Timing Belt Broke

Bettyboop

Quick question! My daughters 02 VW Bora timing belt went today on her way to work ,just wondering if she has any comeback from garage where bought,timing belt was just done when she bought it at 65,000 mls. and now broke at 86,000 mls.I know nothing about cars but would it break after 21,000 mls
Thanks

-Corkie-

They probably never changed it imo.

Bettyboop

-Corkie- wrote: »

They probably never changed it imo.

hmm garage told her it was:(

Skuxx

How long ago did she buy it? Timing belts should be changed after max 4 years regardless of milage!
It will be hard to proove if the garge changed it or not, it shouldn't go after 21k miles but unfortunately with manufactured products quality can't be 100% guaranteed, there will always be the odd dud!
Its hard luck on this one IMHO!!

amber2

How long ago since she bought the car. Yes they can break after being done. VW belts are notorious for breaking. Also its gonna be very costly to repair.

alan1990

alan1990 wrote: »

How long ago did she buy it? Timing belts should be changed after max 4 years regardless of milage!...........

what manufacturer recommends 4 years regardless of mileage? None me thinks.

OP, depending on who did the belt there may be a comeback, get onto them about it.

Bettyboop

alan1990 wrote: »

How long ago did she buy it? Timing belts should be changed after max 4 years regardless of milage!
It will be hard to proove if the garge changed it or not, it shouldn't go after 21k miles but unfortunately with manufactured products quality can't be 100% guaranteed, there will always be the odd dud!
Its hard luck on this one IMHO!!

Has it less than a year,she reckons its only fit for scrap now
shame though was in great condition too:(

V Eight

Shouldn't have happened. I'm sure you bought it under the assurance the work had been completed asthe timing belt should be checked for condition or replaced at 60,000 in Boras....depends how long ago she bought it, 21000mls maybe a year and half ......but dealer may argue after a year not their problem-hopefully not!

tuborg_man

RoverJames wrote: »

what manufacturer recommends 4 years regardless of mileage? None me thinks.

OP, depending on who did the belt there may be a comeback, get onto them about it.

alfa t spark engine is 3 years i think,

L-M

My timing belt broke in my Golf 4 years ago. TBH it's worth getting the head rebuilt, as good second hand engines are hard to come by.

It cost me around 600-700 it parts and the labour was myself and my father.

If you need any help or guidance feel free to pm me.

Woofstuff

Wouldnt believe them, theyll just say its done, they probably say they serviced it too, but really they didnt and the car will survive untill next service and theyll get away with it..

Im not saying all dealers are like this but some of them definitely are.

Ive gone to see cars in dealers where the ad says "timing belt just done"...and ya get there and ask for the proof and they say "no proof but it was definitely done"

youd prob need to have written evidence of it being done to have any legal comeback..receipts, copy of the ad..

If you dont have evidence then no harm in storming down to them.. how long has it been since you bought it.

L-M

Woofstuff wrote: »

Wouldnt believe them, theyll just say its done, they probably say they serviced it too, but really they didnt and the car will survive untill next service and theyll get away with it..

Im not saying all dealers are like this but some of them definitely are.

Ive gone to see cars in dealers where the ad says "timing belt just done"...and ya get there and ask for the proof and they say "no proof but it was definitely done"

youd prob need to have written evidence of it being done to have any legal comeback..receipts, copy of the ad..

If you dont have evidence then no harm in storming down to them.. how long has it been since you bought it.

I'm not being smart or backing them up, but what proof exactly could you have bar pictures?

V Eight

RoverJames wrote: »

what manufacturer recommends 4 years regardless of mileage? None me thinks.

OP, depending on who did the belt there may be a comeback, get onto them about it.

Original manufacturers parts all carry a warranty for 2 years -I thought!
The question is was the timing belt changed at all?

ltdslipdiff

I stand corrected on this one, but AFAIK there are two timing belts on those 1.4 VAG engines. One is the standard size and then there's a secondary smaller one run from one camshaft that drives the second camshaft. Often this belt is overlooked and ultimately snaps wrecking everything.

Bettyboop

Woofstuff wrote: »

Wouldnt believe them, theyll just say its done, they probably say they serviced it too, but really they didnt and the car will survive untill next service and theyll get away with it..

Im not saying all dealers are like this but some of them definitely are.

Ive gone to see cars in dealers where the ad says "timing belt just done"...and ya get there and ask for the proof and they say "no proof but it was definitely done"

youd prob need to have written evidence of it being done to have any legal comeback..receipts, copy of the ad..

