Sexton or O'Gara (part 2) for the Wales Game? *mod warning post 12*

RoryMc23

Lets try keep our heads because its the biggest selection issue for the biggest game in Irish rugby history.

O'Gara has been flawless in conversions, poor out of hand kicking but has generally done well. Hes consistent, hes experienced but is he limited?

Sexton seems to have put the kicking ghosts to bed, his kicking out of hand was very good against Australia and his defence is superb as was seen today with a try saving tackle. However, he is inconsistent... is his general play enough?

Wales are a huge attacking threat and have a very good lineout, for that reason I'd start Sexton. Before today I was supporting ROG but as I said in another thread, if Sexton can kick he starts.

Opinions?

Reloc8

Either, feck it.

jk86

Healy

Healy

RoryMc23

Healy

jk86 wrote: »

Healy

I was going to put that option there. But internet, serious business.

Flygimp

Sexton

The Kiwi rugby press are backing O' Garra... he was involved tonight in all facets of play... and upped his defence game. Also take faith in your loosy combination! At the moment they are on fire and O' Brian has been rated very highly by Southern Hemisphere standards.... high impact in the loose, break downs and massive on offensive D.

They will cover O' Garra well next Saturday... and against Wales next week EVERY penalty/conversion has to be slotted.

Superbus

Parra.

Condon

Sexton

ROG no question, his penalty kicking was flawless yet again even wen most of the kicks were out on the sides. his passing was crisp too

RoryMc23

Healy

Condon wrote: »

ROG no question, his penalty kicking was flawless yet again even wen most of the kicks were out on the sides. his passing was crisp too

No question until Sexton came on and slotted the kicks. Two moments in those brief 10minutes swung it to Sexton for me. His try saving tackle and that kick from the corner. If Sexton can kick he should start because he offers far too much around the pitch. Defensively hes incredible and were going to need a perfect defence against Wales.

marco_polo

Sexton

Atari Wallace

jd007

Do we really have to go though this again?

justsomebloke

**BIG MOD WARNING, NO CRAP WILL BE TAKEN FROM THE START THIS IS YOUR WARNING FOR EVERY ASPECT AND I WILL LOCK THIS THREAD IF NEEDED**

Pride Fighter

Sexton

13 years of experience and exemplary kicking out of hand, we'll need ROG to gain the territory to choke the Welsh.

Great that we have 2 players in form in the same position:)

Dempsey

Sexton

Sexton had two good kicks but the match was won at that stage so, the only pressure on him to succeed with them was coming from himself. In a tighter match (i.e. one score game), would you back him 100% because of his two kicks against the Italians? I wouldnt

RoryMc23

Healy

Pride Fighter wrote: »

13 years of experience and exemplary kicking out of hand, we'll need ROG to gain the territory to choke the Welsh.

Great that we have 2 players in form in the same position:)

Two problems with that : ROG's kicking out of hand has been terrible and with Best out is kicking for touch a good option?

Spud83

For feck sake, can we not just enjoy being there for one day, before we start this up.

daddydick

Sexton

For me it has to be ROG. A huge game player and his 100 odd caps add the experience that will be needed against the Welsh.

Saying that though if Sexton starts I would have great confidence in him given his play in the open and tonights kicking cameo. He admitted during the week that he has had an issue with his kicking and tonight he proved it is remedied. If he takes his time over kicks and keeps a cool head like he does when wearing blue, I would have no qualms. Remember some of ROG's biggest moments have come with time running out against the Welsh....what a man to bring into a tight game with 15 to go.

jd007

either

daddydick

Sexton

Spud83 wrote: »

For feck sake, can we not just enjoy being there for one day, before we start this up.

Feel free to enjoy your day and avoid this thread. Now if you wouldnt mind some of us want to discuss this issue so if you have nothing valuable to say, avoid the thread instead of rubbing people up.

justsomebloke

RoryMc23 wrote: »

I was going to put that option there. But internet, serious business.

poll now edited

thomond2006

I think we gotta play territory against the Welsh and put pressure on their lineout. Playing a fast and loose game will suit them.

ROG should start.

mr.mickels

Sexton

Both are doing just fine, I would likely start with O'Gara

irishbucsfan

SOB

ROG for me. He played very well today in all facets of the game.

Tweedo

Healy

I think we have to go with ROG. It's obviously gonna be a tight game so we can't afford to have Sexton missing kicks, two kicks in the last 10 minutes when the game is won shouldn't warrant starting him

phog

I'll trust whatever team takes the field. Both can deliver and Sexton got his kicks today so he'll have gained from that.

A.Partridge

We need both.

Maybe the reverse of what happened today.


Put Sexton on for 60 minutes for his greater physical presence...with O'Gara coming on for the last quarter.

Both will need to have big games though.

puntosporting

Sexton

O'Gara will start im convinced of it, why should he lose his place after controlling the game today?
And to say his kicking out of hand is poor is just bull he was fantastic today !
Sexton did well when he came on and slotted nicely when the pressure was off and the game won!

