Airtricity League 2011-2012

leposean · 02-10-2011 6:42pm #1

Just wondering what the current plan for the league is.

I recently read that they were going to go with a 16 league team to make the bottom of the league more competitive and to help raise more money in the league. I'm assuming if that is the case then whoever gets relegated this season would actually stay up.

If this is the case your looking at a league made up of Bohs, Shamrock Rovers, St. Pats, UCD, Shelbourne. Monaghan, Cork, Limerick, Sligo, Derry, Bray, Dundalk, Drogheda, Galway Utd (providing something mental doesn't happen in the D1) along with most likely, Longford and Waterford.

If this is the case is there really enough room for 5 Dublin teams and basically 6 in the area seen as you can throw a stone from the Carlisle into Dublin (I am a Bray fan and live beside the ground so dont start saying Dublin this Wicklow that as a lot of Bray fans come from the likes of Ballybrack, Shankill, Killiney etc) And is it financially viable for teams who's money situation is quite bad to travel to so many away ties.

Also the question needs to be asked do they stay as a summer soccer league and also do teams still play each other 4 times. What about also having all fixtures on Mondays and Fridays to keep away from clashing with tele football from England/Spain.

Sorry about all the thoughts/questions, just thought all of these thoughts could be discussed and addressed

SantryRed · 02-10-2011 6:49pm

It's going to 12 teams next season.

Supposedly, all teams will play each other twice and then the top 6 and bottom 6 will then be split into 2 and teams in either group will play each other twice. (retarded decision if true)

Gavin "shels" · 02-10-2011 6:53pm

Well the 1st Division is being scraped and is being replaced with two regionalised divisions. Hopefully they move to a 16 team, it's the only way tbh.

BOHtox · 02-10-2011 7:04pm

leposean wrote: »

If this is the case is there really enough room for 5 Dublin teams and basically 6 in the area seen as you can throw a stone from the Carlisle into Dublin (I am a Bray fan and live beside the ground so dont start saying Dublin this Wicklow that as a lot of Bray fans come from the likes of Ballybrack, Shankill, Killiney etc) And is it financially viable for teams who's money situation is quite bad to travel to so many away ties.

Good thread firstly, mate. I'll comment on it more after the X-Factor.
Anyway RE: Dublin Teams.

I believe there's room for a lot more than 5 Dublin teams. I think one more on each side of the Liffey is viable if placed in the right location.

Bohs-Blanch
Rovers- Tallaght
Pats- Slightly more inner-city than they are now.
UCD- Where they are now
Shels- Where they are now
A Swords team
One around Dundrum/ Stillorgan

Also: I hope they go 18. with 16 you only get 30 games. That's not enough for a sustainable level unless there's a split. But splitting is a terrible option.

dsmythy · 02-10-2011 7:20pm

I think it's insane the clubs don't already know the structure of the league next year. How are you supposed to plan ahead?

Regionalising the First Division seems like a good plan. Should reduce some costs and get the "developmental" teams playing more proper games. Is it going to be a straight north/south split or are we talking three/four different leagues or something?

I've no problem with either the 12 team 'split' league or the 16 team division. A 12 team might be able to include more teams in the regional divisions at a lesser cost to each club. In theory it will mean each game in the top and bottom splits has a greater chance of being important and tight.

As for how many Dublin area teams there are, I'd like to think those with the support will find it easier to get on than those with less. That's football.

IMO there's no problem with 30 games in a season. You have the FAI Cup for more games plus a restructure of the league cup can add more games.

gimmick · 02-10-2011 7:34pm

Gavin shels wrote: »

Well the 1st Division is being scraped and is being replaced with two regionalised divisions.

That aint confirmed yet.

