and to want to grow the business on that basis. This is central to being an entrepreneur. I've a good mate who is in a very similar situation, only the sums are not up in the millions but all the same, in order to keep the business open and people in jobs, he has had to give personal guarantees in relation to the banking debts of his business, such as his business overdraft, business loans, etc.

This is happening up and down the country, where someone personally extends themselves like this and ultimately the business doesn't work out, I fail to see why people on here take some kind of satisfaction in this and gloat.

MidlandsM

HellFireClub wrote: »

Great to see Irish begrudgery alive and kicking on the forum. The guy went out and created jobs, he worked hard, he lost money. Anyone here who hasn't started a business and taken on the huge risk and hardship that comes with that, I think isn't really fit to judge the man.

It's no wonder why we have no jobs in the country with this attitude to entrepreneurship...

....bollox to that, he created a mess like all greedy property developers.

HellFireClub

MidlandsM wrote: »

....bollox to that, he created a mess like all greedy property developers.

I don't disagree with that aspect of it, but if there's a free for all, no proper monetary regulation, and everyone from the Taoiseach down is telling you that you're better off going out and committing suicide than to show some restraint and be more financialy conservative and take on less risk, what else do you expect to happen???

MidlandsM

HellFireClub wrote: »

I don't disagree with that aspect of it, but if there's a free for all, no proper monetary regulation, and everyone from the Taoiseach down is telling you that you're better off going out and committing suicide than to show some restraint and be more financialy conservative and take on less risk, what else do you expect to happen???

some personal responsibility as a businessman? All these property developers were clowns. They knew well there would be NO soft landing, and a BUST is the only thing that follows a BOOM.....history proved that in property markets all over the world long before Irelands boom. They knew well it'd end in a financial hole, but just ploughed on.....

meditraitor

HellFireClub wrote: »

I don't disagree with that aspect of it, but if there's a free for all, no proper monetary regulation, and everyone from the Taoiseach down is telling you that you're better off going out and committing suicide than to show some restraint and be more financialy conservative and take on less risk, what else do you expect to happen???

Common sense would say that the people who werent fooled would be in charge when the dust settles, but it seems the fools are still running the show.

HellFireClub

MidlandsM wrote: »

personal responsibility as a businessman?

He is taking personal responsibility!

Fr Tod Umptious

Regardless of whether it is greed or success I think it shows how voting for an 'anti-establishment' candidate can really backfire.

I am not from the constituency but what exactly was Wallace offering in the election and why did people vote for him in such numbers ?

Back in 2002 you had a large number of independents elected, that number dropped in 2007 but rose again in 2011, I'd expect it to drop in tghe next election when the electorate see that many just don't stack up to people expectations

MidlandsM

HellFireClub wrote: »

He is taking personal responsibility!

not judging by the amount of borrowings and a mess he created?

HellFireClub

MidlandsM wrote: »

not judging by the amount of borrowings and a mess he created?

That's capitalism, success is rewarded, failure is punished...

MidlandsM

HellFireClub wrote: »

failure is punished...

sure it is, you get voted to the dail, and a big pay packet.........yeah, sure its it..

the guys a clown, he's got the hair and shirts and all.....

flutered

one has to wonder is the flat in turin which he uses when watching juventus included.

godtabh

HellFireClub wrote: »

That's capitalism, success is rewarded, failure is punished...

And that is what people are calling for. begrudgery isn't the issue here.

There was no strategic no business model just gambling and sheer luck because of the money available.

In the breaking new article it said that the money was used to fund 3 sites. 2 didn't get developed. Where is the business plan? Where is the strategy? He was out of his debt and had a go and it has come back to haunt him.

The example you gave is a different story. I am sure your friend had a business plan and strategy or he would not have been afforded the over draft facilities.

HellFireClub

godtabh wrote: »

And that is what people are calling for. begrudgery isn't the issue here.

There was no strategic no business model just gambling and sheer luck because of the money available.

In the breaking new article it said that the money was used to fund 3 sites. 2 didn't get developed. Where is the business plan? Where is the strategy? He was out of his debt and had a go and it has come back to haunt him.

The example you gave is a different story. I am sure your friend had a business plan and strategy or he would not have been afforded the over draft facilities.

This is the very point I'm making, if there was so strategy as you claim and no business plan, just plain old reckless gambling as you are probably rightly pointing at, then in all seriousness, who made the decision within the bank, on the back of those facts, to lend this amount of money to his business?!?

And as for success is rewarded and failure is punished and us all wanting to hold people to this basic tenet of capitalism, it seems to me that this gets applied to everyone bar the banks.

