UPC Laser card charge problem

Heart Break Kid

Hi.

So on the 04/10/11 UPC withdrew 365.63 euro from my laser card account.
I do not have a UPC account nor do i have any standing order or direct debit to pay UPC. They just took my monies. I never gave authorisation for them nor anyone else to take it either.

I could not find out if it was UPC till the 06/10/11.

I have paid UPC with my laser card in the past to pay my parents bill on a few occasions. I have checked with my folks to see if they have used my details in the past and they have no,t nor has any money been paid into their UPC account.

UPC simply took the money. I have been onto UPC already and they have no idea why they would take money from my account. They don't understand why they would take money. They told me that they would have their financial team get in touch with me but i haven't had any word on when i get my money back.

This messes my month up a tad bit due to trying to plan a few things myself.

If i remember correctly a UPC rep floated around boards.ie , maybe he cold help if someone could direct him my way.

Thanks in advance

jor el

Contact your bank, report the fraud.

slimjimmc

It could be fraud or it could be just a simple clerical error. Contact your bank never the less. If UPC are approved for Direct Debit Plus they can set up a DD without you instructing your bank.

jor el

I take it from the OP that this was done on Laser card. Direct Debit doesn't apply, as the OP never gave them any bank details.

BrianD

jor el wrote: »

Contact your bank, report the fraud.

You can't state it's fraud when it may be a clerical error.

If the account has been paid with the debit card in the past and it may have been put as the method of payment. So the OP does have a link with UPC despite having no UPC account or DD in place.

Bearing in mind that this happened 3 days ago I think that the OP will have to be reasonable in allowing them find out what happens.

Or go to your parents, tell them you've paid the bill and ask them for the money!

Heart Break Kid

Bank don't consider it fraud because i have had payments in the past to UPC.

Bearing in mind that this happened 3 days ago allowing them find out what happens.

i don't see why i should be as its my money and i owe nothing to UPC. They had no right to take money from my pocket and mess up plans i had regarding spending my money.

Or go to your parents, tell them you've paid the bill and ask them for the money

not as simple as that. The money that was taken wasn‘t used for my folks account. There no records of a payment of 365 euro on their account..

So either Someone used my details to pay for another account that's not my folks ie fraud or UPC just took money because they could.

Millicent

Heart Break Kid wrote: »

Bank don't consider it fraud because i have had payments in the past to UPC.

Is that what the bank said to you? You didn't authorise a payment on the card. I don't see how they can argue around that.

Heart Break Kid

Millicent wrote: »

Is that what the bank said to you? You didn't authorise a payment on the card. I don't see how they can argue around that.

According to BOI college green, once i allow them to take payment once, they can debit my card whenever they want because i gave previous authorisation to make one payment beforehand. Personally think that's bollox and just a way for BOI disowning the issue by saying it has nothing to do with them.

Really need for this to be sorted so i will know how to budget myself this month

Aishae

By that reasoning any store I purchased stuff in could take extra. A previous company I had a direct debit with could suddenly take money too. That sounds incredibly fishy

Millicent

Heart Break Kid wrote: »

According to BOI college green, once i allow them to take payment once, they can debit my card whenever they want because i gave previous authorisation to make one payment beforehand. Personally think that's bollox and just a way for BOI disowning the issue by saying it has nothing to do with them.

Really need for this to be sorted so i will know how to budget myself this month

Don't let them fob you off like that. That's a load of crap. Go back into them, tell them you authorised one payment and state when it was, and tell them you did not authorise it this time. It is their problem, whether they like it. If the first person you speak to still insists it's not the bank's problem, ask to speak to someone else. Ask them to tell you exactly how the card was used, where and by what method (phone/physically/internet).

daheff

do u have online banking?

if u do check under account details for Direct Debits. find UPC here and select cancel direct debit. they now no longer have authorisation to take money by DD from your account


imo -UPC are a shambles. you'll spend a long time looking for this money back....especially if u arent a customer. Tell your bank its fraud and that you want it reported as such....if needs be go to the nearest police station and tell them you want to file a report, once filed get a copy and send to both upc and your bank.

good luck getting your money

Heart Break Kid

By that reasoning any store I purchased stuff in could take extra. A previous company I had a direct debit with could suddenly take money too. That sounds incredibly fishy

Trust me i said the exact same thing. She still stated because UPC had authorize to do it once they could do it again.Apparently she was the Trinity branch manager i think. I more or less said thats bull. I did ask UPC would they ever take monies from account like they have now and they said its not a practice they do.

if u do check under account details for Direct Debits. find UPC here and select cancel direct debit. they now no longer have authorisation to take money by DD from your account

I have online banking but i do not nor have i ever had A direct debit nor standing order nor even an account with UPC personally.

I have paid 2-3 bills for my parents and thats it. I never gave consent for my bank to let UPC take that money from my account.

Go back into them, tell them you authorised one payment and state when it was, and tell them you did not authorise it this time. It is their problem, whether they like it. If the first person you speak to still insists it's not the bank's problem, ask to speak to someone else.

