Deer letting in ISD. €6000???????

wirehairmax

I rang an ad in the Irish Shooters Digest today that was advertising a deer letting in West Wicklow. I nearly fell over when I was told the price. €6k for 200 acres of forestry and 200 acres of surrounding land. Not exactly a huge amount of ground and unknown quantity of deer. Is it just me or is that sort of money just mental to be paying for a bit of deer shooting. For the size of the ground, I would say there would be no room for more than 2-3 guns. That puts it at 2-3k per gun. Of course the landowner says theres loads of deer on it but I've been told that before and am forevermore sceptical when I hear that. He also told me the forestry is unshootable by the way as its so overgrown and dense. According to the landowner there is loads of interest in it from all over the country. I wished him best of luck with it and told him I wouldnt be parting with 6k for a few deer.
I also came across a similar situation recently. Another landowner looking for 1000 a gun but wouldnt commit to the number of guns on the let or produce the shooting rights or put anything in writing. Needless to say he didnt get any of my money. I knew the ground in question and while I know there was a few deer on it, I also knew there were others already shooting on it.
Its a sad day that landowners are getting so greedy. Bad enough having to bid for Coillte leases. Are lads really desparate and stupid enough to pay these crazy prices? I know there is supply and demand but surely this is just greed at its worst. If Revenue are after lads leaving in a few deer to the dealers, I wonder do they know about the money changing hands for the shooting?

tomcat220t

Fair play to the landowners if they find hunters who are willing to pay that sort of money for stalking ground:cool::cool::cool:. I only shoot for the freezer and am lucky enough to have as much good free stalking land ill ever need !The guys who are selling their deer for meat are no better than the farmers who have their hand out for good cash for shooting rights,imo.

wirehairmax

Never been to a dealer and dont ever see myself selling deer as I wont be shooting enough to sell. rather shoot just enough to feed myself and other family and friends.
At least that way my shooting is sustainable and I'm doing my bit to preserve the local deer population. I dont see the sense in shooting dozens of deer. Just greedy in my opinion.

moby30

I have to say I don't like the direction deer shooting is going in this country. The new buzz word seems to be "money". I've seen first hand how ruthless people are willing to get when it comes to making money out of this and where I'm all for young people getting Into this sport and would encourge them I just cringe when the first words are "I want to start selling them". Don't get me wrong Im not against people making a few bob out of it but when it's at the expense of someone else (like in my case)or it's a guy who is just going to shoot anything he sees or the new guy who doesn't know anything about the skills involved I think it's going to lead to even bigger problems in the future including an increase in poaching.

seoirse1980

moby30 wrote: »

I have to say I don't like the direction deer shooting is going in this country. The new buzz word seems to be "money". I've seen first hand how ruthless people are willing to get when it comes to making money out of this and where I'm all for young people getting Into this sport and would encourge them I just cringe when the first words are "I want to start selling them". Don't get me wrong Im not against people making a few bob out of it but when it's at the expense of someone else (like in my case)or it's a guy who is just going to shoot anything he sees or the new guy who doesn't know anything about the skills involved I think it's going to lead to even bigger problems in the future including an increase in poaching.

In my opinion, you should break even in this sport. You do a service for a land (forestry) owner. To keep the deer is payment enough. If the revenue from the deer sales covers the diesel and bullets then all is well.

If on some lets it does not well so be it, ye may have a surplus on another.

If everyone gets greedy, which is easy to do then there's no more sport!!!

arrowloopboy

Get used to paying lads,theirs alot of demand for stalking this year in Wicklow,and plenty of money around for it aswell.
The amount of decent Sika stalking lads are going to get for free or a bottle of whiskey at Christmas is gone very scarce.
Why should farmers part with their stalking for a guy to shoot his deers and head straight to Clane or Glenmalure with them ?
Give out and complain all ye like lads ,this is deer stalking not fox shooting,if you had something worth 3k would you part with it for a bottle of whiskey ?,and before anyone says they'd help out the farmer now and again, 3k or 4k buys lots of help.

fallowbuck

I aint surprized its going to be the ruin of the sport in the future. And only a sport if you have plenty a dosh and savage 4x4's ripping through the land so people can brag even more and hype up there ego's and ring there friend johnny I got this place aint i great and paid this much. I have well over 2000 acre's of deer shooting lands but hav'nt paid a penny and good land at that . 99% of people dont pay to shoot rabbits or dig foxes or shoot maggie;'s or grey so why label this sport "pay to shoot" but I fear for the future as word of mouth passes to each land owner how much one is making prices will double, treble like what was said 6000 for 200 acre for **** sake like whats going on seriously I just hope im wrong.

tfox

Coilte let a few friends of mine have and I used to be in is now €15k a year :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek:

Birdnuts

Crazy stuff - especcially given the fact that increasing numbers of farmers/foresters(in these parts anyhows!!) are only too happy to have someone cull burgeoning deer populations on their land for free!!:)

arrowloopboy

fallowbuck wrote: »

I aint surprized its going to be the ruin of the sport in the future. And only a sport if you have plenty a dosh and savage 4x4's ripping through the land so people can brag even more and hype up there ego's and ring there friend johnny I got this place aint i great and paid this much. I have well over 2000 acre's of deer shooting lands but hav'nt paid a penny and good land at that . 99% of people dont pay to shoot rabbits or dig foxes or shoot maggie;'s or grey so why label this sport "pay to shoot" but I fear for the future as word of mouth passes to each land owner how much one is making prices will double, treble like what was said 6000 for 200 acre for **** sake like whats going on seriously I just hope im wrong.