Funkfield

Did no one read the mod warning?

Typh

In my opinion I think it’s a shallow argument to say Sexton should be the immediate default 10 having slotted two kicks when the game was essentially over. As happy as I am to see him get some semblance of confidence back from two difficult kicks, it shouldn’t immediately displace O’Gara in my opinion, if the argument is based on merit alone anyway.
Talking about game management and tactical kicking, I feel neither have been overtly outstanding. If you’re starting Sexton based on the idea that he can get the backs moving as if it’s something O’Gara cannot do I think you’re pigeon-holing either of them excessively. Sexton nailed his difficult kicks, and before that there was already 26 points on the board from excellent back play with O’Gara on the field.

I would echo the sentiment expressed by a lot here that both are needed in some capacity within the 80 minutes; they’re spoilt for choice given the fact so many other nations aren’t exactly thriving in the 10 slot and Ireland have two options that are. Three if you count Healy.

RoryMc23

Healy

puntosporting wrote: »

O'Gara will start im convinced of it, why should he lose his place after controlling the game today?
And to say his kicking out of hand is poor is just bull he was fantastic today !
Sexton did well when he came on and slotted nicely when the pressure was off and the game won!

It's not bull, his kicking out of hand has been very poor so far. It was very notable against Australia and today it was no better. I was in the ROG camp but Sexton can kick again (he said in a recent article that he sorted out the problem during the week) and hes the better all round player.

Wales also know ROG very well.

alchemist33

Sexton

Spud83 wrote: »

For feck sake, can we not just enjoy being there for one day, before we start this up.

Ah no. If we don't get the poll up early enough, Kidney won't have enough time to log on and get a proper consensus.

Micky Dolenz

Sexton

Have to go with O Gara, he hasn't done much wrong and deserves his shirt.

Sexton took his kicks well today but was under no real pressure. Mighty in defence though.

Feck it, I'm delighted we have a choice

castie

Sexton

RoryMc23 wrote: »

It's not bull, his kicking out of hand has been very poor so far. It was very notable against Australia and today it was no better. I was in the ROG camp but Sexton can kick again (he said in a recent article that he sorted out the problem during the week) and hes the better all round player.

Wales also know ROG very well.

Sexton from hand slotted at least two down the fullbacks throat no where near touch today also...

chupacabra

Sexton

RoryMc23 wrote: »

It's not bull, his kicking out of hand has been very poor so far. It was very notable against Australia and today it was no better. I was in the ROG camp but Sexton can kick again (he said in a recent article that he sorted out the problem during the week) and hes the better all round player.

Wales also know ROG very well.

We ARE watching the same Tournament right?

Reloc8

A.Partridge wrote: »

We need both.

Maybe the reverse of what happened today.


Put Sexton on for 60 minutes for his greater physical presence...with O'Gara coming on for the last quarter.

Both will need to have big games though.

Why would you need a more physical presence against Wales than against Italy ?

I think at this stage Kidney should just declare normal rules apply - he has no reason whatsoever to drop O'Gara - who has generally done well against Wales - and therefore he won't, drop him that is.

D'Arcy coming back on song today just shows the fallacy that it is only Sexton that can get that backline moving.

And, just because it seems to be necessary to make clear, I'm a Leinster fan and a massive Sexton fan.

phog

RoryMc23 wrote: »

It's not bull, his kicking out of hand has been very poor so far. It was very notable against Australia and today it was no better. I was in the ROG camp but Sexton can kick again (he said in a recent article that he sorted out the problem during the week) and hes the better all round player.

Wales also know ROG very well.

And they wont know Sexton? He plays in the ML, HC and the 6Ns meaning the Welsh would be as familar with Sexton. Not arguing over who should start but to argue to drop ROG because he's known to Wales is a nonsence.

donfers

Sexton

no doubt about it - ROG, he left the field at 26-6 with the game won and was a key part of ensuring the victory

molloyjh

Healy

Whichever OH suits the game we decide to play best. Simples. We can have faith that both will do the business.

RoryMc23

Healy

Reloc8 wrote: »

Why would you need a more physical presence against Wales than against Italy ?

I think at this stage Kidney should just declare normal rules apply - he has no reason whatsoever to drop O'Gara - who has generally done well against Wales - and therefore he won't, drop him that is.

D'Arcy coming back on song today just shows the fallacy that it is only Sexton that can get that backline moving.

And, just because it seems to be necessary to make clear, I'm a Leinster fan and a massive Sexton fan.

Why do you always feel the need to mention that you're a Leinster fan in your posts? Something I've noticed, it doesnt make your opinions anymore valuable

You need a better defence against Wales because they are infinitely more of an attacking threat than Italy.

Aidric

Sexton

RoryMc23 wrote: »

Sexton seems to have put the kicking ghosts to bed

Because he made two kicks when the game was won?

