What do you think happens when you die?

johnners2981

I'd like to know what you think happens to you when you die? Could you explain what you think you'll do for eternity?

I don't believe in god but I live a good life so would I be turned away if there is an afterlife or accepted even though I don't believe.

Do you believe in people going to hell and spending eternity being burned or is that just a scare tactic from the church?

I'm just curious to know what you believe happens, I believe I die and thats it, so I enjoy my life while I can.

charlemont

I reckon you wouldn't want to have caused hurt to too many people in life, All of this is unlikely to have been for nothing.

antiskeptic

johnners2981 wrote: »

I'd like to know what you think happens to you when you die? Could you explain what you think you'll do for eternity?

The biblical position suggests that the Earth as we know it will be restored to it's full glory. Try to imagine your existence where there is no pain, sin, disease, sadness, futility, boredom, suffering, etc, etc.

The add the fact that God will be present. So instead of admiring and enjoying the things he has created, you can enjoy the creator himself.

I don't believe in god but I live a good life so would I be turned away if there is an afterlife or accepted even though I don't believe.

Heaven (the new Earth in fact, per above) or Hell isn't somewhere you end up based on your performance so the fact you live a good life (by your own measure or the measure of others who live a good life (according to their own measure or the measure of others who live a good ..) ) isn't relevant in that regard.

What believing entails is a subject of discussion but on the face of it, your occupying an unbelievers position would mean you 'go to Hell'

Do you believe in people going to hell and spending eternity being burned or is that just a scare tactic from the church?

I believe God uses all kinds of imagery and metaphor to attempt to convey all kinds of things that cannot be conveyed by other means (bar direct experience). The fact that God chooses to utilizes imagery of eternal combustion leads me to suspect it doesn't matter whether it's actual burning or not. It will be horrific.

Answer me this: is there any description of the best love you've ever experienced that could begin to convey but a fraction of the intensity of the experience itself?

I'm just curious to know what you believe happens, I believe I die and thats it, so I enjoy my life while I can.

Fire away. I believe that God is at work in his attempt to save all from eternal separation from God (aka Hell). I believe that everyone will be given the opportunity to avail of that salvation. If you enter the grave with the same mindset that you currently maintain then it will because your answer to God's query of you was in the negative.

You don't have to believe in God in order that he exist. Similiarly, you have to be aware that God is inquiring into your response to him (w.r.t. your eternal destination) in order that he be inquiring and that you be answering.

IamtheWalrus

johnners2981 wrote: »

I'd like to know what you think happens to you when you die? Could you explain what you think you'll do for eternity?

I don't believe in god but I live a good life so would I be turned away if there is an afterlife or accepted even though I don't believe.

Do you believe in people going to hell and spending eternity being burned or is that just a scare tactic from the church?

I'm just curious to know what you believe happens, I believe I die and thats it, so I enjoy my life while I can.

The chances are when you die that will be it. There is no evidence to suggest otherwise. It is my belief that religion was made by man as a way for people to cope with the fact that one day they will die. Other animals don't need this tool because they are not 'smart' enough to know that one day they will die.

Twin-go

Mind - Imagine what it was like before you were concived - Thats what it will probably be like after your death.

Your body - If burried it is worm food. If cremated you're ashes.

Morbert

Death is strangely paradoxical if you're an atheist. An eternal instant.

Twin-go

Morbert wrote: »

Death is strangely paradoxical if you're an atheist. An eternal instant.

Isn't death more of a paradox for Christians than Athiests?

If Christians believe that death brings you to paradise why do they fear death? Why have a survival instinct. If they die and are in a better place why is their death a tragedy?

gent9662

I believe that nothing happens. You came from nothing and you go back to nothing. Sometimes I literally shiver when I think about it if I think about it enough. It's tough but that's it!

I believe that my energy and spirit will live on in my kids.

johnners2981

dclane wrote: »

I believe that nothing happens. You came from nothing and you go back to nothing. Sometimes I literally shiver when I think about it if I think about it enough. It's tough but that's it!

I believe that my energy and spirit will live on in my kids.

Thats what I believe too. When I was a kid I was so scared of going to hell, I don't think its right teaching kids religion, they'll believe anything you tell them.

