Getting into professional racing?

SChique00

Right, I hope I'm in the right section posting this -

I'm a teen and although I have no connections to racing through family or friends, it's something I would love to get involved in. I read an article in a magazine lately about a girl who has been involved in it for the past few years, but this is because it is a family hobby. I know the basics of driving and can't wait to get my provisional, so I think that racing on a track with be a both a good outlet and practise for my first road motor.
As an outsider, how can I get involved in it (even as a hobby, nothing competitive)? Help appreciated, cheers :cool:

Plug

You need lots of money.

SChique00

Plug wrote: »

You need lots of money.

You mean for the car itself, or the car and suit and (possibly) insurance? I've got that covered

mikemac

Go to Mondello and do a day with the racing school
Have a go
But I think you need a licence

A lot of teens start in karting. Is there a track near you?
Tynagh in Galway is great

robbie99

There's a number of kart circuits around the country where you can do an 'arrive n drive' session on their rental karts. These are great for learning and practising how to drive quick and if you can take to the rental karts then you can consider buying your own kart and getting a race license to enter Motorsport Ireland kart racing events, or even the entire National Championship. Getting started in motorsport and karting is explained here...
http://www.motorsportireland.com/TrainingCourses/IntroToMotorsport.aspx
http://www.motorsportireland.com/Disciplines/Karting.aspx
If you don't have much money or a family already involved in motorsport then if possible, I'd recommend getting a job as a track marshall at one of the leisure karting tracks where as a member of staff you'd get almost unlimited practice with the rental karts which will build up your driving and racing skills and help make you competitive with your future racing career.

si_guru

Plug wrote: »

You need lots of money.

+1.

I had a mate who used to drive Fiestas (Fiesta Challenge it was called IIRC) then did two seasons in BTCC.. he used to budget for £30K per year!

challengemaster

SChique00 wrote: »

You mean for the car itself, or the car and suit and (possibly) insurance? I've got that covered

trailer for transport, fuel costs every time you take it out, entry costs for competitions / track days, and that's the tip of the iceberg. I really doubt you have it covered tbh...

Greyfoot

challengemaster wrote: »

trailer for transport, fuel costs every time you take it out, entry costs for competitions / track days, and that's the tip of the iceberg. I really doubt you have it covered tbh...

plus set of tyres, you`ll eat them faster than you can say whoo-hoo I won!!

wobbles

Start in karting, everything else will require a licence. Ask your local track are there any group who come in regularly who are pretty good and ask them can you join them on track. You will learn so much from them that it will be a great start. After that, it will depend on what type of motorsport you want to get into. Rallying, Karting, Saloons, Single Seaters etc Theres a lot of variety. Whatever line you want to go down, it wont be cheap.

Del2005

LIGHTNING wrote: »

BTW Do you mean professional racing? I am guessing you mean as a hobby or an interest? Not many people in Ireland get paid to race!

In the current climate I don't think many people anywhere get paid to race. With a lot of the smaller teams you'll need to buy your seat.

Tefral

If your mechanically minded this will save you money. If not start hanging around with lads into cars. Get yourself on Modified Car sites and start learning. Have a look on places like pistonheads. Here you will get a feel for what its like to have a car like that.

You should look into getting something like a 1.6 Honda Vtec or something similar that has been broken for parts and all they are selling is a rolling shell. You could drop an engine into it as there are loads hanging about and get your cage, seat etc.

Being honest the biggest thing that will determine how fast you get into this will be money. I dunno do you have an older brother or a dad or uncle that would help ya out and would have an interest. Im just going to assume your still in school at this point as you said about getting your provisional and that your only going to be doing this as a hobby.

_Conrad_

If you want to try start doing something competitive maybe consider getting into autograss? Not been around it for a few years but used to be great craic. There are several clubs for different areas and some of the classes are still cheap-ish to race in.

Gary ITR

Plug wrote: »

You need lots of money.

Not really. Buy a cheap car, lob in a cage, some decent pads and Bob's your mothers brother. With that alone you're nearly at Time Attack standard

There will be sacrifces of course, I've given up nights on the piss and nice food but it's worth it

IrishZeus

Gary ITR wrote: »

Not really. Buy a cheap car, lob in a cage, some decent pads and Bob's your mothers brother. With that alone you're nearly at Time Attack standard

There will be sacrifces of course, I've given up nights on the piss and nice food but it's worth it

I was really considering this and have looked at a few build threads that do it for a few kkk's. Going to be down the line though as when I looked at the other costs, they mount up so quick...! (Track costs, transport to track, fuel, tyres, maintenance etc.)

