Should Eddie O'Sullivan be the new backs coach?

Conas

Think it's about time we brought this guy back. I don't give a rats ass about 2007, It should be all about what's best for the team, and as far as I'm concerned our back play has been no where near as good since he left. I've always been a massive fan of his tactics, and his attention to detail. He did a excellent job with the USA. He has the brains and the motivation to transform our backs. I've been shocked that the IRFU let him go at all. It's time to bring back O'Sullivan. There's no one better and he's one of our own.

wingnut

Maybe as part of the team but I'd hate to go back to the days of sticking to the same old 15 no matter what, never blooding new players.

Conas

wingnut wrote: »

Maybe as part of the team but I'd hate to go back to the days of sticking to the same old 15 no matter what, never blooding new players.

I'd be shocked if he hasn't learnt from the mistakes of the past in fairness.

irishbucsfan

Utter madness.

Fight_Night

Not sure if he would accept that position, might dent his pride a bit to become the backs coach of a team he used to be the main coach of only 4 years ago. Also while he's good, is he the best option available? We should look at all the options out there.

Tigerandahalf

He is a great coach but he has too much baggage for the Irish setup. Plus he has shown himself unable to work as part of a team. He wanted all the control and there was a sense that one wouldn't want to cross him. That kind of fear won't help a set up. Gatland has got a right good set up in Wales with Howley and Jenkins, two people who seem to add to the team ethic.

Conas

Fight_Night wrote: »

Not sure if he would accept that position, might dent his pride a bit to become the backs coach of a team he used to be the main coach of only 4 years ago. Also while he's good, is he the best option available? We should look at all the options out there.

When we didn't have brilliant forwards our backs were incredible. We now have brilliant forwards, but our backs can no longer run good lines. So we have a massive problems in the coaching department. I'd take O'Sullivans back play anyday.

Why wouldn't he accept the job if the money was right?

thomond2006

Don't think he would come back, he didn't work well with Deccie the last time.

Conas

thomond2006 wrote: »

Don't think he would come back, he didn't work well with Deccie the last time.

Think that was more so rumour than anything else. I read O'Sullivans book never took any swipe or dig at Deccie. Seemed to have only positive things to say about him.

BarackPyjama

No. We need our entire management staff to be from overseas with no provincial connections or agenda and to be awarded commensurately with the performance of the team.

Fight_Night

Conas wrote: »

When we didn't have brilliant forwards our backs were incredible. We now have brilliant forwards, but our backs can no longer run good lines. So we have a massive problems in the coaching department. I'd take O'Sullivans back play anyday.

Why wouldn't he accept the job if the money was right?

A lot of potential problems bringing him back though. And aside from that I don't know if he's the best out there, I don't think we should settle for anything but the best.

I agree though our back play was much better under EOS.

Chucky the tree

A 5 year old child could make a backline with BOD in his prime look excellent when his supporting cast is also very good.

CIARAN_BOYLE

I wouldn't mind EOS but if there are other options that are just as good I'd be as happy with them as well.

CiaranMT

Never gonna happen with Deccie in charge.

Conas

So who would be better than EOS? It's something that people are struggling to answer?

Principal Skinner

wingnut wrote: »

Maybe as part of the team but I'd hate to go back to the days of sticking to the same old 15 no matter what, never blooding new players.

Sorry are we talking about kidney here or EOS?

niallon

Conas wrote: »

Think that was more so rumour than anything else. I read O'Sullivans book never took any swipe or dig at Deccie. Seemed to have only positive things to say about him.

Yes but he also said that himself and Kidney would never be friends, even though they had respect for each other. Kinda suggests a bad working environment!

mr.mickels

Conas wrote: »

Think it's about time we brought this guy back.

Good joke, would be a great knee-jerk reaction. General mood at the time was O'Sullivan should have been let go earlier.

jacothelad

That's really not fair on Kidney - after all he did give us Murray, Earls, SOB but not enough of McFadden for my liking and he did persevere with Fitz when he was in a trough of poor form. He did however inflict us with TOL, Buckley and a geriatric Hayes. it's difficult to have faith in a coach that persisted with Buckley for years when a blind wombat encased in frozen sewage could see that it was a joke.