But I'd like to know what people who believe in god think happens when they die, what do you do for eternity? Do you still have to eat? Can you listen to music, go to a concert? Play some football? I don't see there being a lot to do tbh

mcmoustache

johnners2981 wrote: »

Thats what I believe too. When I was a kid I was so scared of going to hell, I don't think its right teaching kids religion, they'll believe anything you tell them.

But I'd like to know what people who believe in god think happens when they die, what do you do for eternity? Do you still have to eat? Can you listen to music, go to a concert? Play some football? I don't see there being a lot to do tbh

I think that according to Catholic teachings via Church approved paintings, you grow wings playing the harp in the clouds. You also put on weight.

Baggio1

i believe,
when we die we are brought to the judgement seat of christ to give an account of our earthly lives.... and at the end of this we will discover our destiny according to our sins, our efforts to be better people, our beliefe in God, his mercy, the assistance of Mary, St.michael, the angels and saints and our willingness to seek mercy etc

after this we will be brought to purgatory for final cleansing before heaven is to be attained, or plunged into hell due to our sins etc,,, very few go to heaven directly as far as i can figure out

anyway thats my 2 cents worth

ps - oh and as i have said a few times, all of this will come to all over us over 7 years of age very soon in the coming heavenly warning.. its the greatest gift of mercy since the resurection for sure

johnners2981

Baggio1 wrote: »

i believe,
when we die we are brought to the judgement seat of christ to give an account of our earthly lives.... and at the end of this we will discover our destiny according to our sins, our efforts to be better people, our beliefe in God, his mercy, the assistance of Mary, St.michael, the angels and saints and our willingness to seek mercy etc

after this we will be brought to purgatory for final cleansing before heaven is to be attained, or plunged into hell due to our sins etc,,, very few go to heaven directly as far as i can figure out

anyway thats my 2 cents worth

ps - oh and as i have said a few times, all of this will come to all over us over 7 years of age very soon in the coming heavenly warning.. its the greatest gift of mercy since the resurection for sure

Well amn't I lucky none of that will happen to me. Still no one has said what they are going to do in heaven for eternity

fedor.2.

johnners2981 wrote: »

Well amn't I lucky none of that will happen to me. Still no one has said what they are going to do in heaven for eternity

Its cause they dont know bud, its best not to ask them these types of question, they start to think and it freaks them out

irishh_bob

johnners2981 wrote: »

I'd like to know what you think happens to you when you die? Could you explain what you think you'll do for eternity?

I don't believe in god but I live a good life so would I be turned away if there is an afterlife or accepted even though I don't believe.

Do you believe in people going to hell and spending eternity being burned or is that just a scare tactic from the church?

I'm just curious to know what you believe happens, I believe I die and thats it, so I enjoy my life while I can.

the best i can come up with is that you return to the state you were in before you were born

The Quadratic Equation

This life is a short test for the next which is eternal.
Hell is the self imposed eternal seperation from God.
It's said the gates of hell are bolted from the inside.

We know very little about the next life, but for me, this illustration comes close to perhaps giving us a tiny glimpse.

irishh_bob

johnners2981 wrote: »

Thats what I believe too. When I was a kid I was so scared of going to hell, I don't think its right teaching kids religion, they'll believe anything you tell them.

But I'd like to know what people who believe in god think happens when they die, what do you do for eternity? Do you still have to eat? Can you listen to music, go to a concert? Play some football? I don't see there being a lot to do tbh

teaching kids about religon is a form of child abuse if you ask me

The Quadratic Equation

irishh_bob wrote: »

teaching kids about religon is a form of child abuse if you ask me

irishh_bob wrote: »

teaching kids about atheism is a form of child abuse if you ask me

Would anyone like a game of spot the difference ?

Fanny Cradock

johnners2981 wrote: »

Well amn't I lucky none of that will happen to me. Still no one has said what they are going to do in heaven for eternity

Well, one would have to first believe that you are to stay in heaven for eternity to answer that. Many Christians - though sadly not enough - believe that heaven is only part of the story. As Tom Wright says, Christianity is more interested in life after life after death.

irishh_bob

The Quadratic Equation wrote: »

Would anyone like a game of spot the difference ?

teaching kids about religon involves telling them they will sit in a stove for eternity if they dont do A,B +C

teaching them about athiesm merley involves not telling them the above

i give you your difference

The Quadratic Equation

irishh_bob wrote: »

teaching kids about religon involves telling them they will sit in a stove for eternity if they dont do A,B +C

teaching them about athiesm merley involves not telling them the above

i give you your difference

No you merely give us yet another strawman inaccuracy.

