Private Clamping

NBar

How long do they leave your car clamped before they move it or try to move it, a friend had her car clamped on Saturday morning but has not got the money to pay it and thought it was €100 release fee but now she has been told it is going to cost €300 for each 24 hours it was clamped, I visited the area it's clamped and the lighting is terrible and the signs are only really visible in the day and the night she parked there to go to the restuarant it was dark and raining and the car park was full and left the car behind as she had a few drinks, it is a private clamping company and they are being thick with her. I have looked at the paper attached to her car and it says they accept no responsibility for any damage done to the car when installing or removing the clamp etc. Just wondering would the same apply if she had the clamp removed by someone as whats good for one is good for another??.

mickdw

Remove it in the dark of night and take clamp away with her.. She will never hear about it again

robbie_998

They say they accept no responsibility from putting the clamp and taking it off but thats just balls.


of course they can be done for criminal damage regardless of where your parked.

as can you for damaging their clamp... criminal damage again.

NBar

True but no clamp means no evidence I suppose, There is no way she can pay the money and their appeals thing is a joke cause its all in house and is not an independent body looking at the appeal.

Doom

NBar wrote: »

How long do they leave your car clamped before they move it or try to move it, a friend had her car clamped on Saturday morning but has not got the money to pay it and thought it was €100 release fee but now she has been told it is going to cost €300 for each 24 hours it was clamped, I visited the area it's clamped and the lighting is terrible and the signs are only really visible in the day and the night she parked there to go to the restuarant it was dark and raining and the car park was full and left the car behind as she had a few drinks, it is a private clamping company and they are being thick with her. I have looked at the paper attached to her car and it says they accept no responsibility for any damage done to the car when installing or removing the clamp etc. Just wondering would the same apply if she had the clamp removed by someone as whats good for one is good for another??.

Wouldn't it be terrible if someone with a hoodie robbed the clamp by using a battery grinder, and because the owner was nowhere near it, the clamp company has no proof= cops will not give a sh1t

NBar

robbie_998 wrote: »

They say they accept no responsibility from putting the clamp and taking it off but thats just balls.


of course they can be done for criminal damage regardless of where your parked.

as can you for damaging their clamp... criminal damage again.

What happens if the car is damaged by someone else while they have it clamped and have posession of the car. I am fuming as she only told me last night as she though her fella could have got it off with a bolt cutters but that didn't work

NBar

Doom wrote: »

Wouldn't it be terrible if someone with a hoodie robbed the clamp by using a battery grinder, and because the owner was nowhere near it, the clamp company has no proof= cops will not give a sh1t

I have a con saw with a metal cutting disc and might just pop up to teh car park tonight and remove clamp and car then and as its is on private property as they claim it is the Guards can do nothing or will have no interest I hope

robbie_998

NBar wrote: »

What happens if the car is damaged by someone else while they have it clamped and have posession of the car. I am fuming as she only told me last night as she though her fella could have got it off with a bolt cutters but that didn't work

exactly.

random damage from an unknown person.

no one to blame cos they got away.... ah well ... nothing can be done. but someone gets a new clamp for themselves and the car is free.

nobody knows who did it so nobody can get the blame

two wheels good

Or you could remove the wheel and drop the wishbone or the strut to let the chain 'fall away'. A bit laborious but worth the effort

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0QkM-dWAXOs

NBar

two wheels good wrote: »

Or you could remove the wheel and drop the wishbone or the strut to let the chain 'fall away'. A bit laborious but worth the effort

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0QkM-dWAXOs

Cheers seen that but look at the video he starts in daylight and finishes in darkness, think I prefer to start and finish in darkness, will be heading to this place later and getting the car back hopefully

jhegarty

Doom wrote: »

Wouldn't it be terrible if someone with a hoodie robbed the clamp by using a battery grinder, and because the owner was nowhere near it, the clamp company has no proof= cops will not give a sh1t

Wouldn't it be very handy if the owner was having a passport application stamped in a Garda station on the other side of the city when the clamp is removed.

sean.casaidhe

Pay the clamp by credit card over the phone, then when the bill comes, call the bank and charge it back.
I know one particular company don't even ask for the security code over the phone, just the number and expiry date.

NBar

Was told the Con Saw Fairies struck last night ;):D:D

All is well, now just waiting to see what happens:D

johnboysligo

NBar wrote: »

All is well, now just waiting to see what happens:D

probably nothing.
Your friend might be liable in some way if the clamp is damaged but really your friends car is her property she can probably remove anything a private company places on it, and if there is no clamp to be found then there is no proof of the clamp being damaged and even then these kinds of companies do no want to get the courts or solicitors involved as it might bring about some form of regulation to private clamping companies.

