Is a Criminal Record the end of the world....?

Sarah316

Well,I'm just about to receive a criminal conviction for theft...

i was hoping i'd get a chance and be given probation seen as its my first offence etc..

but my solicitor says i haven't a hope in Hell...

so is a criminal record the end of the world? (not literally)

goat2

Sarah316 wrote: »

Well,I'm just about to receive a criminal conviction for theft...

i was hoping i'd get a chance and be given probation seen as its my first offence etc..

but my solicitor says i haven't a hope in Hell...

so is a criminal record the end of the world? (not literally)

i am not a leagle eagle, but i think it depends on what you took, and by what means you took it, was it breaking into someones property and stealing jewellery, hi fi, tv.etc,

Sarah316

it was from my employer,1300 value,and i gave it back.

whydoibother?

For what purposes?

I'm guessing it depends what you do/want to do and where you want to travel to. Those would be the first things I'd think of.

MagicSean

It's not the end of the world. It may cause a little difficulty when applying for visas or jobs.

TheyKnowMyIP

I know at least in the US, an Old criminal conviction isn't a deal breaker for gaining Government Security Clearance: http://www.dod.mil/dodgc/doha/industrial/2010.html

If you can get a Government job with a criminal record, I don't think a private sector job would pose too much of a problem provided a little time has passed. A bump in the road provided you can change your situation.

Sarah316

that was my worry,i mean i want to get a slightly decent job capable enough of getting me a mortgage etc...

Otis Driftwood

It may hinder you applying for jobs going forward unfortunately.Alot of jobs require that you have to answer whether you have any criminal convictions and one for stealing from an employer wouldnt look good(not that any would but you know what I mean).

It does seem a bit harsh that your former employer is pursuing a conviction considering you paid them back.I know one or two people that made the same mistake but their employer agreed not to press charges once the money was paid back in full.

Best of luck with things going forward anyway.

TheyKnowMyIP

Sarah316 wrote: »

that was my worry,i mean i want to get a slightly decent job capable enough of getting me a mortgage etc...

Don't take my word for it, but can you not apply for a pardon or expungement after a probationary period to prove you have been rehabilitated? Maybe ask your solicitor about that. Mind you, he does not sound too knowledgeable from what you have posted. Ask him more questions.

goat2

Sarah316 wrote: »

it was from my employer,1300 value,and i gave it back.

have you gone to your employer or sent someone on your behalf to ask for a reprieve, no amount of money can buy you a good name, if you get convicted, try to get someone your employer would listen to, and keep your nose clean from this point out

Sarah316

I've researched that and i don't think that kind of option exists in ireland,i know in england they have a rehabilitation of offenders act,were crimes can become spent etc....

I'm still going to pursue a non-conviction/probation,but being told theres no chance in hell,it doesn't really look good....


apparently if i had a drink or drug problem it would be more likely,but because i've been doing all the rehabilitation myself i.e getting counseling,theres not much chance of probation......

ridiculous i know...

Sarah316

i dont think that would be an option goat2,and i plan to keep my nose clean regardless,the stress this has caused myself and my family is more then enough reason for me to never commit a crime again..

Sam V Smith

Not the end of the world, but you will have paved yourself a rocky road.

Frankly I hope you suffer. You're a thief. Your careless and immoral actions cost the Irish public millions - that's not to mention the emotional distress caused by your sort.

What did you steal anyway? Mugged an old lady or what?

MagicSean

Sam V Smith wrote: »

Not the end of the world, but you will have paved yourself a rocky road.

Frankly I hope you suffer. You're a thief. Your careless and immoral actions cost the Irish public millions - that's not to mention the emotional distress caused by your sort.

What did you steal anyway? Mugged an old lady or what?

Go back under your bridge

goat2

Sarah316 wrote: »

i dont think that would be an option goat2,and i plan to keep my nose clean regardless,the stress this has caused myself and my family is more then enough reason for me to never commit a crime again..

is the business a privately owned business that you worked for, if so
, hopefully one of your may know a friend of the owner. did you do this thirteen hundred worth over a period of time or all one go, if it was a once off, people may see it as a moment of not thinking properly, while over a long period, that is a different story

Sarah316

it was over 3 days,consecutive days,its not a private owned business,it was a multi-national company,in retail.

TheyKnowMyIP

Sarah316 wrote: »

it was over 3 days,consecutive days,its not a private owned business,it was a multi-national company,in retail.