RoryMc23

Healy

phog wrote: »

And they wont know Sexton? He plays in the ML, HC and the 6Ns meaning the Welsh would be as familar with Sexton. Not arguing over who should start but to argue to drop ROG because he's known to Wales is a nonsence.

How many of them have trained with Sexton and know him on a personal level? None, the same cannot be said for O'Gara. That worries me.

RoryMc23

Healy

Aidric wrote: »

Because he made two kicks when the game was won?

They were perfectly struck and no flukes. Sexton said during the week that he had a problem but hes fixed it and the proof was today. Pressure wasn't the issue.

Dempsey

Sexton

RoryMc23 wrote: »

It's not bull, his kicking out of hand has been very poor so far. It was very notable against Australia and today it was no better. I was in the ROG camp but Sexton can kick again (he said in a recent article that he sorted out the problem during the week) and hes the better all round player.

Wales also know ROG very well.

RoryMc23 wrote: »

How many of them have trained with Sexton and know him on a personal level? None, the same cannot be said for O'Gara. That worries me.

RoryMc23 wrote: »

They were perfectly struck and no flukes. Sexton said during the week that he had a problem but hes fixed it and the proof was today. Pressure wasn't the issue.

One of the weakest argument possible imo

O'Gara is just as familiar with them, you didnt consider that

How do you prove that pressure wasnt an issue?

danthefan

Healy

RoryMc23 wrote: »

They were perfectly struck and no flukes. Sexton said during the week that he had a problem but hes fixed it and the proof was today. Pressure wasn't the issue.

Despite the fact the game was on there would have been plenty of pressure on him to make the kicks, because if he fluffed them he probably would be completely out of the running for the QF. His technique looks to be back to being spot on now.

phog

RoryMc23 wrote: »

How many of them have trained with Sexton and know him on a personal level? None, the same cannot be said for O'Gara. That worries me.

I seriously doubt it will worry the Irish management or squad and it certainly doesnt worry me.

ROG is a thorough professional and if Wales know anything about him from the training ground it can only be that they need to be worried when he's on the field, thay'll also be well aware that it was him that delivered the killer blow in Cardiff for Irealnd to eventually win the GS.

molloyjh

Healy

Aidric wrote: »

RoryMc23 wrote: »

Sexton seems to have put the kicking ghosts to bed

Because he made two kicks when the game was won?

Because he made two tough kicks and did so well. He missed one against Russia when the game wasn't a contest. He said himself he had identified the issue he was having during the week and has corrected it. All the evidence from today, including a very tough kick from the touchline, points to that being the case. Surely you WANT to see him on form, no? The more form players we have in the squad the better. You sound like you're not willing to even contemplate the possibility....

wandatowell

Healy

ROG is better so he starts

Fireball07

I was delighted when Sexton scored the 2 kicks, hit them perfectly.

ROG didn't really kick out of hand that much tbh, he put almost everything wide... he's a very good passer tbf and his kicking off the tee was top class.

I'd honestly be happy with either. I think we can win with either of them. But maybe Sexton for 60 minutes is right for Wales, with Rog to come on to finish it off.

But only if Kidney is sure that Sexton has got his kicking right. We can't afford to throw points away at all.

GerM

SOB

Anyone who doesn't think there was big pressure on Sexton's first kick is off their rocker. Every Irish player, fan and member of the coaching staff of the team was intensely watching that and we were all thinking the same thing: he has absolutely got to get this.

Anyway, regardless of how ROG played today or Sexton slotting kicks, Wales are a totally different proposition. They have a few things that we haven't faced before:
1. An openside. If we play like we did in the first half today, they'll beat us. Warburton will be waiting and it will be breakdown for dummies as he gets his hands on our ball. We went wide too early with no defenders sucked in up front and Earls was left with a hopeless scenario when he got the ball.

2. A 12 that can carry destructively at this level. Roberts will target the 10 channel. There's no doubt about that. It has to be considered.

Wales are very familiar with us. They know our team inside out and will have done all their homework. If ROG does start, he has to keep the ball in hand. His kicking from hand today wasn't great but for the most part he didn't kick which was good to see. The Welsh back three had a field day with him in the 6N and they know his kicking game inside out. They'll adjust accordingly. The call is literally fractional at this stage. There's arguments for both. At this point, if it ain't broke etc.

Regardless, it will be our pack that wins us if we're going to win not Sexton and not ROG.

justsomebloke

wandatowell wrote: »

ROG is better so he starts

This is an example of posts that will get this thread closed. If you have a point please explain it

Monty Burnz

jk86 wrote: »

Healy

Based on the huge downfield punt he put in against Italy, you could probably do worse.

GerM

SOB

chupacabra wrote: »

We ARE watching the same Tournament right?

I hope so. His kicking from hand has been nowhere near where it normally is. I think he put boot to ball three times today in midfield and failed to threaten touch. It's a little strange, ROG's kicking from hand is normally top notch and has been off this tournament. Sexton's kicking from the tee is normally top notch and has been off this tournament. Alas kicks from the tee are a lot more costly at the end of the day.