You should be aware that your local authorities (traffic wardens) might have laws in place that allow them to clamp cars, they unlike private companies can and will bring your ass to court :P but unlike a private clamping company local authorities wouldn't clamp a car and leave it in place they would tow it to clear the parking spot.

Guy:Incognito

I found a much cheaper way to avoid clamps than consaws etc. I just park the way the owners of the land ask me. Has cost me €0 in penalties and cutting equipment to date.

Fey!

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

I found a much cheaper way to avoid clamps than consaws etc. I just park the way the owners of the land ask me. Has cost me €0 in penalties and cutting equipment to date.

If the parker couldn't see the signs due to bad lighting and bad signage (as the OP says, and I have no reason to disbelieve the OP), then presumably they thought that they were parking legally.

If they had seen the signs and ignored them I'd agree with you.

Either way, €300 per 24 hours is extortion, pure and simple.

Anan1

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

I found a much cheaper way to avoid clamps than consaws etc. I just park the way the owners of the land ask me. Has cost me €0 in penalties and cutting equipment to date.

Too considerate, too reasonable, and all around too decent for this thread. Given that nobody will be able to come up with a valid argument against what you say, they'll either simply ignore you, or perhaps regurgitate that old 'high horse' line for you if you're lucky.;)

NBar

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

I found a much cheaper way to avoid clamps than consaws etc. I just park the way the owners of the land ask me. Has cost me €0 in penalties and cutting equipment to date.

Thanks, but signs up over 8 foot on a pole and poor lighting and where you parked and walked to no signage and they use a restuarant there and spend alot of money and decide to get a taxi home instead of drink driving and when I looked at the car park with them no facility to pay and display.

She has no penalty points and has never been in an accident and then these cowboys try to hold her to ransome, good luck is all I say to them.

Fair play that you are the most law abiding motorist here

Paparazzo

Anan1 wrote: »

Too considerate, too reasonable, and all around too decent for this thread. Given that nobody will be able to come up with a valid argument against what you say, they'll either simply ignore you, or perhaps regurgitate that old 'high horse' line for you if you're lucky.;)

Or even worse, the posters on this thread might have the cop on to realise it's a con to have to pay €100 release fee and €300 for each 24 hours after that

Anan1

Paparazzo wrote: »

Or even worse, the posters on this thread might have the cop on to realise it's a con to have to pay €100 release fee and €300 for each 24 hours after that

Have the decency to comply with the landowners wishes and it won't be an issue.;)

Yakuza

Anan1 wrote: »

Have the decency to comply with the landowners wishes and it won't be an issue.;)

Charging €300 per day isn't exactly the paragon of decency. I think it's bordering on extortion. And sometimes you need to be telepathic, or have the eyesight of Superman in order to comply with the landowners' wishes (I'm talking in general terms here).

Guy:Incognito

Yakuza wrote: »

Charging €300 per day isn't exactly the paragon of decency. .

They dont charge that to use their land though, they charge that if you abuse their rules.

Maybe people should make sure they are 100% in compliance before using someone elses land and if not, just go elsewhere? It's not as difficult as it sounds. If in doubt, dont park and as a matter of principal, if somewhere does charge €300 a day , go somewhere else anyway.

NBar

Sorry I may have worded my op incorrectly, it was €105 to have it removed and €100 for each 24 hour period after, she did not have the €105 and by the time she raised it the release fee had gone up another €100 and was going to cost €305 on Monday morning. Not anymore:p Anyone who says she should not have parked on private property should read again, she was spending money in a restuarant which everyone there used to park and were told it was for that resturant and the other businesses, she was not the only one clamped but one thing is for sure she won't be dining there again or recommending it to anyone.

I for one will be using the Con Saw Fairies in future for any Private Clamping Company that think they can extort over inflated release fee's, Makes even Dick Turpin and Robin Hood look like saints to anyone that uses the roads

Guy:Incognito

NBar wrote: »

she was spending money in a restuarant which everyone there used to park and were told it was for that resturant and the other businesses, she was not the only one clamped but one thing is for sure she won't be dining there again or recommending it to anyone.

Well then she should take it up with the restaurant. Someobody is employing the clampers and if the restaurant owns the land, its most likely them. Did they tell her to park there overnight or just while eating during the previous evening?

Anan1

Yakuza wrote: »

Charging €300 per day isn't exactly the paragon of decency. I think it's bordering on extortion. And sometimes you need to be telepathic, or have the eyesight of Superman in order to comply with the landowners' wishes (I'm talking in general terms here).

If you don't know the rules, can't see the signs, or have any doubts whatsoever as to the wishes of the landowner then do the decent thing and just don't park there. It's not your property, it's someone else's - assume you don't have permission to use it until you're sure that you do. Forgetting about the law for a minute, this is basic manners IMO.