T runner

HellFireClub wrote: »

Great to see Irish begrudgery alive and kicking on the forum. The guy went out and created jobs, he worked hard, he lost money. Anyone here who hasn't started a business and taken on the huge risk and hardship that comes with that, I think isn't really fit to judge the man.

It's no wonder why we have no jobs in the country with this attitude to entrepreneurship...

Again this word "Irish" to describe negativitity. My wife, mother, daughter etc are Irish. I am Irish. You might be a begrudger, im Irish and am not. Use a different and more accurate adjective please.

When is saw that Wallace refused to pay his subcontractors, i lost all respect for him. These are families taht he left without an income and doing so without being bankrupt is alcking in honour and integrity and downright wrong.

His only contribution to the Dail was making insulting comments about the appearance of a female colleague proving that he is part of the backward and perverse view that this society holds females in.

His treatment of his subcontractors and his attitude to women shows that this man has attitudes that have ruined this country in the past and continue to bedivil it.

His elitist implication that he shouldnt be allowed to go bankrupt because then he would cease to be TD (asking for diferent treatment from everyone else) indicates that getting his case filed and completed, bankrupting him and throwing him out of the dail cant happen soon enough.

dev100

godtabh wrote: »

was just about to post this.

ACC haven't filed for bankruptcy yet but I assume it is only a matter of time before they do.

Would he be entitled to a pension? I hope note.

It ll take years of court cases to make him bankrupt probably he ll have served his term in the dail.

Mr.Micro

The mind boggles with the mindset of Wexford voters putting this fiscal clown in office as opposed to not voting for the FF fiscal clowns? Are they addicted to or love having incompetents representing them?

dev100

MidlandsM wrote: »

....bollox to that, he created a mess like all greedy property developers.

He created jobs in the boom years. Unlike other developers who hide behind ltd companies . He ll lose the shirt off his back whilst the other greedy chaps loyal to the echalans of creeps at the top get a wage out of Nama and are smiling ...

His only mistake was he wasnt a cute hur like the rest

T runner

dev100 wrote: »

He created jobs in the boom years. Unlike other developers who hide behind ltd companies . He ll lose the shirt off his back whilst the other greedy chaps loyal to the echalans of creeps at the top get a wage out of Nama and are smiling ...

His only mistake was he wasnt a cute hur like the rest

His subcontractors and their children will lose the shirt off tehir backs. (he hasnt paid them). Hes doing very nicely tahnk you very much!

Hes got a cushy nuymber in teh dail...sitting on his arse abusing his female colleagues. Cute enough.

Cuddlesworth

No point in bankrupting him, best way is to let him get a good political career going and hit his pension earnings.

HellFireClub

T runner wrote: »

Again this word "Irish" to describe negativitity. My wife, mother, daughter etc are Irish. I am Irish. You might be a begrudger, im Irish and am not. Use a different and more accurate adjective please.

When is saw that Wallace refused to pay his subcontractors, i lost all respect for him. These are families taht he left without an income and doing so without being bankrupt is alcking in honour and integrity and downright wrong.

His only contribution to the Dail was making insulting comments about the appearance of a female colleague proving that he is part of the backward and perverse view that this society holds females in.

His treatment of his subcontractors and his attitude to women shows that this man has attitudes that have ruined this country in the past and continue to bedivil it.

His elitist implication that he shouldnt be allowed to go bankrupt because then he would cease to be TD (asking for diferent treatment from everyone else) indicates that getting his case filed and completed, bankrupting him and throwing him out of the dail cant happen soon enough.

I'll use whatever form of words I feel like on the forum, thank's very much... This begrudgery that we are seeing in relation to kicking people who fail in a business, it's a very well known Irish trait.

DeVore

HellFireClub wrote: »

Great to see Irish begrudgery alive and kicking on the forum. The guy went out and created jobs, he worked hard, he lost money. Anyone here who hasn't started a business and taken on the huge risk and hardship that comes with that, I think isn't really fit to judge the man.

It's no wonder why we have no jobs in the country with this attitude to entrepreneurship...

I did.

I started a company 9 years ago that gave 12 people employment. Personally guarunteed their wages and bank loan to keep the company running.
Company went under after 5 years and I ended up having to pay the lot.

Where's my bailout?

DeV.

dev100

T runner wrote: »

His subcontractors and their children will lose the shirt off tehir backs. (he hasnt paid them). Hes doing very nicely tahnk you very much!

Hes got a cushy nuymber in teh dail...sitting on his arse abusing his female colleagues. Cute enough.