Fair play to you Fallow if you've 2000 acres for free ,good luck with holding on to those terms ,and to be fair ,you can't lump deer stalking in with rabbit shooting and anything to do with foxes.
You're also showing the classic Irish trait in your post ,Begrudgery,fair play to a man if he works hard,betters himself,can afford a big fcuk off 4x4,and a nice wood for himself and his friends to entertain themselves in when their not working,and paying taxes to keep the country afloat and the social welfare and public servants paid.

GixxerThou

arrowloopboy wrote: »

Fair play to you Fallow if you've 2000 acres for free ,good luck with holding on to those terms ,and to be fair ,you can't lump deer stalking in with rabbit shooting and anything to do with foxes.
You're also showing the classic Irish trait in your post ,Begrudgery,fair play to a man if he works hard,betters himself,can afford a big fcuk off 4x4,and a nice wood for himself and his friends to entertain themselves in when their not working,and paying taxes to keep the country afloat and the social welfare and public servants paid.

Here here..
Lots of people have free pheasant shooting and they dont complain about those who can afford driven shooting.. Its a case of supply and demand.. Deer stalking in Ireland has become a valuable commodity and obviously land owners and coillte are going to cash in on it. No point winging about it its just the way it is. So if ye want the best ground ye have to pay big money. I dont particularly like it cause I cant afford the expensive leases but nothin I can do about it!

323

moby30 wrote: »

I have to say I don't like the direction deer shooting is going in this country. The new buzz word seems to be "money". I've seen first hand how ruthless people are willing to get when it comes to making money out of this and where I'm all for young people getting Into this sport and would encourge them I just cringe when the first words are "I want to start selling them". Don't get me wrong Im not against people making a few bob out of it but when it's at the expense of someone else (like in my case)or it's a guy who is just going to shoot anything he sees or the new guy who doesn't know anything about the skills involved I think it's going to lead to even bigger problems in the future including an increase in poaching.

Agree, in my case was used to paying (a lot)when lived abroad for a number of years. Would pay if had to but feel sorry for those that do and would be reluctant to here as we have absolutly no protection from the wholesale poaching that has been happening this last few years. Elsewhere, in Europe and North America it is a serious crime, here it appears to be pointless reporting to Parks & Wildlife or the Garda.

moby30

It will be interesting to see how many people will stick at trying to make money out of it when the revenue start coming down on them. As I said before I don't mind anyone making money on it as a lot of the friends do and have been for years but with so many people trying to get into it in the last few years and more than likely because they lost jobs etc (and fair play to them) it has led to this as everyone is now trying to cash in. Whatever about commercial shoots though but when lads try takin other lads land by offering money that's crossing the line in my opinion. And there's no doubt it will lead to more poaching as some guys just won't have the money to pay. It's going to spiral out of control if it's not sorted soon. When I started shooting it was a sport- obviously some people don't see it this way and where it is possible to make money and keep it a sport it's heading down the commercial only root. Very sad and we can see the lads that are bringing it to this.

GixxerThou

moby30 wrote: »

It will be interesting to see how many people will stick at trying to make money out of it when the revenue start coming down on them. As I said before I don't mind anyone making money on it as a lot of the friends do and have been for years but with so many people trying to get into it in the last few years and more than likely because they lost jobs etc (and fair play to them) it has led to this as everyone is now trying to cash in. Whatever about commercial shoots though but when lads try takin other lads land by offering money that's crossing the line in my opinion. And there's no doubt it will lead to more poaching as some guys just won't have the money to pay. It's going to spiral out of control if it's not sorted soon. When I started shooting it was a sport- obviously some people don't see it this way and where it is possible to make money and keep it a sport it's heading down the commercial only root. Very sad and we can see the lads that are bringing it to this.

Hard to see the revenue coming down when the price in the game dealer has gone up 50c a kg this year Its things like that that has made farmers ground worth a lot of money. We had farm ground in wicklow for free and lads came in this year with an offer of €4000!! Now they will prob get their money back this year in venison but the area will be fooked then.. Cant really blame the farmer either, money + no deer = happy farmer in a lot of cases.

crackcrack30

I personally dont see the money in it if theres 2 people its split in 2, up early (or late:rolleyes:) licence fee/ ground let fee/rifle, bullets, no guarantee of game/shot, diesel, drive to let/permission and then drive back to game dealer........ I think theres a lot of hype/myth on these forums about the amount of money to be made......................I have no problem with a guy selling a couple/few to cover costs if hes inclined that way, but other than that i have to be convenced that theres mad money to be made if you were to break down the costs + hours basis ............