Someday though, someday...

challengemaster

Gary ITR wrote: »

Not really. Buy a cheap car, lob in a cage, some decent pads and Bob's your mothers brother. With that alone you're nearly at Time Attack standard

There will be sacrifces of course, I've given up nights on the piss and nice food but it's worth it

Ah come on gary, you of all people should know its far from that easy.

3 Layer Race Suit
Fireproof Underwear
Helmet
Fireproof Gloves
Race Shoes
Fireproof Balaclava
Approved roll cage
FIA bucket seat / harness (in date)
Battery Isolation switch
Fire extinguisher fitted

I know those are ITCC regs, but tbh I wouldn't go out in a track dedicated car without them. Accidents happen and it's that stuff that can/will save your life if the shít hits the fan.

Somewhere to store the car
Some way to transport it (trailer, car/van with towbar / recovery truck / etc)
Fuel costs for transport
Fuel costs for running it around a track
Entry costs for the day on track
Tyres
Upgraded suspension
brake pads
brake discs
change brake fluid

That's before anything breaks.
Mechanic costs, parts, if you crash, or have a crash with someone else.

and I'm damn sure I'm missing stuff.

Think about it from someone that can't store their car in somewhere like Urban, doesn't have any mechanic or garage that'll work on their car or that they can do the work themselves, and has no sponsorship or backing from anyone.

challengemaster

You left out the cost of a trailer

I do get what you're saying, but for a 16/17 year old, does that not seem like a lot? I'm not trying to convince him against it, just trying to give him an idea of the costs that might come against him.

Gary ITR

I see where you're coming from Challengemaster but where there's a will and all that. In Time Attack the seat doesn't need to be in date, tbh I'd rather sit in an out of date Recaro which can be had quite cheap than some of the cheaper Sparco stuff being sold new and in date


A lot of the above can be had second hand. If you want to get into this you need to become handy on the spanners yourself, otherwise forget about it

A lot of the other stuff can be had second hand. If you want to do it on a budget then you will

R.O.R

Gary ITR wrote: »

I've given up nights on the piss and nice food but it's worth it

Should help achieve a Racing Driver physique as well

Greyfoot

LIGHTNING wrote: »

Tyres use road tyres -buy partially worn ones if needed
Upgraded suspension not needed

If you planning to drive anything over say 200whp and less than a ton you better prepare for a hefty bill for repairing the car after you crash it once your road tyres get overheated.

EDIT: You might get away with stock suspension once you get used to them but I would never go cheap on tyres.

Greyfoot

LIGHTNING wrote: »

Having done hundreds and hundred of laps on a racetrack using only road tyres I safely say there is nothing wrong with using road tyres on a track.

That is what makes us an amateur racer and not a professional...;)

SChique00

OK, so basically ye have all turned me off the idea now - it is extremely expensive for something that may only become a hobby, and I can focus myself on cheaper things. I already do boxing, so maybe that could lead me into competitions farther down the line? Thanks for all the advice though, muchos obliged I think that when I'm older I may get into modifying cars or trading classic cars - it seems marginally cheaper and there's less chance of my wrecking something I've worked hard to get

Drummerboy08

I'd recommend going down to Mondello and doing a training day there.

That will give you a good idea whether motorsport is for you or not without actually spending a lot of money.

After my first track day when I was 18 I loved it. I recently got back on the track with my own car and it's re-ignited the bug!!

Myself and GaryITR are currently in the process of buying and building a dedicated track car. If you want to see how it's done or what's involved, PM Gary and I'm sure he'll show you the race car, his own car thats in the process of being built, and the track car (if it's anywhere to be seen!)

SouperComputer

If by professional you mean to actually make a living out of it, its going to be a tall order but I think you've figured that out on the finance side alone. There's a phrase in racing "if you want to make a fortune in racing, start with one!"

I think you said you are just about to get your licence, which puts you around 17 or older... Straight away you are at a disadvantage as many of your fellow racers that you would be competing against already have 10+ years of competitive national and world-level racing experience in karting and single seaters.
The odds of making a full-time paying career out of racing are literally worse than that of the lotto.

Now, having said that. It's a great sport. Try a day at Mondello and see how you like it. Theres lots of different forms of racing: rallycross, auto testing (very cheap), autograss, karting, rallying and rallycross to mention a few. Get a sample of each of them, compare costs and see what fits for you.

guyfo

Itcc???? The lads a teen not loaded! If its a budget motorsport your up for have a look at autotesting. You can start from the age of 16. Buy a 1300 boxy starlet (bout 500 quid) and set at it with an angle grinder until you get it down to weight. At that it wouldnt be far off the pace in its class. Possibly a bucket seat but the originals are grand. An average event will cost you about 100 quid including tyres fuel and entry plus no racing clothing or expensive safety equipment is required.

