Do Gardai have the right to stop and read through your phone?

ericd1

I've been stopped once or twice for random search's on the way home from a night out and the last time i was stopped the detective garda took my phone off me and read through all my messages one by one, there was alot of personal messages on it from my girlfriend and i felt humiliated with the garda sniggering at my messages, I told the garda that it was invasion of privacy but they said there allowed to do it if they have reason to suspect something so i just went along in fear of getting arrested for a public order if i made a big deal about them going through my phone, could somebody please tell me if they are allowed to do this?

sparrowcar

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055203557

:pac::pac:

MagicSean

If you have been searched legally and they believe there is evidence in relation to a crime then yes.

jonsnow

MagicSean wrote: »

If you have been searched legally and they believe there is evidence in relation to a crime then yes.

Under what Statutes?

MagicSean

jonsnow wrote: »

Under what Statutes?

Every power of search comes with a parallel power to seize any item that is believed to be evidence in relation to a crime. In addition, the criminal justice act allows for an item to be seized if it is believed to be evidence in relation to any crime. An item that has been seized can be examined.

biko

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=70299089
mentions
http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/2006/en/act/pub/0026/sec0007.html

jonsnow

MagicSean wrote: »

Every power of search comes with a parallel power to seize any item that is believed to be evidence in relation to a crime. In addition, the criminal law act allows for an item to be seized if it is believed to be evidence in relation to any crime. An item that has been seized can be examined.

Could you give me a specific example.ie if some guy was walking down the road and you thought he looked suspicious under what act would you stop and search him and then his phone.

Thanks Biko.You put up the statute as I was typing

MagicSean

biko wrote: »

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=70299089
mentions
http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/2006/en/act/pub/0026/sec0007.html

Oops, mixed up the justice act with the law act. My bad.

jonsnow wrote: »

Could you give me a specific example.ie if some guy was walking down the road and you thought he looked suspicious under what act would you stop and search him and then his phone.

Thanks Biko.You put up the statute as I was typing

Depends on what reason you had to think he was suspicios. The most common are misuse of drugs, firearms and offensive weapons, offences against the state.

MagicSean

the branch in the republic have done and regularly do approach known republicans and take their phones from them ...

we live in a police state and we are controlled and monitored in everything we do ..

even here .. so say hello to the Secret Police!

What makes you think we can afford a secret police?

forex

I guess Gardai can ask you to show your phone, and this is a your choice to give it or not. He can't force you to do so. However you can ask him to explain your rights and reasons to do so, better if you have a weetness next to you.

In the same time, I see no reason to worry about this check if you have nothing to hide. If you look simillar to the person they are looking for , you better help Gardai and don't make things complex.

Like one time I was taken by police only because I looked simmilar to a thieve, hopefully it did not take to long before the victim arrive to see me.

Triangla

As a law abiding citizen I'd be pretty pi$$ed off if a Garda demanded to see my phone and went through it at the side of the road.

Surely 'I find you suspicious' is a bit light to go through your private correspondence. Would they not have to elaborate as to exactly why they are suspicious of you?

Edit: I just read statute stating 'reasonable grounds'. I'd be looking for these reasonable grounds to be slowly and clearly outlined.

I have nothing to hide on my phone legally but have personal messages, emails, photos that frankly are no ones business but my own and I wouldn't like to see a complete stranger go through them for no reason. Garda or not. Hence I have screenlock activated in case it's lost/stolen.

What is the law surrounding provision of password/pin unlock code?

Tigger

i donno how i feel but i was stopped a while ago and the wanted to see my phone i said why he said to see if you were calling or messaging certain people and i showed him my recent calls and texts he was happy and went away

if they didn't give me a reason i'd be in a different mind

Finnbar01

forex wrote: »

I guess Gardai can ask you to show your phone, and this is a your choice to give it or not. He can't force you to do so. However you can ask him to explain your rights and reasons to do so, better if you have a weetness next to you.

In the same time, I see no reason to worry about this check if you have nothing to hide. If you look simillar to the person they are looking for , you better help Gardai and don't make things complex.

Like one time I was taken by police only because I looked simmilar to a thieve, hopefully it did not take to long before the victim arrive to see me.

But he had something to hide, his private personal messages, emails, photos etc.

jimmynokia

If a guard asked me could he/she look at my phone i would seriously tell him/her to fcuk off thats invasion of privacy simple as.
IT has a security lock on it and i would say work it out yourself,and give us a look at yours while your figuring that out,see how they like it...