moby30

If you think the revenue are not going to crack down when you see prices like that and especially now when they are looking to get every single penny from wherever they can your in for a shock. Had an inspection myself this year and it was frightening what they were telling me. You must have had some land for those guys to go in and offer 4000 euros and your right the farmer couldn't be blamed for taking it but what if the revenue do come knocking on his door? And I can tell you from first hand experience it won't be just a matter of telling them how much you earned and pay your dues- but that said I presume everything was done above board by both partys and they have nothing to worry about-it's a pity to see you lose that land but if it was me I'd be staying in contact with that farmer and staying on his good side because I'd imagine some day he will want your Valuable services again.

poulo6.5

wirehairmax wrote: »

I rang an ad in the Irish Shooters Digest today that was advertising a deer letting in West Wicklow. I nearly fell over when I was told the price. €6k for 200 acres of forestry and 200 acres of surrounding land. Not exactly a huge amount of ground and unknown quantity of deer. Is it just me or is that sort of money just mental to be paying for a bit of deer shooting. For the size of the ground, I would say there would be no room for more than 2-3 guns. That puts it at 2-3k per gun. Of course the landowner says theres loads of deer on it but I've been told that before and am forevermore sceptical when I hear that. He also told me the forestry is unshootable by the way as its so overgrown and dense. According to the landowner there is loads of interest in it from all over the country. I wished him best of luck with it and told him I wouldnt be parting with 6k for a few deer.
I also came across a similar situation recently. Another landowner looking for 1000 a gun but wouldnt commit to the number of guns on the let or produce the shooting rights or put anything in writing. Needless to say he didnt get any of my money. I knew the ground in question and while I know there was a few deer on it, I also knew there were others already shooting on it.
Its a sad day that landowners are getting so greedy. Bad enough having to bid for Coillte leases. Are lads really desparate and stupid enough to pay these crazy prices? I know there is supply and demand but surely this is just greed at its worst. If Revenue are after lads leaving in a few deer to the dealers, I wonder do they know about the money changing hands for the shooting?

there is no need to pay for shooting in wicklow if you are willing to take the time out and knock on some doors, be friendly and you will be surprised how welcoming and friendly a farmer can be.

a couple of weeks ago i was working in dublin/wicklow mountains. i saw there were plenty of deer about so i drove up the hill from where i was working and knocked on the first door that looked like a farm house.
now i never met this man before but he brought me in and gave me dinner and a cup of tea as i explained to him who i was and where i came from and i told him i was in the area for a while and would it be ok to shoot on his land.
he was only delighted to show me his property and even took te time to show me where the deer would most likely be.

this is the result of being friendly and honest with people



this is the stag that tackleberrywho shot on my permission in wicklow mountains.

the farmer even allowed us to use his barn to hang the deer in .

on another evening while i was walking down the land to try for a fox that we saw the morning that we shot the stag, i met the farmer that owns the neighboring farm. and once i told him who i was and what i was doing there he told me to shoot away

so that was one knock on the door and 2 farms to shoot in a heavenly deer populated area.

why pay such enormous amounts of money for a sport that with a little friendly chat you can get for free and not only that they appreciated the fact that i was helping them to keep the numbers down

GixxerThou

crackcrack30 wrote: »

I personally dont see the money in it if theres 2 people its split in 2, up early (or late:rolleyes:) licence fee/ ground let fee/rifle, bullets, no guarantee of game/shot, diesel, drive to let/permission and then drive back to game dealer........ I think theres a lot of hype/myth on these forums about the amount of money to be made......................I have no problem with a guy selling a couple/few to cover costs if hes inclined that way, but other than that i have to be convenced that theres mad money to be made if you were to break down the costs + hours basis ............

Well say you spend €4000 on 360 acres of farmland and hill in very good area of wicklow thats surrounded by coillte woods. The area has been well managed for a number of years so deer numbers are good. Sub-let to 3-5 others at €600 - €800 a piece, bring in clients for maybe 6 trophy stags at prob €800+ each.. shoot 20-30 animals yourself over the season and summer on a section at an average of prob €50 an animal in the dealers. Then hand it back in a year or two when its worth nothin!

Grizzly 45

Wouldnt be too worried about the Numpties who think they are going to make a fortune out of harvesting deer,and lease a totally overpriced let or pay a farmer for the shooting rights.Then come in and shoot everything in a season and think it will be magically replaced by next season.

They are forgetting somthing important.Overdoing it will result in nothing,as you tip the balance.Overshoot the stags,you have no breeding potential.Overshoot the hinds or take out the calves likewise.
Nor will deer hang around a let if they are being continously disturbed by night and day by being jacklighted or stalked.They are not that stupid either!
So maybe somone forks out16k,gets a year or two out of it,and thats it..What now ...Pay another 16k or for an empty lease?? Off they go,and do it again somwhere else ,or hopefully quit as "theres no money in it!"

Shooting a let is alot more than just going out and blasting the area clean,if you want to have somthing next year as well.
You do need to plan a cull properly as to what is going to be culled and what can the lease take to survive.

FWIW ,if I was to take a let on at that kind of money.Id be asking for the following;

1] the returns of that let for the last lease time from an offical source.IE NPWS.That should be available info annd if not a FOIA request might help!
2] The address of the previous lease holder,and arrange to pay them a friendly visit for a chat over a pint and to ask why did they give it up?
It might be there are other underlying problems to the lease other than it is empty,and also ask to see if they have any racks or trophies from the lease??Every deer hunter I know will have a fine rack if they shot it over the mantelpiece.:D
3] Any head counts and previous cull figures.

