Traffic unit with no cars or bikes

POGAN

Two different articles from different parts of country Disgraceful and no money for anymore cars till 2013!!!!!:(


GARDAI attached to the Thomastown Traffic Unit have no official patrol car assigned to them making it almost impossible for them to carry out their duties.


It raises questions about how drivers will behave in the area the officers are supposed to monitor, from Bennettsbridge to Glenmore.

Bizarrely, the nine members of the unit, have been given the temporary use of a car which would not be capable of pursuing another vehicle in a high speed chase.

The officers, who are thought to be extremely unhappy about the situation, are more or less confined to barracks because of the scenario which highlights the Government cuts in garda budgets.

A senior garda source told the Kilkenny People that the unit was not able to properly police the area. “People can drive around at whatever speed they want and it is highly unlikely they will be caught,” he said adding that it was also unlikely that there would be cars available to man checkpoints over the coming weeks. “There is a bank holiday weekend coming up and normally there would be a high garda presence on the roads but I don’t see how that can happen this year,” he said.

The nine-member unit have been given the ‘temporary use’ of one vehicle - a Galaxy marked garda car - but according to the garda source that particular car would not be able to pursue another vehicle. “It would be unsafe to drive at high speeds in a chase. In any case that vehicle is attached to the forensic section of the station so we do not have first call on it. If it is at another incident then our unit has no vehicle to use. We are not able to get our own so the roads are left unpoliced. We are begging for cars, the men are available but there are no cars for them to use,” he said.

Previously they had two vehicles but when they were not replaced after they exceeded 300,000 kilometres two weeks ago the unit, which comprises of one sergeant and eight gardai, were given the temporary use of another vehicle which one garda source said is unsuitable.

The garda source said that the gardai attached to the unit are unable to fulfil their garda duties. “We are trying to keep busy. Up until three months ago we had a marked garda car and an unmarked patrol car but they reached the end of their life and we are left with nothing. Normally two of us would be out on patrol in one car and two other members would be out in the second car but now we are stuck indoors and not able to do our jobs,” he said.

On Friday the garda source said that they were informed that ‘Garda headquarters had washed their hands of the car situation’. “We were told that headquarters have said it is up to the Chief Superintendent to juggle the cars and that there is no funding available and there won’t be until 2013. There were eight cars attached to the station, now there is four and only one of those is a new car. At the rate this is going there will only be one garda car to police the Thomastown Garda area by next Spring,” he added.

A garda press office spokesman said that deployment of vehicles on the ground is a matter for the relevant Divisional Officers (Chief Superintendents) and section heads in specialised units who can allocate and reallocate vehicles to meet specific requirements.

THE LIMERICK Leader has learned that the Garda Traffic Corps in Limerick only has two motorbikes available to them, which is further evidence of the cuts to garda resources.


They previously had six but this has dwindled to just two in recent months to cover the whole of the county. It is understood that the majority of the bikes went over the set mileage limit and have not been replaced.

The Limerick Leader asked the Garda Press Office how can Gardai in the Traffic Corps do their job to the best of their ability with just two bikes?

They said they “do not discuss operational matters”.

Cathaoirleach of Limerick County Council, Mary Harty said it’s a further reduction of services at a time “when our statistics are improving in County Limerick regarding road accidents and traffic offences”.

There are 10 road deaths in County Limerick to date this year which is down on 2010.

“This would seem to be a very retrograde step. Motorbikes taken off the road and not replacing them doesn’t send a very good signal out to those who are likely to offend. They are an essential service to keep the rest of us in check.

“A lot of these things are a consequence of the economic downturn in which we find ourselves but some of these services will have to be maintained to an effective standard because two bikes for the Traffic Corps to cover the whole of the county is most ineffective,” said Cllr Harty.

Cllr Liam Galvin, chairman of the joint policing committee meeting, said he is aware of stations that are inadequately resourced for cars and bikes as well.

