M50 merge advice needed

Ginkgo

How do I handle merge when running out of lane and there’s no safe gap. I understand about right of way and that traffic on motorway has priority.

Yesterday, when joining M-50 southbound at Ballymun (the right hand slip) I had just about come to the end of the lane that the slip runs into before I could merge because there wasn’t a safe gap.

Normally I can merge more quickly no problem. I build up speed on the slip and slot in no problem. My question is how to handle above situation better. Obviously I want to get in before I’m forced out because lane has terminated ::eek::eek:

I guess my only option is to drop my speed but with cars behind me this doesn't seem very safe.

Leprechaun77

I think that you can reduce your chances of running out of lane by checking your mirrors earlier, and adjust your speed accordingly to find a gap in the traffic. I see so many people run out of lane when thet could have reached a safe gap if they slightly sped up/slowed down. This aside, in peak traffic I think the drivers who are actually on the motorway need to improve their observation and either make a gap or change lane also....some like to think that it's their lane and you are skipping in on it.

barrmur

All you can do is indicate as early as possible and hope that those on the motorway give you room to merge. I wouldn't count on it though as some of the driving I have seen on the M50 is nothing short of deplorable. I am constantly amazed by the amount of people think it is acceptable to sit in the middle lane of the motorway until they want to exit and then cut across two lanes using the left hand lane as a "drive through" on the way off. Christ I had a woman a few weeks ago in the middle lane, when she was not straying/weaving into both other lanes, that when I passed was putting on her make up in moving (approx 80km) traffic. Wonders will never cease.

Ginkgo

Leprechaun77 wrote: »

I think that you can reduce your chances of running out of lane by checking your mirrors earlier, and adjust your speed accordingly to find a gap in the traffic. I see so many people run out of lane when thet could have reached a safe gap if they slightly sped up/slowed down. This aside, in peak traffic I think the drivers who are actually on the motorway need to improve their observation and either make a gap or change lane also....some like to think that it's their lane and you are skipping in on it.

Good advice. Thanks. As I said, merging is usually not a problem. I'm possibly a bit over cautious on judging the merge gap.

robbie_998

yeah some people can be quite arrogant and ignorant and untrained on there.


if i was coming down the inside lane and someone wanted to merge in GinKgo's case i'd actually move into the middle lane no problem just to make life easier

corktina

so would I.

It calls for experiance to get on seamlessly. Position yourself just behind a vehicle in lane 1 and at the same speed and indicate right, pause slightley and then do what you have indicated you intend to do. The next vehicle back in lane 1 should then make allowances for you to be pulling in front of him, either by slowing slightly if necessary or by moving to lane 2.

Of course it calls for courtesy on the part of the guy , sadly this is lacking in a great number of Irish drivers.Even so, unless he is dangerously tail-gating the first vehicle, there should be room for you to pull in.

Bigcheeze

speaking of courtesy, I tend to feel more accommodating towards merging drivers and other drivers in general when they have the courtesy to indicate when merging rather than just drifting in to the main flow of traffic.

opinion guy

Ok what is the actual law on merging ?

I ask because there is currently an ad running on tv adivsing those on the motorway to change lanes to allow people to merge.

Which, frankly, seems INSANE to me, and also is different to almost every other country

Anan1

Traffic on the main road has right of way, there's no legal obligation to yield to merging traffic.

Bigcheeze

opinion guy wrote: »

Ok what is the actual law on merging ?

I ask because there is currently an ad running on tv adivsing those on the motorway to change lanes to allow people to merge.

Which, frankly, seems INSANE to me, and also is different to almost every other country

really annoying in Ireland as cars in the left lane tend to all move right at the sight of merging traffic up ahead.

dudara

opinion guy wrote: »

Ok what is the actual law on merging ?

I ask because there is currently an ad running on tv adivsing those on the motorway to change lanes to allow people to merge.

Which, frankly, seems INSANE to me, and also is different to almost every other country

That ad bugs me too. OK, I will move out to allow someone to merge in when outside lane is empty etc, but I won't if the road is busy.

But... the tendency to move out to allow other drivers to merge causes terrible compression around slip roads. Anyone who drives the M50 will know what I mean.

opinion guy

Exactly!!!!