EOS' main problem, and a similarity to Fr. Declan, was that he had some really good players but refused to see and act when their time was up. Declan has done the same to a far greater degree. The Ireland rugby team is not a rest home for Deccie's old mates, much as it appears to be. I'm sorry, but it's hard to get past such rubbish. I wonder also in the last world cup if Eddie had actually used a 21 year old Ferris, Kearney, Quinlan etc would things have perked up a bit. They couldn't have been any worse.

theboss80

Would not want him back to be honest. We need a new set up and new ideas and attitude. An attitude of expecting to win when we play and then doing the business on the pitch.

People talk about DK not wanting EOS involved but I would imagine theres a few players there that might not have much time for EOS either and might cause friction in the camp with players that would be happy to have him back.

New management please. A modern and adaptable management who openly seek to build a squad with viable replacement for the next RWC. I would expect this to happen next March to be honest if we don't WIN the 6 nations.

Fight_Night

jacothelad wrote: »

That's really not fair on Kidney - after all he did give us Murray, Earls, SOB but not enough of McFadden for my liking and he did persevere with Fitz when he was in a trough of poor form. He did however inflict us with TOL, Buckley and a geriatric Hayes. it's difficult to have faith in a coach that persisted with Buckley for years when a blind wombat encased in frozen sewage could see that it was a joke.

EOS' main problem, and a similarity to Fr. Declan, was that he had some really good players but refused to see and act when their time was up. Declan has done the same to a far greater degree. The Ireland rugby team is not a rest home for Deccie's old mates, much as it appears to be. I'm sorry, but it's hard to get past such rubbish. I wonder also in the last world cup if Eddie had actually used a 21 year old Ferris, Kearney, Quinlan etc would things have perked up a bit. They couldn't have been any worse.

I'll give him Earls and Murray, but DK didn't pick SOB until he was literally the best playing backrow forward in Europe and even then I'm fairly sure he only got his place because of an injury(not positive on that one). Agree with the rest of what you're saying though.

If I was EOS though I wouldn't take the job, he's doing well in the USA and this would be a step backwards for him imo.

jacothelad

Fight_Night wrote: »

I'll give him Earls and Murray, but DK didn't pick SOB until he was literally the best playing backrow forward in Europe and even then I'm fairly sure he only got his place because of an injury(not positive on that one). Agree with the rest of what you're saying though.

If I was EOS though I wouldn't take the job, he's doing well in the USA and this would be a step backwards for him imo.

I was trying not to be hypercritical of Kidney.
We only got SOB when there was no alternative.
We only got Ross when there was no alternative.
We only got Murray when TOL was clearly injured - not because he was awful at 9 - and Murray isn't any better i.m.o. All hype and slow ball.
We didn't get Trimble but we did get Earls (o.k.ish) and we did get Fitzgerald.
We didn't get McFadden - except on the wing because we got Earls in the 13 slot. Keith is to 13 what Buckley is to propping.

wixfjord

One thing is for sure, we need sims sort of ingenuity in the backs.
On a number of occasions yesterday we were Scotland esque in throwing the ball wide and not making any ground, and then just kicking it away.

Think about it, there was no real set moves used at all yesterday, and I don't think I saw the section loop at all in the whole tournament, a move which invariably creates space

Our handling throughout the while WC has been surprisingly good though.

let Alice do it.

.ak

I LOL'd

Conas

The only players that might not like to see him back are Kearney, Bowe, Heaslip, the guys he left at home in 2007. We seem to want a fresh approach but who the hell should we get as a backs coach? I'm still waiting on an answer, I've yet to get one.

25 people have voted against EOS
5 have voted in favour.

I'm guessing loads of people from the IRFU post on here. Would Donal Lenihan be any good as backs coach? Conor O Shea? How about George Hook? I'm not lying at least you know what u get with George. Still think he could bring us forward. He's a good man with a good rugby brain.

Conas

Conas wrote: »

How about George Hook? I'm not lying at least you know what u get with George. Still think he could bring us forward. He's a good man with a good rugby brain.

sure hides it real well on the telly

.ak

Conas wrote: »

The only players that might not like to see him back are Kearney, Bowe, Heaslip, the guys he left at home in 2007. We seem to want a fresh approach but who the hell should we get as a backs coach? I'm still waiting on an answer, I've yet to get one.

25 people have voted against EOS
5 have voted in favour.

I'm guessing loads of people from the IRFU post on here. Would Donal Lenihan be any good as backs coach? Conor O Shea? How about George Hook? I'm not lying at least you know what u get with George. Still think he could bring us forward. He's a good man with a good rugby brain.

