Steve Jobs and the futility of life without God.

JimiTime · 06-10-2011 1:14am #1

His death just got my thoughts meandering. How futile, how vain life without God is. Being finite, is such a nothing. You can be what the world calls a success, and be nothing real. Dead at 56. 'He's got it all', No he doesn't. Without his life he has nothing. 'But look at his legacy'. His legacy is meaningless, as he is dead. In the words of Solomon, 'Its all vanity'. Without God, ultimately, you are nothing!

EDIT: Just for those who are going on about me judging etc, I have no idea what Steve Jobs thought, believed etc. It was a ponderous moment, much like King Solomons pondering on the vanity of life without God. Its nothing specific to Steve Jobs. His unfortunate death, just got me pondering on the ultimate futility of being a success in this world.

Unfortunately I didn't think of all the preconceptions people have when I wrote this ponderous moment....

natsuko · 06-10-2011 1:23am

How does this make any sense to you? His legacy isnt meaningless, everyones legacy is meaningful in some way. And are you trying to say he died young because he didnt have god in his life? What about the millions of believers who die young, whats the reason they die?

Zombrex · 06-10-2011 1:30am

JimiTime wrote: »

His death just got my thoughts meandering. How futile, how vain life without God is. Being finite, is such a nothing. You can be what the world calls a success, and be nothing real. Dead at 56. 'He's got it all', No he doesn't. Without his life he has nothing. 'But look at his legacy'. His legacy is meaningless, as he is dead. In the words of Solomon, 'Its all vanity'. Without God, ultimately, you are nothing!

I appreciate that this is a Christianity thread, so it is not surprising you would frame it like that, but life without God only becomes nothing if you decide that without God there is nothing of value or importance. That is a personal decision, not some sort of objective truth.

A lot of people, including myself, would disagree. Even if I died and when to heaven to spent the rest of eternity in some sort of blissful state of being, the significant part of my life would be what I did here on Earth. That would just be the after party.

Heaven, at least as described by your religion, is like an old folks home that never ends. You might be eternally happy in it, but you can't really say you achieve anything there.

Everything of importance, or significant, you have already done, here on Earth.

longshanks · 06-10-2011 1:32am

The written history of Steve Jobs is factual.....

mikom · 06-10-2011 1:35am

JimiTime wrote: »

'He's got it all', No he doesn't. Without his life he has nothing. 'But look at his legacy'. His legacy is meaningless, as he is dead.

If your legacy is a child....... is that meaningless?
And grandchildren........ are those meaningless?

johnners2981 · 06-10-2011 1:37am

JimiTime wrote: »

His death just got my thoughts meandering. How futile, how vain life without God is. Being finite, is such a nothing. You can be what the world calls a success, and be nothing real. Dead at 56. 'He's got it all', No he doesn't. Without his life he has nothing. 'But look at his legacy'. His legacy is meaningless, as he is dead. In the words of Solomon, 'Its all vanity'. Without God, ultimately, you are nothing!

So you're saying Steve Jobs life was more futile than yours because you believe in God? What have you achieved compared to Steve Jobs?

His legacy is meaningless? Are millions of people not using his products?

Enjoying life isn't vain. You mustn't enjoy yours otherwise you wouldn't be wishing it away for this afterlife that you have no proof of. Please explain if you can in your own words what happens in this magical afterlife?

Plautus · 06-10-2011 1:41am

JimiTime wrote: »

His death just got my thoughts meandering. How futile, how vain life without God is. Being finite, is such a nothing. You can be what the world calls a success, and be nothing real. Dead at 56. 'He's got it all', No he doesn't. Without his life he has nothing. 'But look at his legacy'. His legacy is meaningless, as he is dead. In the words of Solomon, 'Its all vanity'. Without God, ultimately, you are nothing!

The man's corpse isn't cold for 24 hours and you have to take the opportunity to question his personal faith and allege he led a meaningless life because he did not confess your religion, but rather Buddhism.

Jesus would be real proud of that. Or do you think your Lord and Saviour might have been more respectful of the recently deceased?

Mr Trade In · 06-10-2011 1:43am

VERY condescending here,talk about vanity you expect god to save you,let you into Paradise,if you have such a poor opinion of your fellow man, especially one who has suffered for so long and has achieved so much despite this. I don't think you will be seeing any pearly gates.

mikom · 06-10-2011 1:45am

What is it with religions and apples.
First the garden of Eden, and now this thread.....