Its dangerous to encourage people to change lanes at speed unnecessarily!

subway

If it's busy, when you reach the bottom of the slip you should be travelling at the same speed as the traffic on the motorway. The person you are inline with is the person you should merge with. Match their speed, start indicating and before your each the end of the merging lane you will have room to pull in.

People run out of room because they travel slower or faster than the motorway traffic.
Too slow and people will keep passing you and you run out of room. Too fast and people won't see you coming up the inside and therefore wont have enough time to make a gap for you.

If there is room, I usually just pull out into the middle lane, it's not neccesaty but Irish merging is very very hit and miss, so I just give them a wide berth

//edit, to add, if the road is busy, I don't move out, just make room for the person I am letting merge with me

Anan1

subway wrote: »

If it's busy, when you reach the bottom of the slip you should be travelling at the same speed as the traffic on the motorway. The person you are inline with is the person you should merge with. Match their speed, start indicating and before your each the end of the merging lane you will have room to pull in.

I tend to exceed the speed of traffic on the motorway when on the slip road and accelerate into a gap ahead of me. I find people are more inclined to accomodate/less able to block a faster-moving car than one hovering to their left.

subway

Well, you need to move slightly faster to drop in front of them but if there is a large visible gap jump into it.
What I'm referring to is bumper to bumper travelling at 60-70. Flying past them all at 120 will only result in running out of road and either slamming on or worse. I see that most mornings.

Anan1

subway wrote: »

Well, you need to move slightly faster to drop in front of them but if there is a large visible gap jump into it.
What I'm referring to is bumper to bumper travelling at 60-70. Flying past them all at 120 will only result in running out of road and either slamming on or worse. I see that most mornings.

That's true. Merging is actually far more difficult to describe than to do! I think key is to identify the gap you intend to fill as early as possible.

Guy:Incognito

I can never understand why all the cars merging on try to battle their way in to the right hand slip at the junctions, it comes to an end and a big block of cars are trying to get out together. If they all stayed in the left slip they have all the way till the next junction to merge.

I see it at every junction they are crossing the hatch markings and all to get in to the right hand lane of the slip.

robbie_998

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

I can never understand why all the cars merging on try to battle their way in to the right hand slip at the junctions, it comes to an end and a big block of cars are trying to get out together. If they all stayed in the left slip they have all the way till the next junction to merge.

I see it at every junction they are crossing the hatch markings and all to get in to the right hand lane of the slip.

i stay in the left slip lane myself and many times you get idiots running across the white lines to the outer lane just to try and merge sooner and they do get stuck.

i think its down to a serious lack of training for motorways and the likes.

i do think people on just after passing their driving test should be forced to take 2 or 3 lessons on motorways before their allowed out on their own.

**Timbuk2**

The main thing is to match the speed of the traffic on the motorway. Don't worry about getting up to 100km/h etc., if traffic is only doing around 80km/h. This is easy to judge because as you are coming down the slip lane, if it appears that cars in Lane 1 are not getting any further away from you, or closer towards you, then you are matching their speed.

Keep checking your mirrors early, looking for a possible gap. Ideally, you don't want to arrive at the 'merging' point side by side with another vehicle, so plan this in advance (of course, not all junctions have good visibility - especially those where you go uphill to merge - you can't always assess the traffic flow until it's nearly time to merge).

Don't assume that anyone will move over for you - they do have right of way. However, generally, people will move out if there is room and traffic isn't too heavy, or at least they might hold back a bit to let you in. Again, this is why going the same speed as them is so important - if you are going the same speed you can, as you say, "slot in", and you should only cause minimum inconvenience to other people. If you are going slower than the traffic you want to merge into (which is all to common with Irish drivers), then traffic will have to slow down, and possibly move out and overtake you.

And sometimes there are two merging lanes - usually what happens is the right lane merges first, then the left lane merges. Sometimes (not always!), it's a bit easier to merge from the left lane - you have more time to build up speed (good for those really short slip lanes), as well as having more time to adjust your speed so as to arrive at the merging point at a suitable gap. Sometimes the right lane only has a small distance to merge, whereas the left lane has more. This happens at some points on the M50, where the left merging lane actually turns into an auxiliary lane (i.e. traffic merges onto Lane 1, as well as traffic from Lane 1 moving into this lane if they intend to take the next exit - indicated by a heavy dashed line).