I was giving heed to your words until I read this, then I realized you're joking!

If you're not joking then to answer your question; no, we would not look to Hook now as he has no knowledge on professional modern rugby. We'd step back 15 years if he had anything to do with the team.

Phonehead

I think most would agree that Eddie has a superb rugby brain but unfortunately I couldn't see him being a constructive addition to the coaching team. It is well documented that Eddie doesn't work well with others (nor does he like delegating) so to expect him to slot into a position where he is not the boss is unrealistic.

Honestly I have no idea who they should look for but no doubt that's why they will have people in the know draw up any shortlist. The Southern Hemisphere would be the obvious place to look considering the importance of the backline play in Super Rugby.

GerM

Conas wrote: »

I'm guessing loads of people from the IRFU post on here. Would Donal Lenihan be any good as backs coach? Conor O Shea? How about George Hook? I'm not lying at least you know what u get with George. Still think he could bring us forward. He's a good man with a good rugby brain.

Lenihan is a people man and a manager, not a coach. He's currently quite happy I'm sure in his media work and he has a role within Munster's academy I believe also. That's aside from the small fact that he was a lock. COS wouldn't take a job as Irish backs coach if you put a gun to his head. He's a head coach and a very good one who is lighting up the AP with Quins at the moment.

I'm not going to discuss the Hook suggestion.

CatFromHue

If we could get Eddie I think it would be a good move for the team.

A lot of the problems between O Sullivan and Kidney I think came from the fact that O Sullivan didn't want a backs coach as he was doing this area himself. The IRFU made him take Kidney, who himself was a successful head coach from Munster, and in the end he had a role of being assistant to the the backs coach for Ireland. There was no real position for Kidney in the Ireland set up.

There was probably a bit of a hang over for when O Sullivan and Kidney would have been different sides of the table when it came to player management.

I never got all the anger towards Eddie and still don't. Ultimatley we have a vacancy which we have to fill with some one.

trackguy

Can anyone suggest a good backs coach that Ireland could recruit? Assuming Joe Schmidt ain't gonna have the time...

thomond2006

The Setanta boys mentioned Brian Smith.

davegrohl48

I'd like to see someone who takes off the strait jacket we're currently in and gets the players to play what's in front of them.
A coach who has an influence on the manager picking a set of forwards who will give the backs the best opportunity of implementing their attacking play.
Sometimes when I see our backline play it looks like we're going through set plays rather than playing what is on.
One other easy change, more players need to start taking responsibility to act as scrumhalf when required. New Zealand do this all the time, nearest player will pick up the ball and pass it out to the first receiver. Speeds play up and doesn't let opposition defence reset. Collectively we have for a few years been slow to take on responsibility to move the ball on from the breakdown.

CatFromHue

thomond2006 wrote: »

The Setanta boys mentioned Brian Smith.

Who is Brian Smith again? I've heard the name but can't remember who he is.

thomond2006

CatFromHue wrote: »

Who is Brian Smith again? I've heard the name but can't remember who he is.

England's attack coach. Apparently his input barely got a look in with England, he was highly rated when he was at London Irish.

stephen_n

Anyone would have to be an improvement from Gaffney

Hippo

Joe Schmidt was an unlikely, and brilliant selection for Leinster. There must be an up and coming backs coach somewhere in the world who has a few ideas and can do a job. Any talk of O'Sullivan is nonsense; argumentative, bears a grudge, conservative, great at devising a first phase move on the blackboard. And at that I'm mentioning his good points.

GerM

I'd like to see us throw caution to the wind and go with someone that's young, knows the modern game and is a good communicator. I'm sure some will balk at the idea but if I had to say someone who would change things up and make an impact, I'd go for Mike Catt. He's an intelligent bloke, has bundles of experience in various positions, is coaching one of the most potent back lines in the AP and is not afraid to speak up. LI aren't a particularly great side but he has them playing some decent stuff.

Trojan

Good god, no.

profitius

EOS is a fantastic coach but theres too much baggage there.

They should look to the southern hemisphere for the next backs coach. Take there time and try to uncover an innovative coach.

dtpc191991

How about we play O'Driscoll less, so we can blood new centres and make him a player/backs coach. In two years once he's retired he can stay on as full time backs coach.

Trojan

David ****ing Knox?

