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Garda Pension

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  • 30-09-2011 11:08am
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 3,883 ✭✭✭


    There is talk of the pension age being upped to 68 for public servants, how will this affect Gardai who will reached 55 but less than 68 having completed their 30yr contract?

    Will they have to continue in the gardai till they reach 68, or will they be income free between the ages of 55 and 68.?
    (assuming that one retires having completed the 30yr contract)


Comments

  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,451 ✭✭✭Delancey


    I'll stand corrected if what I'm saying is inaccurate but my understanding is that the new pension arrangements will only apply to new entrants to AGS and arrangements for existing members remain unchanged ( bar the pension levy of course ).
    It's a safe bet IMO that the idea of full pension after 30 years service is history.
    Doubtless someone here will know for sure.


  • Registered Users Posts: 15,127 ✭✭✭✭kerry4sam


    Delancey wrote: »
    I'll stand corrected if what I'm saying is inaccurate but my understanding is that the new pension arrangements will only apply to new entrants to AGS and arrangements for existing members remain unchanged ( bar the pension levy of course ).
    It's a safe bet IMO that the idea of full pension after 30 years service is history.
    Doubtless someone here will know for sure.

    Yeah I was of the belief also that it would apply to new entrants only.


    /things could change in a week though!


  • Registered Users Posts: 435 ✭✭Tango Alpha 51


    Can you picture a member of AGS or a paramedic crewing a frontline vehicle at 68!!!!??. Beggars belief that the government are really considering implementing this. There is no way the majority of us will still be able to carry out our duties simply from a physical point of view at that age.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,451 ✭✭✭Delancey


    buzzman wrote: »
    Can you picture a member of AGS or a paramedic crewing a frontline vehicle at 68!!!!??. Beggars belief that the government are really considering implementing this. There is no way the majority of us will still be able to carry out our duties simply from a physical point of view at that age.

    + 1 . I don't think anyone expects 68 year olds to be in frontline ES work .
    As I understand it the current pension arrangements for AGS take account of the fact that it's not realistic to expect 60 - 65 year olds to still be working - hence the situation that sees retirements of people in their early 50's. I would expect the new arrangements will allow for retirement before 68 but by the same token I think retirements at , say , 52 years of age will end ( for new entrants ).
    The sooner the pension alterations are confirmed the better because while question marks remain I can't see the Dept of Finance approving fresh recruitment.


  • Posts: 23,339 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    buzzman wrote: »
    Can you picture a member of AGS or a paramedic crewing a frontline vehicle at 68!!!!??. Beggars belief that the government are really considering implementing this. There is no way the majority of us will still be able to carry out our duties simply from a physical point of view at that age.

    Plenty of roles in AGS can be carried out by fit and well folk in their 60s, loads of clerical work etc. No need to have them in a frontline vehicle. Paramedics are a different kettle of fish.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,970 ✭✭✭Paulzx


    RoverJames wrote: »
    Plenty of roles in AGS can be carried out by fit and well folk in their 60s, loads of clerical work etc. No need to have them in a frontline vehicle..


    But hasn't the political policy over the last few years been to force members of AGS out of these positions and to have them taken up by civiian administartion staff?

    Which is it? Gardai do them or civilians do them? Your suggestion is directly against the policy that is now supposedly the best use of resources


  • Posts: 23,339 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Paulzx wrote: »
    But hasn't the political policy over the last few years been to force members of AGS out of these positions and to have them taken up by civiian administartion staff?

    Which is it? Gardai do them or civilians do them? Your suggestion is directly against the policy that is now supposedly the best use of resources

    Call into your local Garda station to get your declaration witnessed for motor tax, it's not a civilian that does it ;)
    Folk in their 60s can perform random breath testing etc too, plenty of more duties too.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,451 ✭✭✭Delancey


    Paulzx wrote: »
    But hasn't the political policy over the last few years been to force members of AGS out of these positions and to have them taken up by civiian administartion staff?

    Which is it? Gardai do them or civilians do them? Your suggestion is directly against the policy that is now supposedly the best use of resources

    Hit the nail on the head there ! While no doubt a 65 year old Garda could work in for example a Summons or Warrants Office , the question has to be asked is this a wise use of resources given that a Garda of that age is at the very high end of the incremental scale whereas a civilian could be employed for half that amount ?