Ginkgo

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

I can never understand why all the cars merging on try to battle their way in to the right hand slip at the junctions, it comes to an end and a big block of cars are trying to get out together. If they all stayed in the left slip they have all the way till the next junction to merge.

I see it at every junction they are crossing the hatch markings and all to get in to the right hand lane of the slip.

I naturally wind up in the right hand slip as I come on to the slip after having made a right turn at the roundabout just before. Also I didn't mention in my OP that the vehicle that was impeding my merge was a truck - which is more intimidating and takes longer to pass because of it's size.

subway

Ginkgo wrote: »

Also I didn't mention in my OP that the vehicle that was impeding my merge was a truck - which is more intimidating and takes longer to pass because of it's size.

In that case, fall in behind rather than trying to get ahead. Its about preempting what will happen in the 100m or so you have to merge. With a truck, unless you are ahead of it from the point you are at the bottom if the onramp you are going to be in his blind spot fir most of the merge. By the time you get ahead and he sees you, you are already running out of road and he may not be able to decelerate safely to give you room (if he sees you at all)

Mycroft H

Pretty much this...

But the standard rule of the road applies : Always give way to faster traffic proceeding from the right

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QX7BFeOCgAQ

opinion guy

But seriously though - that f**kin TV ad still annoying me.

The number of gob****es who forcefully mere when you are travelling along legally in lane and have traffic on your outside is seriously infuriating.

But what do we expect when a TV gives them the impression they have some right to do so ?

Greyfoot

BX 19 wrote: »

Pretty much this...

But the standard rule of the road applies : Always give way to faster traffic proceeding from the right

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QX7BFeOCgAQ

at 1:12 "...now we need to adjust our speed..." and he fails to adjust it. There was at least two gap when he could have merged in...
Watch for the "eejit" in the red beemer, he never misses any gap be it on a motorway...:rolleyes:

corktina

Saw a classic bad merge today (not on the M50) .The onslip in Mallow N20 heading for Cork ( by the MPHC if you are local)...I saw (in my mirror fortunately) a red Micra (yes had to be...) drive up to the top of the ramp and stop dead at the very start of what is an above avergae length acceleration lane.ffs

Its a simple manoeovre and should be a piece of cake once youve done it half a doz times. Matching your speed is CRUCIAL.

**Timbuk2**

I hate being stuck behind someone who merges waaay too slowly. I've only ever seen a person stop completely when there was absolutely no need to though - that's shocking.

corktina wrote: »

Its a simple manoeovre and should be a piece of cake once youve done it half a doz times. Matching your speed is CRUCIAL.

It is fairly simple, but newly qualified drivers can find it a bit daunting. After passing my test, it was what I intially found hardest. I never had any bad experiences while merging, but it's just the thought of "having" to find a gap in a short period of time. But once I practiced it a few times it becomes second nature! But I think if there is a dual carraigeway in the area, driving instructors should teach pupils how to merge - it is an important skill, one that is often done wrong!

-Corkie-

corktina wrote: »

Saw a classic bad merge today (not on the M50) .The onslip in Mallow N20 heading for Cork ( by the MPHC if you are local)...I saw (in my mirror fortunately) a red Micra (yes had to be...) drive up to the top of the ramp and stop dead at the very start of what is an above avergae length acceleration lane.ffs

Its a simple manoeovre and should be a piece of cake once youve done it half a doz times. Matching your speed is CRUCIAL.

Seen the same thing in the same place, the lad stopped and had the head out the window looking back the road...:rolleyes:

unkel

Ginkgo wrote: »

Obviously I want to get in before I’m forced out because lane has terminated ::eek::eek:

Whoaahhh :eek:

You should never feel forced to join a motorway if it is not safe to do so, even if you are at the end of the slip road

You should be able to find a gap to safely join the motorway, but if you can't find one in time, keep driving on the hard shoulder until you find a gap. Don't brake / stop on the slip road and don't merge when it is not safe!!!

challengemaster

unkel wrote: »

Whoaahhh :eek:

You should never feel forced to join a motorway if it is not safe to do so, even if you are at the end of the slip road

You should be able to find a gap to safely join the motorway, but if you can't find one in time, keep driving on the hard shoulder until you find a gap. Don't brake / stop on the slip road and don't merge when it is not safe!!!