Do you really think that a dail job will sustain him whilst he owes millions upon millions ? God would you like waking up every morning knowing the banks and whoever else are gunning for you. I think that would be a lot of stress on anyone. Yes its unfortunate for all the subcontractors who have lost their jobs. I dont doubt that.

No one complained when they were earning ridiculous amounts of money during the boom years either.

Mr.Micro

HellFireClub wrote: »

I'll use whatever form of words I feel like on the forum, thank's very much... This begrudgery that we are seeing in relation to kicking people who fail in a business, it's a very well known Irish trait.

Well in fairness, so far its the tax payer who is paying for nearly all the failings of business men such as Mr.Wallace, in the form of NAMA, bailouts etc with the loss to us all, so one can understand to a degree.

Slattsy

HellFireClub wrote: »

T runner wrote: »

I'll use whatever form of words I feel like on the forum, thank's very much... This begrudgery that we are seeing in relation to kicking people who fail in a business, it's a very well known Irish trait.

Another Irish trait is kindness...so let's all do a whip round for poor Mick. God me heart bleeds.

Mr.Micro

What made Mr.Wallace think he had the credentials to be TD, knowing that his business was in deep trouble? The only thing I can think of is the chancer part that appears to be a factor, sadly, in many politicians in Ireland.

HellFireClub

Mr.Micro wrote: »

Well in fairness, so far its the tax payer who is paying for nearly all the failings of business men such as Mr.Wallace, in the form of NAMA, bailouts etc with the loss to us all, so one can understand to a degree.

Here, if crimes like rape and murder were not down on the statute book as crimes, or if they were down there as crimes but if the Gardai, or the DPP, or the Judicary, basically stopped giving a fiddlers and just let people do whatever the hell they see fit to do, guess what: we'd have an awful lot more serious crime going on!!!

The exact same is true for the economy and the banking sector!!! No regulation, or a regulatory regime where it's a case of, "well sure I'll have a load of whatever it is your man over there is having", the economy being managed in a completely reckless way by the political elite of the day, you can't blame business people for the fact that there was no proper control whatsoever held over them.

It's human nature for people to generally do what they can get away with, hence why we have the Gardai, the judicary, the legislature, the DPP, the prison service, etc, to enforce and apply the laws that we wish to be governed by, without fear or favour to any person or party.

This all went out the window in relation to the proper and sound management of the economy over the last 15 years, 3 years into this severe recession and not one person has been held to account for that.

Chuck Stone

I wouldn't call speculating on property entrepreneurship personally. Entrepreneurship is about innovation not speculation.

Also it was demand for housing that created the jobs not some magic talent the property speculators had.

I find it hard to believe that he will lose the shirt off his back.

Mr.Micro

HellFireClub wrote: »

Here, if crimes like rape and murder were not down on the statute book as crimes, or if they were down there as crimes but if the Gardai, or the DPP, or the Judicary, basically stopped giving a fiddlers and just let people do whatever the hell they see fit to do, guess what: we'd have an awful lot more serious crime going on!!!

The exact same is true for the economy and the banking sector!!! No regulation, or a regulatory regime where it's a case of, "well sure I'll have a load of whatever it is your man over there is having", the economy being managed in a completely reckless way by the political elite of the day, you can't blame business people for the fact that there was no proper control whatsoever held over them.

It's human nature for people to generally do what they can get away with, hence why we have the Gardai, the judicary, the legislature, the DPP, the prison service, etc, to enforce and apply the laws that we wish to be governed by, without fear or favour to any person or party.

This all went out the window in relation to the proper and sound management of the economy over the last 15 years, 3 years into this severe recession and not one person has been held to account for that.

I agree, but I do not see much of it changing soon alas. It is so frustrating when things go so wrong that lessons are not learned or the right, if any people held accountable. Bu having such terrible disorganization and inconsistency we just blunder along with little or no standardization in any of the state structures.

Chuck Stone

HellFireClub wrote: »

The exact same is true for the economy and the banking sector!!! No regulation, or a regulatory regime where it's a case of, "well sure I'll have a load of whatever it is your man over there is having", the economy being managed in a completely reckless way by the political elite of the day, you can't blame business people for the fact that there was no proper control whatsoever held over them.

There's another way of looking at it. The problem wasn't the lack of regulation. The problem was bailing out failed banks i.e. this win/lose captialist mantra was anything but.

The global bank bailouts was about propping up a system, and the porfolios of it's stakeholders, that utterly failed.

