**Spoilers** Series 6, Episode 13 - "The Wedding of River Song"

pixelburp

I know there's already another episode 13 thread on the forum, but I figured it was better to have a new one, exclusively for the episode so people could post on the story itself, rather than the speculation in the other thread.

So ... here we are then: the last (series based) Doctor Who story until Autumn 2012, better enjoy it while it lasts so!

There are no clips that I know of (once again) and to be honest - I wouldn't post them even if I knew of them. I'm going to watch this as cold as possible, notwithstanding the rumours and mild spoilers leaked by the press.

roar_ie

The hardest thing will be staying out of this thread until Sunday morning when I have gotten to watch it. It's going to be a struggle

Really Really looking forward to this

Cookie33

Excellent! Although over now

As soon as I seen the people in the body i knew how he would survive..

rockmongrel

5 minutes left and a feeling of dread washes over me. "How could they wrap this up?" I thought to myself. "This is going to be terribly disappointing" I think. But god damn, that was good, and very entertaining.

DOCTOR WHO?

mawk

I kinda came in half way there. But I wasnt blown away. And the question is silly.

Yahew

Right, then.

I loved it. It looked awesome. Packed a huge amount in. There is always some Deus Ex Machina in these things. However

nobody predicted that substitution.

And it wrapped up all ( or most) remaining arc questions for this series.

That was mind boggling o.O

Yahew

rockmongrel wrote: »

5 minutes left and a feeling of dread washes over me. "How could they wrap this up?" I thought to myself. "This is going to be terribly disappointing" I think. But god damn, that was good, and very entertaining.

DOCTOR WHO?

I agree with that, the whole thing seemed to be churning along so fast and changing so many times that the wrap up wasn't obvious. Anyone feel there was a bit of a veiled attack on RTD with the "millions love you" malarky. Well that didn't save him this time, the doctor saved himself.

Yahew

Cookie33 wrote: »

Excellent! Although over now

As soon as I seen the people in the body i knew how he would survive..

sure, you did.

Killer_banana

Well that was not what I expected at all but absolutely brilliant. It shall be interesting seeing the doctor being quiet. As for the question, I guessed it partway through the episode but I still don't understand how it could bring 'silence'. After all River knows/will know the Doctor's name and that hasn't caused any problems. Or have I somehow completely misinterpreted those two words?

The volume was a bit weird for me, who had died in the nursing home? Or was it someone we hadn't heard of before?

garg

i'm sorry but that was terrible, no questions were answered instead it just wholes the size of trucks in the plot. It seemed a pretty pointless exercise.:mad:

Yahew

garg wrote: »

i'm sorry but that was terrible, no questions were answered instead it just wholes the size of trucks in the plot. It seemed a pretty pointless exercise.:mad:

Really - surely questions were answered.

Mahatma coat

it was The Brigadeer that died in the Nursing home.

I must have missed something, wha was the Question??

all in all a rather excelent episode.

Where is confidential tho, I know its been cancelled but I thought there would be one last episode, witht the miniepisode written bythe schoolkids

Craguls

I feel trolled.

Aldebaran

This is the first thing that occurred to me regarding the question:

The Doctor has been running around so long saving everyone that pretty much everyone knows who he is. The Silence are obviously sick of him and decide to get rid of him and they won't stop until they succeed. The Doctor's notoriety is his greatest weakness.

So the Doctor needs everyone to forget about him, so the Silence stop chasing him and he can stop running. He needs them to forget about him and when the day comes when they no longer remember him and literally have to ask 'Doctor who?' then they will fall, at the Doctor's hands presumably.

In a rather clever way, he is using the Silence's own weapon against them: the idea of not knowing who your enemy is, forgetting them.

I may be wrong but that's how I see it.

Mahatma coat

ah so that WAS the Question, I was wonderin about that.

Excellent twist so

Yahew

Come on iplayer, want to watch again.

They Still haven't answered why the TARDIS exploded in season 5...come on that was over a year ago now!

yaines

Cookie33 wrote: »

As soon as I seen the people in the body i knew how he would survive..