Roger Hassenforder

Baggio1 wrote: »

i believe,
when we die we are brought to the judgement seat of christ to give an account of our earthly lives.... and at the end of this we will discover our destiny according to our sins, our efforts to be better people, our beliefe in God, his mercy, the assistance of Mary, St.michael, the angels and saints and our willingness to seek mercy etc

after this we will be brought to purgatory for final cleansing before heaven is to be attained, or plunged into hell due to our sins etc,,, very few go to heaven directly as far as i can figure out

anyway thats my 2 cents worth

ps - oh and as i have said a few times, all of this will come to all over us over 7 years of age very soon in the coming heavenly warning.. its the greatest gift of mercy since the resurection for sure

any idea when this is happening?
the tax is up on my car, im wondering should i bother taxing it..

cybercellesta

The Quadratic Equation wrote: »

This life is a short test for the next which is eternal.
Hell is the self imposed eternal seperation from God.
It's said the gates of hell are bolted from the inside.

We know very little about the next life, but for me, this illustration comes close to perhaps giving us a tiny glimpse.

Love that picture!

Baggio1

Roger Hassenforder

when? i dnno but am convinced is in next few months.. BUT if not as i said before - ill pop open the champers say party on!! and never bother believeong prophecies again... theres no point believing when NOTHING happens..... so tax the car? um yahh do a 6 monther hahhaha

ps - on what will we do in eternity?... i must be honest and say - ok i DONT want to be in hell for all time with torture,suffering,etc enough in this world for hecks sake¬! but heaven doesnt sound to much fun walkin round all day everyyyy day singing psalms...gghh i aint lookin forward to it i must admit.......

Roger Hassenforder

will you be dissapointed if nothing happens?

Baggio1

sort of yeahhh coz then ya have to say well... why is there sooo much prophecizing these daays about something just aint hapening....

on the other hand - no... i can [party on again , rock with the bands, pull chicks etc etc and see what happens later in life!

but dont let that stop ya taxin the car amigo hahhaha

Robert ninja

The Quadratic Equation wrote: »

No you merely give us yet another strawman inaccuracy.

No acutally he pretty much gave you the difference. Teaching a kid about religion is different that indoctrinating them with it, by the way. As is teaching/indoctrinating them about atheism.

For example, indoctrinating a kid with atheism would mean to constantly tell and reinforce the idea that there is no deity and anything beyond that, for example, telling them to disrespect religion or religious people, would have nothing to do with atheism. Where as indoctrinating with religion would usually have that as a vital part of the religion, condemning other religions and non believers is the bread and butter of most monotheistic religions you find in our culture.

So indoctrinating with atheism is bad, but not child abuse uness one adds their own brand of crazy **** that has nothing to do with atheism... where as indoctrination to religion is innately child abuse.

StudentDad

Robert ninja wrote: »

The Quadratic Equation wrote: »

No you merely give us yet another strawman inaccuracy.

No acutally he pretty much gave you the difference. Teaching a kid about religion is different that indoctrinating them with it, by the way. As is teaching/indoctrinating them about atheism.

For example, indoctrinating a kid with atheism would mean to constantly tell and reinforce the idea that there is no deity and anything beyond that, for example, telling them to disrespect religion or religious people, would have nothing to do with atheism. Where as indoctrinating with religion would usually have that as a vital part of the religion, condemning other religions and non believers is the bread and butter of most monotheistic religions you find in our culture.

So indoctrinating with atheism is bad, but not child abuse uness one adds their own brand of crazy **** that has nothing to do with atheism... where as indoctrination to religion is innately child abuse.

I've never understood the fascination with death or what if anything that happens after you go into the ground or get cremated etc.

If you believe in an omnipotent being surely he isn't some contrary auld git who at the end of the world will sift through people like some hideous science project.

Personally I live, try to be as good a person as I can and not let religion interfere too much.