Plautus · 06-10-2011 1:46am

Mr Trade In wrote: »

VERY condescending here,talk about vanity you expect god to save you,let you into Paradise,if you have such a poor opinion of your fellow man, especially one who has suffered for so long and has achieved so much despite this. I don't think you will be seeing any pearly gates.

I wouldn't even call it condescending. It's worse than that. It's some kind of triumphalism that Jobs has died, but that when Jimi does (as we all do) he'll have the Christian God on his side.

Rick Deckard · 06-10-2011 1:51am

JimiTime wrote: »

His death just got my thoughts meandering. How futile, how vain life without God is. Being finite, is such a nothing. You can be what the world calls a success, and be nothing real. Dead at 56. 'He's got it all', No he doesn't. Without his life he has nothing. 'But look at his legacy'. His legacy is meaningless, as he is dead. In the words of Solomon, 'Its all vanity'. Without God, ultimately, you are nothing!

What would your god think of you with nothing better to do at 2 in the morning, than to have a go at the recently deceased? Devil does indeed find work for idle minds.. Now off to mass with you to pray for forgivness.

montreal2011 · 06-10-2011 1:51am

JimiTime wrote: »

His death just got my thoughts meandering. How futile, how vain life without God is. Being finite, is such a nothing. You can be what the world calls a success, and be nothing real. Dead at 56. 'He's got it all', No he doesn't. Without his life he has nothing. 'But look at his legacy'. His legacy is meaningless, as he is dead. In the words of Solomon, 'Its all vanity'. Without God, ultimately, you are nothing!

[FONT=Palatino, Times New Roman, Georgia, Times, serif][FONT=arial,helvetica][SIZE=-2][FONT=Palatino, Times New Roman, Georgia, Times, serif]Matt. 7:1 "Do not judge, or you too will be judged."[/FONT][/FONT][/SIZE][/FONT]

iMax · 06-10-2011 1:59am

Nobody ever died in a war about Apple

efb · 06-10-2011 2:02am

You couldn't wait to put the jack book in OP.

Christianity has so many wonderful traits and you portray the worst kind.

His legacy will long outlive yours or mine.

Steve Jobs, RIP.

The Internet Explorer · 06-10-2011 2:09am

Death is natural. Death is fine. Death is unfortunate but entirely normal. We've been unconscious for billions of years before birth and will do so again after death. In true peace. Unfortunate but inevitable. Live life. Rest in Peace.

06-10-2011 2:10am

So if life without god is finite, this implies that life with is infinite.
Then if you exist infinitely after your death then your actual life (the one that you can see) is a negligible fraction of your entire existence.
80 odd years vs Infinite number of years.

So how, if you believe that your mortal life is barely noticeable compared to the rest of your existence, how does this make it more important?

Pompey Magnus · 06-10-2011 2:17am

JimiTime wrote: »

Without God, ultimately, you are nothing!

That isn't true though, is it? According to your faith he hasn't just vanished from existence, he's down burning with the rest of the Godless, isn't he..or does that just happen after judgement day? So would it not be more Christian of you to say he is now a damned soul rather than "nothing"?

The Internet Explorer · 06-10-2011 2:22am

There's nothing wrong with being nothing. Nothing is everything.

BlastedGlute · 06-10-2011 2:26am

Did some app or gadget on his wonderful invention finds itself the sole reason the somebodies life was saved? I recall reading a story about a journalist who was shot at in the middle east but his iPod caught the bullet. His existence alone in that one instance could have ultimately saved a persons life. That's one microscopic fragmented story from a man who's vision for his company has affected your life and you don't even know it. This conversation you started and the reply you provoke might make you think and then live differently. His life could help you to lead a better one.

Grow up.

CorsetRibbons · 06-10-2011 6:32am

JimiTime wrote: »

His death just got my thoughts meandering. How futile, how vain life without God is. Being finite, is such a nothing. You can be what the world calls a success, and be nothing real. Dead at 56. 'He's got it all', No he doesn't. Without his life he has nothing. 'But look at his legacy'. His legacy is meaningless, as he is dead. In the words of Solomon, 'Its all vanity'. Without God, ultimately, you are nothing!