4] One thing I would like to see here is a annual compulsory trophy display. Where every shot stag head is displayed either in skull or mount from all over the country.So everyone can see what is coming out of each county,be they good, bad, indifferent ,or record. It is also an important zoological record to show the different antler growth per area.
Brilliant trophies ,exellent and good .Could be awarded a certificate or small medal as well.

browning 12 bore

fare play to you fella i totally agree with you and to this day from this lad and that lad id say im in the neighbourhood of over 4000 acres approx and one or two farmers even very happy to ring me during the lambing season with foxs i was only too happy to help out 5 foxs in one field then during the deer season good few deer as well other few fields to shoot in as well

fallowbuck

GixxerThou wrote: »

Here here..
Lots of people have free pheasant shooting and they dont complain about those who can afford driven shooting.. Its a case of supply and demand.. Deer stalking in Ireland has become a valuable commodity and obviously land owners and coillte are going to cash in on it. No point winging about it its just the way it is. So if ye want the best ground ye have to pay big money. I dont particularly like it cause I cant afford the expensive leases but nothin I can do about it!

I just think if in the future if most shooting lands are being leased is it fare that the guy on low income has to sit back? Ok what can be done about it but his love for the sport is no less than anyone else's. Its a pitty i think.

bazza888

i dont know grizzly i bet lads who had shot the good heads would not turn up with them afraid of lads going poaching if the found out where the deer was shot

Deerspotter

fallowbuck wrote: »

is it fare that the guy on low income has to sit back? Ok what can be done about it but his love for the sport is no less than anyone else's. Its a pitty i think.

Isn't that usually the way though? The guys with the money have the most fun!
At least that is my experience in life.

BUACHAILL

GixxerThou wrote: »

Here here..
Lots of people have free pheasant shooting and they dont complain about those who can afford driven shooting.. Its a case of supply and demand.. Deer stalking in Ireland has become a valuable commodity and obviously land owners and coillte are going to cash in on it. No point winging about it its just the way it is. So if ye want the best ground ye have to pay big money. I dont particularly like it cause I cant afford the expensive leases but nothin I can do about it!

so your saying here here in one breath yet also saying you cannot afford it ?? bit stupid imo !!

Grizzly 45

bazza888 wrote: »

i dont know grizzly i bet lads who had shot the good heads would not turn up with them afraid of lads going poaching if the found out where the deer was shot

True enough ,but if you had to by law??And if you had been producing medicore heads and suddenly walk in with a massive beast that might have been watched by somone three counties over for the pre season??Questions might be asked as who,what,when??

GixxerThou

BUACHAILL wrote: »

so your saying here here in one breath yet also saying you cannot afford it ?? bit stupid imo !!

Im saying I cant but thats no excuse to moan about the people who can. I love driven pheasant shooting but I cant afford to spend €1200 a day to do it.. No point in saying its a rip off though and should be cheaper so Its open to me to do... Once guys with money are willing to spend big on sport then the rest of us are gonna be pushed out but thats just how it goes..

fallowbuck

But wouldn'nt it be great if all huntsmen could enjoy the one sport and not have it way one side the money side .We are'nt to bad now people can pay if they like and a fare percentage a people can get it for free of their local farmers but money is power in if the price goes up its possible that farmers may get drawn in more and more and even the average joe won't afford it for himself like he used to. I dont want to see it go that way for one.:(

LostCovey

Why shouldn't the landowner charge what the market will bear? If it is too dear, he will have no revenue from shooting and deer damage too!

The reason people are charging this is that they are getting it. Farmers have been mugs for years, letting people come in with thousands off euros worth of gear, shooting deer for free, and selling the deer on.

I applaud any landowner who realises the value of the resource they have and finds a way to turn it into cash.

OK some of the prices mentioned are a little steep, but I know two lads who get lower amounts than quoted above for shooting they used to give away. I personally think it is a pity to see foreign shooters paying for what locals used to get for free, but the locals didn't appreciate it. It doesn't take much bragging in pubs about venison sales to get people's backs up.

Good luck to any farmer with the cop-on to seek a share of the spoils.

LostCovey

fallowbuck

Were did ya get the idea locals dont appeciate there shooting lands?? I sure do and any knocked or damaged fencing ill fix it and help out if needed and the farmers appreciate it and in return some of them ring me as soon as they spot deer and i am greatfull for it .What ticks of the landowners is the guys at night lamping when not allowed, running sheep with dogs and so on. Its good to have this realtionship with the landowners my point is I just hope money never ruins it .They are intitled to the money no one is taking that away from them but from my side it saddens me.

Builderfromhell

I'm new to all still and as yet do not deer hunt.
But what I am wondering is, if someone who has been shooting deer for years and has built up an array of shooting equipment, clothing and a 4x4 suddenly finds he has to pay for permission while his own income is diminishing, would he not then be tempted to do a little poaching.

An experienced deer hunter is likely to know where deer will be, where they can be lamped and shot without disturbing anyone.