SD

The Quadratic Equation

Robert ninja wrote: »

indoctrination to religion is innately child abuse.

everyday taxi

johnners2981 wrote: »

Well amn't I lucky none of that will happen to me. Still no one has said what they are going to do in heaven for eternity

I'll have a stab for you. This would be my take on it. Firstly, i believe in God and most of the Jesus story too. However, i have given this lots of thought along my life. Most irish are brought up (years ago at least), that God existed and he was considered a male figure etc (almost man-like). First, we need to get rid of that thought, and imagine him/it as a spirit/lifeforce (almost non visible). I believe God/creator, is a kind of pure, good, moral, entity-type thing, that created all, and through a sort of karmic ending has the power to put you in a happy/unhappy spiritual eternity based on your lifes work. I think the message of Jesus fits in with redemption (never too late to mend your ways). People can live crappy lives for years, then "see the light" (religious or not) so to speak and become good people.

PDN

Baggio1 wrote: »

when? i dnno but am convinced is in next few months.. BUT if not as i said before - ill pop open the champers say party on!! and never bother believeong prophecies again...

That is good news, both for you and this forum.

copeyhagen

you die, your thrown in the ground (if burried) and you become worm food.

nothing less, nothing more..

eternal afterlife... pffffft you may aswell believe theres 72 virgins waiting for you....

Roger Hassenforder

everyday taxi wrote: »

I'll have a stab for you. This would be my take on it. Firstly, i believe in God and most of the Jesus story too. However, i have given this lots of thought along my life. Most irish are brought up (years ago at least), that God existed and he was considered a male figure etc (almost man-like). First, we need to get rid of that thought, and imagine him/it as a spirit/lifeforce (almost non visible). I believe God/creator, is a kind of pure, good, moral, entity-type thing, that created all, and through a sort of karmic ending has the power to put you in a happy/unhappy spiritual eternity based on your lifes work. I think the message of Jesus fits in with redemption (never too late to mend your ways). People can live crappy lives for years, then "see the light" (religious or not) so to speak and become good people.

break out the sandals and guitars, and start clapping folks, i feel like a sing song!:D

Out of curiosity, would you consider your self a Catholic? no offence taken if you tell me pish off. Always interesting to see the 'evolution' of God from the image depicted in the OT to this image.

everyday taxi

Roger Hassenforder wrote: »

break out the sandals and guitars, and start clapping folks, i feel like a sing song!:D

Out of curiosity, would you consider your self a Catholic? no offence taken if you tell me pish off. Always interesting to see the 'evolution' of God from the image depicted in the OT to this image.

Wouldnt consider myself catholic. I believe there is some sort of God/higher power/spirit/entity/realm beyond this world. I wont tell you to piss off, what i will say, is i think only an ignorant person could conclude there is not something beyond death, a meaning to life. I believe lots of people who have no beliefs about an afterlife etc are just so terrified its almost the "classical defence" strategy.
As i always say, grace and humility are wonderful levellers. You may say with absolute belief...you do not believe in any God (many will). It is amazing to see how many staunch non-believers who develope an illness like cancer (for example), who suddenly see the light. Would you agree?

Robert ninja

@ everyday taxi

Why is it arrogant to make the conclusion that there is no afterlife but not arrogant to conclude there is an afterlife? You give absolutely no reason as to why... other than the former is against your belief... therefore it's arrogant?

It's also funny you should think that it's people who think there is NO afterlife that are terrified when it's pretty obvious that those who fear their own mortality are drawn more to believe in the afterlife to make themselves feel better. As for your reference to people suddenly believing there's an afterlife when they're close to their death... why does this give the arguement of an afterlife any weight?

Is a person that's nearly dead have more insight to what happens after they're dead than a person who's not? I would think not, since they're possibly even more fearful of death since they're so close to it and either suddenly beleive to comfort their final moments. It's no secret that fear can cause people to believe an do crazy things.

dead one

Robert ninja wrote: »

@ everyday taxi

Why is it arrogant to make the conclusion that there is no afterlife but not arrogant to conclude there is an afterlife? You give absolutely no reason as to why... other than the former is against your belief... therefore it's arrogant?

everyday taxi is running out of fares in these modern days --- Lack of passengers made her ignorant to accept harsh truth.....

ronan45

I dont think anything happens, NOw if I was an all powerful being I would of thought up something a little more imaginative than human beings to keep me occupied for thousands of years. I would spice it up a bit! Make the occasional appearance, Send a few aliens down to see the reaction. In all this gods infinite wisdom the best he could come up with are Humans ! Bravo !

The Quadratic Equation

Hell will be listening to athiests for all eternity moaning about how they still have a problem with God.