“It’s a national issue. If we don’t have proper visibility on the streets with cars, bikes and on foot patrol it’s a sad day for the country. I would be hoping that any superintendent or sergeant in their own districts that if they were tight for resources they would make it known to their public representatives. We will then make their case known to the minister,” said Cllr Galvin.

CaseyRyback

What many UK Forces are now doing is "merging" traffic and regular units to save money........which when you translate the management speak means traffic units are being disbanded.

pa990

it's not just traffic units that are operating without cars !!!

i dont see the point in not replacing the cars when they hit 300k, all thats happening is that the bill is being pushed out to next year.. or the year after.

instead of replacing X amount of cars this year, they will be replacing 2X or 3X cars in the future, which will result in a massive bill for that year.

keeper29

How economical are the cars that are still on the road below the magic 300,000km mark??

Collected one from garage today - new drivers seat and has been fitted with its 4th alternator in the past 12months. Safety check every 10,000 and serviced every 20,000 plus incidental repairs. 200,000 on the clock now. I would imagine this car is completely worthless and yet they insist on throwing dead money into it and the rest of the fleet.
IMO the 06/07 Mondeos are all looking old, unsafe and not in keeping with the image the job wants us to portray. Even after a wash they dont look clean anymore!!!

POGAN

Yes if there is traffic units like that imagine the regulars unit...i know unit that lost there patrol car 2 years ago they replaced it with 1.4 focus which then was grounded now have redeployed traffic car (06) wont be long going and traffic unit that were using that car is down less cover people are aware there not around that much..... something serious will happen and it will be too late to act!!!!!!!!!!

Mister Jingles

Might sound silly but would second hand cars be out of the question if things are that bad ?

msg11

Mister Jingles wrote: »

Might sound silly but would second hand cars be out of the question if things are that bad ?

I have often said they should just buy second hand car's with low milage 05/06 etc..

Apparently there is some sort of a problem with these as the car don't have a full history with the Garda or some non sense along them lines.

Jesus you have to feel sorry for the Garda they can't even go on strike. How are you expected to work with no tools to do the job.

Amazing how they can't buy cars for the Garda yet they can still afford to be paying people in the dail massive payoffs.

Random

if this is true then its ****ing retarded. what high ranking gardai have garda provided cars and only use them to get to and from work? they should give them to the gardai at rank and file level who need them.

starviewadams

Jaysus,that's ridiculous and shouldn't be allowed to happen in this day and age to members of any emergency service,I'm sure if a minesterial car had to be replaced it would be done fairly quickly though.

dfbemt

I know of fire engines and ambulances that have exceeded 300,000km. Where does the 300,000km 'rule' come from?

Some Fire Services around the country buy in 10 - 12 yr old fire engines from the UK. Can AGS not do similar and buy in 2nd hand vehicles, ex car hire fleet for example ?

In a situation like this, where AGS are essentially broke, could they not allow any Gardaí that are willing, to use their own personal car? AGS wouldn't buy the car, but would pay for Siren/Blues installation and petrol/diesel costs for the vehicle during it's used hours (whenever that particular Garda is on duty).

Admittedly, I can see why a lot of AGS members wouldn't want their cars being used in the line of work, but you may get a few that'd do it? They'd just have to sign something saying they'll always be with the car when it's in use, and that they can stand over the car and that it is roadworthy and suitable to the type of work it will be involved in?


It's a long-shot, I know, but...


(or could they not fund raise from the public? That makes even more sense!)

goldie fish

dfbemt wrote: »

I know of fire engines and ambulances that have exceeded 300,000km. Where does the 300,000km 'rule' come from?

Some Fire Services around the country buy in 10 - 12 yr old fire engines from the UK. Can AGS not do similar and buy in 2nd hand vehicles, ex car hire fleet for example ?