You are disgusting... How can you write something like this about someone who has just died? If anything, with your mentality, you are nothing.

super_furry · 06-10-2011 6:51am

You seem pretty triumphant and satisfied that, according to your beliefs, the man is being tortured forever in hell.

antiskeptic · 06-10-2011 7:13am

JimiTime wrote: »

His death just got my thoughts meandering. How futile, how vain life without God is. Being finite, is such a nothing. You can be what the world calls a success, and be nothing real. Dead at 56. 'He's got it all', No he doesn't. Without his life he has nothing. 'But look at his legacy'. His legacy is meaningless, as he is dead. In the words of Solomon, 'Its all vanity'. Without God, ultimately, you are nothing!

I get what you mean Jimi. I had that same sense this morning when I looked a photo of him holding up the iphone4 at it's launch. "There it is" it almost says "the current highpoint of my life"

A phone.

I can understand the objections - afterall he did transform the way the world works. But compared to what the actual meaning of life is about (from yours and my) it pales into insignificance. The objections need take account of that context.

Success, visionary, innovator. Fine words that won't mean a darn thing to Steve now. For better or worse.

WhatNowForUs? · 06-10-2011 7:38am

JimiTime wrote: »

His death just got my thoughts meandering. How futile, how vain life without God is. Being finite, is such a nothing. You can be what the world calls a success, and be nothing real. Dead at 56. 'He's got it all', No he doesn't. Without his life he has nothing. 'But look at his legacy'. His legacy is meaningless, as he is dead. In the words of Solomon, 'Its all vanity'. Without God, ultimately, you are nothing!

Jesus's legacy is meaningless as hes also dead.

Duke Leonal Felmet · 06-10-2011 7:43am

I think something that has infinite supply, has less value than the finite.

dead one · 06-10-2011 7:54am

WhatNowForUs? wrote: »

Jesus's legacy is meaningless as hes also dead.

Jesus's legacy is full of meaning, but they are following someone else's legacy

interpretation of legacy

homer911 · 06-10-2011 7:56am

Rich, Poor, Famous, Infamous or unknown, loved or hated, it all counts for nothing when we die - what matters is our relationship with Jesus Christ

homer911 · 06-10-2011 7:57am

WhatNowForUs? wrote: »

Jesus's legacy is meaningless as hes also dead.

I cant see Steve Jobs coming back to life..

dead one · 06-10-2011 8:00am

homer911 wrote: »

I cant see Steve Jobs coming back to life..

Is it son's legacy or father's legacy?

furiousox · 06-10-2011 8:12am

homer911 wrote: »

I cant see Steve Jobs coming back to life..

There's no sign of jesus either.
Still....he'll be along anyday day now eh?

Rick Deckard · 06-10-2011 8:16am

Do ye really want to hang around for eternity with a god who wouldn't let a decent hard working man into his club? I wouldn't.

Here's a legacy for you..

Bono; in a letter to the NYTimes

"As a founder of RED, I'd like to point out that Apple's contribution to our fight against AIDS in Africa has been invaluable. Through the sale of (RED) products, Apple has been RED's largest contributor to the Global Fund to Fight AIDS, Tuberculosis and Malaria - giving tens of millions of dollars that have transformed the lives of more than two million Africans through H.I.V. testing, treatment and counseling...."

I'd rather spend my time at something like this than chanting, eating body and blood, watching pensioners giving their last few pennies to one of the wealthiest organisations on the planet...

super_furry · 06-10-2011 8:21am

Yeah, but those Africans saved from HIV will still burn in hell if they use condoms.

Zombrex · 06-10-2011 8:22am

montreal2011 wrote: »

[FONT=Palatino, Times New Roman, Georgia, Times, serif][FONT=arial,helvetica][SIZE=-2][FONT=Palatino, Times New Roman, Georgia, Times, serif]Matt. 7:1 "Do not judge, or you too will be judged."[/FONT][/FONT][/SIZE][/FONT]

In fairness I don't think he is judging Jobs' life as meaningless in the way you are suggesting, he is saying that ultimately in the grand scheme of things Earthly life in general means very little, at least to Jimi. Not something specific to Jobs.