Roger Hassenforder

everyday taxi wrote: »

Wouldnt consider myself catholic. I believe there is some sort of God/higher power/spirit/entity/realm beyond this world. I wont tell you to piss off, what i will say, is i think only an ignorant person could conclude there is not something beyond death, a meaning to life. I believe lots of people who have no beliefs about an afterlife etc are just so terrified its almost the "classical defence" strategy.
As i always say, grace and humility are wonderful levellers. You may say with absolute belief...you do not believe in any God (many will). It is amazing to see how many staunch non-believers who develope an illness like cancer (for example), who suddenly see the light. Would you agree?

Aye, grace and humility should be mandatory, as should the absence of a "better than thou" attitude. (I must be fairly ignorant in your opinion so, but you are entiltled to your opinion, we wont fall out, but no need to insult people).
It's amazing how many believers suddenly develop a trust in medicine when disgnosed with cancer and are willing to put their trust in techniques that wouldnt exactly have been developed by faith and prayer!

PDN

Roger Hassenforder wrote: »

It's amazing how many believers suddenly develop a trust in medicine when disgnosed with cancer and are willing to put their trust in techniques that wouldnt exactly have been developed by faith and prayer!

Roger, help me find an excuse not to ban for you being a troll.

So how many believers do you know who don't have any trust in medicine prior to being diagnosed with cancer, but develop it after?

Roger Hassenforder

so i take it you dont have a problem with the first part of my post, as you accuse me of trolling with my second. So insulting behaviour is tolerated in this forum. Ban me if you will from this forum, I'll not try and justify myself.

to answer your question,two. One of them subsequently died.
as will the other. come to think of it, as will I. hopefully not soon though.

irishh_bob

everyday taxi wrote: »

Wouldnt consider myself catholic. I believe there is some sort of God/higher power/spirit/entity/realm beyond this world. I wont tell you to piss off, what i will say, is i think only an ignorant person could conclude there is not something beyond death, a meaning to life. I believe lots of people who have no beliefs about an afterlife etc are just so terrified its almost the "classical defence" strategy.
As i always say, grace and humility are wonderful levellers. You may say with absolute belief...you do not believe in any God (many will). It is amazing to see how many staunch non-believers who develope an illness like cancer (for example), who suddenly see the light. Would you agree?

i think that its more humble to believe thier is nothing when you die , we are insignificant when you consider the scale of the universe

irishh_bob

The Quadratic Equation wrote: »

Hell will be listening to athiests for all eternity moaning about how they still have a problem with God.

on a scale of 1 - 10 , how smug does that post make you feel ?

Roger Hassenforder

10 being the smugest

everyday taxi

Robert ninja wrote: »

@ everyday taxi

Why is it arrogant to make the conclusion that there is no afterlife but not arrogant to conclude there is an afterlife? You give absolutely no reason as to why... other than the former is against your belief... therefore it's arrogant?

It's also funny you should think that it's people who think there is NO afterlife that are terrified when it's pretty obvious that those who fear their own mortality are drawn more to believe in the afterlife to make themselves feel better. As for your reference to people suddenly believing there's an afterlife when they're close to their death... why does this give the arguement of an afterlife any weight?

Is a person that's nearly dead have more insight to what happens after they're dead than a person who's not? I would think not, since they're possibly even more fearful of death since they're so close to it and either suddenly beleive to comfort their final moments. It's no secret that fear can cause people to believe an do crazy things.

Ahhh, where to begin?? Firstly, get your points correct.... i said ignorant and not arrogant. I only think its "ignorant" to dismiss it out of sight, as not a possibility. You come across as if your certain, i on the other hand simply say its my belief. Regarding your view on who fears death the most, i think its non-believers. Why? Rationally when you fear something you try avoid it, as you cant avoid death, you avoid thoughts of it pending and if anything follows it. People try simplify it, no god you die, worm food, now thats that, no more need to dwell on it.
Thirdly, i didnt say approaching death gave any weight to an afterlife, however as much as it may upset your beliefs, people who know they are going to die, do turn to God, its a fact.
Lastly the fear you talk of, ive already touched on....but i'll add to that too. Me and you are no different in terms of what we think we know. I dont "know" that there is a God, and you dont "know" there aint. I think someone in your shoes displays the bigger fear. Just like commitment in a relationship, your afraid you'll be gilted at the alter. All that believing for nothing! You couldnt bare the thought. Everyone fears death, the difference with me and you is i dont mind believing in something for the duration of my life and finding out there's nothing beyond, you it would appear do. Now thats fear.

everyday taxi

Roger Hassenforder wrote: »

Aye, grace and humility should be mandatory, as should the absence of a "better than thou" attitude. (I must be fairly ignorant in your opinion so, but you are entiltled to your opinion, we wont fall out, but no need to insult people).
It's amazing how many believers suddenly develop a trust in medicine when disgnosed with cancer and are willing to put their trust in techniques that wouldnt exactly have been developed by faith and prayer!