Alternatively, will the deer hunter who has less income but loads of skill and equipment just sit at home and watch the wealthy shoot what he used to shoot.

Deerspotter

Either you have ethics and integrity, or you don't. Money has little to do with it.

Grizzly 45

GixxerThou wrote: »

Im saying I cant but thats no excuse to moan about the people who can. I love driven pheasant shooting but I cant afford to spend €1200 a day to do it.. No point in saying its a rip off though and should be cheaper so Its open to me to do... Once guys with money are willing to spend big on sport then the rest of us are gonna be pushed out but thats just how it goes..

And those kind of prices still show the ripoff mentality that exists here.
I was considering getting my uncle and cousin over from Germany for a driven shoot of Irish pheasents this year.I was quoted somthing in this region for a day per person,less of course other hideen costs like cartridges,tipping all and sundry[EG dog men ,loaders,and whatnot].
dont get me wrong.I dont mind tipping anyone for service well provided,but I think a bit rich considering.What got me was the total archaic attitude and snobbery to the matter
.NO semi or pumps!!Whats the difference wether one shot comes out of a different barrel or two out of the same??:rolleyes::mad:.Dress code of shirt &tie and jacket!! Starting at a lesiurely and late 9:30 after breakfast.FFS.We are having breakfast in Germany at that time AFTER three hours of hunting already!!Finishing at 4:30 PM after two hours lunch in somones manor house!!
Sorry guys...I consider 1200 euros per person for that blatant rippoff.
This is what 1200 Euros gets us in Hungary..
One return flight Cork Germany 320 euros,fuel for drive to Hungary/Germany 100 euros appx per man.Overnite off peak rate in a 4star Budapest hotel 80 euros for 3nites per room. Three days pheasent shooting with appx two dogs and handlers and four beaters/picker ups, use of onsite transport[Former Sov GAZ AWD truck with command pod for transport] Couldnt care less what you shoot, or how you dress[pumps or semis,stuff them to capacity,as you will need them when 60/100 plus birds pass over you per drive about every 10mins].Lunch dinner and snacks included.Start at first light.[05:30 or thereabouts]. Appx a euro per bird,and you get the pick of those you want to take home,gutted and plucked as well.Laid out correctly at the end of the day as well for inspection in braces.
Excluding ammo So say around 800 euros for the whole weekend!!!
I hate to think what that would cost in Ireland.

Point I'm making is lads and lassies,is we are still ripping and being ripped off over here in the shooting world.Yes I know all about costs etc over here,but we need to start copping on with our prices in both offering and paying for lets,and more importantly NOT turning down busisness because of some archaic old ideas that belong in the 19th century,not the 21st!!
.Of course if some fellah comes running into your farmyard and offers you 4k to shoot an aul deer,are you going to refuse him??Farmers worldwide are cute hoors;):D and will know a good thing and how to milk it FWIW.
A man who offers you 4k this year will offer 6k next year!!

IOW it behooves us too to not pay over the odds either for lets be they state or private or commercial in our need to go hunting.If the farmer conviently down the road says 2k a year for a let,maybe the guy ten miles further will say its for free!!Lose abit on petrol,gain on selling a carcass.

16k for a deer let..I'd want to see some ginormous Red stags in that let! :eek:Or the potential of dropping one record holder per season,that you could sell to cover the lease !! FS for that money in Hungary or further East you would have at least two weeks hunting and living and the potential of shooting at least a 10kg trophy.Which is about a bronze or possibly silver over there.Hence the reason of the trophy show.You get to see if you are getting value for money in the lets as well by comparing the heads.
ripoff Ireland is still alive and well..Does it have to be in the hunting world too??:(

cavan shooter

A mate of mine has land in Sligo/Leitrim and only last month he was approached by a fella (from the eastern seaboard area of the Country) who started the conversation with "if you let me shoot dear on your land I'll give you €100 a year"

As a big shooting man himself he started to lead this guy along and asked why he felt he needed to pay for it, anyway he was looking for "sole rights" to the land. He laughed him away and asked him to come back with his insurance, and membership of an accredited shooting organisation. He hasn't come back since. Fact is and truth or not it is seen that money can be made shooting deer and selling it on. For the record 2 lads both have permission on his land for Deer shooting, I know that if he was to hear they were selling on the deer he would run them.

LostCovey

Builderfromhell wrote: »

I'm new to all still and as yet do not deer hunt.
But what I am wondering is, if someone who has been shooting deer for years and has built up an array of shooting equipment, clothing and a 4x4 suddenly finds he has to pay for permission while his own income is diminishing, would he not then be tempted to do a little poaching.

An experienced deer hunter is likely to know where deer will be, where they can be lamped and shot without disturbing anyone.

Alternatively, will the deer hunter who has less income but loads of skill and equipment just sit at home and watch the wealthy shoot what he used to shoot.

Builderfromhell,

I don't buy your argument that effectively deer shooting permissions should be given away to prevent poaching.

LostCovey

arrowloopboy

Builderfromhell wrote: »

I'm new to all still and as yet do not deer hunt.
But what I am wondering is, if someone who has been shooting deer for years and has built up an array of shooting equipment, clothing and a 4x4 suddenly finds he has to pay for permission while his own income is diminishing, would he not then be tempted to do a little poaching.