The person i was talking to was the manager of the branch or at least higher then the customer service desk.

I will drop in again and ask how the payment was made.

Have contacted UPC and they have no idea whats going on.

the_syco

Heart Break Kid wrote: »

I will drop in again and ask how the payment was made.

Also ask the BOI person who do you bring to court; them or UPC? :pac:

foggy_lad

Heart Break Kid wrote: »

According to BOI college green, once i allow them to take payment once, they can debit my card whenever they want because i gave previous authorisation to make one payment beforehand. Personally think that's bollox and just a way for BOI disowning the issue by saying it has nothing to do with them.

Really need for this to be sorted so i will know how to budget myself this month

Step one is to go directly to your own bank branch, if that is college green then go back in there!

Step two is to TELL the cashier you want a chargeback done for an unauthorised payment on your ccard.

Step three is the cashier prints off a cancellation record for the payment and asks you to sign it as the person seeking the chargeback.

If the bank refuse to do a chargeback tell them they must do this as the payment in not authorised and is fraudulant because of this. Tell them to inform you of their refusal on a letter and to inclusde any reasons they use to make their decision. tell them you will be making a complaint to IPSO(irish paymant services organisation) and in writing to the head offce of the bank. Bank staff will usually refuse such requests sometimes out of a desire to keep their paperwork to a minimum but when threatened with a Formal complaint they will usually go out of sight for a minute and come back prepared to sort the issue out!

Heart Break Kid

Nice gent at UPC confirmed they would never just take money from my account in a direct debit manor without me knowing .

So off to my to report Fraud again. Pointless busy work. Id already done this.

Ken.

While your there tell the bank that they better not add any charge's to your account if you miss a direct debit because of their incompetence.

On the same note inform upc that if you do incur charges for their fraud you will sue the ass off them.

If upc think they might get stung for more than what they took(mistake or not) the ball should start gathering pace rapidly.

jor el

Heart Break Kid wrote: »

According to BOI college green, once i allow them to take payment once, they can debit my card whenever they want because i gave previous authorisation to make one payment beforehand. Personally think that's bollox and just a way for BOI disowning the issue by saying it has nothing to do with them.

Technically they can. Once you give your card (credit or debit) details to any company, they can then apply charges any time, but should only ever do it when appropriate and approved by the card holder. This is the basis of how the whole card payment system works. They must keep a record of your authorisation too. They can't just do it on a whim, or out of mistake/malice without correcting it immediately upon notification. The bank also has a responsibility to make sure the rules are adhered to. Once you've informed the bank that this charge was in error (not authorised by you) then they should start an investigation into it. They can't just say though luck, and ignore it.

If you have detail of the transaction, like a reference code, then you should give that to them, or to UPC if you ask them to reverse the transaction. A reference code, or payment reference, would help them to track it down.

Heart Break Kid wrote: »

So off to my to report Fraud again. Pointless busy work. Id already done this.

Do not leave without getting them to take a report of the false charge on your card. Ask the person you're talking to if it is their name you should put on the official Financial Regulator complaint.

Heart Break Kid

Technically they can. Once you give your card (credit or debit) details to any company, they can then apply charges any time, but should only ever do it when appropriate and approved by the card holder.

Technically yes, but im fairly confident they don't initiate any payments without me give authorization first. Just annoyed how my bank more or less said it is not there issue and i must get in touch with UPC. UPC just got back to me and said yes its all on my bank

Not much they can do but appreciated their help

Millicent

Heart Break Kid wrote: »

Technically yes, but im fairly confident they don't initiate any payments without me give authorization first. Just annoyed how my bank more or less said it is not there issue and i must get in touch with UPC.

Whatever else happens with it, I'd be making a strenuous complaint to both BOI and UPC, if I was you. It's an absolutely ridiculous situation. Hope you get it sorted soon.

jor el

Heart Break Kid wrote: »

Not much they can do but appreciated their help

Actually, they can reverse the charge easily enough. They just need the payment reference. Neither side should be pushing this off on the other, as they are both at fault now by denying responsibility.

You should submit a complaint to both Comreg and the Financial Regulator, as both parties have denied responsibility, and are not helping in getting your money returned.

Between the bank and UPC they should be able to trace the payment, and reverse it. This should not be too difficult a task either.

BrianD

Heart Break Kid wrote: »

Bank don't consider it fraud because i have had payments in the past to UPC.

i don't see why i should be as its my money and i owe nothing to UPC. They had no right to take money from my pocket and mess up plans i had regarding spending my money.

not as simple as that. The money that was taken wasn‘t used for my folks account. There no records of a payment of 365 euro on their account..

So either Someone used my details to pay for another account that's not my folks ie fraud or UPC just took money because they could.

Ok, there's two things at play here. It's obvious to me that UPC have your debit card attached to an account and they charged it as they have in the past. It's not a DD by the sounds of it but a charge to your debit card. Possibly something you allowed happen by accident or they just assumed it was the method of payment for that account. As it's your parents account it's possible that they received the notice to charge and not you e.g. "We will charge your account on ..."