Don't most jobs ask if you have been convicted in the last 7-10 years? I can't imagine a theft conviction from 20+ years ago for example would cause substantial trouble provided you can prove you haven't been in trouble since.

Any Lawyers willing to pipe up on this? A multi national company is a private company generally. Unless you supply the info yourself, don't CRB checks have limitations when you factor time into the equation? 7-10 years seems appropriate.

Sarah316

i mean i have another 5 years in college anyways,by then it would be a time since it was committed,the type of job id like to have wouldn't necessarily need a criminal check,but having it over my head knowing it could pop up would be another issue i guess....

does anyone know how likely or is there a possibility of Ireland introducing a Rehabilitation of Offenders Act? I.E a system like the UK were convictions become spent etc...

TheyKnowMyIP

Sarah316 wrote: »

does anyone know how likely or is there a possibility of Ireland introducing a Rehabilitation of Offenders Act? I.E a system like the UK were convictions become spent etc...

It's been on the cards for a while now, but I haven't heard much since. I will try to dig something up. It should not cause much trouble in the future, but even if it does, consider being honest or else leave the country. Immigration records might not have your entire criminal past documented following seven years or similar has passed. It's another option to consider. You didn't murder anyone here. Serious crimes would have a bigger impact on following you around etc. Simple theft is not an indicatable offence.

Sarah316

i know i didn't murder anyone,i know deep down I'm not a bad person,i can't deny i was hoping for a chance,so it is a little upsetting,i don't think my life is ruined or anything of the sort,i just know something like this could come back to bite me in the bottom!

TheyKnowMyIP

Sarah316 wrote: »

i know i didn't murder anyone,i know deep down I'm not a bad person,i can't deny i was hoping for a chance,so it is a little upsetting,i don't think my life is ruined or anything of the sort,i just know something like this could come back to bite me in the bottom!

Try and talk to your solicitor about the Probation of Offenders Act. It's worth a shot, and if you can make a reasonable case(stress, single moment of madness etc) and prove that you are genuinely sorry for this mistake, I can't see them trying to put you down forever. Rehabilitation is key. Your crime isn't serious enough to not be considered for the probation Act. Look specifically at section 17(2)

http://www.probation.ie/pws/websitepublishing.nsf/attachmentsbytitle/Probation+of+Offenders+Act+1907/$file/Probation+of+Offenders+Act+1907.pdf

Seriously, get a new lawyer/solicitor and go through all your options. Even if it stands, time is the ultimate healer. Read over that first link I gave you. You can't change the past, but you can still prove your worth:)

Good luck anyhow. You can still potentially turn things around I think. You didn't commit an indictable offence. Just make sure you make the right choices from here on out.

Sarah316

thanks again,really appreciate the kind words,nice to know there's some understanding people remaining in the world!

is it common for a solicitor to prepare his client for worst case scenario or?

Sarah316

i would imagine this case would be a more serious crime than mine,however he seems to be getting a chance to be left without a conviction ?

http://www.herald.ie/news/courts/soccer-coach-had-euro35k-drugs-to-clear-debt-2887479.html

TheyKnowMyIP

Sarah316 wrote: »

i would imagine this case would be a more serious crime than mine,however he seems to be getting a chance to be left without a conviction ?

http://www.herald.ie/news/courts/soccer-coach-had-euro35k-drugs-to-clear-debt-2887479.html

Try and appeal under the basis of the fact your crime is less serious(not your main point though). The probation Act can at least in theory be applied after your conviction in court.

You could cite this case in an appeal. Make your case known. Best of luck.

TheyKnowMyIP

Sarah316 wrote: »

thanks again,really appreciate the kind words,nice to know there's some understanding people remaining in the world!

is it common for a solicitor to prepare his client for worst case scenario or?

Generally speaking, as long as you are genuinely trying to improve your situation, you won't know for certain. That is what the probation Act was designed for after all. Seriously though, get talking to your solicitor. You may not have exhausted all options yet. Random internet people aren't the best when it comes to stuff like this:pac:

BornToKill

There is a Spent Convictions Bill on the Government's legislative programme. The Bill has not yet been introduced but is in the offing.

mcgarrett

At any stage was the possibility of an adult caution considered.