If you dont have evidence then no harm in storming down to them.. how long has it been since you bought it.

yes they said all of the above,I think we have service book where it said timing belt was done.Does that count as evidence?
Thanks appreciate the posts

alan1990

alan1990 wrote: »

How long ago did she buy it? Timing belts should be changed after max 4 years regardless of milage!
It will be hard to proove if the garge changed it or not, it shouldn't go after 21k miles but unfortunately with manufactured products quality can't be 100% guaranteed, there will always be the odd dud!
Its hard luck on this one IMHO!!

V Eight wrote: »

Original manufacturers parts all carry a warranty for 2 years -I thought!
The question is was the timing belt changed at all?

Sorry dude, the first line of my post was in response to the bit in bold
BTW, you're views on the warranty of OM parts is incorrect.

Woofstuff

Limerick man wrote: »

I'm not being smart or backing them up, but what proof exactly could you have bar pictures?

yeah a video of them doing it would be good proof:D

amber2

If she bought the car from a main dealer just go back to them. If she bought it from a car sales find out who did the work i.e did they do the work themselves or send it to a main dealers to be done either way she should be covered, from experience. As i said VW are known for it main dealers wont tell you that though.

Bettyboop

amber2 wrote: »

If she bought the car from a main dealer just go back to them. If she bought it from a car sales find out who did the work i.e did they do the work themselves or send it to a main dealers to be done either way she should be covered, from experience. As i said VW are known for it main dealers wont tell you that though.

Where she bought car from sent car to be serviced by another garage across the road we have the service book stating full service and timing belt done stamped too if that's any good will be ringing Place where she bought car and see if they will help us in any way.

bigroad

If the belt was fitted is was damaged while fitting or put on to tight like a fan belt,inexperienced staff.or not changed.Go back to the garage anyway and explain what happened,but dont loose your cool .If they take no responseability go direct to your solicitor and get him to send a letter .im sure they will then come to meet you half way.

Woofstuff

Limerick man wrote: »

I'm not being smart or backing them up, but what proof exactly could you have bar pictures?

What i meant by proof was a receipt for the work done or the parts..or a record in the service book. Not really proof but at least its
something to fall back on if the belt breaks

V Eight

Bettyboop wrote: »

yes they said all of the above,I think we have service book where it said timing belt was done.Does that count as evidence?
Thanks appreciate the posts

Fundimentally you were sold a product thats doesn’t function and is not fit for purpose – thats evidence enough!

V Eight

V Eight wrote: »

Fundimentally you were sold a product thats doesn’t function and is not fit for purpose – thats evidence enough!

It functioned for 21k miles, it's not a TV that didn't work out of the box.

amber2

Have seen a belt breaking on a passat after 12k and an octavia after 11k in the lást few weeks both manufactured by vw. Could be tensioners but unlikely with the milage. Just go back and see what they say. Do you know if the belt is genuine or spurious ?

amber2

amber2 wrote: »

Have seen a belt breaking .... manufactured by vw. .....

Did VAG buy out some belt crowd or something?

bigroad

Whatever you do keep thet broken belt,because the garage will blame the belt .you might be able to get the belt checked for imperfections in its quality and find out who are the so called mechanics working at that garage ie qualifications.

^^^

Comedy Gold

slimjimmc

RoverJames wrote: »

^^^

Comedy Gold

Agreed, you don't have to be qualified you simply need to be competent.
But the advice is sound in relation to keeping the broken belt and any other associated replaceable parts in case it was those parts that failed or show signs of bad fitting.

EPM

RoverJames wrote: »

what manufacturer recommends 4 years regardless of mileage? None me thinks.

OP, depending on who did the belt there may be a comeback, get onto them about it.

Some cars by VAG do. My last car was 4 years or 90k km. Was in the handbook.

EPM

EPM wrote: »

Some cars by VAG do. My last car was 4 years or 90k km. Was in the handbook.

Oh, didn't know that.
Apologies to the man who was correct.

bigroad

RoverJames wrote: »

^^^

Comedy Gold

What i am saying is it depends on the garage ,if the car cleaner is only one around they might give him the chance at fitting one.I know i worked in garages for years .why pay a mechanic when joe have a go, can do it.yea funny alright till your the one buying a new engine.

msg11

Bettyboop wrote: »

Has it less than a year,she reckons its only fit for scrap now
shame though was in great condition too:(

I wouldn't scrap a car over a belt I would scrap the engine. Two options on this;

1. New engine (second hand)

2. Engine Rebuild (New parts)

I would go for the second one as you could have the same problem again with the second engine.

