Norris, more abuse of power

MMAIRELANDFAN

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/norris-made-seanad-plea-on-behalf-of-second-foreign-lover-2894088.html

This is unreal

PRESIDENTIAL candidate David Norris has become embroiled in a new controversy as reports emerge that he lobbied the Seanad in 2007 in an attempt to get Irish citizenship for his then Algerian boyfriend.

According to reports in The Sun newspaper, the independent senator -- who is already under pressure over letters he wrote seeking clemency for a Palestinian boyfriend who had been convicted of statutory rape -- made a plea in the Seanad after his partner, Tevfik Akin, had his citizenship application refused.

monkeybutter

No it's not

monkeybutter

Is the M M A Ireland Fan

Martin McGuinness for the Aras Fan? Is that what it means?

qz

MMAIRELANDFAN wrote: »

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/norris-made-seanad-plea-on-behalf-of-second-foreign-lover-2894088.html

This is unreal

Eh, doesn't seem that controversial to me. His then-partner tried to get citizenship and Norris tried to help him to achieve that. The guy wasn't convicted of statutory rape or apparently any other crime.

"Mr Akin has since been granted citizenship and now works as an attendant in St James's Hospital in Dublin. He and Senator Norris are no longer in a relationship."

What's the big deal?

MMAIRELANDFAN

monkeybutter wrote: »

Is the M M A Ireland Fan

Martin McGuinness for the Aras Fan? Is that what it means?

Mixeed Martial Arts, im actually voting Mary Davis

Morlar

It looks like he was repeatedly using his position in Irish Political life to advance the interests of his private, personal life.

I think the lack of coverage of this in the wider Irish media is pretty interesting, compared to the days of last week before he was even a candidate when he was on the front page of every news site/paper/tv channel.

wes

I don't see any issue here. This is nothing compared to the other incident at all.

siltirocker

Abuse of power. Simple as.

Millicent

MMAIRELANDFAN wrote: »

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/norris-made-seanad-plea-on-behalf-of-second-foreign-lover-2894088.html


This is unreal

To be fair, I've a problem with him pleading for clemency for Ezra Nawi as he committed a crime. Pleading for asylum for people is not limited to David Norris -- countless politicians have done the same.

Chuck Stone

We could be doing with a 'Norris revelations' containment thread.

hooradiation

I'm outraged.

Wait. no, no I'm not. Not in the slightest.

Wompa1

Morlar wrote: »

It looks like he was repeatedly using his position in Irish Political life to advance the interests of his private, personal life.

That's true but I bet every politician has and I'm not a Norris fan. It doesn't really help his case as a man of character. By the sounds of things he made a very grand appeal in front of the Seanad which most people don't get to do...so you could say that is an abuse of power but if you don't think other politicians are doing this sort of thing then I envy your world view!

MitchKoobski

He tried to help a partner get citizenship by appealing to the Seanad. Yer man eventually did get citizenship and now works for St. James' Hospital.



Wheres the abuse of power?

Yahew

It helps to have a senator who is a lover. However, any TD or Senator can make personal representations for constituents, or lovers, or whomever. Its the basis of Irish clientelism.

Staplor

This is a non story, every politician who "fixed the road" or lobbied for planning permission did the exact same thing.

Morlar

Millicent wrote: »

To be fair, I've a problem with him pleading for clemency for Ezra Nawi as he committed a crime. Pleading for asylum for people is not limited to David Norris -- countless politicians have done the same.

Most politicians aren't sticking their dick in the people they lobby for. Not literally anyhow.

sensibleken

wait....HE'S GAY?????:eek:

qz

Morlar wrote: »

I think the lack of coverage of this in the wider Irish media is pretty interesting, compared to the days of last week before he was even a candidate when he was on the front page of every news site/paper/tv channel.

Are we being exposed to the same media? Norris has been nothing but at the forefront of every possible skeleton-exposing smear "revelations" over the last number of months.

Millicent wrote: »

To be fair, I've a problem with him pleading for clemency for Ezra Nawi as he committed a crime. Pleading for asylum for people is not limited to David Norris -- countless politicians have done the same.

+1.

Chuck Stone wrote: »

We could be doing with a 'Norris revelations' containment thread.

Could probably fill its own forum at this stage :rolleyes:

Hannibal Smith

How on earth is it an abuse of power? These things happen with politicians all the time. A friend/constituent/neighbour/partner has a grievance, they do what they can to get to the bottom of it.