Pinturicchio · 02-10-2011 7:40pm

It's absolutely ridiculous that the FAI didn't clarify all of this before the season started.

upandcumming · 02-10-2011 8:04pm

BOHtox wrote: »

One around Dundrum/ Stillorgan

Terrible place for a team. You have UCD around the corner, and with rugby the more prominent sport around there, they wouldn't last a week.

gnfnrhead · 02-10-2011 8:05pm

Pinturicchio wrote: »

It's absolutely ridiculous that the FAI didn't clarify all of this before the season started.

I wouldnt be surprised if they dont even know whats happening yet.

BOHtox · 02-10-2011 8:07pm

upandcumming wrote: »

Terrible place for a team. You have UCD around the corner, and with rugby the more prominent sport around there, they wouldn't last a week.

There's a huge catchement area there. I know of a fair few people from there who support Rovers and Pats. A local team would be supported well.

3hn2givr7mx1sc · 02-10-2011 8:44pm

More places in need of a team than Dublin, tbh. Offaly/Kildare/Laois/Tipp/Kilkenny don't have teams. Could do with a Midlands team in fairness.

oldyouth · 02-10-2011 8:47pm

Pinturicchio wrote: »

It's absolutely ridiculous that the FAI didn't clarify all of this before the season started.

Too many factors yet to be resolved before the start of next season, most of them relate to whether clubs can survive the winter financially

Zebra3 · 02-10-2011 9:04pm

leposean wrote: »

If this is the case is there really enough room for 5 Dublin teams and basically 6 in the area seen as you can throw a stone from the Carlisle into Dublin (I am a Bray fan and live beside the ground so dont start saying Dublin this Wicklow that as a lot of Bray fans come from the likes of Ballybrack, Shankill, Killiney etc)

Given how clubs have come and gone from Cork, Derry and Limerick over the years, I think the question should be is one team from those towns too many?

:pac:

Pinturicchio · 02-10-2011 9:08pm

baz2009 wrote: »

Could do with a Midlands team in fairness.

Because Athlone and Longford are doing so well?

gimmick · 02-10-2011 9:24pm

Tralee dynamoes and Carlow (I think) are trying to get 1st division licenses.

3hn2givr7mx1sc · 02-10-2011 9:29pm

Pinturicchio wrote: »

Because Athlone and Longford are doing so well?

Southern midland team then, Laois, Tipp and Kilkenny are all two hours away from Longford, Kilkenny possibly two and a half. Tipp and KK are almost two hours away from Athlone, Laois would be an hour and 15 to an hour and a half away. Granted Tipp have Limerick FC close-ish, do you not think it fair to have a team representing this part of Ireland?

3hn2givr7mx1sc · 02-10-2011 9:31pm

gimmick wrote: »

Tralee dynamoes and Carlow(I think) are trying to get 1st division licenses.

Were Tralee not in the First Division recently enough?
Good to hear about Carlow, completely forgot about Carlow in my previous posts(as in the county itself, not the team).:pac:

Pinturicchio · 02-10-2011 9:47pm

gimmick wrote: »

Tralee dynamoes and Carlow (I think) are trying to get 1st division licenses.

Aren't Fanad as well?

baz2009 wrote: »

Southern midland team then, Laois, Tipp and Kilkenny are all two hours away from Longford, Kilkenny possibly two and a half. Tipp and KK are almost two hours away from Athlone, Laois would be an hour and 15 to an hour and a half away. Granted Tipp have Limerick FC close-ish, do you not think it fair to have a team representing this part of Ireland?

My knowledge of the geography of that area could be better, to be honest. Of course it's fair for it to have a team, but I can't see it being any better supported than Athlone and Longford are or than Kilkenny City was.

Galway United have fans from North Tipp btw.

baz2009 wrote: »

Were Tralee not in the First Division recently enough?

They've never been higher than the A Championship.

upandcumming · 03-10-2011 12:59am

BOHtox wrote: »

There's a huge catchement area there. I know of a fair few people from there who support Rovers and Pats. A local team would be supported well.

You know a few hundred people that live there that support Rovers and Pats?
UCD is in that area and the get feck all support.