    No doubt many Garda duties could be civilianised / outsourced , why Gardai still provide gate security at Harcourt Square or Phoenix Park seems strange when you consider New Scotland Yard has had civilian security doing that since the 1970's :rolleyes:


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,957 ✭✭✭Hooch


    RoverJames wrote: »
    Call into your local Garda station to get your declaration witnessed for motor tax, it's not a civilian that does it ;)
    Folk in their 60s can perform random breath testing etc too, plenty of more duties too.

    Yes.....thats because (1) - only Gardaí can sign these forums like passport etc as per legislation and (2) civilians can only do so much......if you rang a Garda station for advise on a situation would you like to talk to a civilian same as yourself or a Garda??? Civilians took 99% of the jobs they could.......public officer is not one of those jobs.

    Gardaí....in their 60s.....preforming RBT checkpoints.....are you for real?? Are you seriously thinking about this?? What happens when the driver becomes aggressive?? Drives off or towards the member.....their reactions would be alot slower.......

    What happens in 40 years when there is 4/6 thousand 60 year old members......how will be find nice safe jobs for all those??


  • Posts: 23,339 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    NGA wrote: »
    Yes.....thats because (1) - only Gardaí can sign these forums like passport etc as per legislation and (2) civilians can only do so much......if you rang a Garda station for advise on a situation would you like to talk to a civilian same as yourself or a Garda??? Civilians took 99% of the jobs they could.......public officer is not one of those jobs.
    Excellent, let some of the older ones do the roles I have mentioned ;)
    NGA wrote: »
    Gardaí....in their 60s.....preforming RBT checkpoints.....are you for real?? Are you seriously thinking about this?? What happens when the driver becomes aggressive?? Drives off or towards the member.....their reactions would be alot slower.......
    Many RBT checkpoints have more than two Gardai, having a Garda in their 60s at one wouldn't be an issue. An able bodied 60 odd year old who has been active and kept off the doughnuts would be quite fit. There are folks in their 60s training in martial arts.
    NGA wrote: »
    What happens in 40 years when there is 4/6 thousand 60 year old members......how will be find nice safe jobs for all those??

    Not every Garda will hang around, much like in every other job, leave early and start claiming your pension you get a reduced amount. As folk get older their expenses are not as high.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 8,451 ✭✭✭CharlieCroker


    RoverJames wrote: »
    Excellent, let some of the older ones do the roles I have mentioned ;)


    Many RBT checkpoints have more than two Gardai, having a Garda in their 60s at one wouldn't be an issue. An able bodied 60 odd year old who has been active and kept off the doughnuts would be quite fit. There are folks in their 60s training in martial arts.



    Not every Garda will hang around, much like in every other job, leave early and start claiming your pension you get a reduced amount. As folk get older their expenses are not as high.
    Are you for real, it's quite obvious you have NO idea of half the things a member of AGS does. Is it fair to make a 68 year old work a week of nights. I find that hard enough and I'm under 30! Saying they can do certain jobs and not others is wrong. You reckon an elderly member should be in the station the whole time, that means other younger members are on the beat/on a post/ in a patrol car the whole time. I'd love to hear your suggestions on how those members are supposed to investigate crime and find the time to do the files relating to these. They can't just come in and do them, that's part of what being on station duties is about, doing paperwork in between answering the phone and signing forms.

    As for having a 68 year old grandmother standing IN THE MIDDLE OF THE ROAD at 2am stopping traffic is just dangerous in my opinion. Regular Gardai HAVE to retire at the moment at the age of 60 regardless of amount of service, with good reason in my opinion. to put it bluntly, the majority are beyond the physical demands of the job.

    I'm also of the opinion that at that age, they deserve their retirement having dealt with 30 years of junkies, violent prisoners, sudden deaths, fatal and serious injury road traffic accidents and the othe joyful parts of the job.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,451 ✭✭✭Delancey


    The biggest change to the Garda pension scheme is that it will cease to be a ' final salary ' scheme whereby at the moment the pension is based on what the member was earning at the time of taking retirement.
    It will change to being a scheme where the pension is based on average earnings over their career , for example a Superintendents pension will not be based on a Superintendents salary as is currently the case.

    Another very significant change is that the ' link ' between pensions and current salaries will be broken , this means the situation where a retired Garda could theoretically earn more in pension than they did when working will cease.

    Despite these changes ( which apparently will not apply to existing members ) the Garda pension will be far more attractive when compared to what the majority of private sector employees can expect.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,341 ✭✭✭mullingar


    @ roverjames

    from your comments above, it is clear that you have no idea what the average day is for a guard.

    i would say that a small percentage is spent behind the counter and every active guard has to be physically fit and expected to be able to assist a fellow guard to restrain a hyped up teenager. How many 60+ year old do you know are able to restrain anyone?