Instead of flapping about here you and calling 'fraud' need to be more focused on finding out where the money went and what account is was assigned to. It's a bit early days to be considering going to ComReg of Fin Reg until you've made all reasonable efforts to sort this out and it doesn't happen overnight.

UPC should not be giving you the run around either. Put the bank aside and concentrate on UPC. I'd make sure you have your parents account details in front of you when you talk to them or you'll get "we can only talk to the account holder".

jor el

BrianD wrote: »

Ok, there's two things at play here. It's obvious to me that UPC have your debit card attached to an account and they charged it as they have in the past. It's not a DD by the sounds of it but a charge to your debit card. Possibly something you allowed happen by accident or they just assumed it was the method of payment for that account. As it's your parents account it's possible that they received the notice to charge and not you e.g. "We will charge your account on ..."

He's already stated that his card was used to pay his parent's UPC bill on a previous occasion, but on this occasion the money has not gone on to his parent's account, and that UPC don't know where it is. Both bank and UPC are telling him to go to the other to get it sorted, and neither of them seem to be the least interested in solving the problem. Even though it does take time to resolve such issues, at the moment neither company is doing anything which means it will never be resolved.

His next action should be to forcibly tell the bank and UPC to resolve this (by escalating it to someone higher than the first one to answer the phone), and get acknowledgement that they are doing something. If they refuse, then now is exactly the time to go to their respective regulators.

Heart Break Kid

So bank monday morning. If they fail to recognise it as fraud or theft again , Ill follow it via each individual regulator.

BrianD

Heart Break Kid wrote: »

So bank monday morning. If they fail to recognise it as fraud or theft again , Ill follow it via each individual regulator.

What are you going to the bank for when UPC have your money?

The other thing to consider is that the money hasn't arrived in your parents account yet? Those magical "funds in transit" days. Plus as funds arrive into UPC they have to be assigned to accounts. I don't know what level of sophistication their system is.

I wouldn't waste your time with regulators. Sort it out yourself directly with the parties involved.

wmpdd3

BrianD wrote: »

What are you going to the bank for when UPC have your money?

The other thing to consider is that the money hasn't arrived in your parents account yet? Those magical "funds in transit" days. Plus as funds arrive into UPC they have to be assigned to accounts. I don't know what level of sophistication their system is.

I wouldn't waste your time with regulators. Sort it out yourself directly with the parties involved.

With respect, I completely disagree with the post above. BOI is at fault here. The OP has a contract with the bank to provide a banking service and a debit card service. They have broken the regulators rules in relation to the process of using that card for payments.

Just because you used your card in the local shop a few times, doesn't mean they can charge you for a weeks shopping when ever they like.

I would demand charge back, nothing less. Unauthorised charge on the account, doesn't matter if it is UPC or a Nigerian prince.

I mean its a weeks wages that are missing. I fit was me I'd be chained to the counter in the branch.

java

Wow thats a lot of money to have taken without authorisation. Best of luck OP. I hope you get sorted soon.

foggy_lad

Heart Break Kid wrote: »

So bank monday morning. If they fail to recognise it as fraud or theft again , Ill follow it via each individual regulator.

Bank on monday morning and DEMAND they do a chargeback as the payment is unauthorised. you gave UPC permission to use your debit card once for a payment and while they may hold onto your details this is purely for convenience in case you wish to pay using the card again but it is fraud for them to try or to use your card details again without your explicit consent!

Heart Break Kid

BrianD wrote: »

What are you going to the bank for when UPC have your money?

The other thing to consider is that the money hasn't arrived in your parents account yet? Those magical "funds in transit" days. Plus as funds arrive into UPC they have to be assigned to accounts. I don't know what level of sophistication their system is.

I wouldn't waste your time with regulators. Sort it out yourself directly with the parties involved.

Your missing the point. Regardless of sitituation regarding my parents UPC account, No money should leave my account with my authorization and especially without my knowing.

the_syco

As paying UPC was a once off, is there any point going the Data Commissioner route into why they still have the OP's details on file?

Just an extra burning log under UPC's arse, as such. They may move quicker when they cop on that the OP is hell bent on getting the money they robbed off them...?

Heart Break Kid

Ok so i have a letter ready to go to UPC and BOI demanded that i recieve an update should i not get any help on monday. I've given 5 working days for a update and 11to have the issue sorted. There's no way i can afford to wait 30 days before my money is returned(I've been qouted this timeframe as a rough time to have the issue fixed)


Worst thing about this is i actually sell UPC.

Millicent

Heart Break Kid wrote: »

Ok so i have a letter ready to go to UPC and BOI demanded that i recieve an update should i not get any help on monday. I've given 5 working days for a update and 11to have the issue sorted. There's no way i can afford to wait 30 days before my money is returned(I've been qouted this timeframe as a rough time to have the issue fixed)


Worst thing about this is i actually sell UPC.

Oh God, I'm sorry for laughing, but the bloody irony. Is there anyone you're connected to with work who might be able to speed the process up? Lot to be said for a good auld bit of back-scratching/nepotism.