An experienced deer hunter is likely to know where deer will be, where they can be lamped and shot without disturbing anyone.

Alternatively, will the deer hunter who has less income but loads of skill and equipment just sit at home and watch the wealthy shoot what he used to shoot.

Isn't it funny how theirs no one on here kicking up a stink about having to pay for their shooting equiptment ,clothing and 4x4 ,yet they expect to get their stalking for free...........................only in Ireland:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D priceless,you wouldn't make it up.

GixxerThou

Grizzly, your not comparing like with like.. Its not just shooting in Hungary thats cheaper.. nearly everything is.. Ive spent a long time working on syndicate shoots here and I can tell you for a fact the money charged for a days shooting is only enough to cover the costs of running the shoot. Commercial shoots are different to a certain extent obviously.

moby30

What a stupid reply. Why would anyone give out about the price of their equipment-it's part and parcel of our hobby and sport and we needed it before there was any talk of the commercialisation of deer stalking. Did you ever hear of boys and their toys- you did enough bragging about your big mans .270 when you started slagging lads off about their "girls" .243 calibre. Then in this thread you say what about these lads that spend the money on a lett bring their friends out - make money - pay their taxes and help get this country out of the mess it's in- well how much vat do we pay when we buy all our shooting equipment - clothing and 4x4s add to this the vat and tax all the shops pay and I can guarantee it's multiples of what the others will pay. Take all this away if lads start losing this land and tell me how that's going to help the country? You mention the words begrugery and only in Ireland - well your moronic thoughts are what I'd say is "only in Ireland". The reason this country is f###ed is because of a couple of greedy ba####ds with money that messed everything up for the rest of us in Case you haven't noticed. You say you "wouldn't make it up" when you see someone that tries to justify this madness or a fellow shooter who would slag off anothers calibre choice well that's something you couldn't make up.
Just to clarify my position. I have no problem with anyone making money out of deer stalking. But some of the prices being mentioned are ridiculous and Getting worse.and when lads start losing land they have stalked for years because someone can make a few bob in the short term I am against that.

wirehairmax

arrowloopboy wrote: »

Isn't it funny how theirs no one on here kicking up a stink about having to pay for their shooting equiptment ,clothing and 4x4 ,yet they expect to get their stalking for free...........................only in Ireland:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D priceless,you wouldn't make it up.

I think you've missed the point here. Im not interested in having a row with you online so dont take anything I say to heart.
I dont expect anything for free. The ad in the ISD did say the land was for ''letting'' ie not free. I rang to enquire about the price, But seriously €6000? For such a small amount of land? It just doesnt equate to the ordinary shooter. It may appeal to the commercial hunters bringing truckloads of deer to the dealer or the ''guided tour operators'' here who are buying up land and selling the hunting to tourists with more money than sense. The other land I was offered recently, I proposed €1000 between 3 of us to have the shooting rights. That man wanted €1000 per man and wouldnt commit to the limit of shooters. I left it with him and let some other fool be parted from his money. Its not about getting land for nothing just the extortionate prices being charged and paid.
And before you ask, my shooting truck is a 1992 Hilux, I bought the cheapest gun (.243!!!) in the dealers and I dont dress to impress when out on the hill.

fodda

Moby it will help the country by people spending money wether it be internal dosh or external dosh thats how it works.

I was amazed when i came here that everybody just wanders around shooting, where i come from you have to pay for rough shooting as well as other types (rough shooting is just basically none game..walked up and usually sold to a group or syndicate who may also put down pheasants and partridge).

The farmer benefits by cash and if livestock a bit of fox/vermin control.

On game shoots lots of land is rented and a gamekeeper or two is employed so creating employment for a few people and part time beaters.

Deer stalking and grouse moors are mega bucks and employ quite a few people as land management comes in to this aswell.

The farmer/land owner gets cash and why not?

If you want land to shoot then pay for it.

It is the farmers/land owners land and they are entitled to do what they like with the sporting possibilities of it and nothing to do with anybody else.

Poaching has always been looked down on, it is not the romantic notion of a lively lad outwitting the lord and master after the odd pheasent or salmon. Poaching is basically theft.

arrowloopboy

moby30 wrote: »

What a stupid reply. Why would anyone give out about the price of their equipment-it's part and parcel of our hobby and sport and we needed it before there was any talk of the commercialisation of deer stalking. Did you ever hear of boys and their toys- you did enough bragging about your big mans .270 when you started slagging lads off about their "girls" .243 calibre. Then in this thread you say what about these lads that spend the money on a lett bring their friends out - make money - pay their taxes and help get this country out of the mess it's in- well how much vat do we pay when we buy all our shooting equipment - clothing and 4x4s add to this the vat and tax all the shops pay and I can guarantee it's multiples of what the others will pay. Take all this away if lads start losing this land and tell me how that's going to help the country? You mention the words begrugery and only in Ireland - well your moronic thoughts are what I'd say is "only in Ireland". The reason this country is f###ed is because of a couple of greedy ba####ds with money that messed everything up for the rest of us in Case you haven't noticed. You say you "wouldn't make it up" when you see someone that tries to justify this madness or a fellow shooter who would slag off anothers calibre choice well that's something you couldn't make up.
Just to clarify my position. I have no problem with anyone making money out of deer stalking. But some of the prices being mentioned are ridiculous and Getting worse.and when lads start losing land they have stalked for years because someone can make a few bob in the short term I am against that.