Heres a clip of an autotest in case you dont know what it is (most people dont)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lwi13lDo15M

Greyfoot

guyfo wrote: »

Itcc???? The lads a teen not loaded! If its a budget motorsport your up for have a look at autotesting. You can start from the age of 16. Buy a 1300 boxy starlet (bout 500 quid) and set at it with an angle grinder until you get it down to weight. At that it wouldnt be far off the pace in its class. Possibly a bucket seat but the originals are grand. An average event will cost you about 100 quid including tyres fuel and entry plus no racing clothing or expensive safety equipment is required.

Heres a clip of an autotest in case you dont know what it is (most people dont)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lwi13lDo15M

As far as I can hear that Morris is FI which is not cheap nor easy for someone not mechanically minded.
Back in Hungary there are a certain race for drivers-called slalom-its a race against the clock, very technical involving tight turns and slaloms between cones. Now most young drivers start there building up driving technique and then decide which route to follow eg rally, rallycross, track etc.
OP you said you into boxing atm-go and do your best see if you are any good at it. You are still young have many years ahead of you, dont worry, most pro drivers are older guys with years of experience behind them. As Denzel Washington said in Man on Fire, there is only trained an untrained man, dont worry about being talented or not.

PS: That extension yoke on the wheel of the Morris was priceless.

Gary ITR

The cheapest form of saloon car racing is Time Attack. A lot of the competitors just use a road car with a cage. If you want to go further that's up to you and as the years go on you can develop the car further

Gary ITR

Just as an idea here's the track build myself and Drummerboy are taking on

Honda Civic EG3 B16A2 running Buddyclub Spec3+ cams, ITR Gearbox and Diff, Maxogen Airbox, N1 Header, Demon ECU Tuned on Neptune, ITR Hubs and calipers, cage, coilovers, ITR fuel tank(needed for the pump), ITR Inlet Mani, seat and dramatic weight reduction

The above list being conservative comes to €5500(Including the shell)

If you want to compete then add your suit, helmet, gloves, plumbed extinguisher, entry fees and tyres

TBH you'll find it hard to get racing any cheaper than that

Fortunately we already have most of the above list so we should do it for €1400 or so between us

As for my ITCC Integra ''Hello, is that the Credit Union? well my dog is very very sick and needs an operation''

guyfo

I wouldnt call 5500 cheap! U could do 30 autotesting events for that with building a decent car

Gary ITR

guyfo wrote: »

I wouldnt call 5500 cheap! U could do 30 autotesting events for that with building a decent car

I never said 5500 was cheap, I'm just giving an idea of what's involved. I don't think there's a big Autotesting scene in Ireland anyway

guyfo

? are you serious? Ireland has the strongest autotesting championships in the world. The irish national championship runs 14-16 events a year from sept to march. the northern irish championship runs 10 a year from march to sept. Theres a munster championship that runs a 16 round championship from march to sept too. There then is a smaller tdc 7 round beginners/club championship plus small club events. Ireland and northern ireland have the 2 strongest autotest championships around and just last weekend the republics team won the ken wharton (the biggest autotest of the year in the uk, an international team event) for the 6th time in 8 years . I do about 30 events a year between the northern and suthern championship but i could easily do 40 if i wanted too.

ianobrien

Gary ITR wrote: »

I don't think there's a big Autotesting scene in Ireland anyway

WHAT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Ireland has a large autotesting scene, with both a national & munster championship. Also, Irish Autotesting has regularly wins the Wharton Trophy!

Gary ITR

I stand corrected then. Autotesting and drifting etc don't really interest me, I prefer circuit racing so I don't really pay attention to the others

challengemaster

I have to say, autotest looks like the most boring pile of ....

just my opinion though

challengemaster

As with most things, there's always a difference when you're actually doing something as opposed to watching

Just from the video posted earlier, it doesn't look all too exciting

mickdw

So how much would a cheap time attack car be got for ready to go? I was not aware of this time attack series at all

Greyfoot

mickdw wrote: »

So how much would a cheap time attack car be got for ready to go? I was not aware of this time attack series at all

Now do not want to start any argument here speaking from personal experience only and intended as a heads up only.