Although replacing the engine would be alot quicker than a rebuild.

shamwari

Replacing a timing belt when due is one thing. Replacement of the tensioner and water pump is another and I believe both should be done on that engine when swapping a belt.

In addition, any kind of oil contamination on the belt will cause it to come asunder and fail too. Before this goes any further, someone will need to pull the timing case off and figure out what caused the belt failure before blaming the garage or whoever replaced the belt.

EPM

RoverJames wrote: »

Oh, didn't know that.
Apologies to the man who was correct.

Sure VAG above anyone need to cover their backsides:pac:

bigroad

Yes i agree. the belt can get nipped at the edge or diesel can get on it better wait for more facts.

Nissan doctor

@op, Is the car petrol or diesel?

If its the 1.4 petrol especially there are two timing belts fitted and I've seem many times where people haven't bothered changing the second one, also, if it didn't have a proper timing belt kit fitted which includes new tensioners and guides as well as all new bolts etc then its very common for the tensioner/guide bearings to fail as the housings are plastic.


If you get no joy from the garage(unlikely) and the car was in perfect running order otherwise then a repair of the engine is the best option. Approx 1k would have your cylinder head fully repaired with all new parts/valves/gaskets/t-belt/waterpump etc

Nonoperational

Worth a shot going back to the garage anyway.

jellybaby21

Happens to be my car unfortunately, never again will I buy a german car, going to ring the garage tomorrow, have the car less than a year, would rather spend 1k on a japanese car (which I haven't got anyway so am carless til after christmas) than put a new engine in it for something else to go. First and last time I buy a vw!

Was on the n11 when it happened was very lucky was pulling into slip road, heard sort of a clicking noise and car went dead, battery light came on, so thought it was battery and pulled the car in close to the ditch got out and checked it for loose wires and it looked fine.

Got oh to tow it to mechanic down the road and we discovered was the timing belt, he told me to go to back to the garage as it shouldn't of went after 21k.

I will be scrapping the car not worth a new engine imo unless the garage do something for me which I highly doubt.

dev100

Nissan doctor wrote: »

@op, Is the car petrol or diesel?

If its the 1.4 petrol especially there are two timing belts fitted and I've seem many times where people haven't bothered changing the second one, also, if it didn't have a proper timing belt kit fitted which includes new tensioners and guides as well as all new bolts etc then its very common for the tensioner/guide bearings to fail as the housings are plastic.


If you get no joy from the garage(unlikely) and the car was in perfect running order otherwise then a repair of the engine is the best option. Approx 1k would have your cylinder head fully repaired with all new parts/valves/gaskets/t-belt/waterpump etc

Dont know about the petrol vws but on diesel vws waterpumps need to be changed with every timing belt change. but a classic example is cowboy garages not replacing waterpump. Theyre known to seize up as well.

Guy:Incognito

jellybaby21 wrote: »

Happens to be my car unfortunately, never again will I buy a german car, going to ring the garage tomorrow, have the car less than a year, would rather spend 1k on a japanese car (which I haven't got anyway so am carless til after christmas) than put a new engine in it for something else to go. First and last time I buy a vw!.

Unless the Japanese are using some type of super indestructible belts, they are as prone to breakign as any other countries manufacturers.

dev100

jellybaby21 wrote: »

Happens to be my car unfortunately, never again will I buy a german car, going to ring the garage tomorrow, have the car less than a year, would rather spend 1k on a japanese car (which I haven't got anyway so am carless til after christmas) than put a new engine in it for something else to go. First and last time I buy a vw!

Was on the n11 when it happened was very lucky was pulling into slip road, heard sort of a clicking noise and car went dead, battery light came on, so thought it was battery and pulled the car in close to the ditch got out and checked it for loose wires and it looked fine.

Got oh to tow it to mechanic down the road and we discovered was the timing belt, he told me to go to back to the garage as it shouldn't of went after 21k.

I will be scrapping the car not worth a new engine imo unless the garage do something for me which I highly doubt.

Sounds to me like bad workmanship. Rather than the brand of car. Jap cars go wrong too. Just look at toyota...

Nissan doctor

jellybaby21 wrote: »

Happens to be my car unfortunately, never again will I buy a german car, going to ring the garage tomorrow, have the car less than a year, would rather spend 1k on a japanese car (which I haven't got anyway so am carless til after christmas) than put a new engine in it for something else to go. First and last time I buy a vw!