Fr Tod Umptious

Mr.Micro wrote: »

What made Mr.Wallace think he had the credentials to be TD, knowing that his business was in deep trouble? The only thing I can think of is the chancer part that appears to be a factor, sadly, in many politicians in Ireland.

Fair enough

But what made so many people in Wexford think that he had the credentials to be TD ?

I remember thinking WTF when I heard that he was elected, he was one of the first elected on the Saturday, I was even wonder was it the same Mick Wallace, it made zero sense to me.

HellFireClub

Mr.Micro wrote: »

I agree, but I do not see much of it changing soon alas. It is so frustrating when things go so wrong that lessons are not learned or the right, if any people held accountable. Bu having such terrible disorganization and inconsistency we just blunder along with little or no standardization in any of the state structures.

This happened, in my opinion, because of a culture that runs straight through the Irish civil service, one that is based on passing the book, a complete failure to make timely and effective decisions without endless deference to committees, steering groups, implementation bodies and waffling shops, a culture where nobody is really responsible in terms of personal ownership of probolems, for anything, because everything is agreed at "social partnership level", people generally can't be fired for incompetence, unions running the show, a lack of individual performance review systems that hold people to account...

Then we are somehow surprised when out the other end of this monster, we get handed a crisis and we have a regulator who blames the government, a government that blames the central bank, a Taoiseach who blames the Lehman brothers, a central bank that blames the customers of the Irish banks???

We have been taken for mugs is what I think.

kippy

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

Back in 2002 you had a large number of independents elected, that number dropped in 2007 but rose again in 2011, I'd expect it to drop in tghe next election when the electorate see that many just don't stack up to people expectations

Independents ONLY stack up to peoples expectations when they somehow find themselve either IN government or needed to support a government.
They have zero power or impact otherwise.
When you vote for an independent you take a gamble that they will end up in a position of influence (which happened in the last government when a few indos held the country to ransom. Most people liked that.

On the Wallace thing.
The guy is in it for 19+ Million. That's not small money although nowadays we are so bombarded by these type of numbers it may appear small enough.
He was a small time builder who tried to get big to fast. There's nothing entrepreneurial about what he was trying to do. Just the opposite in fact.

WE are going to be picking up HIS debt and many others like him. Why shouldn't people feel aggrieved?

kippy

HellFireClub wrote: »

Great to see Irish begrudgery alive and kicking on the forum. The guy went out and created jobs, he worked hard, he lost money. Anyone here who hasn't started a business and taken on the huge risk and hardship that comes with that, I think isn't really fit to judge the man.

It's no wonder why we have no jobs in the country with this attitude to entrepreneurship...

I dont think you can call a developer/builder an entrepreneur.......despite what many would think.
There's a lot wrong with this country, but our attitude to entrepreneurship is way down the list.
Perhaps we should have had a far less forgiving attitude to these type of "entrepreneurs" from the start..........

MadsL

There those who were far worse than Wallace. At least he stuck around, try calling up some of the other big NAMA names on their old phone numbers.

Sand

HellFireClub wrote: »

Great to see Irish begrudgery alive and kicking on the forum. The guy went out and created jobs, he worked hard, he lost money. Anyone here who hasn't started a business and taken on the huge risk and hardship that comes with that, I think isn't really fit to judge the man.

It's no wonder why we have no jobs in the country with this attitude to entrepreneurship...

You werent so quick to forgive and forget the sins of the Celtic Tiger previously...

murphaph

Chuck Stone wrote: »

I wouldn't call speculating on property entrepreneurship personally. Entrepreneurship is about innovation not speculation.

Also it was demand for housing that created the jobs not some magic talent the property speculators had.

I find it hard to believe that he will lose the shirt off his back.

Exactly. The likes of Mick Wallace thought they were betting on a sure thing. In his mind, there was no real risk.

An entrepreneur is something very different to Mick Wallace IMO.

expectationlost

he spent 6 million on vanity project, got elected to the dail, that he could have used to pay his loans and subcontractors

Mr.Micro

murphaph wrote: »

Exactly. The likes of Mick Wallace thought they were betting on a sure thing. In his mind, there was no real risk.

An entrepreneur is something very different to Mick Wallace IMO.

Mostly what we mean in Ireland by an entrepreneur is in reality a chancer. Of course there is the odd real entrepreneur.

Sticky_Fingers

Mr.Micro wrote: »

The mind boggles with the mindset of Wexford voters putting this fiscal clown in office as opposed to not voting for the FF fiscal clowns? Are they addicted to or love having incompetents representing them?