Driving on the hard shoulder is illegal, you have to stop if you can't merge

unkel

**Timbuk2** wrote: »

newly qualified drivers can find it a bit daunting. After passing my test, it was what I intially found hardest.

Of course you found it hard. Motorway merging and overtaking is hard to judge and takes time to master

Incredibly it is not part of driving lessons / the driving test in Ireland

Imho it should be the single most important thing in learning to drive

unkel

challengemaster wrote: »

Driving on the hard shoulder is illegal, you have to stop if you can't merge

Stopping in the slip road is insane.

challengemaster

unkel wrote: »

Stopping in the slip road is insane.

It's the legal thing to do - You don't have right of way and you can't legally drive in the hard shoulder, so you stop.

slimjimmc

^^ while the advice about driving up the h/s is contrary to loads and loads of traffic law it can reduce the chance of being rear-ended by some clown behind who's watching his mirror more than the road in front. Stopping is still the correct thing to do though.

unkel

challengemaster wrote: »

It's the legal thing to do - You don't have right of way and you can't legally drive in the hard shoulder, so you stop.

I don't care whether or not it is the legal thing to do. Stopping in the slip road is insane

101sean

I'll overrun on to the hard shoulder if I have to, usually on an uphill sliproad on a LH bend if there's trucks in lane 1 and the gaps don't pan out right, there's a limit to how hard you can accelerate in a Land Rover .

Stopping at the end of the slip lane is totally insane but I've seen it few times. I'm sure I saw advice to the UK to use the hard shoulder ages ago, couldn't verify it though.

Ginkgo

unkel wrote: »

You should never feel forced to join a motorway if it is not safe to do so, even if you are at the end of the slip road

You should be able to find a gap to safely join the motorway, but if you can't find one in time, keep driving on the hard shoulder until you find a gap. Don't brake / stop on the slip road and don't merge when it is not safe!!!

Not possible at this junction. I have another lane to my left (the lane the left hand slip runs into). The right hand slip leads to a lane that just terminates after a certain distance. Given that I have a limited amount of road in which to merge the only option I have is to drop my speed to let the vehicle pass and merge behind it.

subway

If you can't join at speed, you'll never get in if you stop. Avoid stopping on the slip lane if at all possible

Midnight_EG

Drop a cog and let your right foot sink to the floor :P

Voodoomelon

^^
This.
I rarely join any motorway at less than 120-140kph.

sdanseo

While you have to give way to faster traffic, it's worth saying that you shouldn't be afraid to speed up either. In many circumstances, especially on the M50, it can be much safer to put the foot quite literally to the floor for a couple of seconds to fit perfectly safely into a gap. There's often nothing in front of you in the merge lane and you can do 100km/h and above while traffic in the leftmost running lane may only be doing 80-90km/h.

It may sound harsh, but if you can't travel at motorway speed then don't use the motorway. There is no excuse for people doing 70-80km/h on the M50 - it slows everything down regardless if there were ten overtaking lanes. This is what causes a lot of the middle lane hogging and also what contributes to the difficulty merging - slower traffic travels tighter together and you have to speed up to fit into the gaps as I illustrated just now.

corktina

unkel wrote: »

I don't care whether or not it is the legal thing to do. Stopping in the slip road is insane

the hard shoulder on a motorway is for emergency use only....if you can't merge by the end of the slip road, its an emergency...dont stop whatever else you do, the guy behind you could be doing 120km/h and looking over his shoulder.

E39MSport

Works perfectly in the UK (hasn't a fcuking hope here though as a prerequisite is to be aware of whats going on in front of you and have a modicum of common sense and decency)

Those in L1 move to L2 when approaching an on ramp. Most drivers do this and it works fine. That said, most are generally obeying the rules and you're not left trying to merge into a jammed L2.

Also, on overtaking.

When someone inside you indicates to overtake you move right where applicable to let them manoeuvre. (In my experience in Ire people don't give a fcuk and cruise on by while your forced to slow down). If they're coming from L2 out to L3 you let them in and they generally assume this and just pull out anyway. No hot heads, no horn blasting. All sensible stuff.

corktina

In my experiance, in the UK you only have to flip your indicator before the clued up guy in the next lane moves to accomodate you.