Gavin "shels" · 03-10-2011 1:19am

gimmick wrote: »

That aint confirmed yet.

Well the Shels board were fairly certain at the start of the season it was.

baz2009 wrote: »

More places in need of a team than Dublin, tbh. Offaly/Kildare/Laois/Tipp/Kilkenny don't have teams. Could do with a Midlands team in fairness.

Em Kildare County tried and failed, Kilkenny tried and failed even worse. Having been to several matches of each I'd say they both had a combined fanbase of about 50-60.

gimmick · 03-10-2011 8:12am

^ Friend of mine works for CCFC and is in charge of the licensing procedures etc. There has been no formal decision yet made regarding he make up of LOI Division 1. Hardly surprising really.

dan1895 · 03-10-2011 8:53am

gimmick wrote: »

^ Friend of mine works for CCFC and is in charge of the licensing procedures etc. There has been no formal decision yet made regarding he make up of LOI Division 1. Hardly surprising really.

Leading to the ridiculous scenario we have now of teams not knowing what they're playing for (apart from first place obviously)

vellocet · 03-10-2011 9:06am

baz2009 wrote: »

Southern midland team then, Laois, Tipp and Kilkenny are all two hours away from Longford, Kilkenny possibly two and a half. Tipp and KK are almost two hours away from Athlone, Laois would be an hour and 15 to an hour and a half away. Granted Tipp have Limerick FC close-ish, do you not think it fair to have a team representing this part of Ireland?

It isn't american football ffs.

If Tipp wants a LoI team, there is nothing stopping a Tipp team making the step up.

vellocet · 03-10-2011 9:08am

upandcumming wrote: »

You know a few hundred people that live there that support Rovers and Pats?
UCD is in that area and the get feck all support.

Can't speak for Pats, but that area is a huge Rovers catchment.

gustavo · 03-10-2011 9:16am

I definitely think that this millionth shuffle of the deckchairs is the one that will finally solve all our problems

BOHtox · 03-10-2011 10:08am

upandcumming wrote: »

You know a few hundred people that live there that support Rovers and Pats?
UCD is in that area and the get feck all support.

No. I was on the bus from there to Tallaght and there was a fair few Rovers fans on it. I know of Pats fans from there too. There is potential for a team there.

vellocet · 03-10-2011 10:32am

BOHtox wrote: »

No. I was on the bus from there to Tallaght and there was a fair few Rovers fans on it. I know of Pats fans from there too. There is potential for a team there.

There is a team there already.

No to franchise football.

_blank_ · 03-10-2011 10:41am

BOHtox wrote: »

A Swords team

What will be call them?

Dynamo Swords?

Swords Torpedo?

Sporting Swords?

The Swords team was tried, and failed already, so what the fúck are you talking about suggesting a Swords Team

Now, Dundrum. Jesus

BOHtox wrote: »

There's a huge catchement area there. I know of a fair few people from there who support Rovers and Pats. A local team would be supported well.

BOHtox wrote: »

No. I was on the bus from there to Tallaght and there was a fair few Rovers fans on it. I know of Pats fans from there too. There is potential for a team there.

So, anyone who is in the area who wants to support a LoI team already is, they are hardly going to change allegiences, are they?

Stupid ideas.:rolleyes:

Pinturicchio · 03-10-2011 10:50am

gimmick wrote: »

^ Friend of mine works for CCFC and is in charge of the licensing procedures etc. There has been no formal decision yet made regarding he make up of LOI Division 1. Hardly surprising really.

So that's a paid role?

gimmick · 03-10-2011 10:52am

Pinturicchio wrote: »

So that's a paid role?

Ya, he is full time with the club.

BOHtox · 03-10-2011 10:55am

vellocet wrote: »

There is a team there already.

No to franchise football.

Do you know what a franchise is?

Des wrote: »

What will be call them?

Dynamo Swords?

Swords Torpedo?

Sporting Swords?