The Independent really need to stop trying to make scandals where there are none and just let the candidates get on with it.

seamus

Morlar wrote: »

I think the lack of coverage of this in the wider Irish media is pretty interesting

Not really. They know there's nothing in it, because you'd be hard pressed to find a politician who hasn't made representations for someone attempting to get citizenship or secure a passport, or get additional social welfare allowance, or any other of a range of things that politicians do.

The fact that the man was his partner is kind of irrelevant. Anyone who says that they wouldn't do the same for a partner or spouse if they were in the same position is a complete liar.

There's no illegality or abuse of position here. An abuse of position is when you use your power to make illegitimate gains for yourself or another. Making representations to a state body is not an abuse of power.

At this stage the mud slinging is just getting pathetic. Find a new record, lads.

hooradiation

but the magic formula is Norris + letter = Outrage.

Everyone knows that!

maygitchell

sensibleken wrote: »

wait....HE'S GAY?????:eek:

It shocking isnt it? Probably bummed people too and all :rolleyes:

My name is URL

It's hardly a revelation when it happened, on record, in the Seanad.

Millicent

Morlar wrote: »

Most politicians aren't sticking their dick in the people they lobby for. Not literally anyhow.

Lovely. Point is, it's a bit unseemly, but it's not all that different to writing a letter for Mrs. Murphy's daughter who grew up down the road from you, or advocating for your best friend.

I'm sure plenty of politicians have lobbied for people they've had sexual encounters/relationships with, just that those don't get publicised.

dvpower

Yet another Norris non story.
Yesterday's non story was the assisted suicide one. Now this.

Are there journalists employed full time to go through all of Norris' past senate contributions looking for any hint of controversy?

I wouldn't mind, but there are some real controversies out their involving Norris, like the unpublished letters. Do we really need the sideshows?

gk5000

Other politians make representations and lobby, but they don't make grandiose appeals on the floor of the senate or dail for their personal causes.

And besides, what has Norris as Senator done for the public this last 5,10, 20 years?

MMAIRELANDFAN

if you read it correct he more or less threatened to find out who black marked him and also accused people of been prejudice because he was a muslim-totally put the people who make these decisions in an awkward position, without having any good reason for him been given irish nationality

stevenmu

Hannibal Smith wrote: »

How on earth is it an abuse of power? These things happen with politicians all the time. A friend/constituent/neighbour/partner has a grievance, they do what they can to get to the bottom of it.

The Independent really need to stop trying to make scandals where there are none and just let the candidates get on with it.

IMO it's an abuse of power every time any of them do it. And I'm pretty sure Sen. Norris has spoken out against it.

Yahew

gk5000 wrote: »

Other politians make representations and lobby, but they don't make grandiose appeals on the floor of the senate or dail for their personal causes.

Plenty of personal cases are brought up in the Dail.

And besides, what has Norris as Senator done for the public this last 5,10, 20 years?

very little, no doubt. but probably more than most.

Merch

Staplor wrote: »

This is a non story, every politician who "fixed the road" or lobbied for planning permission did the exact same thing.

Hannibal Smith wrote: »

How on earth is it an abuse of power? These things happen with politicians all the time. A friend/constituent/neighbour/partner has a grievance, they do what they can to get to the bottom of it.

So because it happens all the time, its ok
That doesnt make it ok, far from it. We should be stamping out the kind of lobbying on behalf of someone thats known attitude.

Politicians shouldnt be affecting whether a road gets fixed, thats up to a local council, the money could be put to better use that serves more of the community, Ive come across instances of this where the road was the drive up of the person being lobbied for.

If that chap was applying for citizenship, there is a process, Im sure anyone else that has had to go through the process legitimately will find this somewhat unfair, given the wait was usually years and at some cost.
before anyone says, I consider someone lobbying on his lovers behalf undermining that process, how could it be viewed any other way.

I guess I didnt know as much about Mr Norris as I thought, excepting all this writing letters for people Id have voted for him, now he looks as bad or worse than any other politician, seems to think he's above normal rules and behaviour.

Yahew

wonder if Shinners are getting annoyed with Norris. He has to have reduced McGuinness' chances.

FloatingVoter

gk5000 wrote: »

Other politians make representations and lobby, but they don't make grandiose appeals on the floor of the senate or dail for their personal causes.