In fairness, I think we always knew he would survive-it was *how* that we didn't know.

I dunno... I think I'm still processing all that happened. I did enjoy it but so much for moffat saying we'd have all the questions answered. I mean, we still don't know what was in the doctor's room that time and what happened to the Silence... Are they gone now that they think he's dead? And why don't they want that question answered? I know that Silence will fall etc etc but why?

Still, at least we got all our River questions answered... even if it seriously creeps me out hearing her call Amy "Mummy"! It just seems wrong!

White Wolf Airsoft

That was a great Ep Massive Twist



..........................
Spoiler ALERT Spoiler ALERT
..........................

I was Expecting him to regenerate but no he had to have an Epic Badass idea and saved the day once again Gotta love matt smith glad he didnt Regen COME ON CHRISTMAS EP

Killer_banana

Aldebaran wrote: »

This is the first thing that occurred to me regarding the question:

The Doctor has been running around so long saving everyone that pretty much everyone knows who he is. The Silence are obviously sick of him and decide to get rid of him and they won't stop until they succeed. The Doctor's notoriety is his greatest weakness.

So the Doctor needs everyone to forget about him, so the Silence stop chasing him and he can stop running. He needs them to forget about him and when the day comes when they no longer remember him and literally have to ask 'Doctor who?' then they will fall, at the Doctor's hands presumably.

In a rather clever way, he is using the Silence's own weapon against them: the idea of not knowing who your enemy is, forgetting them.

I may be wrong but that's how I see it.

Ah I did misunderstand the question then. Not I get it. Very clever.

Aldebaran

Aldebaran wrote: »

This is the first thing that occurred to me regarding the question:

The Doctor has been running around so long saving everyone that pretty much everyone knows who he is. The Silence are obviously sick of him and decide to get rid of him and they won't stop until they succeed. The Doctor's notoriety is his greatest weakness.

So the Doctor needs everyone to forget about him, so the Silence stop chasing him and he can stop running. He needs them to forget about him and when the day comes when they no longer remember him and literally have to ask 'Doctor who?' then they will fall, at the Doctor's hands presumably.

In a rather clever way, he is using the Silence's own weapon against them: the idea of not knowing who your enemy is, forgetting them.

I may be wrong but that's how I see it.

You should send that to moffat. Great idea.

Also, I just got, 'the first question' 'the one that stares you right in the face' wasn't directed at the Doctor, but at all of us numpty's trying to second guess Moffat.
Bravo Sir. Bravo.

Cormic

Not really impressed with the episode. It just seemed too frantic. The entire series was asking questions that could not be answered in 60 minutes.

Is the Tesselecta a literal Deus ex machina?

Aldebaran

Deleted User wrote: »

You should send that to moffat. Great idea.

I'm assuming it was his idea and that's what he's going for with the whole 'question' thing!

One thing I learned: Moffat lies.

Penn

Anyone else get the impression that they're setting up the next regeneration? Dorium was saying something about the 'Fall of the 11th' and the question being 'Doctor Who?'. If the Silence kill the Doctor, then ask the question, the Doctor could regenerate into the 12th Doctor.

I liked the episode though. The Tessalect thing, even in the 'Previously...' bit was a bit of a giveaway, though I still thought that was a red herring and it'd be a Ganger Doctor, but still thought it was a great finale

waterglass305

I thought it was great, did not see the whole alternate universe thing.
It was good how they not only showed us what happens when you try to change a fixed point but an awesome new version of London.
I loved the trains in it.

As for the Doctor got out of dying I saw him using the Tessalect a mile away, the only question I had was if Moffet was going to use that something more complicated.
I don't mind him using the Tessalect because the episode was in fairness epic.

Also found the rest of the series brilliant, there were some moments in each episode that were bad or clique but it was very good overall, more good moments than bad.