Learning the difference between FWD, RWD and AWD is paramount. So is gaining a general (if not deep) knowledge how a petrol (can safely say diesel is out of question here)car operates. I mean not just-yeah sure FWD is front wheel drive innit?-but to learn and understand how a car works from sucking the darn petrol out of the tank to putting the power onto the tarmac.

What I seen over the years that lads and girls(rare) with mechanical knowledge can actually drive much better since they see and feel what the pedals, gear lever and steering wheel do and that does make a HUGE difference.

My flatmate can build a track M3(rather get one built) tuned to 400+whp but he would surely crash it in the first corner but he is driving over 20+yrs now. Its just that he has no clue about over and understeer or apex of a corner or anything generally about cars and what keeps them on the road.

Lastly mistakes what make drivers great. It may be possible that you will have an accident on the road and you will be scared away from driving for your entire life. It is also possible that you will look back and learn from the mistake and thus will improve your technique.

Back to your question here in Ireland I have no clue. I guess you can get a cheap 325i or similar, tune it up a good bit, get all job necessary and go for it.

SouperComputer

Greyfoot wrote: »

Learning the difference between FWD, RWD and AWD is paramount. So is gaining a general (if not deep) knowledge how a petrol (can safely say diesel is out of question here)car operates. I mean not just-yeah sure FWD is front wheel drive innit?-but to learn and understand how a car works from sucking the darn petrol out of the tank to putting the power onto the tarmac.

I'm not sure if I agree with knowledge of the driveilne being paramount. I recall reading about a driving\performance instructor commenting on some F1 drivers he worked with, he would ask them what driveline setup the car was and they would often get it wrong. Sure it helps to understand the nuances, but I wouldn't say its paramount, at the end of the day your goal is to manipulate the controls to stay as close to the edge of the traction circle as you can. I get what you are saying though, a general understanding of things helps. I would say that sensitivity and ability to observe, and recall in reasonable detail what the car is doing at different stages is paramount. Once you get that down, it doesn't matter what wheels are driven. JMHO YMMV

Greyfoot wrote: »

Lastly mistakes what make drivers great. It may be possible that you will have an accident on the road and you will be scared away from driving for your entire life. It is also possible that you will look back and learn from the mistake and thus will improve your technique.

This is what I like about karting. Leaving the track at 115MPH in a 160Kg projectile is often more forgiving than a 1000Kg+ car


I don't know how anyone can call autotesting boring, the top speeds of the cars might not be that big, but the rate of your thought processing is up there with and maybe beyond that of Rallying. But to each their own. Yoiu don't need an FI Morris to do it, thats the great thing about it. Autotesting is about as cheap as it gets, cheaper than karting at entry level anyway.

guyfo

Greyfoot wrote: »

As far as I can hear that Morris is FI which is not cheap nor easy for someone not mechanically minded.

PS: That extension yoke on the wheel of the Morris was priceless.

FI? Not quite sure what that means??? If its forced induction then no my mini isnt turboed. It has a bored out standard engine. And being a mini engine its not particularly hard to work on. Probably a fair bit easier than most other forms of racing cars. The minis are fairly expensive but the thing is that every form of motorsport gets expensive at the top end. Thats a bit like saying to build a starter time attack car and then saying that a championship winning one is expensive! There is a class for cars like starlets and novas and you could build a top one of those for about 4k i think. But again for enty level 1000 quid would build a very nice base car to upgrade from.

What extension yoke? Not quite sure what ya mean there.

Ps. Its not a morris! Its a rover era mini! :P

maddness

Greyfoot wrote: »

Now do not want to start any argument here speaking from personal experience only and intended as a heads up only.

Learning the difference between FWD, RWD and AWD is paramount. So is gaining a general (if not deep) knowledge how a petrol (can safely say diesel is out of question here)car operates. I mean not just-yeah sure FWD is front wheel drive innit?-but to learn and understand how a car works from sucking the darn petrol out of the tank to putting the power onto the tarmac.

What I seen over the years that lads and girls(rare) with mechanical knowledge can actually drive much better since they see and feel what the pedals, gear lever and steering wheel do and that does make a HUGE difference.
My flatmate can build a track M3(rather get one built) tuned to 400+whp but he would surely crash it in the first corner but he is driving over 20+yrs now. Its just that he has no clue about over and understeer or apex of a corner or anything generally about cars and what keeps them on the road.

Lastly mistakes what make drivers great. It may be possible that you will have an accident on the road and you will be scared away from driving for your entire life. It is also possible that you will look back and learn from the mistake and thus will improve your technique.