    I'm a member of the public sector (ex private sector) and I would not see any of the sh1t that's thrown at the guards.

    I think its time to get off your high horse and see what the actual AGS jobs requirements are before you give an opinion.


  • Posts: 23,339 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Well lads, we'll see what happens, lol at the claims of fitness etc, the amount of obese and lacking in stature gardai out there is alarming, particularly amongst the females. For Gardai what is the current regime on routine fitness testing??? (I don't expect anyone will answer that) I don't expect the patrons of this forum to agree, ye all want to p1ss off and retire after 30 years full service. A total reform of existing rostering etc needs to be done.

    Of course I have been accused of saying the 68 year olds should be on the street and doing a week of nights :rolleyes:

    I know quite a few folk who are over 60 who are well able to handle themselves, to a level far greater than a few hours batton training in Templemore provides.

    Typical Gardai reckoning ye are Jackie Chan hard men, the average Garda couldn't drop a hard sh1t unless they have taken up some extra training on their own time.


  • Registered Users Posts: 435 ✭✭Tango Alpha 51


    & so your true colours have become apparent. An anti ES keyboard warrior who has to resort to passing disparaging comments about ES personnel because you didn't/don't get the answers your looking for. Your petulant, rude & condescending to the majority of ES board users with your last post!!!.


  • Posts: 23,339 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    buzzman wrote: »
    & so your true colours have become apparent. An anti ES keyboard warrior who has to resort to passing disparaging comments about ES personnel because you didn't/don't get the answers your looking for. Your petulant, rude & condescending to the majority of ES board users with your last post!!!.


    Yeah, I was the first one to be petulant & condescending.......
    Paulzx wrote: »
    ..............
    Which is it? Gardai do them or civilians do them? Your suggestion is directly against the policy that is now supposedly the best use of resources
    NGA wrote: »
    ..............
    Gardaí....in their 60s.....preforming RBT checkpoints.....are you for real?? Are you seriously thinking about this??
    Are you for real, it's quite obvious you have NO idea of half the things a member of AGS does. .................
    mullingar wrote: »
    ..................I think its time to get off your high horse and see what the actual AGS jobs requirements are before you give an opinion.


    Any news on a reply for the routine fitness requirements for a serving Garda ;)

    If ye reckon over 60s aren't up to it surely the under 60s are being regularly assessed to ensure they are still capable of passing the entry requirement?

    I am far from anti ES too btw, I had an uncle a FireMan and a few folk I know over the years are Gardai and Firemen.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,195 ✭✭✭goldie fish


    RoverJames wrote: »
    I am far from anti ES too btw, I had an uncle a FireMan and a few folk I know over the years are Gardai and Firemen.

    I once saw an astronaut at a book signing, but it doesn't make me qualified to comment on his wage and pension conditions.


  • Posts: 23,339 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    I once saw an astronaut at a book signing, but it doesn't make me qualified to comment on his wage and pension conditions.

    Oh how witty.

    Where have I commented on the wage conditions of anyone in here?
    (No answer will be forthcoming I imagine)
    Also, you don't need to be qualified to make a comment.

    Who, by your reckoning is qualified to speak in this thread? (Again, I don't expect an answer) According to the charter anyone can.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,957 ✭✭✭Hooch


    RoverJames wrote: »
    Any news on a reply for the routine fitness requirements for a serving Garda ;)

    If ye reckon over 60s aren't up to it surely the under 60s are being regularly assessed to ensure they are still capable of passing the entry requirement?

    I am far from anti ES too btw, I had an uncle a FireMan and a few folk I know over the years are Gardai and Firemen.

    No....no answer for you....I decided after your second post you were trolling and I generally dont reply to Trolls unless its in bold writing (like this)
    RoverJames wrote: »
    Who, by your reckoning is qualified to speak in this thread? (Again, I don't expect an answer) According to the charter anyone can.

    Not necessarly......the charter clearly states that you should have an interest in ES (other than trolling it)
    This forum is for the discussion of emergency services in general and is open to all posters, whether they are serving / former members of an emergency service, prospective members or just have an interest. That said, if a member makes false claims as to their membership of a service this will result in an immediate and permanent ban.

    RoverJames wrote: »
    Well lads, we'll see what happens, lol at the claims of fitness etc, the amount of obese and lacking in stature gardai out there is alarming, particularly amongst the females. For Gardai what is the current regime on routine fitness testing??? (I don't expect anyone will answer that) I don't expect the patrons of this forum to agree, ye all want to p1ss off and retire after 30 years full service. A total reform of existing rostering etc needs to be done.