That's my opinion anyway

Unless it was in the hypothesizing thread, i'm gonna take all the, 'yeah... Totally knew that was going happen' posts with a vast array of salt! :pac:

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar

that was the first ep of doctor who in a long time that I really really liked, except for the question

why does the new who insist on making the doctor the centre of ****ing *everything*? he's just a god damn random timelord who robbed a tardis and set off to have adventures, he is not a god and while he may be the point of the show he is not the point of existence.
new who needs to pull its head out of its ass.

--edit

also I did totally call the astronauts identity in the ep thread for the very first episode. nailed that one.

Yahew

Deleted User wrote: »

Unless it was in the hypothesizing thread, i'm gonna take all the, 'yeah... Totally knew that was going happen' posts with a vast array of salt! :pac:

Absolutely. Nobody ever mentioned the Tessalector on this forum ( or anywhere on the internet), until today, as a substitution ploy. Clearly the doctor was not going to die and there was going to be a substitution, or a reboot. If a sub, the obvious solution was a ganger, and Moffat left hints about that. Different jackets. etc.

The Tessalector never took on the doctor's form, unlike the ganger doctor. So all that was misdirection.

deconduo

I enjoyed it, tied most things up nicely. How the robot doctor could fake regeneration I don't know though.

Also Rory gets more badass with every episode

that kicked ass

and as a big david tennant fan i have to admit i love matt smith as the doctor

i was surprised the fake body could regenerate too? or at least look like it? or was that only in the first version?

aidan_walsh

he's just a god damn random timelord who robbed a tardis and set off to have adventures, he is not a god and while he may be the point of the show he is not the point of existence.
new who needs to pull its head out of its ass.

Or rather he was. Once. And now he is the last of a legendary race, and presumably very much more noticeable for it.

soups05

that episode blew me away, my explanation for the regeneration attemp is that the robot could look like him,why not be able to put on a show of regen.

through the season i jumped at different get out clauses, ganger doc,robo doc but i never really belived it, i was sure they would find a way to change the fixed point.

when river talked about a million voices asking to help i swear i teared up ffs. i guessed this would be like the whole martha walks the earth,people join in unison to give goodwill to the doctor thus saving him.

as for the question, how blind and dumb am i that i did not see that. at one point many years ago that was asked as often as the its bigger on the inside thing.

I usually avoid online forums about tv shows, ever since i got in a row about the colour of actors eyes in the star trek reboot. I never noticed shatners eye colour before ffs. forums tend to bring out the worst in picky,nerdy,have to find fault type posters and i perfer to just enjoy the show.

but this episode was just so good.

will wait a couple of weeks then back to the frist christopher ecclestone episode to rewatch it all from the start.I'm lucky enough to have a wife and children who love dr who as much as i do.

"doctor? doctor who?"

Also Starring LeVar Burton

I must admit that I had been struggling with the second half of this season - thought the majority of it was a bit 'meh', although I'd imagine a huge part of that was the fact I viewed every episode just the once and was often distracted while they were on, but that finale was awesome...
I'll have to rewatch the whole series and hopefully on a second viewing it'll grab my attention more - I'm sure I didn't pick up on a lot of important things...

Sudden Valley

I think that's the most enjoyable season finale I've seen in a long time. Last year's one was so complex I wasn't sure if it made much sense but the twist this year was ingenious and made sense. Also like the way they finally had Amy acknowledge the hurt caused by losing her baby. I presume that Madame Kovarian is still alive after this episode?

Cookie33

Sudden Valley wrote: »

I think that's the most enjoyable season finale I've seen in a long time. Last year's one was so complex I wasn't sure if it made much sense but the twist this year was ingenious and made sense. Also like the way they finally had Amy acknowledge the hurt caused by losing her baby. I presume that Madame Kovarian is still alive after this episode?

When Amy was talking to River, she mentioned that she was ashamed of herself or that the Doctor wouldn't like her because she "killed Madam Kovarian in cold blood" - quoted by Amy. Although saying that we didn't see her die, she could have just suffered when the eye patch was put back on.