Robert ninja · 06-10-2011 8:24am

"No one wants to die. Even people who want to go to heaven don't want to die to get there. And yet death is the destination we all share. No one has ever escaped it. And that is as it should be, because death is very likely the single best invention of life. It is life's change agent. It clears out the old to make way for the new. Right now the new is you, but someday not too long from now, you will gradually become the old and be cleared away. Sorry to be so dramatic, but it is quite true.Your time is limited, so don't waste it living someone else's life. Don't be trapped by dogma which is living with the results of other people's thinking. Don't let the noise of others' opinions drown out your own inner voice. And most important,have the courage to follow your heart and intuition.They somehow already know what you truly want to become. Everything else is secondary." - Steve Jobs.

TL : DR - Steve Jobs>Jesus

antiskeptic · 06-10-2011 8:39am

Rick Deckard wrote: »

Bono; in a letter to the NYTimes

You mean Bono the Christian?

I'd rather spend my time at something like this than chanting, eating body and blood, watching pensioners giving their last few pennies to one of the wealthiest organisations on the planet...

So would Bono. So would I.

torrentum · 06-10-2011 8:39am

"much of the world learned of his passing on a device he invented." - sky news.

RIP Steve. A true legend. Nobody can judge Gods infinate mercy. I prayed for Steve when I read of his passing.
He was an amazing man. Ill miss his genius and unique personality at product launches

Rick Deckard · 06-10-2011 8:41am

antiskeptic wrote: »

You mean Bono the Christian?

Yes, one and the same.

BrookieD · 06-10-2011 8:51am

JimiTime wrote: »

His death just got my thoughts meandering. How futile, how vain life without God is. Being finite, is such a nothing. You can be what the world calls a success, and be nothing real. Dead at 56. 'He's got it all', No he doesn't. Without his life he has nothing. 'But look at his legacy'. His legacy is meaningless, as he is dead. In the words of Solomon, 'Its all vanity'. Without God, ultimately, you are nothing!

I am sorry but utter tripe..........

GOD is not in my life, MY life is not futile and very very far from it.

Duke Leonal Felmet · 06-10-2011 9:15am

'His legacy is meaningless', the people read on their iPhones and Macs.

JimiTime · 06-10-2011 9:16am

Just for those who are going on about me judging etc, I have no idea what Steve Jobs thought, believed etc. As Zombrex copped, it was a ponderous moment, much like King Solomons pondering on the vanity of life without God. Its nothing specific to Steve Jobs. His unfortunate death, just got me pondering on the ultimate futility of being a success in this world.
Way to get carried away with all your preconceptions though guys.....

Rick Deckard · 06-10-2011 9:19am

BlastedGlute wrote: »

Did some app or gadget on his wonderful invention finds itself the sole reason the somebodies life was saved?

http://mashable.com/2010/01/20/haiti-iphone-survivor/

http://ismashphone.com/2010/12/true-stories-of-iphone-apps-that-saved-a-life.html

Rick Deckard · 06-10-2011 9:22am

JimiTime wrote: »

Dead at 56. 'He's got it all', No he doesn't. Without his life he has nothing. 'But look at his legacy'. His legacy is meaningless, as he is dead.

JimiTime wrote: »

Just for those who are going on about me judging etc, Its nothing specific to Steve Jobs.

Thats some turn around!!!!

JimiTime · 06-10-2011 9:26am

Rick Deckard wrote: »

Thats some turn around!!!!

No turn around. All his (and everyones) worldly successes are ultimately in vain. But keep persisting with your preconceptions if you wish. I can only clarify, I can't do anything if people can't accept that they jumped the gun.

Rick Deckard · 06-10-2011 9:30am

JimiTime wrote: »

But keep persisting with your preconceptions if you wish. I can't do anything if people can't accept that they jumped the gun.

There is no preconception. I don't know you, or have had any history with you. The reaction (from me anyway) is purely from your first post. A postconceptulisation if you will pardon the pun.

Ickle Magoo · 06-10-2011 9:35am

Just out of interest Jimi, how does theism give a dead persons legacy any more meaning?

toxicity234 · 06-10-2011 9:44am

JimiTime wrote: »

No turn around. All his (and everyones) worldly successes are ultimately in vain. But keep persisting with your preconceptions if you wish. I can only clarify, I can't do anything if people can't accept that they jumped the gun.