The Swords team was tried, and failed already, so what the fúck are you talking about suggesting a Swords Team .

Sporting Fingal did not play in Swords, they played in Santry. There were also not marketed as a Swords team. I was in the Gaeltacht with few lads from Swords, about 10 of them. They pretty much made up 1/4 of all of Fingal's support

Sporting were a club for how many years? 3 or so? and managed to build up support of 300-400 in that time. Imagine what they would have had if the had have stuck around for longer.

Des wrote: »

Now, Dundrum. Jesus .

Yeah I mean why try something new and different when we can just be pessimistic about everything?

Des wrote: »

So, anyone who is in the area who wants to support a LoI team already is, they are hardly going to change allegiences, are they?

Stupid ideas.:rolleyes:

Yes because the quarter bus full of Rovers fan and the handful of pat's fans are the only people living in the are.
Stupid comment:rolleyes:

vellocet · 03-10-2011 10:58am

BOHtox wrote: »

Do you know what a franchise is?

Sporting Fingal did ot play in Swords, they played in Santry. There were also not marketed as a Swords team.

Yeah I mean why try something different?

Yes because the quarter bus full of Rovers fan and the handful of pat's fans are the only people living in the are.
Stupid comment:rolleyes:

If there is space for a Swords team, one will emerge. Anything else is franchise football.

Pinturicchio · 03-10-2011 12:55pm

gimmick wrote: »

Ya, he is full time with the club.

Do you know how many other paid staff they have? Apart from coaches and players.

How many do most clubs have?

gimmick · 03-10-2011 1:02pm

Why do you ask?

I think there are 2 full time off field employees. There is also the board of management who have other jobs as well.

Pinturicchio · 03-10-2011 1:06pm

Just curious. We don't have any. I would be surprised if many clubs could afford more than one.

vellocet · 03-10-2011 1:09pm

Pinturicchio wrote: »

Just curious. We don't have any. I would be surprised if many clubs could afford more than one.

You have no full time administrators? :eek::eek:

Rovers have 7 or 8

GLaDOS · 03-10-2011 1:10pm

vellocet wrote: »

You have no full time administrators? :eek::eek:

In fairness, it's Galway

vellocet · 03-10-2011 1:14pm

ScienceNerd wrote: »

In fairness, it's Galway

But if they had a full time administrator, would the situation have evolved they way it has?

dsmythy · 03-10-2011 2:02pm

Des wrote: »

The Swords team was tried, and failed already, so what the fúck are you talking about suggesting a Swords Team

A Swords team not even playing in Swords. Fingal could be still alive and kicking down the bottom of the table with Galway if the people involved had some cop on.

Anyway this thread is meant to be about league structure. A lot of issues would be helped by Ireland having a proper promotion/relegation system from the very top to the very bottom. I'd choke on my already antique Fingal jersey if this ever happened.

_blank_ · 03-10-2011 2:09pm

There's nowhere for them to play in Swords, who is going to build a stadium for a team to play in in Swords?

A builder - oh wait, a builder bankrolled the last team in Swords.

The Santry Stadium is a ten.fifteen minute drive from Swords (I know, I work in Swords and drive by Santry on my way home), and is serviced regularly by busses from Swords, so it's not as if Fingal were a Swords team playing in Timbuktu.

Now, if a real Swords team decided to try and make the jump, come up thorugh the LSL and into the A Championship/Regionalised First Division, then there'd be no problem, and they could perhaps gather a loyal and growing fanbase on their way up, but simply franchising a team into the area expecting Fingalers to suddenly start supporting them, well it was doomed from the start.

There is no reason for there not to be a Swords team, it's a huge area.

dsmythy · 03-10-2011 2:15pm

I think a permanent league link between LOI and junior football leagues would help a lot though. Am i being too pessimistic in thinking it's impossible?