Commercial Diesels last longer than passenger petrols. Its an odd mechanical fact. Probably something to do with how the combustion takes place.
The 300000km used to be 100,000miles for cars and 50,000miles for bikes. As vehicles get older, their maintenance costs become more pressing, and modern cars, with some exceptions, are not really designed to last longer than 200000km. If they did, Car Makers wouldn't make any money. The number increased as replacements became more difficult to secure. The OPW car shopping list has not even been updated since 2008.
Also, Fire Engines do not spend 24 hours/365 days driving around the countryside.
I'm sure an analysis of logbooks for the vehicles would reveal a lot about the difference of usage.
The Bikes that limerick had were already second hand, within the force, when they arrived, having been passed down from Dublin Traffic units that had replaced their bikes with newer Deauvilles and Yamahas. Indeed one of the Deauvilles used in limerick was an original 2001 version.

Delancey

Deleted User wrote: »

In a situation like this, where AGS are essentially broke, could they not allow any Gardaí that are willing, to use their own personal car? AGS wouldn't buy the car, but would pay for Siren/Blues installation and petrol/diesel costs for the vehicle during it's used hours (whenever that particular Garda is on duty).

Admittedly, I can see why a lot of AGS members wouldn't want their cars being used in the line of work, but you may get a few that'd do it? They'd just have to sign something saying they'll always be with the car when it's in use, and that they can stand over the car and that it is roadworthy and suitable to the type of work it will be involved in?


It's a long-shot, I know, but...


(or could they not fund raise from the public? That makes even more sense!)

It really would be unworkable , who would want blue lights on their personal vehicle ? How would Gardai be compensated for the massive depreciation to their vehicles ? How could one reconcile the notion of being ' off duty ' but driving what essentially is a marked Garda vehicle ?
All of the above pale into insignificance when you take the insurance / liability / indemnity issues that such a move would give rise to .

A lot of UK forces lease their vehicles , perhaps that would be something to look at ?

source

dfbemt wrote: »

I know of fire engines and ambulances that have exceeded 300,000km. Where does the 300,000km 'rule' come from?

Some Fire Services around the country buy in 10 - 12 yr old fire engines from the UK. Can AGS not do similar and buy in 2nd hand vehicles, ex car hire fleet for example ?

300,000km is the maximum distance that a car manufacturer will stand over the safety of the vehicle. Basically the authorised dealer (where all Garda vehicles get serviced) won't work on the cars past this point as they cannot ensure the safety of the car.

deadwood

msg11 wrote: »

How are you expected to work with no tools to do the job.

Traffic Units are full of tools.:D

msg11

As said 300,000KM is the limit that some car manufacturers put for the cars end of life.

It's not just the engine, engine mounts, break lines, wheel nuts etc.. Been exposed to the elements for so long, small components just start failing. Giving way to bigger problems.

Tango Alpha 51

For nearly 10 years in the old MWHB Amb Svce, we had the policy of replacing vehicles every 5 yrs or 150,000 miles (240,000kms) which ever came first. This all changed with the advent of the National Ambulance Service. We have a lot of vehicles in Limerick which are only 3 & 4 years old which have reached this mark but they won't be replaced for the next yr or two. Mileage will have considerably increased by then!!.

Paulzx

goldie fish wrote: »

Also, Fire Engines do not spend 24 hours/365 days driving around the countryside.
I'm sure an analysis of logbooks for the vehicles would reveal a lot about the difference of usage.
.

Correct. Our fire engines don't do the same level of mileage. When we compare DFB ambulances and Fire engines the level of mileage is hugely different. Most of our 3 year old ambos will have well over 300,000 on the clock.

What you have not mentioned though is use of the PTO. Mileage is only half the story on a fire engine. Every day the PTO is engaged at incidents and is causing wear and tear on the engine.

At a protracted incident the engine could be pumping for hours and hours on end.