E39MSport

^^ Yup . Problem is the 'clued up' part for us.

Keep left, move right to overtake and accommodate. How bstard difficult is that ?

(anyone hear Hooke the other day saying he hadn't a clue about roundabouts? Conor Faughnan called in to help him out - fair play. What a c0ck Hooke is though)

challengemaster

corktina wrote: »

the hard shoulder on a motorway is for emergency use only....if you can't merge by the end of the slip road, its an emergency...dont stop whatever else you do, the guy behind you could be doing 120km/h and looking over his shoulder.

I'd disagree - an emergency is not the incompetence and bad driving of someone failing to merge, an emergency would be something like a mechanical issue or blow out that you need to move to the hard shoulder as soon as possible.

If someone rear ends you, that's their fault for not paying attention. The attitude you seem to have is "everyone else is a shít driver, so i'll break rules to accommodate for it", which is why the driving situation in this country is never really going to change.

_Kaiser_

The simple fact is this would be a total non-issue if:

- People accelerated on the slip road to match the traffic on the main carriageway, and indicated as they approach the end to signify their intent to merge into Lane 1

- People in Lane 1 weren't dawdling/tailgating/driving-like-assholes-determined-not-to-let-someone-ahead-of-them and either lifted off slightly (if safe to do so) or moved in to Lane 2 (who equally should be aware enough to know "hmm, slip road = cars merging = cars accomodating this, possibly by moving into my lane = maybe I should pay a bit more attention and drive accordingly)

But this is Ireland where we'll instead debate the legalities of the situation rather than the common-sense/safest approach. Personally I think the current ad makes the most sense - regardless of whether you technically/legally are obliged to "make way" or not

langdang

challengemaster wrote: »

I'd disagree - an emergency is not the incompetence and bad driving of someone failing to merge, an emergency would be something like a mechanical issue or blow out that you need to move to the hard shoulder as soon as possible.

If someone rear ends you, that's their fault for not paying attention. The attitude you seem to have is "everyone else is a shít driver, so i'll break rules to accommodate for it", which is why the driving situation in this country is never really going to change.

Someone in a 1l Corsa trying to match motorway speed from a standing start at the end of an on ramp would very quickly cause an emergency if the motorway was so busy they had problems merging at speed.

The lesser of two evils is to continue, and merge ASAP.

Guy:Incognito

E39MSport wrote: »

Those in L1 move to L2 when approaching an on ramp. Most drivers do this and it works fine. That said, most are generally obeying the rules and you're not left trying to merge into a jammed L2.
.

If everyone in L1 is drivign with a proper gap there'd be no need for anyone to move anywhere. The peopel merging just slip in to the gaps, theadjust speed (never with the brakes, wtf is with the amount of peopel that brake on motorways here? Brake to merge, brake to move out to overtake, brake to move back in, brake to leave the motorway and then the ones that drive to close all the time and just brake intermittantly)to recreate the gaps

E39MSport

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

If everyone in L1 is drivign with a proper gap there'd be no need for anyone to move anywhere. The peopel merging just slip in to the gaps, theadjust speed (never with the brakes, wtf is with the amount of peopel that brake on motorways here? Brake to merge, brake to move out to overtake, brake to move back in, brake to leave the motorway and then the ones that drive to close all the time and just brake intermittantly)to recreate the gaps

If said gap is filled by another car then it needs to be adjusted and the traffic behind has to slow down accordingly ?

The point of the 'move right to accommodate' is to maintain flow. That's critical.

corktina

challengemaster wrote: »

I'd disagree - an emergency is not the incompetence and bad driving of someone failing to merge, an emergency would be something like a mechanical issue or blow out that you need to move to the hard shoulder as soon as possible.

If someone rear ends you, that's their fault for not paying attention. The attitude you seem to have is "everyone else is a shít driver, so i'll break rules to accommodate for it", which is why the driving situation in this country is never really going to change.

wah? I never said I do that that, im saying anyone poor enough as a driver who cant merge at the end of the acceleration lane should continue on to the hard shoulder rather than stop and get rear ended. Would help if you read the posts.

tea2011

When merging onto M50 from ballymun exit heading southbound, does the auxilliary lane go from slip road to exit 5 if you are having trouble merging on? Might seem like a stupid question but am really new to the M50:o