Now your just been silly. When diagnosed with cancer, vast majority of first reactions is............... " IM GOIN TA DIEEEEEEEEEEE ". Not ...... " ah no worries, the wonders of science will save me". Its more likely...... " PLEASE "GOD".. MAKE THIS TREATMENT WORK!!"

The Quadratic Equation

irishh_bob wrote: »

on a scale of 1 - 10 , how smug does that post make you feel ?

Roger Hassenforder wrote: »

10 being the smugest

I don't know ;

What score would you ladies find most annoying ?

Roger Hassenforder

everyday taxi wrote: »

Ahhh, where to begin?? Firstly, get your points correct.... i said ignorant and not arrogant. I only think its "ignorant" to dismiss it out of sight, as not a possibility. You come across as if your certain, i on the other hand simply say its my belief. Regarding your view on who fears death the most, i think its non-believers. Why? Rationally when you fear something you try avoid it, as you cant avoid death, you avoid thoughts of it pending and if anything follows it. People try simplify it, no god you die, worm food, now thats that, no more need to dwell on it.
Thirdly, i didnt say approaching death gave any weight to an afterlife, however as much as it may upset your beliefs, people who know they are going to die, do turn to God, its a fact.
Lastly the fear you talk of, ive already touched on....but i'll add to that too. Me and you are no different in terms of what we think we know. I dont "know" that there is a God, and you dont "know" there aint. I think someone in your shoes displays the bigger fear. Just like commitment in a relationship, your afraid you'll be gilted at the alter. All that believing for nothing! You couldnt bare the thought. Everyone fears death, the difference with me and you is i dont mind believing in something for the duration of my life and finding out there's nothing beyond, you it would appear do. Now thats fear.

interesting Rafa Benitez style post.
Facts and all.

"everyone fears death"? Why fear something you cant avoid? Makes more sense to accept it as inevitable, and enjoy what you have. Respect death, but dont fear it.
Also, the more you know, the more you realise you dont know, and just becaue you dont know, you dont fill in the gaps with superstitions and fanciful notions about how special you are.

Roger Hassenforder

everyday taxi wrote: »

Now your just been silly. When diagnosed with cancer, vast majority of first reactions is............... " IM GOIN TA DIEEEEEEEEEEE ". Not ...... " ah no worries, the wonders of science will save me". Its more likely...... " PLEASE "GOD".. MAKE THIS TREATMENT WORK!!"

we'll just have to differ here and park it, I'd be of the "oh bugger, pancreatic cancer, 6 months eh? How will it be at the end, Doc?" not " Oh Sweet Holy God, why me?", spending the remaining few months praying for a miracle. And then leaving a potion/entire estate to the local curate to say masses for the repose of my tortured soul.

Fanny Cradock

irishh_bob wrote: »

i think that its more humble to believe thier is nothing when you die , we are insignificant when you consider the scale of the universe

Well, that is debatable. It is certainly true that assuredness in a particular belief (and I'm going to include atheism in with this for the hell of it) can lead to arrogance. But perhaps you could explain why the belief in a God or Gods equates to arrogance, especially considering that your statement is addressed to the bulk of humanity past, present and future?

As I've said before, I think that there are people out there who actually think that their world view is correct simply because its consequences are bleak for humanity.

Roger Hassenforder wrote: »

we'll just have to differ here and park it, I'd be of the "oh bugger, pancreatic cancer, 6 months eh? How will it be at the end, Doc?" not " Oh Sweet Holy God, why me?", spending the remaining few months praying for a miracle. And then leaving a potion/entire estate to the local curate to say masses for the repose of my tortured soul.

Yes, because there can only possibly be those two reactions.

keithm1

I seriously don't get how so many people believe in this rubbish in this day and age

Fanny Cradock

keithm1 wrote: »

I seriously don't get how so many people believe in this rubbish in this day and age

Thanks for that.