    Of course I have been accused of saying the 68 year olds should be on the street and doing a week of nights :rolleyes:

    I know quite a few folk who are over 60 who are well able to handle themselves, to a level far greater than a few hours batton training in Templemore provides.

    Typical Gardai reckoning ye are Jackie Chan hard men, the average Garda couldn't drop a hard sh1t unless they have taken up some extra training on their own time.

    I was going to highlight the trolling aspects of the above post but I dont think there is any need really.

    "Lol at the claims of fitness.....piss off after 30 years......average garda couldnt drop a hard sh1t......."

    RoverJames you are infracted for breach of the forum charter by using bad language.

    Further to that you are banned from the ES forum for two weeks for trolling the ES forum. The comments and attitude in your post may be acceptable in other forums but this is an ES forum, full of ES personnel and those with an interest......your only obvious reason for posting is to troll the thread.

    If you decide to repost after your ban please do so without trolling or it will become a perma ban.

    Thanks

    NGA


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 11 Chusko


    http://www.kildarestreet.com/wrans/?id=2011-09-21.1039.0&s=garda+retirement


    Looks like maximum age will be 60 for gardai,have to retire then


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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,455 ✭✭✭FGR


    Chusko wrote: »
    http://www.kildarestreet.com/wrans/?id=2011-09-21.1039.0&s=garda+retirement


    Looks like maximum age will be 60 for gardai,have to retire then

    From that page

    "Of course members with 30 years service may retire on a full pension at any time once they reach 50 years of age, for those who joined prior to 2004, or 55 years of age for those who joined since then."

    This is the first I've read of the 55 years minimum retirement age for those who joined after 2004. No mention of it on the GRA site either.

    Can anyone clarify?


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,883 ✭✭✭pa990


    From that page

    "Of course members with 30 years service may retire on a full pension at any time once they reach 50 years of age, for those who joined prior to 2004, or 55 years of age for those who joined since then."

    This is the first I've read of the 55 years minimum retirement age for those who joined after 2004. No mention of it on the GRA site either.

    Can anyone clarify?

    my understanding always was that we could retire after a minimum of 30years service, provided you have reached the age of 55.
    ie, the optimum age to enter T'more would be 24yrs

    The first year of training isnt counted for pension purposes, thus your service would start at 25yrs.
    25yrs old +30 yrs service = 55

    so the guys that were attested at 20yr's old would have to work for 35 years.

    hope that makes sense


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 11 Chusko


    Thanks Pa,so just to clarify as you say the first year of training doesn't count towards pension but the second year of training before you attend your graduation does,good to know.


  • Posts: 23,339 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Hi all, I just popped in as my ban expired over the weekend. I'd like to apologise to those folk I offended with my comments/trolling. I didn't post with regard for the audience of this particular forum. I apologise for that.


  • Registered Users Posts: 995 ✭✭✭PeteK*


    If someone joins between the ages of 30 and 35, and has to retire at the age of 60 (compulsory?), does it mean they do not qualify for the garda pension? I'm asking because I don't know if it's 30 years of service that entitles you to the pension.


  • Registered Users Posts: 433 ✭✭Lmklad


    PeteK* wrote: »
    If someone joins between the ages of 30 and 35, and has to retire at the age of 60 (compulsory?), does it mean they do not qualify for the garda pension? I'm asking because I don't know if it's 30 years of service that entitles you to the pension.

    The person will serve 30yrs and retire at 60. So if the person joins at 35 they will pay a little extra towards their pension over the course of their service to make up the outstanding 5 years.


  • Posts: 14,344 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    What is the actual, net, per week, pension?

    Can you actually comfortably live on it, or are you gonna be doing door work at the weekends to make up for not actually working anymore?

    30 years service seems relatively fair, to me, considering the actual job of a Garda. I'd imagine the majority of Gardai would be burned out by the time 30 years rolls around, anyway? (and, if they had any sense, probably hold a deep passionate hatred for the general public :P ).


  • Registered Users Posts: 991 ✭✭✭Leo Demidov


    Lmklad wrote: »
    The person will serve 30yrs and retire at 60. So if the person joins at 35 they will pay a little extra towards their pension over the course of their service to make up the outstanding 5 years.

    With 25 years service one would have thirty years worth of pension contributions as you pay double after twenty years. To get a full pension you would have to make a significant extra contribution to account for the remaining 5 years times two (plus interest?)


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