DrGreenthumb

Jaylee Narrow Back wrote: »

Security lock Ive been asked to unlock phones before and said no.

very true or if you do not have this feature turn your phone off as soon as you take it out of your pocket, they have no right to go through your personal info without a warrent

charlemont

My phone is always locked and I always delete my texts and call registry as I wouldn't want the Guards to know anything that's not of their business.

bedirect

they can seize it on suspicion its evidence, criminal justice act 2006, then you might get it back in a few months if ever, looking at messages and giving it back, no real harm

Turner

bedirect wrote: »

they can seize it on suspicion its evidence, criminal justice act 2006, then you might get it back in a few months if ever, looking at messages and giving it back, no real harm

Only if its in relation to an arrestable offence...

ie. One that you can get 5 years or more in jail.

Drink driving no
small amount of drugs no
dangerous driving no
theft of a mars bar yes

and so on and so on.

ResearchWill

charlemont wrote: »

My phone is always locked and I always delete my texts and call registry as I wouldn't want the Guards to know anything that's not of their business.

Hope you use an old or a basic phone, otherwise that won't work, with smart phones which are like computers they will use Encase which is pretty good at finding deleted stuff.

charlemont

ResearchWill wrote: »

Hope you use an old or a basic phone, otherwise that won't work, with smart phones which are like computers they will use Encase which is pretty good at finding deleted stuff.

Its a fairly basic phone alright, Nothing major on it anyway, Bar my Hash habit I'm as clean as a whistle !! But thanks for the advice...

axiom

got stopped and searched before (drugs search) about 2 or 3 years back, 2 guards and one starts trawling through my phone, I asked him what section that was covered in and he basically said "we can do it here or down the station" .... had no bothers, was more curious, had absolutely nothing to hide, all he's gonna find is a few lovey dovey texts to the gf, just hate the way they treat you even when asking basic info

washman3

This was nothing more than an ego trip for this a##hole.
Report him immediately to a Superintendent, demand an explanation.
Dismiss most of the bull from some posters regarding law and statues.
This is unwarranted harassment.
If he did find any messages on your mobile, just say regarding a drug deal, there is no way it would stand up as evidence in any court in the land.
The people this clown is trying to catch are light years ahead, they simply have a second mobile well hidden. They would just tell him to go fcuk himself anyway. CLOWN.:mad:

MagicSean

washman3 wrote: »

This was nothing more than an ego trip for this a##hole.
Report him immediately to a Superintendent, demand an explanation.
Dismiss most of the bull from some posters regarding law and statues.
This is unwarranted harassment.
If he did find any messages on your mobile, just say regarding a drug deal, there is no way it would stand up as evidence in any court in the land.
The people this clown is trying to catch are light years ahead, they simply have a second mobile well hidden. They would just tell him to go fcuk himself anyway. CLOWN.:mad:

There is so much wrong with this post in so many ways.

For those of you that intend on telling the Garda to go **** himself you should be aware of one or two things. In certain cases you can be committing an offence by not providing the pin or password. In a case where it is not an offence you may be looking at the loss of your phone for months while it is examined. The pin will be broken and the history will be retrieved. It's not difficult. If you have nothing incriminating on it you are better to hand it over and let the Garda look through it. You will most likely get it back then and there and if you feel agrieved you can complain to the Ombudsman about the Garda in relation to abuse of power or breach of privacy.

In the real world no Garda will engage in a legal discussion with you on the side of the road. If a Garda directs you to do something and you refuse to comply you will often be arrested and/or prosecuted. Unless you are well versed in criminal statute and common law you most likely will not understand the law as much as the Garda does. The best thing to do is to comply with the direction and inform him you are doing it under protest. Afterwards you can make a complaint to the Ombudsman or bring a civil case if you feel your rights have been violated in some way. If the Garda was incorrect he will face discipline. If you were incorrect the most you will be is out of pocket.

Zambia

charlemont wrote: »

My phone is always locked and I always delete my texts and call registry as I wouldn't want the Guards to know anything that's not of their business.

Wow thats some self imposed sentence you have taken on.

MagicSean

Jaylee Narrow Back wrote: »

What do you think this is, the soviet union? There are plenty of encrypted apps the gards or even the FBI for that matter won't get into if you don't want them to.

What is your point exactly? I don't see how your comment about the soviet union relates to the bit you highlighted in bold.

amandaf675

As far as im aware if you have a pin code or phone lock code they will need a warrent to get you to give it to them! its the same as a car search, if you have the glove box or boot locked they need a warrent to get you to unlock them! i know this because it happened to me but my boot was broken and wouldnt open but they didnt believe me!

MagicSean

amandaf675 wrote: »

As far as im aware if you have a pin code or phone lock code they will need a warrent to get you to give it to them! its the same as a car search, if you have the glove box or boot locked they need a warrent to get you to unlock them! i know this because it happened to me but my boot was broken and wouldnt open but they didnt believe me!