Re read post #35....slowly.

And as regards the country being fcuked because of a handfull of greedy bastards,there were lots of blocklayers,chippys,sparks,plumbers etc etc pulling 1500 a week,squandered it all and are now crying into their sturabout while blaming someone else.

Like it or not Deer stalking is a commodity,and like all commoditys,the pice is set by the laws of supply and demand........simples:D

arrowloopboy

wirehairmax wrote: »

I think you've missed the point here. Im not interested in having a row with you online so dont take anything I say to heart.
I dont expect anything for free. The ad in the ISD did say the land was for ''letting'' ie not free. I rang to enquire about the price, But seriously €6000? For such a small amount of land? It just doesnt equate to the ordinary shooter. It may appeal to the commercial hunters bringing truckloads of deer to the dealer or the ''guided tour operators'' here who are buying up land and selling the hunting to tourists with more money than sense. The other land I was offered recently, I proposed €1000 between 3 of us to have the shooting rights. That man wanted €1000 per man and wouldnt commit to the limit of shooters. I left it with him and let some other fool be parted from his money. Its not about getting land for nothing just the extortionate prices being charged and paid.
And before you ask, my shooting truck is a 1992 Hilux, I bought the cheapest gun (.243!!!) in the dealers and I dont dress to impress when out on the hill.

Max,that 250 acres might hold more deer than a wood of 3000 acres,its all according to how much wood its serviceing,don't automaticly think the bigger the wood the better.
The type of jeep/gun you have has nothing to do with me or anything to do with this discussion.

Regards..

wirehairmax

arrowloopboy wrote: »

Isn't it funny how theirs no one on here kicking up a stink about having to pay for their shooting equiptment ,clothing and 4x4 ,yet they expect to get their stalking for free...........................only in Ireland:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D priceless,you wouldn't make it up.

Youd want to read your own posts carefully, and dont be a smart arse. Try be a little more grown up in your replies to people who are trying to have a discussion.
Im not saying anymore to you as the Mods will be pissed off and close this thread. To others here, dont rise to this guys bait, only looking to stir ****

arrowloopboy

wirehairmax wrote: »

Youd want to read your own posts carefully, and dont be a smart arse. Try be a little more grown up in your replies to people who are trying to have a discussion.
Im not saying anymore to you as the Mods will be pissed off and close this thread. To others here, dont rise to this guys bait, only looking to stir ****

Not looking to be a smart arse nor stir sh1t Max,i'm just pointing out some very simple facts,it seems that some on here don't like faceing up to the fact that in the very near future,free stalking will be a thing of the past and the average price of a gun in Wicklow will be around a grand.

endasmail

arrowloopboy wrote: »

Re read post #35....slowly.

And as regards the country being fcuked because of a handfull of greedy bastards,there were lots of blocklayers,chippys,sparks,plumbers etc etc pulling 1500 a week,squandered it all and are now crying into their sturabout while blaming someone else.

Like it or not Deer stalking is a commodity,and like all commoditys,the pice is set by the laws of supply and demand........simples:D

what has got anything to do with an ad in the ISD?

sounds to me like your trying to pi*s off half the lads on hear

dCorbus

And as regards the country being fcuked because of a handfull of greedy bastards,there were lots of blocklayers,chippys,sparks,plumbers etc etc pulling 1500 a week,squandered it all and are now crying into their sturabout while blaming someone else.

Like it or not Deer stalking is a commodity,and like all commoditys,the pice is set by the laws of supply and demand........simples

A. Sorry, who the F**k do you think you are making sweeping statements like that? There's plenty of lads and ladies who were involved in the construction and related industries who did not earn anywhere near that sort of money, there's plenty who did and fair play to them (after all it's the law of supply and demand as you put it yourself), and there's plenty of others who did not squander their hard-earned wages....and we're all equally f*cked up the arse - And who the f**k is talking about blaming someone else? Which by the way, in case you hadn't noticed, it WAS SOMEONE ELSES FAULT! I don't think any first- or second-fix chippies removed the liquidity from our banks nor did they falsify their accounts nor did they collude with the regulators to avoid compliance with the financial and corporate governance guidelines and regulations. So do some of your fellow shooters a favour and take your head out of your arse! and

B. I think you'll find "deer stalking" is not a "commodity" - If you spent less time insulting half the lads on here and more time learning to use a dictionary you'd be some of the way there!

And BTW what do you do for a living? Banker, farmer, or civil servant, eh?

(Now, I await my infraction - and I'll gladly take my medicine, rather than let such a profounding insulting statement go unaddressed!)

Grizzly 45

GixxerThou wrote: »

Grizzly, your not comparing like with like.. Its not just shooting in Hungary thats cheaper.. nearly everything is.. Ive spent a long time working on syndicate shoots here and I can tell you for a fact the money charged for a days shooting is only enough to cover the costs of running the shoot. Commercial shoots are different to a certain extent obviously.