Was on the n11 when it happened was very lucky was pulling into slip road, heard sort of a clicking noise and car went dead, battery light came on, so thought it was battery and pulled the car in close to the ditch got out and checked it for loose wires and it looked fine.

Got oh to tow it to mechanic down the road and we discovered was the timing belt, he told me to go to back to the garage as it shouldn't of went after 21k.

I will be scrapping the car not worth a new engine imo unless the garage do something for me which I highly doubt.

I'm not an advocate of German car reliability, as some on here will testify, but the problem you have suffered is nothing to do with the fact that its a VW, its to do with poor corner cutting maintenance.

dev100 wrote: »

Dont know about the petrol vws but on diesel vws waterpumps need to be changed with every timing belt change. but a classic example is cowboy garages not replacing waterpump. Theyre known to seize up as well.

Its good practice to change any timing belt driven water pump or any water pump that requires belt removal to change at the same time as changing the timing belt.

Frankie Lee

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

Unless the Japanese are using some type of super indestructible belts, they are as prone to breakign as any other countries manufacturers.

I personally have never seen or heard of a timing belt breaking on a Toyota and have seen a couple of cases of old Avensis' and Corollas going over 150k miles without being changed.

Fishtits

OP, there's definitely something wrong here.

Either the belt was fitted incorrectly - tension?

Other components - water pump, tensioner pulley etc were not replaced, incorrectly fitted.

Or, something made its way into the belt area and caused damage.

You need to get the belt examined by someone competent. They will be able to tell you why it failed.

I'd put the garage on notice either way.

Guy:Incognito

Frankie Lee wrote: »

I personally have never seen or heard of a timing belt breaking on a Toyota and have seen a couple of cases of old Avensis' and Corollas going over 150k miles without being changed.

As you will get with any make. Others are not so lucky.

Companies that makes the belts make them for various different manufacturers, they dont think "oh this is going in to a Toyota, better give them the good stuff"

Nissan doctor

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

As you will get with any make. Others are not so lucky.

Companies that makes the belts make them for various different manufacturers, they dont think "oh this is going in to a Toyota, better give them the good stuff"

Its the car manufacturers that specify the specs for the belts, they don't pick from any generic belts that are already on a shelf. The Japanese also don't use plastic pulleys or tensioners, which are a major fail point on cars that do(such as VAG 1.4 petrol) if exact change schedules aren't followed.

Also, as someone mentioned, with plastic pulleys/tensioners, setting the belt tension correctly is extremely important.

jellybaby21

Rang the garage I bought it off today, got no luck there however didn't think I would, rang the garage that did the timing belt and number was out of service.
Googled said garage and is non existent anymore!

Was considering a new engine for the car, but believe they are very hard to come by, rang a few places today and no joy.

Think I am just going to scrap the car and wait until after christmas to get another one.

As in regards to buying a jap, anyone I know that has vw have probs with them, was warned to stay away from boras but it suited me with 2 kids as it didn't have a massive engine.

Anyway thanks for all your help and comments much appreciated

dev100

jellybaby21 wrote: »

Rang the garage I bought it off today, got no luck there however didn't think I would, rang the garage that did the timing belt and number was out of service.
Googled said garage and is non existent anymore!

Was considering a new engine for the car, but believe they are very hard to come by, rang a few places today and no joy.

Think I am just going to scrap the car and wait until after christmas to get another one.

As in regards to buying a jap, anyone I know that has vw have probs with them, was warned to stay away from boras but it suited me with 2 kids as it didn't have a massive engine.

Anyway thanks for all your help and comments much appreciated

Try traynors up the north. Did you get a price for rebuild? Seems a waste if the car is in relative good nick otherwise?

JJJJNR

is it an 8v or 16v engine, won't cost anymore than 1k to put it right, you don't need a new engine as far as i'm aware.

dev100

JJJJNR wrote: »

is it an 8v or 16v engine, won't cost anymore than 1k to put it right, you don't need a new engine as far as i'm aware.

Is it the right term Half a block is what she needs. Id rather get it repaired.

Replacement valves and whatever else is needed. A good specialist shop should do all this. At least give a worst case quote

Nissan doctor

I have a golf in the garage at the moment with exactly the same problem. In the region of 1k will have the engine in perfect condition again which is likely alot less then its going to cost you to scrap your car and buy a new one.

I have rebuilt countless heads after timing belt failure and, when you do the sums, its always the cheaper option unless the car was in bits already before the belt broke.