Podge_irl

dtpc191991 wrote: »

How about we play O'Driscoll less, so we can blood new centres and make him a player/backs coach. In two years once he's retired he can stay on as full time backs coach.

Cause that kind of thing has worked so well with Johnson and Lievremont...

There is no indication that BOD wants to coach, or that he'd actually be any good at it.

dtpc191991

Podge_irl wrote: »

Cause that kind of thing has worked so well with Johnson and Lievremont...

There is no indication that BOD wants to coach, or that he'd actually be any good at it.

They are head coaches. BOD will only be backs coach, it will not be his main job to maintain discipline and to make the final decisions on the team sheet. his job will be to get the back line moving, I'm sure he has the knowledge to do that and the leadership quality needed to coach at that level at least.

Podge_irl

dtpc191991 wrote: »

They are head coaches. BOD will only be backs coach, it will not be his main job to maintain discipline and to make the final decisions on the team sheet. his job will be to get the back line moving, I'm sure he has the knowledge to do that and the leadership quality needed to coach at that level at least.

There is a reason people do coaching courses and generally follow a similar trajectory as players - underage/club -> international.

Coaching is not playing. Maybe BOD knows nothing about wing play or outhalf play. Maybe he's not great at organising systems, only playing in them. It's ridiculous to assume that because he was a good player he'll make a good coach.

Clearlier

thomond2006 wrote: »

England's attack coach. Apparently his input barely got a look in with England, he was highly rated when he was at London Irish.

Brian Smith also played for Ireland at outhalf. He ran the backline in 1991 that brought in Staples, Geoghegan and a couple of others but disappeared off to rugby league before the RWC. He's actually an Aussie and played for them at scrumhalf before rocking up and claiming that he had an Irish granny. I read afterwards that nobody bothered to do any checking until after he had gone when it was discovered that he hadn't any Irish relatives. I only read it once though so don't know if it was actually true.

As for EOS as backs coach. Yes, Kidney as head coach and Eddie as backs coach would from a coaching point of view have been an excellent setup. It's never ever going to happen though. Eddie's ego wouldn't let it (to be honest I doubt there are many head coaches whose ego would).

It's interesting that this Irish backline has played in a fashion not altogether dissimilar to the Munster backline that Gaffney produced albeit with even fewer passes. He certainly did well with Leinster with Matt Williams when BOD, d'Arcy, Horgan and others were coming through but he hasn't really produced a great back line since that I can remember.

Clearlier

Podge_irl wrote: »

There is a reason people do coaching courses and generally follow a similar trajectory as players - underage/club -> international.

Coaching is not playing. Maybe BOD knows nothing about wing play or outhalf play. Maybe he's not great at organising systems, only playing in them. It's ridiculous to assume that because he was a good player he'll make a good coach.

If you want an example of why a recent player shouldn't start coaching at international level straight away we only need to look across the water although Johnson has done a lot better than I thought he would.

MungBean

Podge_irl wrote: »

There is a reason people do coaching courses and generally follow a similar trajectory as players - underage/club -> international.

Coaching is not playing. Maybe BOD knows nothing about wing play or outhalf play. Maybe he's not great at organising systems, only playing in them. It's ridiculous to assume that because he was a good player he'll make a good coach.

Not really ridiculous. He may or may not make a good coach but plenty of players move into back room staff and remain a core part of the team. I think BOD will always be involved in the set up and maybe even make a move towards coaching to try it out at some point. Maybe not with the Irish squad but somewhere.

A player as good as BOD will know his stuff about different positions in the back line and know how to get them playing good attacking rugby. If he wanted to move towards working as a backs coach he wouldnt find it hard to find work.

GerM

I hope BOD doesn't go into coaching. Several top players try their hand at it but struggle. They often want players to do the things they see and can do themselves but more often than not, the players can't reach that level. There are very few top players that make top coaches or even very good coaches. BOD is a player that was able to create a moment of brilliance out of nothing. I don't think he's someone I'd ever want running a back line in terms of coaching. The successful backs coaches that were former players tend to be those players who ran or organised a back line when playing i.e. Knox, Catt, Howley, Deans, Wayne Smith. EOS is probably the only winger/centre I can think of off hand that made a very good backs coach.

CatFromHue

I think even Eddie O Sullivan might have played outhalf for a bit. He also started coaching at very low level and then moved up. I'm not sure if that's possible anymore as you don't see many coaches making the move from amateur to professional teams for what ever reason.