Back to your question here in Ireland I have no clue. I guess you can get a cheap 325i or similar, tune it up a good bit, get all job necessary and go for it.

Absolute nonsense. I know many very competitive racing drivers (including myself not so long ago) who can barely pour in petrol to their racing cars but have great car control and feel no matter what kind of car they are racing.

guyfo

Agreed. Its natural talent that makes a driver not mechanical know how.

Greyfoot

maddness wrote: »

Absolute nonsense. I know many very competitive racing drivers (including myself not so long ago) who can barely pour in petrol to their racing cars but have great car control and feel no matter what kind of car they are racing.

No need for that attitude pal. great car control and being able to go around a few laps on a short tarmac circuit is not the same. I seriously doubt that if you dont know the basics you have a clue why you drifted off the track be it on tarmac or dirt.

Having raced in third class rally with a rwd Lada, and done two championship in N class in a Suzuki Swift I do noticed that during everyday driving those who are know about cars and the way the work ARE BETTER drivers. I have never met anyone during the years back then who wouldnt know jacks*** about cars and had the balls to drive downhill at 160+kph in a narrow dirt road just to enter onto a tarmac slip right before a tight right hand side corner...

I have no experience driving in tracks-the sort of Mondello, apart from messing around in welded diffs rwds for a day or two so cant say any relevant here.

Greyfoot

guyfo wrote: »

Agreed. Its natural talent that makes a driver not mechanical know how.

I dont believe in talent, there are only trained and untrained people...

Greyfoot

guyfo wrote: »

FI? Not quite sure what that means??? If its forced induction then no my mini isnt turboed. It has a bored out standard engine. And being a mini engine its not particularly hard to work on. Probably a fair bit easier than most other forms of racing cars. The minis are fairly expensive but the thing is that every form of motorsport gets expensive at the top end. Thats a bit like saying to build a starter time attack car and then saying that a championship winning one is expensive! There is a class for cars like starlets and novas and you could build a top one of those for about 4k i think. But again for enty level 1000 quid would build a very nice base car to upgrade from.

What extension yoke? Not quite sure what ya mean there.

Ps. Its not a morris! Its a rover era mini! :P

I thought it is turboed, my bad. Getting back to the original question a bored out engine is not cheap. If you can do it yourself then we back to the point-you have to have knowledge about cars to do that sort of job on an engine.
The extension yoke I was referred to(as I am not a native english speaker)can be seen around 0:30-0:33 into the video. The one truck drivers using, allowing you to turn the wheel to full lock with one hand..

guyfo

I didnt say that i bored out the engine. I said that mini engines are easy to work on and maintain. The noise you hear is from the gearbox. Its a straight cut box which makes the already quite whiney mini gearbox even louder! The engine came from an engineering firm and i picked it up second hand. Bout 2k for a really good second hand engine. Very cheap compared to other forms of racing.

As for ure statement on talent. Absolute bull. End of.

Greyfoot

guyfo wrote: »

Absolute bull. End of.

Nice argument pal..

guyfo

So Schumacher, Mcrae, Loeb, Vettel, Hamilton and other racers all have no talent do they not? Seriously. Natural talent coupled with seat time is what makes a driver not being a mechanic.

SV

Greyfoot wrote: »

Nice argument pal..

You can train a person till the cows come home.
If the natural ability doesn't exist in some part of them you're at nothing.


Talent plays a huge part.

Greyfoot

guyfo wrote: »

The noise you hear is from the gearbox. Its a straight cut box .

That was my first thought but couldnt find any translation, google gave me slip gear, or sliding gearbox which i guess a wrong one.

Greyfoot

guyfo wrote: »

So Schumacher, Mcrae, Loeb, Vettel, Hamilton and other racers all have no talent do they not? Seriously. Natural talent coupled with seat time is what makes a driver not being a mechanic.

Schumacher started karting at the age of 6, Mcrae was a biker started around the age of 10, in this list Loeb is "talented" as he was a gymnast before.
All I am trying to say here, that given the time, effort, education and feckin money, almost every kid with great interest in the motor sport can and would eventually become world champion. It has feckin nothing to do being talented.

Greyfoot

And before we race off topic more and scare the OP being not talented let us finish this pointless discussion here, you will not convince me and I will not convince you it is clear.

guyfo

Explain to me then why Matthew Wilson isnt world rally champion then?
Ill answer it for you. He has had more practice than most other drivers in the fiels but yet he doesnt win because he lacks natural raw talent.

Ps Schumacher started at 6. So did everyone he raced