NBar

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

Well then she should take it up with the restaurant. Someobody is employing the clampers and if the restaurant owns the land, its most likely them. Did they tell her to park there overnight or just while eating during the previous evening?

No joy from them and they did not care as they said it was out of their control as they all handed over control to the clampers and then the clamping gang said she should not have parked there as it was not directly infront of the restuarant, there was no signage or markings saying where and where you could not park etc. In the end they lost as she got her car back and a clamp as a throphy:D

Anan1

NBar wrote: »

there was no signage or markings saying where and where you could not park etc.

Are you sure? If that was the case then anyone clamped could be sure of winning an appeal.

Yakuza

Anan1 wrote: »

If you don't know the rules, can't see the signs, or have any doubts whatsoever as to the wishes of the landowner then do the decent thing and just don't park there. It's not your property, it's someone else's - assume you don't have permission to use it until you're sure that you do. Forgetting about the law for a minute, this is basic manners IMO.

I accept that you can't park where you like and not expect some form of penalty, that's, as you quite rightly say, manners first above all. But I do think the punishment being meted out is excessive, and that we need regulation put on private parking / clamping to prevent abuse of power. Maximum rates for fines and minimum standards of lighting / signage would be a good start.

NBar

Anan1 wrote: »

Are you sure? If that was the case then anyone clamped could be sure of winning an appeal.

Who do you appeal to as these private clamping companies are not regulated and there is no leglisation covering them. They are outlawed in Scotland and Wales and they are parasites on society, if a landowner has problems with parking, install pay and display with a barrier system and it will pay for itself and if you get clamped you have no excuse, not cowboys hiding around corners and feeding of people.

Anan1

Yakuza wrote: »

I accept that you can't park where you like and not expect some form of penalty, that's, as you quite rightly say, manners first above all. But I do think the punishment being meted out is excessive, and that we need regulation put on private parking / clamping to prevent abuse of power. Maximum rates for fines and minimum standards of lighting / signage would be a good start.

Absolutely, i'd be in favour of all of the above. The fact remains, though, that if people behaved decently then clamping wouldn't be necessary at all. These threads are completely predictible - we get the same people every time banging on about clamping being illegal, clampers being thieves, and all the rest. They seem incapable of getting it into their heads that it's not their land. Proper, regulated clamping would hit these people where it hurts, allow prosecution of those who cut the clamps off, and make life much easier for decent, everyday people.

Phill Ewinn

It's not the clampers car Anan. The law is clear, this isn't a complex issue at all.

Anan1

NBar wrote: »

Who do you appeal to as these private clamping companies are not regulated and there is no leglisation covering them.

There was a big thread here recently about an 'independent' appeals board - i'm not sure how independent it actually is, but if you could prove that there were no signs at all then you'd have to win.

NBar wrote: »

They are outlawed in Scotland and Wales and they are parasites on society, if a landowner has problems with parking, install pay and display with a barrier system and it will pay for itself and if you get clamped you have no excuse, not cowboys hiding around corners and feeding of people.

Why should a landowner have to spend money protecting their land against trespass by you? It's not your property, and you know it's not - if you can't/won't ascertain and respect the landowners wishes then why not just stay away? Or should I have to put bars on my windows to keep you out of my house too?;)

Anan1

Phill Ewinn wrote: »

It's not the clampers car Anan. The law is clear, this isn't a complex issue at all.

The law is actually unclear, but the ethics of the matter appear clear enough. If you visited a strangers home, would you endeavour to learn their rules and abide by them? I'm sure you would, as would any decent individual. What makes a private car park so different?

NBar

I see that this thread has now gone from a car park and turned into a persons home and trespassing, as you know as it currently stands if you injure someone who trespasses on your land you are liable to prosecution, my thread is abot parking a car, the carpark was full of cars and a few cars were clamped on the following morning according to her, so they have aright to take posession of another property and hold them to ransom and pay what they see fit.
I think the Gardai should do the same and make up what fine they want to impose on you for speeding etc and march you to a cash machine and pay there and then. We live in a society that has regulations and legislation. These cowboys are currently outside this. If they want to stay the way the are then if they clamp any car belonging to friends or family of mine they will soon run out of clamps

If the thread cannot stay on topic then someone just close the thread as some folk here just want to row. The real world exists beyond the key board and screen

Phill Ewinn

Anan1 wrote: »

The law is actually unclear, but the ethics of the matter appear clear enough. If you visited a strangers home, would you endeavour to learn their rules and abide by them? I'm sure you would, as would any decent individual. What makes a private car park so different?

A private car park agrees to let you park. This was all covered before on here I'm sure. The clampers have no right to clamp the car.