I think Wallace has the most important trait needed in any politician, one which is sorely lacking in many of our representatives, he is honest. Before the election he didn't hide the dire straits he was in financially, even the dogs in the street knew he was up to his tonsils in debt. Unlike many however he stuck around whilst others were scrambling to get out of the country and hide their assets. He accepted responsibility for his failings and owned up to his debts. You may not like the cut of him, his long hair and pink shirts, you may disagree with his politics, that's your right but I'd strongly disagree with the suggestion that his supporters are fools for electing IMO an honest man to be their representative.

irishh_bob

Sticky_Fingers wrote: »

I think Wallace has the most important trait needed in any politician, one which is sorely lacking in many of our representatives, he is honest. Before the election he didn't hide the dire straits he was in financially, even the dogs in the street knew he was up to his tonsils in debt. Unlike many however he stuck around whilst others were scrambling to get out of the country and hide their assets. He accepted responsibility for his failings and owned up to his debts. You may not like the cut of him, his long hair and pink shirts, you may disagree with his politics, that's your right but I'd strongly disagree with the suggestion that his supporters are fools for electing IMO an honest man to be their representative.

this country is full of honest losers , doesnt mean id vote for them

Sticky_Fingers

irishh_bob wrote: »

this country is full of honest losers , doesnt mean id vote for them

That's your prerogative but personally when it comes to looking out for my interests as a citizen I'd take the honest loser over the successful self-centered liar any day of the week.

Einhard

HellFireClub wrote: »

Great to see Irish begrudgery alive and kicking on the forum. The guy went out and created jobs, he worked hard, he lost money. Anyone here who hasn't started a business and taken on the huge risk and hardship that comes with that, I think isn't really fit to judge the man.

It's no wonder why we have no jobs in the country with this attitude to entrepreneurship...

HellFireClub wrote: »

It isn't greed to be successful in business and to want to grow the business on that basis. This is central to being an entrepreneur. I've a good mate who is in a very similar situation, only the sums are not up in the millions but all the same, in order to keep the business open and people in jobs, he has had to give personal guarantees in relation to the banking debts of his business, such as his business overdraft, business loans, etc.

This is happening up and down the country, where someone personally extends themselves like this and ultimately the business doesn't work out, I fail to see why people on here take some kind of satisfaction in this and gloat.

I agree with you to an extent HellFire, but what I can't fathom is how people can have a fogiving attitude towards Mick Wallace, whilst heaping abuse on others in the exact same situation. If you defended anothe property developer in the same manner as you do Wallace, most people would laugh you out the door.

AlekSmart

Sticky_Fingers wrote: »

I think Wallace has the most important trait needed in any politician, one which is sorely lacking in many of our representatives, he is honest. Before the election he didn't hide the dire straits he was in financially, even the dogs in the street knew he was up to his tonsils in debt. Unlike many however he stuck around whilst others were scrambling to get out of the country and hide their assets. He accepted responsibility for his failings and owned up to his debts. You may not like the cut of him, his long hair and pink shirts, you may disagree with his politics, that's your right but I'd strongly disagree with the suggestion that his supporters are fools for electing IMO an honest man to be their representative.

Quite true.

I remember a radio interview he did with RTE's Drive-Time programme sometime before the election.

He was quite upfront about his level of indebtedness and in response to the presenters questioning he quite bluntly stated that his personal future and those of his employees was in the hands of his bank.

At this moment it appears nothing has changed.

It will be quite interesting to see if his bankers will actually petition his bankruptcy.

Wallaces position is in somewhat stark contrast to his fellow developer travellers who have reached ...erm...understandings....with their banking associates and particularly with NAMA.

I have also heard it said that Wallaces developments tended to be of a somewhat different character to other Irish-Style apartment's,being somewhat larger internally and with a bit of a tilt towards Family occupancy.....any Wallace development occupiers out there who can confirm or deny that element..??

jimmycrackcorm

I'm only concerned with whether the taxpayer will end up paying all or some of this €19m bill he owes the banks.

washman3

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

I'm only concerned with whether the taxpayer will end up paying all or some of this €19m bill he owes the banks.

They wont. Wallace is oudside NAMA as his loans are mainly with foreign banks. his assets should cover his losses easily, only thing is they will be sold for a fraction of their worth. Might even lose his family home. If he was in NAMA he would be laughing now. He would be paid €200k a year and would be only pursued for what the banks paid for his loans. The taxpayer would pick up the rest.
Incidentally Mick was never a friend of Fianna Fail or a contributor in the Galway Tent. Coincidence.....