The Master

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar wrote: »

he's just a god damn random timelord

No he isn't, in "Remembrance of the Daleks" the Doctor refers to himself as

"far more than just another Time Lord"

He was also elected President of the Time Lords at one point

The Mad Hatter

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar wrote: »

why does the new who insist on making the doctor the centre of ****ing *everything*? he's just a god damn random timelord who robbed a tardis and set off to have adventures, he is not a god and while he may be the point of the show he is not the point of existence.

Moffat has said in the past that the biggest problem with Doctor Who is the fact that someone who does as much as the Doctor has done over 700 years is going to get noticed, and become notorious, after a while. He's made the Doctor the centre of everything so that he could focus on the Doctor's fame, and then deal with it as he has done over this series.

Really enjoyed that episode. I thought I'd be let down by it not being the Doctor who was shot on the beach, but I didn't feel that. It was dealt with very well.

Moffat's wrapped up a lot of what he's been working on since River Song's first appearance, but not everything, and I'm looking forward to finding out where he goes over the next few series.

Penn

Cookie33 wrote: »

When Amy was talking to River, she mentioned that she was ashamed of herself or that the Doctor wouldn't like her because she "killed Madam Kovarian in cold blood" - quoted by Amy. Although saying that we didn't see her die, she could have just suffered when the eye patch was put back on.

River said after that it was an alternate timeline, then Amy says that she still remembers it. So I think she's still alive as what Amy did didn't really happen, but they'll all remember it happening

DirtyBollox

Fantastic episode, didnt see the tessalect switcharoo happening but for some reason i had the feeling the doctor would pop his head around after he walked off the first time. i think i was expecting a cheeky doctor 1 liner.

Cant remember who it was but someone guessed about the eye patch. Good call whoever it was.

And i kicked myself for not getting the question before now.

Cyndaquil

Good episode. I'll admit I wasn't over enamoured by "the alternate universe where all time is one" thing, but it's nice to have a happy finale ending now and then.

As for the Teselacta, when I heard the captain ask the Doctor was there anything they could do I did wonder for a second, but dismissed the thought, I mean, the Doctor disguise himself as a robot, please... which made the reveal all the more great!

Nice to see Dorium make a return, along with the reference to Jack. I suppose the Rose reference was a nice touch but, meh. I wasn't around for the original (pre 1989) run but all the same it was nice the way they acknowledged the Brigadier's passing, I suppose in a way even though he wasn't there this kind of gave strength/inspiration to the Doctor, if one of his old friend's can face death then why not he?

The Dalek's appearance seemed kind of forced, was there not some rumour that they have to "appear" once a season due to some contractual agreement (like their appearance in one of the 2009 specials)? I also thought the Doctor trading in a Dalek eyestalk was a bit out of character.

The "fall of the eleventh" thing is intriguing. I presume this is a prelude to the eventual demise of the current Doctor - I read in an interview that Moffat has a very vague idea of how 11 might die... I've mixed feelings though, I mean, Matt Smith isn't even two years in the role... I'd like him to get longer than Tennant, not out of any hatred towards Tennant (I like him too) but just to mix it up a bit. We know there's a season 7 to follow, if were to go out in season 8 (unless they just to a few specials for the anniversary, which I wouldn't like, but that's another story), then his tenure would be very similar to that of Tennant's, I don't think it would be great if a precedent was set up (a Doctor's tenure equals three and a half seasons). But as I said, I just think it's too early to be setting up the show for 11's eventual death/regeneration. The guy's barely in the door. Unless of course is death won't occur for another three or four seasons. Of course, "the fall" doesn't necessary have to mean 11's death, though I suspect it does.

Overall, a great season, but it will be nice to get back to standalone adventures as of old (though perhaps with the occasional plot thread hinted at now and then).

Yahew

Yeah, they have struck gold with this Matt Smith chap. Frankly the companions are great too. Keep the companions for a year, and Matt for two at least.

pwwillia

The scene with the Silence taunting Rory was pretty cool. Also the the fact that River broadcasted a distress signal for help throughout time would lead to the question being asked by cultures who didnt have contact with him, who is the doctor?.

really marching now towards the next season and the anniversary.