_blank_ · 03-10-2011 2:17pm

dsmythy wrote: »

I think a permanent league link between LOI and junior football leagues would help a lot though. Am i being too pessimistic in thinking it's impossible?

no, you're not.

I can't see it happening any time soon.

Pinturicchio · 03-10-2011 2:26pm

vellocet wrote: »

You have no full time administrators? :eek::eek:

Rovers have 7 or 8

ScienceNerd wrote: »

In fairness, it's Galway

We've no paid administrators. There's a difference.

vellocet wrote: »

But if they had a full time administrator, would the situation have evolved they way it has?

While "the sitatuation" was evolving there was one "administrator" on more than our entire squad is now. For a while he had 4 or 5 paid people working with him too.

dsmythy · 03-10-2011 2:28pm

Des wrote: »

no, you're not.

I can't see it happening any time soon.

I guess we're stuck with teams making applications so. At least the idea of a regionalised second tier allows for expansion when required.

leposean · 04-10-2011 9:25pm

how does that work ?

Zebra3 · 04-10-2011 10:49pm

leposean wrote: »

how does that work ?

Maybe it doesn't.

leposean · 05-10-2011 1:35am

I'll solve the problem of LOI in this one simple post.

What I first posted, this 16 team league needs to be done. Then three regional divisons. Midlands, Leinster, South/West.

How these are then divided would be whatever way they decide. for example take the LSL.

Their top two league winners play each other and in a two legged playoff and they play the winner of, Midlands league v South/West league (again in a two legged playoff) The winner of this then gains entry into the League of Ireland Premier Divison. The team relegated goes into the highest league of their individual region.

dsmythy · 05-10-2011 2:16am

leposean wrote: »

I'll solve the problem of LOI in this one simple post.

What I first posted, this 16 team league needs to be done. Then three regional divisons. Midlands, Leinster, South/West.

How these are then divided would be whatever way they decide. for example take the LSL.

Their top two league winners play each other and in a two legged playoff and they play the winner of, Midlands league v South/West league (again in a two legged playoff) The winner of this then gains entry into the League of Ireland Premier Divison. The team relegated goes into the highest league of their individual region.

The junior leagues want nothing to do with LOI football. Kind of makes the plan fall flat.

gimmick · 05-10-2011 8:16am

leposean wrote: »

I'll solve the problem of LOI in this one simple post.

What I first posted, this 16 team league needs to be done. Then three regional divisons. Midlands, Leinster, South/West.

How these are then divided would be whatever way they decide. for example take the LSL.

Their top two league winners play each other and in a two legged playoff and they play the winner of, Midlands league v South/West league (again in a two legged playoff) The winner of this then gains entry into the League of Ireland Premier Divison. The team relegated goes into the highest league of their individual region.

"Simple" is the right word there anyway!

leposean · 05-10-2011 11:17am

gimmick wrote: »

"Simple" is the right word there anyway!

ok smart a$$ whats wrong with my idea?

gimmick · 05-10-2011 12:00pm

Its just not that easy. Are there sufficinet teams out there who will get a premier division licence? Sure, maybe this year, put the top 4 from Div 1 into the prem to make the 16, but will Galway get a Prem license given their current problems? So we have 11. Can another Div 1 team make an immediate step up?

Secondly, are there enough teams wanting LOI status to warrant 3 regional 1st divisions? Would the more ambitious among them have premier division licenses to allow them into the premier should they get promoted?

Thirdly, the gap between even LOI Division 1 and the soon to die A Championship is huge. Look at what happened last season - Cobh ran away with the A, while Salthill were cut adrift very early from Div 1. Salthill won both legs of the playoff to retain their staus.

Now, imagine if Cobh, for example, were to win your idea for the play offs. They would be cast in among Sligo, Derry and Shams. They would be eaten alive and relegated by August. As it is, they would probably have struggled badly in this years 1st division.

So for those reason above is why I think your idea isn't a great one. In theory it would be nice, reality is a completely different story.

Airtricity League 2011-2012

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