It generally applies to amounts less than €1000 but in your case where money has been repaid / is the prosecution in the public interest etc.. it may be an option, or have you been charged at this stage?

amen

Everyone is saying is not a big deal but it is. Its theft. The op was in a position of trust and abused that position of trust to rob their employer.

If the op had walked down the street and robbed an old lady of her pension it would be seen as a dreadful crime but because its a so called "white crime" it is not a big deal ?

If you are convicted of theft you may not be able to work for any of the banks, law firms, join an accountancy body etc

0O7

have you been caught stealing before this?
have you already gotten an adult caution???

MagicSean

amen wrote: »

Everyone is saying is not a big deal but it is. Its theft. The op was in a position of trust and abused that position of trust to rob their employer.

If the op had walked down the street and robbed an old lady of her pension it would be seen as a dreadful crime but because its a so called "white crime" it is not a big deal ?

If you are convicted of theft you may not be able to work for any of the banks, law firms, join an accountancy body etc

Nobody is saying it's not a big deal. But in your example of the old lady being robbed the offender would be eligible for an adult caution even if he never returned the property. In the ops case they are slightly over the threshold for eligibility and have repaid the injured party yet they are not eligible. It's ridiculous.

0O7

MagicSean wrote: »

Nobody is saying it's not a big deal. But in your example of the old lady being robbed the offender would be eligible for an adult caution even if he never returned the property. In the ops case they are slightly over the threshold for eligibility and have repaid the injured party yet they are not eligible. It's ridiculous.

my bad... somewhere while reading i never saw that the value was 1300 and then wondered why they wernt getting adult caution...

OP, you should have only took 1000... then you be safe out

Contra Proferentem

If you're an ambitious person I imagine it would be the end of the world. Isn't it true you can't go on to be a solicitor, barrister or garda if you've a conviction?

I'd imagine it would make life awkward for you in any job where you're dealing with money as well, such as book-keeping, legal executive, bar person, etc., etc.

goat2

it is my guess, that because it is a big business with lots of staff, they are showing that this behaviour will not be forgiven, so those working there know that they will not just get slap on rist for this, also we hear that businesses are losing thousands every day due to this kind of behaviour, i would still try to see management and ask to be forgiven, as this on your record is not good, when you say that it will not effect the kind of position you hope to attain from college, i thought that most positions want a garda reference along with references of places you worked in, i would go to management and grovle if i were you, there is no harm trying, write a letter of apology, let it be seen that you are sorry, write that letter through your solicitor, so it can be recorded in corurt at the very least,

Sarah316

well....after getting a knew solicitor from the same firm to plead for me....

the judge decided to strike the case out completely!

so not even probation!

even the solicitor was in shock! never had more of a weight lifted off my shoulders!

thank you again for everyone who gave me advice and kind words over the last couple of months!

i won't forget it!

0O7

Sarah316 wrote: »

well....after getting a knew solicitor from the same firm to plead for me....

the judge decided to strike the case out completely!

so not even probation!

even the solicitor was in shock! never had more of a weight lifted off my shoulders!

thank you again for everyone who gave me advice and kind words over the last couple of months!

i won't forget it!

lesson learned... next time you may not be so lucky and destroy your life.

Sarah316

there will be no next time...never again would i put my family or myself through that...

0O7

Sarah316 wrote: »

there will be no next time...never again would i put my family or myself through that...

that is better that you actually being convicted in my opinion, learning a lesson in life...

good luck anyway

blueythebear

Sarah316 wrote: »

well....after getting a knew solicitor from the same firm to plead for me....

the judge decided to strike the case out completely!

so not even probation!

even the solicitor was in shock! never had more of a weight lifted off my shoulders!

thank you again for everyone who gave me advice and kind words over the last couple of months!

i won't forget it!

Can I ask on what grounds was the case struck out?

I'd be interested to know. If that would give away too much info, don't worry about it.

goat2

Sarah316 wrote: »

well....after getting a knew solicitor from the same firm to plead for me....

the judge decided to strike the case out completely!

so not even probation!

even the solicitor was in shock! never had more of a weight lifted off my shoulders!

thank you again for everyone who gave me advice and kind words over the last couple of months!

i won't forget it!

i am glad for you, could get it from your writings here that you were scared, one of lifes lessons, and fear sometimes is a good thing, as people can read into that and try to find a way around it, as is in your case, no harm in showing fear. get on with your life and i wish you luck, always do good,