With that Logic them why not stop eating and wait to starve to dead say you doing it to help your beloved god and you can go to your Heaven,

That would leave the rest of us alone so we don't have to listen to your rubbish or watch your judgement on other people.

By the way a very wise man once said:
"Remove the BEAM from your OWN eye before telling another about their splinter"

JimiTime · 06-10-2011 9:52am

Ickle Magoo wrote: »

Just out of interest Jimi, how does theism give a dead persons legacy any more meaning?

It doesn't. What I've been pondering, (and its something I've always felt, but the unfortunate death of such a successful man, just brought it to the fore in my mind) is the combination of king Solomons and Jesus' wisdoms about, in relation to Solomon, the ultimate futility of striving for things in this world, and in relation to Jesus, his words about building treasures in heaven rather than those of this world which will ultimately pass away. It struck a chord with me, because ultimately, I strive more for the things of this world, when I should be striving for that which is meaningful in the grand scale of existence.

Rick Deckard · 06-10-2011 9:55am

JimiTime wrote: »

It doesn't. What I've been pondering, (and its something I've always felt, but the unfortunate death of such a successful man, just brought it to the fore in my mind) is the combination of king Solomons and Jesus' wisdoms about, in relation to Solomon, the ultimate futility of striving for things in this world, and in relation to Jesus, his words about building treasures in heaven rather than those of this world which will ultimately pass away. It struck a chord with me, because ultimately, I strive more for the things of this world, when I should be striving for that which is meaningful in the grand scale of existence.

You should have said that in the first instance so. No one would begrudge you that.

Good day.

Duke Leonal Felmet · 06-10-2011 9:56am

JimiTime wrote: »

Ickle Magoo wrote: »

Just out of interest Jimi, how does theism give a dead persons legacy any more meaning?

It doesn't. What I've been pondering, (and its something I've always felt, but the unfortunate death of such a successful man, just brought it to the fore in my mind) is the combination of king Solomons and Jesus' wisdoms about, in relation to Solomon, the ultimate futility of striving for things in this world, and in relation to Jesus, his words about building treasures in heaven rather than those of this world which will ultimately pass away. It struck a chord with me, because ultimately, I strive more for the things of this world, when I should be striving for that which is meaningful in the grand scale of existence.

How is eternal life meaningful? There seems to be no point to that, just living forever. At least with death there is a timeline. A beginning and end.

JimiTime · 06-10-2011 9:56am

toxicity234 wrote: »

With that Logic them why not stop eating and wait to starve to dead say you doing it to help your beloved god and you can go to your Heaven,

That would leave the rest of us alone so we don't have to listen to your rubbish or watch your judgement on other people.

By the way a very wise man once said:
"Remove the BEAM from your OWN eye before telling another about their splinter"

Ok, just so everyone knows. I've seen these posts, I've tried to show you your misconceptions of my position. If you don't want to accept that you are mistaken, then fair enough. I don't mind if you continue to feel the above.

So there we go, I accept that some of you will continue to feel that I've made some big judgement or whatever. Now if you'd just go away now, safe in the knowledge that i know what you think, and the thread can be a bit more of a discussion. Thanks.

JimiTime · 06-10-2011 10:02am

Rick Deckard wrote: »

You should have said that in the first instance so. No one would begrudge you that.

Good day.

Well, it being the Christianity forum, of which I frequent, I thought the context would be understood. I see most of the disparaging comments are from those who would not be familiar with me posting here, or this forum in general.
I didn't take into account that people will come here from the boards.ie home page, which is why I reckon peoples pre-conceptions of 'the religious' had them join some dots and jump the gun a bit. If I was posting this elsewhere on boards, I would certainly have known to be more elaborate in explaining things. A lesson learned.

al28283 · 06-10-2011 10:02am

antiskeptic wrote: »

I get what you mean Jimi. I had that same sense this morning when I looked a photo of him holding up the iphone4 at it's launch. "There it is" it almost says "the current highpoint of my life"

A phone.

Shows how little you know. The iPhone and Apple in general was what he did, it was his job and he did it well and changed the world doing it. But the man has 4 kids. They were the highpoint of his life

Steve Jobs and the futility of life without God.

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