If a Garda has a power to search you then he also has a power to seize anything of evidential value in your posession. It does not have to be related to the reason for your search. If you are searched under the drugs act and they find a knife they can still seize it. If there is something they believe has evidential value in relation to a crime it can be seized and kept until it has been completely examined. So you are not obliged to give the pin but it would probably be in your best interests to do so if you want the item back.

MagicSean

Jaylee Narrow Back wrote: »

My point was what makes you think they should be allowed to go through phones as they please. You said yourself in a post you are not obliged to give them the pin/codes so why should you? Its not really relevant if its incriminating or not. Its my phone and if I don't feel like giving you the pin I am going to stand by that. Any gard that asks me for a pin can go and whistle.

If they really want to get into your phone they will. If there's nothing in it it is in your own interest to speed up the process by giving the pin.

I never said they should be allowed go through phones as they please.

Pkiernan

Man - you roll over easy.

There's a good boy.

MagicSean

Pkiernan wrote: »

Man - you roll over easy.

There's a good boy.

Is there supposed to be some pride in being difficult for the hell of it?

FreudianSlippers

Man, there is some serious paranoia in this thread.

If the Gardaí want to read my texts, sure let them... lets see what's on my phone now: texts to my girlfriend about buying vodka in Superqunn or O'Briens (RIVETING!), a few texts to co-workers about meeting for coffee (INCRIMINATING!), a very nice conversation with my mother about my parents' 30th wedding anniversary (SCANDALOUS!) and a text from UPC telling my my bill is due (DUN DUN DUNNNN).


Seriously, what kind of things are you people texting about that you're afraid for a Garda to see!? "Good thing we cooked all that meth last night and gave it out to kids at the local primary school!"

0O7

depends... the can seize / examine anything which tehy believe is evidence to an arrestable offence....


Section 7 Criminal Jutice Act 2006 allows this....
http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/2006/en/act/pub/0026/sec0007.html

Statistician

Best thing to do under questionable circumstances is call your solicitor for advise, on your mobile phone.

Would certainly not trust the guards.

Statistician

FreudianSlippers wrote: »

Man, there is some serious paranoia in this thread.

If the Gardaí want to read my texts, sure let them... lets see what's on my phone now: texts to my girlfriend about buying vodka in Superqunn or O'Briens (RIVETING!), a few texts to co-workers about meeting for coffee (INCRIMINATING!), a very nice conversation with my mother about my parents' 30th wedding anniversary (SCANDALOUS!) and a text from UPC telling my my bill is due (DUN DUN DUNNNN).

Where do you draw the line? Would you allow people to see your medical records? Am I allowed to watch you take a shower. And video it. And put it on the internet?
Do you not value privacy or civil liberties at all?

0O7

Statistician wrote: »

Best thing to do under questionable circumstances is call your solicitor for advise, on your mobile phone.

Would certainly not trust the guards.

i think if they are taking your phone you dont get a choice to use it 1st... i think its taken right then for obvious reasons...

FreudianSlippers

Statistician wrote: »

Where do you draw the line? Would you allow people to see your medical records? Am I allowed to watch you take a shower. And video it. And put it on the internet?
Do you not value privacy or civil liberties at all?

Total apples and oranges comparison. The people spouting on about "civil liberties" are usually the ones who understand the concept the least.

Statistician

FreudianSlippers wrote: »

Total apples and oranges comparison. The people spouting on about "civil liberties" are usually the ones who understand the concept the least.

Explain how it is a 'total apples and oranges' comparison.

Someone that believes the two examples are completely unconnected probably understands little about civil liberties.

MagicSean

Statistician wrote: »

Explain how it is a 'total apples and oranges' comparison.

Someone that believes the two examples are completely unconnected probably understands little about civil liberties.

If you cant see a difference between a Garda using a lwaful power or requesting with a valid reason to look through someones phone and a stranger videoing someone without their knowledge and posting it on the internet then it's unlikely anyone here will have the ability or patience to explain it to you.

Statistician

MagicSean wrote: »

If you cant see a difference between a Garda using a lwaful power or requesting with a valid reason to look through someones phone and a stranger videoing someone without their knowledge and posting it on the internet then it's unlikely anyone here will have the ability or patience to explain it to you.

'Lawful power' and 'valid reason'
These are the important terms you have used.

If an action is lawful in a certain jurisdiction, it does not automatically mean that it does not contravene civil liberties. If someone's right to privacy is being infringed, then this is an invasion of civil liberties.

Throughout history we see where people's rights are legally being infringed. Slavery was once legal, for example. This is at the other end of the scale, but it is still contravening civil liberties, just the same as the privacy example cited by the OP.

Ash.J.Williams

Never put your dealers number under their name

Dial Hard

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121316283#Comment_121316283

It was 12 years ago, dude. I'd say they're over it now.