For example a fire engine could use a full tank of diesel in a shift yet only drive 10kms.

knifey_spoonie

It think the engine is the least of the worries when it comes to the 300000km limit. Its more to do with road safety, IE heavy wear on critical parts within suspension, brakes and the like. There are a number of components that may not fail but have considerably reduced performance due to wear and degradation over time. This was somewhat negated by the introduction of the intervention packs which were fitted around 160000km, which replaced all safety critical suspension and braking parts regardless of failure or not.

Having seen what damage and hardship garda car gets on a daily basis its not fair to compare it to the likes of an Ambo or Fire appliance which don't get driven to the same extremes.

Paulzx

knifey_spoonie wrote: »

Having seen what damage and hardship garda car gets on a daily basis its not fair to compare it to the likes of an Ambo or Fire appliance which don't get driven to the same extremes.

I'm sorry but i just don't agree with you on that statement especially when it comes to ambulances. The existing Ford Transits we have been using for years are completely underpowered and overweight due to the upgraded bodies on them.

They get the bol£$x driven out of them 24 hrs a day and are blowing engines, going through brakes and wearing out suspensions constantly due to this abuse. The mileage on them is savage and they are hacked all over the place. It is not actually possible from them to be driven any harder or for any longer as they spend more time on the road than in the station

I can't comment yet on the new Mercs as we havent been using them as long.

ratracer

I can't speak for ambo's, but i don't think a fire engine can be compared to garda car. Most second hand UK appliances that have been brought in here have come from rural retained brigades in the UK that have a policy of fleet renewal and a budget to match. Also, in my experience, these appliances are then used in retained brigades here which wouldn't have more than 200 calls a year. Yes, at protracted jobs they could be pumping for a long time, but this is very infrequent.

Don't get me wrong, i'm not in favour of buying any emergency service vehicles second hand, if they're not good/safe enough for our counterparts aross the pond why are they good enough for us?

Separately, from earlier in this thread (I haven't figured out how to quote multiple messages yet), is it not a bit irresponsible for a 'senior garda source' to be telling motorists they can be driving as fast as they want, or that there will be no speed checks? I know they have to resort to this for publicity, but the boy racers of the country will now be having their AGM's in Thomastown methinks.

Tango Alpha 51

Totally agree with your comments Paul. In relation to the new Merc's, they would appear lately to be blowing alot of engines between 220,000 & 260,000 kms. Currently 3 off the run in Linerick with this issue.

Knifeyspoonie, Amb svce vehicles are driven just as hard as AGS vehicles & suffer from the same issues.

Rackstar

buzzman wrote: »

Knifeyspoonie, Amb svce vehicles are driven just as hard as AGS vehicles & suffer from the same issues.

I presume he's more getting at the point that AGS vehicles get involved in pursuits where they might have to follow some lunatic across a central median, through a field or something similar at high speeds. Then you might have the lunatic in the pursuit turn back and ram the garda car for fun. This is not really going to happen to an ambulance / fire service vehicle.

IMO squad cars would get driven harder and suffer a lot more abuse than ambulance or fire service vehicles.

Paulzx

ratracer wrote: »

I can't speak for ambo's, but i don't think a fire engine can be compared to garda car. Most second hand UK appliances that have been brought in here have come from rural retained brigades in the UK that have a policy of fleet renewal and a budget to match. Also, in my experience, these appliances are then used in retained brigades here which wouldn't have more than 200 calls a year. Yes, at protracted jobs they could be pumping for a long time, but this is very infrequent.

Don't get me wrong, i'm not in favour of buying any emergency service vehicles second hand, if they're not good/safe enough for our counterparts aross the pond why are they good enough for us?

Separately, from earlier in this thread (I haven't figured out how to quote multiple messages yet), is it not a bit irresponsible for a 'senior garda source' to be telling motorists they can be driving as fast as they want, or that there will be no speed checks? I know they have to resort to this for publicity, but the boy racers of the country will now be having their AGM's in Thomastown methinks.