And besides, what has Norris as Senator done for the public this last 5,10, 20 years?

Well, if you happen to be a gay member of the public he was instrumental in legalising the right to be actively gay. Thats off the top of my head.
Oh, and he voted against the bank bailout. Didn't change anything - but it surely counts for something.

squod

Another boyfriend? Bearded gay lothario methinks.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hmMM6SedX3o

FloatingVoter wrote: »

Oh, and he voted against the bank bailout. Didn't change anything - but it surely counts for something.

Fair play to him for that.

StephenHendry

can't see the 'controversy' here or abuse of power, as others have said they all make representations, this is as bad as tubridy on the LLS asking norris continually about those letters ,

SEPT 23 1989

Is this the best the Catholic Far Right can come up with?

Min

The sound track to the David Norris's campaign: he ain't heavy, he's my lover.

MMAIRELANDFAN

StephenHendry wrote: »

can't see the 'controversy' here or abuse of power, as others have said they all make representations, this is as bad as tubridy on the LLS asking norris continually about those letters ,

If he disclosed the contents of the letters then he would not need to answer any more questions

he is hiding something

Yahew

Merch wrote: »

So because it happens all the time, its ok
That doesnt make it ok, far from it. We should be stamping out the kind of lobbying on behalf of someone thats known attitude.

It may or may not be ok, actually. You would probably be ok with a form of clientelism, for instance, if a TD told a story about a constituent who was denied cancer treatment because of cut-backs. TD's often lobby behind the scenes, sometimes in public.

That said, even if you despise it and even if it is common, then it is not an issue for the presidential campaign; because all the candidates who have political records have done the same.

Some forces are obviously out to get Norris, a mixture of old school Catholicism, Fine Gaelism, and possibly the Shinners now. A motley crew.

There has to be a reason the headlines don't, today, say:

GAY MITCHELL MAKES PLEA FOR CONSTITUENT IN DAIL OUTRAGE!.

Even though he most certainly has.

Min

The Seanad seems to be a place where you talk about your lovers, how your lover helped kill someone, how a poet who has sex with Nepalese boys should be protected from RTE.

David Norris makes a good case for why the Seanad should go. He could simply come to boards.ie and discuss it but he wouldn't get paid for it.

meditraitor

Yahew wrote: »

Some forces are obviously out to get Norris, a mixture of old school Catholicism, Fine Gaelism, and possibly the Shinners now. A motley crew.
.

Slip a mention af FF in there and you have EVERYTHING that is/was wrong with Ireland in one bucket of piss....... (oh except motley crew, they rock!)

dvpower

Min wrote: »

The Seanad seems to be a place where you talk about your lovers, how your lover helped kill someone, how a poet who has sex with Nepalese boys should be protected from RTE.

You want to censor Oireachtas members?

Morlar

Yahew wrote: »

There has to be a reason the headlines don't, today, say:

GAY MITCHELL MAKES PLEA FOR CONSTITUENT IN DAIL OUTRAGE!.

Even though he most certainly has.

If it was a woman he was fcuking, who came from a non eu country (say Thailand) and he wanted her to get nationalised, & had used the senate floor to say something like :

My GF in the visitors' gallery demands to know who put a black mark against him her and what is that black mark.

"I want the officials in the department to know I will pursue this matter to the bitter end.

"Woe for them if they have behaved wrongly because if I cannot get an answer in the Oireachtas, I will make sure in the courts that I get an answer."

Then yes - that would be a newsworthy issue.

Especially if it was not an isolated instance.

squod

Yahew wrote: »

Some forces are obviously out to get Norris, a mixture of old school Catholicism, Fine Gaelism, and possibly the Shinners now. A motley crew.

Conspiracy theories

---

>

Yahew wrote: »

There has to be a reason the headlines don't, today, say:

GAY MITCHELL MAKES PLEA FOR CONSTITUENT IN DAIL OUTRAGE!.

Even though he most certainly has.

Because Norris sells papers? DN rightly left the presidential race and struggled for nomination for the presidential election afterwards. No wonder people are talking. The reasons he left the presidential race are still valid. Yet elected representatives are still supporting him. That's the conspiracy if there is one IMO.

dvpower

Morlar wrote: »

If it was a woman he was fcuking, who came from a non eu country (say Thailand) and he wanted her to get nationalised, & had used the senate floor to say something like

Thailand? Why say Thailand?