DirtyBollox

oh yeah almost forgot Rory and his badass-ness again! what with the whole eye patch activating for him and it doesn't affect him too much until it ramps up the power. after that display i don't think it would be fair to kill him off as regularly now.

pixelburp

Hmmm, so I guess that's that then - the doctor is now technically dead to the universe & he can go back to simply trotting around the universe as a silly little man in a blue box. Leastways I hope so because after this finale I've had just about enough of The Doctor as legend. It never got as bad as some of the scenary-chewing Tennant & RTD indulged in a few years back, but it was just getting a wee bit too much & I'm hoping the Doctor is now parked back into the shadows a little.

Though speaking of legends - I can't believe after this series anyone would still find themselves not liking Matt Smith as the Doctor. Particularly anyone who felt the man didn't have the acting chops to handle pathos and tragedy as well as his predecessors. When I'm not laughing at his clowning about, I'm moved as we watch his two hearts break (that moment when he tries to ring The Brigadier - I admit it, it left a lump in my throat).

As for the final revelation - I'd like to think I was partially right - I figured it would either be a duplicate or a second Doctor would be the one to take the hit. The two sets of coats made me think it'd be a second version, but I guess it was classic fan misdirection this time. I must admit I didn't think it would be the Bo'selecta that would ultimately pose as the Doctor (oh and I think considering it can fake itself as a person easily enough, some sparkly lights to fake a regeneration would have been childsplay)

As it stands though, I'm actually a little bit of a loss as to what to make of yesterday's episode; I think I enjoyed it, but I'm left with a strange taste in my mouth at the end of it all. I think how I'm feeling was described by Robert Louis Stevenson that "To travel hopefully is a better thing than to arrive". Building up to the climax was an event in itself, and now that we're finally here and the answers (most of them) are given to us, I feel a little deflated by a sense of anticlimax. Maybe it's because after all the promise & speculation, there was no grand twist or last-minute reveal. It all played out quite... safely really.

Roll on Christmas and the new arc for season 7. I presume the Silence are now the De Facto enemy of Doctor Who because they're not defeated by any stretch and Madam Sneery McEyepatch is still alive in the "proper" reality.

Doctor Who? indeed. Moffat ye cheeky fecker.

K-9

I'd forgotten how gorgeous Karen is, Wow!

Didn't think it was that great first time but after watching it again, it got better. Rory was very good, River less annoying than recently and some funny scenes, the self depreciating humour really suits Matt, he's really growing into it and making it his own.

aidan_walsh

Was wondering a little earlier - given that the First Question clues were aimed more at us than at the characters in show, is this the first time that the Whoniverse has canonically chipped at the fourth wall as well as the fourth dimension? Can't remember another instance of it.

pixelburp

aidan_walsh wrote: »

Was wondering a little earlier - given that the First Question clues were aimed more at us than at the characters in show, is this the first time that the Whoniverse has canonically chipped at the fourth wall as well as the fourth dimension? Can't remember another instance of it.

Off the top of my head, I think the show has broken the 4th wall twice - the first time very delibrately back in the 60s during William Hartnell's run: during an episode (aired over the Christmas period), the Doctor turned to the camera & wished the audience a Happy Xmas. I also believe there was one time during Tom Baker's run where he spoke to the camera, I think it was something about being in bother even he can't get out of.

rockmongrel

pixelburp wrote: »

Off the top of my head, I think the show has broken the 4th wall twice - the first time very delibrately back in the 60s during William Hartnell's run: during an episode (aired over the Christmas period), the Doctor turned to the camera & wished the audience a Happy Xmas. I also believe there was one time during Tom Baker's run where he spoke to the camera, I think it was something about being in bother even he can't get out of.

Also, if you're counting the charity episodes et al. as part of the canon, I would say the fourth wall has been broken quite a few times.