I've had the misfortune to be on the receiving end of some of these second hand imported fire engines i.e I've had to drive them and they have generally been junkers. They have no place being bought for busy urban brigades and only end up on our shores as they are dirt cheap.

I don't believe rural retained brigades should be buying 15 year old second hand appliances either

Paulzx

Rackstar wrote: »

I presume he's more getting at the point that AGS vehicles get involved in pursuits where they might have to follow some lunatic across a central median, through a field or something similar at high speeds. Then you might have the lunatic in the pursuit turn back and ram the garda car for fun. This is not really going to happen to an ambulance / fire service vehicle.

IMO squad cars would get driven harder and suffer a lot more abuse than ambulance or fire service vehicles.

Every emergency service has differing needs for its vehicles.

Every Garda car does not spend its life speeding across kerbs and fields. If this was happening every day there wouldn't be a vehicle left on the road and the drivers would spend there days in front of the Superintendant.

Much of the time a garda car is on the road is spent patrolling at normal road speed. They are driven hard, have huge mileage put up on them and probably don't get a huge amount of care and attention from their users.

Ambos don't drive hard across fields or kerbs but probably spend more of their time on blues than a squad car. They put up eqivalent mileage to squad cars but don't do any patrolling so tend to be driven hard most of the time.

Fire engines do the least mileage of all of them but have wear and tear from PTO use and the extra complications of being a hgv being driven on blues.

Every service has differing uses, different vehicles and requirements and it is incorrect to say that just because one service performs an activity that others don't that their vehicles end up suffering more.

Delancey

I have to agree with the earlier comment about a '' senior Garda source '' putting this type of information into the public domain , doubtless it's a frustrating situation but advertising an area as deficient in patrol cars does seem to invite all sorts of undesirables.

Delancey

Delancey wrote: »

I have to agree with the earlier comment about a '' senior Garda source '' putting this type of information into the public domain , doubtless it's a frustrating situation but advertising an area as deficient in patrol cars does seem to invite all sorts of undesirables.

Prove it's a senior Garda source? Sure any of us known Gardaí here could be quoted as Garda sources.

Delancey

foreign wrote: »

Prove it's a senior Garda source? Sure any of us known Gardaí here could be quoted as Garda sources.

Never said it was a senior Garda source , hence the inverted commas , agree that it could just be a journalist embellishing a story by giving his sources as '' senior '' , the ' Deep Throat of AGS '

monument

Delancey wrote: »

I have to agree with the earlier comment about a '' senior Garda source '' putting this type of information into the public domain , doubtless it's a frustrating situation but advertising an area as deficient in patrol cars does seem to invite all sorts of undesirables.

Should this kind of thing not be public information regardless the source?

Delancey

monument wrote: »

Should this kind of thing not be public information regardless the source?

A very good question - on the one hand the public / taxpayer has the right to know how the Gardai are not getting the equipment they need.

On the other hand I don't think highlighting a specific area as deficient is wise ...... I guess it would take the wisdom of Solomon to decide whats right in this scenario.

Mycroft H

On a sligthtly related note....

I saw an unmarked blue Opel Signum on blues in dundrum today. I didn't know ags had unmarked signums......

POGAN

Few them around very nice with the blues, there marked traffic one aswell

Mister Jingles

You sure it wasn't a Vectra cos to be honest there's F all difference in the two. Either way they do look the business

POGAN

was in garage, marked car and unmarked car were in there getting serviced at the same no car cover other than traffic car from another town close by

Mycroft H

Defenitly a signum, thought it was a astra at first but it was a 2.2litre blue opel signum.

Vectra has saloon end, this was a hatchback

goldie fish

What's a signum?

Mycroft H

Opel Signum

Luxury hatchback made between 2003-2008.

goldie fish

Its not often I say this, but I have never heard of them. GM must have had a few to spare lyin about somewhere.

FGR

Jeremy Clarkson learned to drive one of them from the back seat through the use of various household instruments.