Anan1

Phill Ewinn wrote: »

A private car park agrees to let you park. This was all covered before on here I'm sure. The clampers have no right to clamp the car.

A private car park agrees to let you park, subject to their rules. Morally, they have no right to clamp your car as long as you abide by their wishes. If I went into your house, put my boots up on your couch, and then tried telling you not to touch my boots, how would you react? Because it's basically about the same thing - respect for the property of others. Some people have it, some don't.

Cuddlesworth

Anan1 wrote: »

If I went into your house, put my boots up on your couch, and then tried telling you not to touch my boots, how would you react?

I'd probably chain you to the chair and send a letter to your family demanding a 100 euro fee for release and a subsequent 100 for each day unpaid.

Anan1

Cuddlesworth wrote: »

I'd probably chain you to the chair and send a letter to your family demanding a 100 euro fee for release and a subsequent 100 for each day unpaid.

And i'd probably come on here whining about how unfair you were being, and how the law was on my side. I'd then get a string of offers (with obligatory angle grinder pics) offering to cut the chain off while you were in bed. People are strange, sometimes.

Paparazzo

Anan1 wrote: »

Have the decency to comply with the landowners wishes and it won't be an issue.;)

But the point is, the punishment is far, far to harsh for the crime. By your reasoning, 10 years in prison is acceptable for throwing a chewing gum on the ground. Just don't throw it on the ground and it won't be an issue.

Guy:Incognito

Paparazzo wrote: »

But the point is, the punishment is far, far to harsh for the crime. By your reasoning, 10 years in prison is acceptable for throwing a chewing gum on the ground. Just don't throw it on the ground and it won't be an issue.

But if there were signs up on all streets saying "10 years in jal for throwing chewing gum on the ground" and you shrug and go "meh" and spit it out, whos fault is it if you end up in mountjoy for 10 years?

Anan1

Paparazzo wrote: »

But the point is, the punishment is far, far to harsh for the crime. By your reasoning, 10 years in prison is acceptable for throwing a chewing gum on the ground. Just don't throw it on the ground and it won't be an issue.

I agree with that bit. I'm all for the proper regulation of private clamping, clear signage, release fees at the same level as co co clampers, independent appeals, etc. But at the end of the day, if i'm going to park on someone elses property then i'll take the trouble to find out exactly what their conditions are and stick to them. If I can't/won't/don't agree with them then i'll park elsewhere. People seem to have a sense of entitlement where the property of others is involved, and yet are quite happy to bleat on about their own property rights when their car gets clamped. What's good for the goose is good for the gander.

Pkiernan

FFS - what are you? A Clamper in disguise???

And don't even get started on the legalities of it. It doesn't matter what signage exists, to charge €100 per day after the original clamp is by definition extortion:

1. to secure (money, favours, etc.) by intimidation, violence, or the misuse of influence or authority
2. to obtain by importunate demands the children extorted a promise of a trip to the zoo
3. (Business / Commerce) to overcharge for (something, esp interest on a loan).

It cannot be reasonably argued that €100 per day is a justifiable punishment for the "crime" of trespass.


OP - please keep us updated it the clamping company tries to take this any further.

Anan1

Pkiernan wrote: »

FFS - what are you? A Clamper in disguise???

We're not in the playground now.

Pkiernan wrote: »

And don't even get started on the legalities of it. It doesn't matter what signage exists, to charge €100 per day after the original clamp is by definition extortion:

1. to secure (money, favours, etc.) by intimidation, violence, or the misuse of influence or authority
2. to obtain by importunate demands the children extorted a promise of a trip to the zoo
3. (Business / Commerce) to overcharge for (something, esp interest on a loan).

It cannot be reasonably argued that €100 per day is a justifiable punishment for the "crime" of trespass.

If you don't like the rules then don't park there. What part of this aren't you getting?

giant_midget

Pkiernan wrote: »

FFS - what are you? A Clamper in disguise???

And don't even get started on the legalities of it. It doesn't matter what signage exists, to charge €100 per day after the original clamp is by definition extortion:

1. to secure (money, favours, etc.) by intimidation, violence, or the misuse of influence or authority
2. to obtain by importunate demands the children extorted a promise of a trip to the zoo
3. (Business / Commerce) to overcharge for (something, esp interest on a loan).

It cannot be reasonably argued that €100 per day is a justifiable punishment for the "crime" of trespass.


OP - please keep us updated it the clamping company tries to take this any further.

Spot on, €100 per day is a bit cheeky
Anal 1 needs to come down from that high horse up there in the sky :rolleyes:

-Chris-

I'm closing this thread. The Con Saw Fairies struck, the moment has passed. We're just rehashing old, well worn ground right now.

NBar, PM a mod if/when you want the thread reopened if you have any update with regard to the situation (letter from the clamping co or whatever).