MMAIRELANDFAN

Yahew wrote: »

Some forces are obviously out to get Norris, a mixture of old school Catholicism, Fine Gaelism, and possibly the Shinners now. A motley crew.

There has to be a reason the headlines don't, today, say:

GAY MITCHELL MAKES PLEA FOR CONSTITUENT IN DAIL OUTRAGE!.

Even though he most certainly has.

The papers will dig up anything on any of them that they find

Thats there job in fairness

If Gay Mitchell tried to get something for his wife through his power then it would be in the papers as abuse of power

I think many Norris voters have lost there moral compasses or are purely basing there vote on Norris's sexuality or else out of stubborness

Min

dvpower wrote: »

You want to censor Oireachtas members?

I simply didn't know it was where one who is elected talked about their lovers and worked for their own ends.

They are suppose to represent the interests of the country, not their own personal love affairs.

Snakeblood

MMAIRELANDFAN wrote: »

The papers will dig up anything on any of them that they find

Thats there job in fairness

If Gay Mitchell tried to get something for his wife through his power then it would be in the papers as abuse of power

I think many Norris voters have lost there moral compasses or are purely basing there vote on Norris's sexuality or else out of stubborness

Their job is to sell newspapers and advance their owners interest. If you're lucky, advancing their owners interest is downplayed.

Morlar

Yahew wrote: »

There has to be a reason the headlines don't, today, say:

GAY MITCHELL MAKES PLEA FOR CONSTITUENT IN DAIL OUTRAGE!.

Even though he most certainly has.

If it was a woman he was fcuking, who came from a non eu country (say Thailand) and he wanted her to get nationalised, & had used the senate floor to say something like :

My GF in the visitors' gallery demands to know who put a black mark against him her and what is that black mark.

"I want the officials in the department to know I will pursue this matter to the bitter end.

"Woe for them if they have behaved wrongly because if I cannot get an answer in the Oireachtas, I will make sure in the courts that I get an answer."

Then yes - that would be a newsworthy issue.

Especially if it was not an isolated instance.

dvpower wrote: »

Thailand? Why say Thailand?

Replace Thailand with any other country where significant numbers of non eu/non national women, who are in relationships with Irish men, originate from, and who are equally seeking citizenship. Then try and argue that it would be a non story if Mitchell had done it.

Particularly as a non isolated instance of lobbying to advance personal, private interests.

Merch

Yahew wrote: »

It may or may not be ok, actually. You would probably be ok with a form of clientelism, for instance, if a TD told a story about a constituent who was denied cancer treatment because of cut-backs. TD's often lobby behind the scenes, sometimes in public.

That said, even if you despise it and even if it is common, then it is not an issue for the presidential campaign; because all the candidates who have political records have done the same.

Some forces are obviously out to get Norris, a mixture of old school Catholicism, Fine Gaelism, and possibly the Shinners now. A motley crew.

There has to be a reason the headlines don't, today, say:

GAY MITCHELL MAKES PLEA FOR CONSTITUENT IN DAIL OUTRAGE!.

Even though he most certainly has.

Sorry, what, you dont speak for me, I speak for me.

I dont know of that story, it is a completley different thing to getting someone citizenship cos he bummed them, it actually sounds serious. (ive nothing against him bumming anyone either so long as its consensual, but that doesnt give him the right to use the system to gain preferential treatment for that guys application, just because he's a senator.

The story of who ever that person is getting denied treatment is completly and utterly different to some dick getting his drive tarmac'd or someone abusing the process for applying for citizenship when anyone else that applied had to wait years and pay a substantial amount of money.
I'm not an oncologist nor do i know the details of that case re cancer, I cant say if it was worth that person getting treatment, it sounds fair that they should but also maybe the money spent there may have treated 5 or 10 other people, we dont know.

4leto

There is something else to be considered here.

First I am absolutely opposed to Norris over other issues but not this.

He is gay, no revelation there, and he was in a relationship with a non EU citizen.

Now if he felt the relationship had a future, which most in a relationship feel, because it was a gay relationship he cannot marry his partner, so his partner would never have been granted citizenship here by that means.
This may have been his only way of doing so.

There was no civil partnership in 2007.

Show Time

It must be great to have the power to help any pretty boy who catchs his eye.