True it is cheaper as a country and no doubt it reflects in its shooting.However,maybe we would want to encourage people into the shoots here rather than discouraging them with silly outdated ideas.
That shoot lost now the possibility of between 2.5 to 3k worth of busisness,because of their ideas of what consists of a "sporting shotgun",and expecting people to appear in ridicilous get up.:rolleyes:
Nor do I feel the time is justified to the money and bag return of 600 to 800 birds possibly in one day.

800 euros divided by 600 birds equals 1.33 euros per bird.Estimating I shoot 75 birds thats 100 euros if I am doing this math right.What am I paying for a loader,dog man,beater use of a 4wd/tractor,dinner in somones house and appx 7hours worth of shooting on an average Novs day in Ireland where it is dark by 17:00 hrs appx after starting at 09:30 roughly??? It would be appx a tenner per bird here to justify the very steep prices..Now thats fine with the costs and all of things here,I understand that living here an all!!..But FFS you have to be offering more to get people into this than just aong dinner in the manor!! People who come to shoot dont see the behind the scenes costs of running the shoot,nor do they care really.They see the price of each bird,and what sort of an effort was put into getting it to be in front of their gun.You need to sell a bit more sizzle than sausage.Or alot of cheaper sausage.
Or somthing that really Wows them.

Ultimately my point is and not to be rubbing up the syndicate shoots amongst us!:) I was just using this example I had recently of how archaic ideas can really turn people off paying high prices for very little precived in returns.
Value for money is the watchword of the day now.If you have people willing to pay over the odds for nothing or of little value,then of course you will have people taking advantage of it and you. IOW we really have start looking at the potential value of gains and returns of paying 6k or16k for a shoot.Simply put if I pay that money singulary or as a group into a let..What do I get or can expect back for my money??

Birdnuts

All this talk of big money to hunt deer etc. makes me jealous of my cousins in OZ - there the government is actually paying ordinary hunters to take out everything from feral Camels to Water buffalo in order to save native flora/fauna!!:cool:

Vegeta

[Mod Hat ON]
Ok arrowloopboy I don't know are you being purposefully facetious/trolling or not but cut it out.

To the folks who replied harshly, play the ball, not the man.

Any more posts like those will be removed

[Mod Hat OFF]

If people want to discuss this ruling lets take it to PM

moby30

fodda wrote: »

Moby it will help the country by people spending money wether it be internal dosh or external dosh thats how it works.

I was amazed when i came here that everybody just wanders around shooting, where i come from you have to pay for rough shooting as well as other types (rough shooting is just basically none game..walked up and usually sold to a group or syndicate who may also put down pheasants and partridge).

The farmer benefits by cash and if livestock a bit of fox/vermin control.

On game shoots lots of land is rented and a gamekeeper or two is employed so creating employment for a few people and part time beaters.

Deer stalking and grouse moors are mega bucks and employ quite a few people as land management comes in to this aswell.

The farmer/land owner gets cash and why not?

If you want land to shoot then pay for it.

It is the farmers/land owners land and they are entitled to do what they like with the sporting possibilities of it and nothing to do with anybody else.

Poaching has always been looked down on, it is not the romantic notion of a lively lad outwitting the lord and master after the odd pheasent or salmon. Poaching is basically theft.

id love to see driven shoots, and and grouse moores take off here as im sure most people would fodda and im sure it would bring employment but if you read grizzly s post on the costs involved over here and the fact that hardly anyone has the money it just wouldnt be sustainable, dont know what country you came from but one of the great thing i always found about ireland was the fact that anyone could get involved in this sport without huge expense- fair enough though a few things could be tightened up like licencing etc. your right about it being nobodys business what the farmer takes or is offered and he cannot be blamed for taking money as im sure most people would but my problem comes from personal experience and involves people from an established commercial shoot and when i see the lengths they go to-to soak up all the shooting they can wether it be offering huge amounts of money or try to hang lads and get them thrown off permissions or in my case tried to get the garda and rangers onto me when they realised they had no chance of getting the land i look after. im not on a crusade because of what happened me but i see all this driven by a money hungry bunch. i have a lot of permissions over four counties and dont have to pay a penny and it was all got by reputation and the good work that i do. there is money to be made on deer and there always will i just dont want to see it get out of control at the expense of the ordinary decent hunter who still sees it as a sport.

Tackleberrywho

An expression that we have around here

"If you see an Ass, Ride it"


If folk want to pay for it, let them ;-)

Fair dues to the guys milking the cash cows.
The country is fecked so it won't last long before they want a better return on investment.

I wonder if I could sell some of my rabbit shooting on my Daddies farm?

meathshooter1

cant blame a farmer looking for extra cash.coilte will soon be sold after 23 years of not making a profit.its great that the new rules are in on game dealers might put a stop to the commercial shooter would love to see theres faces when they get a juicy fat tax bill,I only shoot for the pot on private land but have had leases in the past the cheapest €200 and the dearest €1500 a man which was well overrated,once bitten twice shy,shoot on good private land now that has been in the family 30years,the farmer makes the breakfast when we come back from stalking.he was approached to sell a number of time the stalking rights but he allways runs them